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Beginners guide to IC smacktalk.

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James Lyrus Lyrus Associates	Posted - 2008.05.20 20:55:00 - [1] Edited by: James Lyrus on 20/05/2008 20:56:27 Well, with the upcoming factional warfare, and as a Caldari forum troll of long standing, I thought I would put together a guide to smacktalk, in character. Bearing in mind that you do not necessarily hate the person behind the character, I thought it might be useful to offer some suggestions as to ways in which you might trashtalk your opponents, whilst keeping it firmly behind that IC/OC divide. Gallente should be referred to as gender confused hairdressers. This is in reference to their libertarian and hedonistic lifestyles, and the very definitely 'pretty boy' styling of their ships. (and lets not even get into the Thorax). And of course, the fact that they are far more likely to dock up for a manicure, or to 'do their hair' than they are to pit their Blaster Ballet, up against the furious missile mambo. Avoid the word '***' or obvious allusions to sexual preferences. Not least because that can be construed as an out of character insult, but also because it makes you look like a 12 year old, tittering over 'naughty words'. Quality smack is important. Minmatar should be referred to as 'flying monkeys' in reference to their primitive nature, and their propensity for flying ships that are small, annoying, and generally a bit of a nuisance in large numbers. This is also a reference to their propensity for snapping bits off your ship, and using them to build tempests, much like in safari parks of old. (To my knowledge, no Tempests have ever been completed in a Safari park. When the junk pile gets too large, it gets sold for scrap unfinished) Amarrian pilots, you may hear referred to as 'peanuts' for them being bald religious nutters, that some people are allergic to, God botherers, or arrogant swine unable to think for themselves, without an emperor pushing their buttons. As a right thinking Caldari pilot, this should be discouraged. They are, after all, on our side. Reference to them as 'ard blokes laying down the tachyon tango is appropriate. You may hear Caldari pilots referred as 'boring ex-gallente who'd rather spend an evening with a spreadsheet, than having sex'. There is a spiteful rumour that we are facist money grubbers, who'd sell our parents for a spare Bloodclaw missile. This is incorrect. It'd be at least two. Caldari ships you may hear referred to as 'ugly bricks, that couldn't hit a starbase if it flew in front of their launchers'. This too, is incorrect. Our ships are functional, and elegant. They are weapons, as much as the pilots who fly them, and look manly enough to be parked next to a bikers club, without shame. Anyone making such allusions should be corrected. Verbally ideally - we are not, after all, facists - but if the situation presents a few volleys of torpedos can prove most educational in correct manners. There is of course, room for additional areas of development in racial biasing and hatred, and any opportunity should of course, be jumped upon. It remains important though, whenever participating in the in character chat, that you make it clear that it's their character you're aiming at, not the player. -- Crane needs more grid 249km locking?
Kaganis Warmonkey Caldari Lyrus Associates	Posted - 2008.05.20 21:15:00 - [2] Originally by: James Lyrus as a Caldari forum troll of long standing He finally admits it!!!
Reyold Bengali Caldari Unethical Heroes	Posted - 2008.05.20 21:26:00 - [3] Originally by: James Lyrus Gallente should be referred to as gender confused hairdressers. So, would calling a Gallente opponent a "snail eating surrender-monkey" be considered IC or OC? ------- Never argue with an idiot. They'll drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.
Benco97 Gallente	Posted - 2008.05.20 21:26:00 - [4] Originally by: Reyold Bengali So, would calling a Gallente opponent a "snail eating surrender-monkey" be considered IC or OC? In my opinion that's bordering on OOC Originally by: Kirjava This man speaks the truth, when he farts we count the length in seconds and make squillions buying winning lottery tickets.
Bronson Hughes The. Conspiracy	Posted - 2008.05.20 21:31:00 - [5] Originally by: James Lyrus Caldari ships you may hear referred to as '[ships] that couldn't hit a starbase if it flew in front of [them]' Technically, the Gallente already have that market cornered.... -------------------- "I am hard pressed on my right; my centre is giving way; situation excellent; I am attacking." - Ferdinand Foch at the Battle of the Marne
Gaia Stormrider	Posted - 2008.05.20 21:44:00 - [6] Originally by: James Lyrus you may hear referred to as 'peanuts' for them being bald religious nutters, that some people are allergic to, God botherers, or arrogant swine unable to think for themselves, without an emperor pushing their buttons. I am agrieved. I am not bald!
Tzar'rim	Posted - 2008.05.20 21:49:00 - [7] Gallente
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates	Posted - 2008.05.20 21:56:00 - [8] Originally by: Gaia Stormrider Originally by: James Lyrus you may hear referred to as 'peanuts' for them being bald religious nutters, that some people are allergic to, God botherers, or arrogant swine unable to think for themselves, without an emperor pushing their buttons. I am agrieved. I am not bald! ITS A WIG! -- Crane needs more grid 249km locking?
cyberdog Anoint Anarchy.	Posted - 2008.05.20 22:30:00 - [9] Aslong as you don't support the Minmatar it's fine by me. The second you do i'll come and shoot you in the face with my lasers. P.s. Filthy Caldari carebear.
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates	Posted - 2008.05.21 17:53:00 - [10] Originally by: cyberdog Aslong as you don't support the Minmatar it's fine by me. The second you do i'll come and shoot you in the face with my lasers. P.s. Filthy Caldari carebear. See, there is truth in the rumour that they're all bald :) -- Crane needs more grid 249km locking?
Nyphur Pillowsoft	Posted - 2008.05.21 17:58:00 - [11] Unfortunately, when most people try to roleplay, they end up coming off with the exact same overused phrases. Once FW hits, we'll be swamped with scum - Exclaimations of "Caldari scum!" to the left, rebuttals of "Gallente scum!" to the right and local channel the unfortunate vessel for the whole discussion. I just wish people could be a bit more creative than calling their enemies scum. It can't be THAT hard. Eve-Tanking.com - We're sorry, something happened.
Stakhanov Metafarmers	Posted - 2008.05.21 19:57:00 - [12] \| \| \| V
Alfred Spangler Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2008.05.21 20:06:00 - [13] I lol'd. Well written, thanks. I will refers to it as much as possible Greetz, A.S. . Need a sig? Mail me ingame.
JamnOne	Posted - 2008.05.21 20:14:00 - [14] Edited by: JamnOne on 21/05/2008 20:14:42 Originally by: Nyphur Unfortunately, when most people try to roleplay, they end up coming off with the exact same overused phrases. Once FW hits, we'll be swamped with scum - Exclaimations of "Caldari scum!" to the left, rebuttals of "Gallente scum!" to the right and local channel the unfortunate vessel for the whole discussion. I just wish people could be a bit more creative than calling their enemies scum. It can't be THAT hard. It is only because of the Minmatar. Since they are such simple people only good for slavery we have to keep terms really simple for them. If we use big words then they get lost. Being a good slave owner we try to teach them, but after a while you get tired of trying and resort back to simple words and phrases. ________________________ Originally by: CCP Wrangler So, it's all my fault. Originally by: CCP Prism X Hah! Vengeance is sweet!
Woodwraith Prophets Of a Damned Universe	Posted - 2008.05.21 20:50:00 - [15] the phrase 'empty 40 oz. bottle to the head springs to mind' and james, dont kid yourself, you guys are flying the Toyota Prius' of New Eden, and if your gonna park it in front of a bar, it'd better be one of those ones with an obscurly suggestive name, and i think you know what i mean... /nods
Rodj Blake PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris	Posted - 2008.05.21 20:58:00 - [16] Other appropriate words with which to address a Minmatar include worm, dog and bongo-boy. Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.

CCP Eris Discordia	Posted - 2008.05.21 21:01:00 - [17] I approve of this message and witty insults to all races, but the jove are the eewest of us all. They look..slimey Pink Dread has been hijacked

Xathytoz Roswell Project Victimz	Posted - 2008.05.23 10:10:00 - [18] Edited by: Xathytoz on 23/05/2008 10:19:09 Originally by: James Lyrus Edited by: James Lyrus on 20/05/2008 20:56:27 Gallente should be referred to as gender confused hairdressers. This is in reference to their libertarian and hedonistic lifestyles, and the very definitely 'pretty boy' styling of their ships. (and lets not even get into the Thorax). And of course, the fact that they are far more likely to dock up for a manicure, or to 'do their hair' than they are to pit their Blaster Ballet, up against the furious missile mambo. Ah, luckily being part of the Federation doesn't mean being Gallente. =) I mean, hell, we Intaki are proud poeple, we don't even cut our hair (or finger nails...) until we can use the lower end as a butt pillow. :) Also we are famous for being opportunistic. (What would Mordu's Legion be without us Rock'n'Roll-Ninja backstabbers? ^^) Originally by: CCP Eris Discordia I approve of this message and witty insults to all races, but the jove are the eewest of us all. They look..slimey Yeah, but at least they gave the square-chins (Civire) the pod-technolgy. And the best lightshow still is a Caldaripod acting like pot... going up in smoke 'n' flames. xD
Drizit	Posted - 2008.05.23 10:30:00 - [19] Most of the smack I see these days is confined to one word responses. Noob and griefer are the normal responses. BTW: I'm not bald, I'm folically challenged. You must learn to be politically correct these days if you want to avoid a law suit. -- Freighters need a tank
Andrea Tesla Crazy Clone Warriors of Disaster Hereticus Aegis Communis	Posted - 2008.05.23 10:34:00 - [20] Gall-ente translates very nicely vor me... "Gall" being another word for bile, which everyone knows to be foul tasting poisonous. "ente" is the german word for "Duck" ... a type of bird known to ruthlessly invest poor innocent lakes. As Gallente tend to be vuln to thermal damage, my favorite type of dish is "ger÷stete Ente" (fried duck) AT
Frug Repo Industries R.E.P.O.	Posted - 2008.05.23 10:40:00 - [21] The op is actually pretty gold. Especially for something IC in eve. - - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - - If you think I'm awesome, say BOOO BOOO!! - Ductoris Neat look what I found - Kreul Hey, my marbles
Saipil	Posted - 2008.05.23 10:55:00 - [22] Originally by: Nyphur Unfortunately, when most people try to roleplay, they end up coming off with the exact same overused phrases. Once FW hits, we'll be swamped with scum - Exclaimations of "Caldari scum!" to the left, rebuttals of "Gallente scum!" to the right and local channel the unfortunate vessel for the whole discussion. I just wish people could be a bit more creative than calling their enemies scum. It can't be THAT hard. What's wrong with "Caldari scum"? It might be overused but that doesn't make it any less true. Question to the OP: did you use to troll the market forums or was that another troll trolling there?
Karanth Eve's Brothers of Destiny FOUNDATI0N	Posted - 2008.05.23 11:02:00 - [23] Pretty sure that was a different troll.
Memnoch Ares Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2008.05.23 11:28:00 - [24] Edited by: Memnoch Ares on 23/05/2008 11:28:31 What about the female characters? Noone wants to talk about them cause they all look like dirty prostitutes or prisoners. Especially ones with those dark veins. [ 2008.04.14 03:27:38 ] Luna HI > well thats freaking great [ 2008.04.14 03:29:36 ] Memnoch Ares > sweet. was freaking great for me too
b1zz	Posted - 2008.05.23 11:34:00 - [25] Originally by: James Lyrus Minmatar should be referred to as 'flying monkeys' in reference to their primitive nature, Better not use the word 'monkey', the Minnies might accuse the Amarr of racism throwing them into a hissy fit of indignation the result of which being they refuse to 'tour' minmatar space ever again! And why the hell is Andrew Simons playing cricket for Australia when he should be taking down Amarr Battle Cruisers with his "Malkuth' Cricket Bat Launcher? Andrew Simons is a Minmatar if I ever saw one! Please note: none of the above will make sense if you're American...or Swedish...or German or...from a place that is not a member of the Commonwealth of countries which formed from what was once the British Empire a product of the dominance of British naval dominance from the 17th century to the 19th century...A.D. I would just call the Caldari 'The Faceless', because you never get close enough to the pansy missile throwers to see what they look like.
CrestoftheStars Recreation Of The World	Posted - 2008.05.23 11:54:00 - [26] Originally by: Reyold Bengali Originally by: James Lyrus Gallente should be referred to as gender confused hairdressers. So, would calling a Gallente opponent a "snail eating surrender-monkey" be considered IC or OC? drop the monkey since it is used to refer to black or middle east people in some situations and can be claimed as racial, use something else like "donkey" or whatever and then it is good. i still don't see the difference though either smack is ALLOWED or it is DISALLOWED, which words you use shouldn't even be considered since the things you find offensive is very different from culture and person. ___________________________________________ Whoever appeals to the law against his fellow man is either a fool or a coward. Whoever cannot take care of himself without that law is both. For a wounded
CrestoftheStars Recreation Of The World	Posted - 2008.05.23 11:56:00 - [27] Originally by: CCP Eris Discordia I approve of this message and witty insults to all races, but the jove are the eewest of us all. They look..slimey hehe not to push you but i bet you don't have the balls to say it to their faces XD jove rules in any case... sigh i miss the good old times where you had a idea that there would be comming a jovian (dev) tumbling though the systems now and then... well hope the joves will show their face again at some point... ___________________________________________ Whoever appeals to the law against his fellow man is either a fool or a coward. Whoever cannot take care of himself without that law is both. For a wounded
Fwaps Continuously	Posted - 2008.05.23 12:05:00 - [28] to the OP...excellent thread As a recent convert to Gallente ships, I can confirm that the goo inside thier pods is in fact hair gel and that their ships handle a lot better when you remove and reprocess the 13 metric tonnes of "for men" moisturisers and other "masculine" cosmetics that come free with every ship.
Dr Slaughter Rabies Inc.	Posted - 2008.05.24 01:34:00 - [29] Originally by: JamnOne It is only because of the Minmatar. Since they are such simple people only good for slavery we have to keep terms really simple for them. If we use big words then they get lost. Being a good slave owner we try to teach them, but after a while you get tired of trying and resort back to simple words and phrases. I wouldn't expect anything less than such a typically denigrating view to spout from an Amarr slaver. Perhaps you should borrow some of your 'servants' books and learn a little of humanism? Somehow though I doubt you or you Caldari brothers, the avaricious detritus of a far more egalitarian society, could be bothered. Rabies is unexpected ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ dealing with the UNDERPANTS of eve since 2004
Tommy TenKreds Animal Mercantile Executive	Posted - 2008.05.24 01:43:00 - [30] While I heartily endorse the rest of your ridicule, this Originally by: James Lyrus Minmatar should be referred to as 'flying monkeys' comparing Minmatar to monkeys could be interpreted as racist, since they are predominantly black skinned characters. This, in turn, may cause real offense if some players do not consider racist attacks to be acceptable even when IC in nature. Just sayin. Bandures > tommy you like a cowboy harry )
Neth'Rae Neth's Workshop	Posted - 2008.05.24 01:46:00 - [31] Originally by: Tommy TenKreds While I heartily endorse the rest of your ridicule, this Originally by: James Lyrus Minmatar should be referred to as 'flying monkeys' comparing Minmatar to monkeys could be interpreted as racist, since they are predominantly black skinned characters. This, in turn, may cause real offense if some players do not consider racist attacks to be acceptable even when IC in nature. Just sayin. I don't think an Amarrian would care, really.. They are racists anyways so :P Request signatures at EVE-GFX
Tommy TenKreds Animal Mercantile Executive	Posted - 2008.05.24 01:51:00 - [32] Edited by: Tommy TenKreds on 24/05/2008 01:53:56 Originally by: Neth'Rae Originally by: Tommy TenKreds While I heartily endorse the rest of your ridicule, this Originally by: James Lyrus Minmatar should be referred to as 'flying monkeys' comparing Minmatar to monkeys could be interpreted as racist, since they are predominantly black skinned characters. This, in turn, may cause real offense if some players do not consider racist attacks to be acceptable even when IC in nature. Just sayin. I don't think an Amarrian would care, really.. They are racists anyways so :P Yeah I don't think my point was clear enough in hindsight. The problem is that "monkeys" as a racist insult is likely to be a little too close to real life for some players to receive it lightly. Of course you have to question the wisdom of CCP creating the enslaved race of peoples in Eve the black people. That's the root of the problem. It could just as well have been the Minmatar that enslaved the Amarr, but it has always been popular to depict black people in positions of subservience, why challenge a stereotype? Bandures > tommy you like a cowboy harry )
Moolti	Posted - 2008.05.24 02:09:00 - [33] /me sighs... all this hate. We're beautiful, we get to have sex, our food is delicious, or cities thriving, and our ideals are worth defending. no wonder the robes (amar) and robots (caldari) despise us, they're all jealous. @)}---^----- The Jove are a warning to us all. We must remember to live and Love and feel. Fall in Love, make Love, be beautful and see the beautiful. For we mustn't loose our human spark
Akiba Penrose PAK	Posted - 2008.05.24 02:21:00 - [34] Originally by: Tommy TenKreds The problem is that "monkeys" as a racist insult is likely to be a little too close to real life for some players to receive it lightly. Are you saying that monkeys are playing EVE and will be offended if we use the term "monkey" about a Minmatar?
Megan Maynard Out of Order	Posted - 2008.05.24 02:22:00 - [35] Keep calling us monkeys...... I like the dark skinned monkeys. And I mean really, how funny is it that the two slowest races are on the same side. Nano 4tw. Miz Stelth Bomerz iz the ****nit.
Tommy TenKreds Animal Mercantile Executive	Posted - 2008.05.24 02:29:00 - [36] Originally by: Akiba Penrose Originally by: Tommy TenKreds The problem is that "monkeys" as a racist insult is likely to be a little too close to real life for some players to receive it lightly. Are you saying that monkeys are playing EVE and will be offended if we use the term "monkey" about a Minmatar? I think you know very well what I said and I hope you understand it. I sympathise with the desire to make light of an issue that invades even our sacred fun areas, bringing to mind the misery of real life bigotry and hatred. But I respectfully hope that people would recognise the danger and avoid using a term like "monkeys" to describe black characters. Bandures > tommy you like a cowboy harry )
Megan Maynard Out of Order	Posted - 2008.05.24 02:37:00 - [37] Biotch, do I LOOK black to you? Next thing "grease monkey" will be a racist term. If you think it's racist, maybe it is maybe it isn't. Who gives a crap? It's just a word, cut the PC bull**. Miz Stelth Bomerz iz the **nit.
Akiba Penrose PAK	Posted - 2008.05.24 02:46:00 - [38] Originally by: Tommy TenKreds But I respectfully hope that people would recognise the danger and avoid using a term like "monkeys" to describe black characters. The term "monkey" is not used to describe minmatar because some of them are black.
Tommy TenKreds Animal Mercantile Executive	Posted - 2008.05.24 02:51:00 - [39] Originally by: Megan Maynard Biotch, do I LOOK black to you? Next thing "grease monkey" will be a racist term. If you think it's racist, maybe it is maybe it isn't. Who gives a crap? It's just a word, cut the PC bull****. Are you aware that black people have been subject to these kind of racist abuses for 500 years in real life? Is it too much to ask that you put aside your own ignorance and immaturity to consider for a moment that the term "monkey" might actually ruin someone's enjoyment of Eve? What does it cost you to be civil and consider the feelings of others? Bandures > tommy you like a cowboy harry )
Megan Maynard Out of Order	Posted - 2008.05.24 02:52:00 - [40] Hey Akiba, why did the drake cross the road? Miz Stelth Bomerz iz the ****nit.
Megan Maynard Out of Order	Posted - 2008.05.24 02:53:00 - [41] Originally by: Tommy TenKreds Originally by: Megan Maynard Biotch, do I LOOK black to you? Next thing "grease monkey" will be a racist term. If you think it's racist, maybe it is maybe it isn't. Who gives a crap? It's just a word, cut the PC bull**. Are you aware that black people have been subject to these kind of racist abuses for 500 years in real life? Is it too much to ask that you put aside your own ignorance and immaturity to consider for a moment that the term "monkey" might actually ruin someone's enjoyment of Eve? What does it cost you to be civil and consider the feelings of others? hahahahah;ahahahah Get a life. Seriously. As a minmatar pilot the term "monkey" made me laugh, and I'll be more then happy to blow you up just for making a fool of yourself. Miz Stelth Bomerz iz the **nit.
Megan Maynard Out of Order	Posted - 2008.05.24 02:56:00 - [42] Originally by: Megan Maynard Hey Akiba, why did the drake cross the road? The pilot got bored and never did, it would have taken 3 hours with an afterburner. Miz Stelth Bomerz iz the ****nit.
Tommy TenKreds Animal Mercantile Executive	Posted - 2008.05.24 02:56:00 - [43] Originally by: Akiba Penrose Originally by: Tommy TenKreds But I respectfully hope that people would recognise the danger and avoid using a term like "monkeys" to describe black characters. The term "monkey" is not used to describe minmatar because some of them are black. That's irrelevant for the reasons I have already explained. It was not my intention to hi-jack this fun thread with a serious issue, but it seems some people cannot simply accept that it may be possible for a term to be inappropriate due to racist connotations and would prefer to argue as if some precious liberty was under threat. I have said my piece and will move on if you allow me. The decision of what you deem appropriate or not is ultimately your own. Bandures > tommy you like a cowboy harry )
Tommy TenKreds Animal Mercantile Executive	Posted - 2008.05.24 02:57:00 - [44] Edited by: Tommy TenKreds on 24/05/2008 03:03:50 Originally by: Megan Maynard Originally by: Tommy TenKreds Originally by: Megan Maynard Biotch, do I LOOK black to you? Next thing "grease monkey" will be a racist term. If you think it's racist, maybe it is maybe it isn't. Who gives a crap? It's just a word, cut the PC bull****. Are you aware that black people have been subject to these kind of racist abuses for 500 years in real life? Is it too much to ask that you put aside your own ignorance and immaturity to consider for a moment that the term "monkey" might actually ruin someone's enjoyment of Eve? What does it cost you to be civil and consider the feelings of others? hahahahah;ahahahah Get a life. Seriously. As a minmatar pilot the term "monkey" made me laugh, and I'll be more then happy to blow you up just for making a fool of yourself. Frankly, you're the fool. It would cost you nothing to be respectful over this issue but you are clearly too immature to see how it might be valid. As for the smack, bring it big jugs. I never fight fair though, or clean. One on one's are for suckers. Bandures > tommy you like a cowboy harry )
Neth'Rae Neth's Workshop	Posted - 2008.05.24 03:03:00 - [45] Do monkeys even exist in New Eden btw? Request signatures at EVE-GFX
Akiba Penrose PAK	Posted - 2008.05.24 03:28:00 - [46] Originally by: Tommy TenKreds It was not my intention to hi-jack this fun thread with a serious issue, but it seems some people cannot simply accept that it may be possible for a term to be inappropriate due to racist connotations and would prefer to argue as if some precious liberty was under threat. I understand what you are saying, and i disagree. And i will not stop refering to minmatar as monkeys, or any other racial slang in eve, because you think the term might be inappropriate. What about calling real monkeys for "monkeys", is that racism also?
Tommy TenKreds Animal Mercantile Executive	Posted - 2008.05.24 03:45:00 - [47] Originally by: Akiba Penrose What about calling real monkeys for "monkeys", is that racism also? No. Monkeys are not people, they are monkeys. So referring to them as monkeys is correct. It is your right to do as you wish. I am disappointed that you have so little regard for the offense you might cause someone, but I expect that is the fault of the education system in your country. Bandures > tommy you like a cowboy harry )
b1zz	Posted - 2008.05.24 04:02:00 - [48] Originally by: Tommy TenKreds Originally by: Akiba Penrose What about calling real monkeys for "monkeys", is that racism also? No. Monkeys are not people, they are monkeys. So referring to them as monkeys is correct. It is your right to do as you wish. I am disappointed that you have so little regard for the offense you might cause someone, but I expect that is the fault of the education system in your country. Tommy, this game is open to every human on the planet so it is likely that any word used will cause deep offense to someone. Peanut, monkey, pretty boy, faceless, snail-eater, baldy, dog, bongo-boy - all banned! Basically what you are saying is no smack-talk allowed. And from there it's a short step to 'do not talk', or 'humour is bad'. Well, at least this thread was funny for the first few posts. That's something at least.
Akiba Penrose PAK	Posted - 2008.05.24 04:30:00 - [49] Originally by: Tommy TenKreds Originally by: Akiba Penrose What about calling real monkeys for "monkeys", is that racism also? No. Monkeys are not people, they are monkeys. So referring to them as monkeys is correct. It is your right to do as you wish. I am disappointed that you have so little regard for the offense you might cause someone, but I expect that is the fault of the education system in your country. To refer to minmatar as monkeys would be rasism with regards to minmatar, and maybe monkeys, and have nothing to do with black people. You are making that connection, and that is racist. "little regard for the offense i might cause someone"? I think you are the one causing offense here. Tbh I think you are the racist.
Xathytoz Roswell Project Victimz	Posted - 2008.05.24 09:14:00 - [50] Edited by: Xathytoz on 24/05/2008 09:25:20 Edited by: Xathytoz on 24/05/2008 09:19:15 Well, first of all, a word on the monkey-minmatar debate. First of all I never have seen a "black" (or Black African-orignated) Minmatar. Some have very pale to white Skin, some more tend to match skin colours with in the Middle East or South-East Asia. Sure, a darker colour and some dreadlocks... wooz. And that's already comparable to African people in RL? Sorry, but making that comparisment is the first mistake. Just check the cultural background, you'll see that Matari have been given a very Germanic/Scandinavian cultural background. I mean, where do you think the name "Hel" is coming from? You may as well consider Matari as West-Goths still holding on to their Germanic traditions. So, at least in my opinion and understanding of historical background & culture, the Matari remind me much more of the Germanic hordes the Roman Empire (Amarr Empire, lot of connections there) wanted but could not completely enslave/integrate into the Empire. So please guys, FIRST read the background/history of the races, then, if you really have to, compare to rl people (which is also a mistake when you wanna avoid out of game offenses). And finally, what's so bad about being called a monkey in general? I think, they only people who'd really should feel ****ed about being called "monkey" would be the Amarians, cuz in (abrhamaic) religions mankind didn't evolve but as created. (And it's no secret the Amarrian culture is inspired by the Roman Empire under Christian influene, so from around 400. A.D. on. (ALL!) Humans are monkeys that've lost their tail, so if you feel offended by that, go get some education. :)
Kis Kecheri	Posted - 2008.05.24 09:40:00 - [51] Edited by: Kis Kecheri on 24/05/2008 09:45:00 Offending people in 'real life' is something I look forward to. Hitting sensitive PC mouthbreathers with collateral damage is just icing on the cake.
Marine HK4861 Radical Technologies	Posted - 2008.05.24 09:51:00 - [52] Originally by: Kis Kecheri Offending people in 'real life' is something I look forward to. Hitting sensitive PCtards is just icing on the cake. Unlike real life, where you're permitted to offend people provided you don't break any laws, offending people in EVE with racist terms is against the EULA and may result in a suspension or a ban. As for the whole 'monkey' debate, let's put it a different way - how would people react if the C-word racist term was used for all the oriental bloodlines?
Bellum Eternus Death of Virtue Sex Panthers	Posted - 2008.05.24 10:20:00 - [53] Originally by: Marine HK4861 Originally by: Kis Kecheri Offending people in 'real life' is something I look forward to. Hitting sensitive PCtards is just icing on the cake. Unlike real life, where you're permitted to offend people provided you don't break any laws, offending people in EVE with racist terms is against the EULA and may result in a suspension or a ban. As for the whole 'monkey' debate, let's put it a different way - how would people react if the C-word racist term was used for all the oriental bloodlines? Yeah, I think I'd be really insulted if I were Japanese and someone referred to me as Chinese. <smirk> I don't think I could handle being called the C-word. Bellum Eternus [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y [gold]Owing to lack of Eve-related content, signature removed. If you would like to discuss this, please mail mods@cc
Marine HK4861 Radical Technologies	Posted - 2008.05.24 10:43:00 - [54] Originally by: Bellum Eternus Yeah, I think I'd be really insulted if I were Japanese and someone referred to me as Chinese. <smirk> I don't think I could handle being called the C-word. I can just imagine what'd happen if you started referring to Chinese people as Japanese in this situation.. There's plenty of racist terms used to refer to orientals, the C-word is just the one I hear thrown at me most often.
Dr Slaughter Rabies Inc.	Posted - 2008.05.24 11:20:00 - [55] Everyone knows we keep our ships held together with tape and wrenches.... monkey wrenches.. It's not like we've evolved from Gordo on his ill fated trip into space aboard, what, a Jupiter AM-13 booster rocket and even if we were it would simply show that evolved squirrel monkeys could kick your ass. Your going to have to better than that to insult us IMHO. Rabies is unexpected ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ dealing with the UNDERPANTS of eve since 2004
Promethian child East Khanid Trading Khanid Trade Syndicate	Posted - 2008.05.24 11:48:00 - [56] Edited by: Promethian child on 24/05/2008 11:50:34 Originally by: Tommy TenKreds Originally by: Akiba Penrose What about calling real monkeys for "monkeys", is that racism also? No. Monkeys are not people, they are monkeys. So referring to them as monkeys is correct. It is your right to do as you wish. I am disappointed that you have so little regard for the offense you might cause someone, but I expect that is the fault of the education system in your country. I think whitey should mind his own affairs (edit this was said by my very black coworker reading the post im rather pale ) hmm flying spacemonkeys how cool would that be
Kransthow Victory Not Vengeance Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2008.05.24 12:24:00 - [57] Edited by: Kransthow on 24/05/2008 12:24:26 Originally by: Tommy TenKreds Originally by: Akiba Penrose Originally by: Tommy TenKreds But I respectfully hope that people would recognise the danger and avoid using a term like "monkeys" to describe black characters. The term "monkey" is not used to describe minmatar because some of them are black. That's irrelevant for the reasons I have already explained. It was not my intention to hi-jack this fun thread with a serious issue, but it seems some people cannot simply accept that it may be possible for a term to be inappropriate due to racist connotations and would prefer to argue as if some precious liberty was under threat. I have said my piece and will move on if you allow me. The decision of what you deem appropriate or not is ultimately your own. sup *****
Tommy TenKreds Animal Mercantile Executive	Posted - 2008.05.24 13:41:00 - [58] Originally by: Kis Kecheri Edited by: Kis Kecheri on 24/05/2008 09:45:00 Offending people in 'real life' is something I look forward to. Hitting sensitive PC mouthbreathers with collateral damage is just icing on the cake. Originally by: Promethian child I think whitey should mind his own affairs (edit this was said by my very black coworker reading the post im rather pale ) Originally by: Kransthow sup ***** You would all have to work a damn sight harder to offend me; I am not the least bit phased by your unimaginative jibes and juvenile responses. It is merely indicative of your utterly self-centered, over-privileged backgrounds that you are unable to engage with a discussion about racist terminology without resorting to insults. Your lack of empathy and respect for others is tragic. This generation considers it iconoclastic to reassert racist terms that our grandparents' generation protested long and hard to defeat. That is very sad indeed. Insult away. You only earn my pity. Bandures > tommy you like a cowboy harry )
Xathytoz Roswell Project Victimz	Posted - 2008.05.24 14:03:00 - [59] Okay, Tommy, EASY! The problem here is taht YOU are already taking it out of game, noone else. Second, may I post a quote of th roleplay news, written bc CCP themselves, where an Amarr deligate descripses the Matari as animals. So stick to the RolePlay, dude. Creating such links is making IC-smack OC-smack. I do not doubt your noble intention, but you're currently creating the problem yourself you want to warn about. Anywas, here the quote and link where it is to be found: Exercise 'Brotherhood' Begins newsitem [...]A source from the Ministry of War commented "This is exactly how I would expect these animals to behave. They have no understanding for common decency or respect for the families still in the process of grieving. It speaks volumes about the mental abilities of a Matari that they would think it is acceptable to associate themselves so closely with the Federation Navy at this time."[...] So, there is racism in game between Amarr towards Matari people, yes. This is in fact an element of the characteristica of that race and its culture. And I know you may not like that, since its a bit like Europeans (and American "caucasions" had to look in the mirror. So stick INGAME and don't even try to link what cannot be linked. Smacktalk aiming for the person and not the char is pityful anyway, the bigger man ignores such idiots.
Furb Killer The Peacekeeper Core	Posted - 2008.05.24 14:13:00 - [60] If people see calling minmatar monkeys as racism, it doesnt matter at all because they will see racism everywhere.
Sitthh	Posted - 2008.05.24 14:19:00 - [61] Geez ppl are sensitive these days. No, monkey isn't racist and if you think it is then YOU are racist. Look in the dictionary...thats what a word means. I hate all this political correctness stuff. If you dont like what someone is saying/typing, ignore it. Now this is why my main is Caldari, we dont care about stupood feelings and such, not like them gallente who cry every time someone doesnt say what they think. Destroy the hippie girlente and crush the minitard plague. Long Live Caldari!!!!!!!!!!!!!!...oh yea Amarr are cool too.
Kis Kecheri	Posted - 2008.05.24 14:23:00 - [62] Edited by: Kis Kecheri on 24/05/2008 14:23:16 Originally by: Tommy TenKreds Originally by: Kis Kecheri Edited by: Kis Kecheri on 24/05/2008 09:45:00 Offending people in 'real life' is something I look forward to. Hitting sensitive PC mouthbreathers with collateral damage is just icing on the cake. Originally by: Promethian child I think whitey should mind his own affairs (edit this was said by my very black coworker reading the post im rather pale ) Originally by: Kransthow sup *** You would all have to work a damn sight harder to offend me; I am not the least bit phased by your unimaginative jibes and juvenile responses. It is merely indicative of your utterly self-centered, over-privileged backgrounds that you are unable to engage with a discussion about racist terminology without resorting to insults. Your lack of empathy and respect for others is tragic. This generation considers it iconoclastic to reassert racist terms that our grandparents' generation protested long and hard to defeat. That is very sad indeed. Insult away. You only earn my pity. Oh, shut up you self-righteous **er. Your attitude is more offensive then Americans who intentionally immigrate to the US then expect free money and priority on jobs/services since they happen share a similar skin tone to people who were actually slaves over one hundred and fifty years ago. I experience more daily abuse and intolerance as a transvestite giving men sexual favors for money to pay for my drug habit then any person of colour has suffered.
Tommy TenKreds Animal Mercantile Executive	Posted - 2008.05.24 14:48:00 - [63] Edited by: Tommy TenKreds on 24/05/2008 14:53:36 Originally by: Kis Kecheri Edited by: Kis Kecheri on 24/05/2008 14:23:16 Originally by: Tommy TenKreds Originally by: Kis Kecheri Edited by: Kis Kecheri on 24/05/2008 09:45:00 Offending people in 'real life' is something I look forward to. Hitting sensitive PC mouthbreathers with collateral damage is just icing on the cake. Originally by: Promethian child I think whitey should mind his own affairs (edit this was said by my very black coworker reading the post im rather pale ) Originally by: Kransthow sup *** You would all have to work a damn sight harder to offend me; I am not the least bit phased by your unimaginative jibes and juvenile responses. It is merely indicative of your utterly self-centered, over-privileged backgrounds that you are unable to engage with a discussion about racist terminology without resorting to insults. Your lack of empathy and respect for others is tragic. This generation considers it iconoclastic to reassert racist terms that our grandparents' generation protested long and hard to defeat. That is very sad indeed. Insult away. You only earn my pity. Oh, shut up you self-righteous **er. Your attitude is more offensive then Americans who intentionally immigrate to the US then expect free money and priority on jobs/services since they happen share a similar skin tone to people who were actually slaves over one hundred and fifty years ago. I experience more daily abuse and intolerance as a transvestite giving men sexual favors for money to pay for my drug habit then any person of colour has suffered. You're not funny and your childish ranting only further illustrates my point and betrays your own inherantly racist attitudes. Grow up! Bandures > tommy you like a cowboy harry )
Tommy TenKreds Animal Mercantile Executive	Posted - 2008.05.24 14:59:00 - [64] Originally by: Sitthh No, monkey isn't racist and if you think it is then YOU are racist. Look in the dictionary...thats what a word means. Monkey is a racist term if you only use it in regard to black people. It has a long history as an abusive term, along with "jungle bunny", "nig nog", "coon" and many similar terms. Originally by: Sitthh I hate all this political correctness stuff. Perhaps that's because you don't understand what racism is. Originally by: Sitthh If you dont like what someone is saying/typing, ignore it. I prefer to challenge ignorance, thanks. Bandures > tommy you like a cowboy harry )
Fredior Khan'Sebies Mikramurka Solace	Posted - 2008.05.24 15:46:00 - [65] Edited by: Fredior Khan''Sebies on 24/05/2008 15:48:05 My apologies James, this is not aimed at you but rather a couple of the other posters here who have defended using a term that others objected to, despite the objections. Some says, "Stop, that hurts." You continue to do it, how is that defensible? We have slaver hounds, we have fedos, cattle, hanging long-limbs, we have other Eve-specific animal names to assign to Minmatar. Or we can just use "animals." Why do we have to utilize a term of an animal to which I can't recall one reference in the backstory, especially if it is something that is typically banished from real life public discussions on identity? I personally don't think that it's just that the Brutor are mostly African in appearance, but that the term in general is used as race-baiting in the language we are using to communicate here. It's not "ban the term monkey." It's "ban the term monkey when it simply doesn't fit the backstory and is objected to and isn't being used to describe a primate with a tail in any event." If we happened to be discussing, for example, tamarins or marmosets or lemurs or spider monkeys, then it would be appropriate to use the term. But we aren't. We can be more creative than that, can't we? Edit: confused tapirs with tamarins
Akiba Penrose PAK	Posted - 2008.05.24 16:05:00 - [66] Originally by: Fredior Khan'Sebies Some says, "Stop, that hurts." You continue to do it, how is that defensible? Noone here have said that,, It is Tommy that thinks the word monkey might be inappropriate due to racist connotations. Originally by: Fredior Khan'Sebies Why do we have to utilize a term of an animal to which I can't recall one reference in the backstory, especially if it is something that is typically banished from real life public discussions on identity? Because it fits how an Amarr would describe a Minmatar. Originally by: Fredior Khan'Sebies Ban the term monkey when it simply doesn't fit the backstory and is objected to and isn't being used to describe a primate with a tail in any event. Good luck with that.
Darineah Charach Antares Fleet Yards SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2008.05.24 16:26:00 - [67] Edited by: Darineah Charach on 24/05/2008 16:26:58 Tommy, i think you're getting your racial terminology mixed up. The term monkey was not derived from the colour of a persons skin. Other terms you've mentioned were but monkey derived from a belief that the persons it was referred to were sub human, closer to the apes than humanity. It was used to describe Asians in historic times as well as people of African descent. Also used in relation to Middle Eastern people. In the context of the game the Amarrians believe the Minmatar to be sub human, so the term monkey from a RP perspective fits. Sebeistor for example are monkeys simply because they are Minmatar, and they have the worst net tans. Essentially i think this is the point most of the objectors have tried to put forward, although i'll agree they perhaps could have been more diplomatic about it :p EDIT: now lets get back on track and onto the funny stuff. ------- Boxing Kangaroo
Fredior Khan'Sebies Mikramurka Solace	Posted - 2008.05.24 16:26:00 - [68] Originally by: Akiba Penrose Originally by: Fredior Khan'Sebies Some says, "Stop, that hurts." You continue to do it, how is that defensible? Noone here have said that,, It is Tommy that thinks the word monkey might be inappropriate due to racist connotations. Originally by: Fredior Khan'Sebies Why do we have to utilize a term of an animal to which I can't recall one reference in the backstory, especially if it is something that is typically banished from real life public discussions on identity? Because it fits how an Amarr would describe a Minmatar. Originally by: Fredior Khan'Sebies Ban the term monkey when it simply doesn't fit the backstory and is objected to and isn't being used to describe a primate with a tail in any event. Good luck with that. First off, I believe that Tommy made the point that the term is offensive and does hurt people. That is well documented by various protests over the use of the word in public discourse by those offended by it. If it has racist connotations, its usage should be confined to where it is obviously not used in racist ways. Bringing real world hate speech into a game simply isn't conducive to a good environment. Second point I was trying to make was that there is no basis for saying that Amarrians would use this term. There are other terms that are much more likely to be used. Fedo is one in particular that stands out. Although there are many examples of non-human life in the Chronicles and other elements of the setting, monkeys have not, to my knowledge, been carried over to New Eden. So I contest that Amarrians would use "monkey" to describe Minmatar. Third point is that people can agree that there are lines that should not be crossed, and bringing real life pejorative phrases such as this are among them. There is a difference between real world and in game smack, and we should be careful to use language that reflects this.
Tommy TenKreds Animal Mercantile Executive	Posted - 2008.05.24 16:27:00 - [69] Originally by: Akiba Penrose Originally by: Fredior Khan'Sebies Why do we have to utilize a term of an animal to which I can't recall one reference in the backstory, especially if it is something that is typically banished from real life public discussions on identity? Because it fits how an Amarr would describe a Minmatar. Sadly that is down to the clumsy way that Eve fiction mirrors real life history. Like I said, it would have been just as credible for the black 'race' in Eve to have enslaved a white 'race', for the black race to have been the more technologically advanced. The choice to mirror real world history in this way was very unimaginative and failed to anticipate the moral difficulties of role-playing racism in such a precisely reflective fiction. This issue practically disappears when the 'races' in question are elves, dwarves and trolls, because players do not identify so closely with pretend hominid species. Originally by: Akiba Penrose Originally by: Fredior Khan'Sebies Ban the term monkey when it simply doesn't fit the backstory and is objected to and isn't being used to describe a primate with a tail in any event. Good luck with that. I don't support banning anything in this way. It would be unenforceable. I would hope that challenging notions of acceptability and encouraging a more imaginative approach to roleplaying racial tensions than merely adopting real world characterisations would be sufficient. Bandures > tommy you like a cowboy harry )
Darineah Charach Antares Fleet Yards SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2008.05.24 16:31:00 - [70] Originally by: Fredior Khan'Sebies Originally by: Akiba Penrose Originally by: Fredior Khan'Sebies Some says, "Stop, that hurts." You continue to do it, how is that defensible? Noone here have said that,, It is Tommy that thinks the word monkey might be inappropriate due to racist connotations. Originally by: Fredior Khan'Sebies Why do we have to utilize a term of an animal to which I can't recall one reference in the backstory, especially if it is something that is typically banished from real life public discussions on identity? Because it fits how an Amarr would describe a Minmatar. Originally by: Fredior Khan'Sebies Ban the term monkey when it simply doesn't fit the backstory and is objected to and isn't being used to describe a primate with a tail in any event. Good luck with that. First off, I believe that Tommy made the point that the term is offensive and does hurt people. That is well documented by various protests over the use of the word in public discourse by those offended by it. If it has racist connotations, its usage should be confined to where it is obviously not used in racist ways. Bringing real world hate speech into a game simply isn't conducive to a good environment. Second point I was trying to make was that there is no basis for saying that Amarrians would use this term. There are other terms that are much more likely to be used. Fedo is one in particular that stands out. Although there are many examples of non-human life in the Chronicles and other elements of the setting, monkeys have not, to my knowledge, been carried over to New Eden. So I contest that Amarrians would use "monkey" to describe Minmatar. Third point is that people can agree that there are lines that should not be crossed, and bringing real life pejorative phrases such as this are among them. There is a difference between real world and in game smack, and we should be careful to use language that reflects this. I see your point, but i don't see anyone objecting to the terms 'Minmatard' or 'Snail Eating Surrender Monkeys'. There's a lot of stereotypes being bandied about here, if we're going to differentiate one why not the rest? At the end of the day it's not the word that's offensive but the motive behind it, and the motives here are RP in a game so i find little reason to drag real world politics into it. ------- Boxing Kangaroo
Tommy TenKreds Animal Mercantile Executive	Posted - 2008.05.24 16:34:00 - [71] Originally by: Darineah Charach Tommy, i think you're getting your racial terminology mixed up. The term monkey was not derived from the colour of a persons skin. Other terms you've mentioned were but monkey derived from a belief that the persons it was referred to were sub human, closer to the apes than humanity. It was used to describe Asians in historic times as well as people of African descent. Also used in relation to Middle Eastern people. In the context of the game the Amarrians believe the Minmatar to be sub human, so the term monkey from a RP perspective fits. Sebeistor for example are monkeys simply because they are Minmatar, and they have the worst net tans. Essentially i think this is the point most of the objectors have tried to put forward, although i'll agree they perhaps could have been more diplomatic about it :p EDIT: now lets get back on track and onto the funny stuff. I appreciate your diplomatic presentation of that point. The fact is that this area is fraught with difficulty due to the precise way in which Eve fiction mirrors real world historical racism and exploitation. This is all the more reason for people to be sensitive about using real world abusive terms when they roleplay their racist characters. Bandures > tommy you like a cowboy harry )
Sitthh	Posted - 2008.05.24 16:36:00 - [72] Tommy TenKreds stop crying. You have derailed a good thread with your own racist thoughts. Your like Al Sharpton, you cry about ppl being racist but in reality you are the one who is the racist. You are the one seperating the races with slang words. Again. I tell you to get a dictionary, use some logic, and stop crying. Oh and a second thought, anyone who doesnt want to fight for their freedom doesn't deserve freedom.
Arvald The School 0f Fine Arts	Posted - 2008.05.24 16:37:00 - [73] Originally by: Stakhanov \| \| \| V Originally by: Liang Nuren There are no dangerous ships, there are dangerous people. IIRC, you are one of them.
Tommy TenKreds Animal Mercantile Executive	Posted - 2008.05.24 16:41:00 - [74] Originally by: Darineah Charach At the end of the day it's not the word that's offensive but the motive behind it, and the motives here are RP in a game so i find little reason to drag real world politics into it. You are right, of course. Eve is a game and most people using racist (or otherwise abusive) terms towards others do so in good fun, in character, without malicious intent. However, it would be to their great credit to behave responsibly by not employing terms that may possibly cause real offense to others due to their real world usage. I do accept that this view point is becoming increasingly unpopular as growing parts of western society become disassociated from 'outdated' issues of social justice. All the more reason to point it out wherever necessary in my opionion. Bandures > tommy you like a cowboy harry )
Furb Killer The Peacekeeper Core	Posted - 2008.05.24 16:44:00 - [75] I got an even better idea. If someone is offended by someone who calls someones character a monkey in an online game because he is the enemy, it might have some positive effects. Offend them often enough with these kind of things and they might actually stop caring about it and get a life.
Tommy TenKreds Animal Mercantile Executive	Posted - 2008.05.24 16:47:00 - [76] Originally by: Sitthh Tommy TenKreds stop crying. You have derailed a good thread with your own racist thoughts. Your like Al Sharpton, you cry about ppl being racist but in reality you are the one who is the racist. You are the one seperating the races with slang words. Again. I tell you to get a dictionary, use some logic, and stop crying. Oh and a second thought, anyone who doesnt want to fight for their freedom doesn't deserve freedom. You clearly have no idea what logic is. You just made at least three illogical assertions and added two straw-man arguments for good measure. Bandures > tommy you like a cowboy harry )
Sitthh	Posted - 2008.05.24 16:50:00 - [77] Originally by: Tommy TenKreds Originally by: Sitthh Tommy TenKreds stop crying. You have derailed a good thread with your own racist thoughts. Your like Al Sharpton, you cry about ppl being racist but in reality you are the one who is the racist. You are the one seperating the races with slang words. Again. I tell you to get a dictionary, use some logic, and stop crying. Oh and a second thought, anyone who doesnt want to fight for their freedom doesn't deserve freedom. You clearly have no idea what logic is. You just made at least three illogical assertions and added two straw-man arguments for good measure. ...cool so I win the a argument, awsome. Now leave this forum plz.
Quelque Chose New Eden Roller Disco Supply	Posted - 2008.05.24 16:55:00 - [78] A quick list of not real- world- related slurs for minmatar: - Coneheads or simply "cones" (self explanatory) - Bulletchuckers (cf. "spearchuckers") - Zoomies (they like to go real fast lol) - Junk Jockeys (self explanatory, cf "camel jockeys") - [insert name of famous backstory minmatar] (kinda like how indians get called "Ghandi" sometimes) The trick is to come up with something that isn't offensive in and of itself but which sounds like it's probably raunchy -- kind of like "Hot Carl." It's too bad we don't know what these people eat, because some of the best racial slurs derive from food ("*****er" for southern white guy, and "Moulignam" is an italian- american slur for blacks -- means literally "eggplant"). And at the risk of throwing a grenade into the thread, anybody who has a thick skin and wants to go fishing for ideas can google the Racial Slur Database; it's got some pretty choice ones and doesn't discriminate (ie, your demographic is probably in there) but it seems like a good source of inspiration. ___________________________________________
Tommy TenKreds Animal Mercantile Executive	Posted - 2008.05.24 16:55:00 - [79] Originally by: Sitthh You clearly have no idea what logic is. You just made at least three illogical assertions and added two straw-man arguments for good measure. ...cool so I win the a argument, awsome. Now leave this forum plz. No you. Bandures > tommy you like a cowboy harry )
Akiba Penrose PAK	Posted - 2008.05.24 18:08:00 - [80] Edited by: Akiba Penrose on 24/05/2008 18:08:14 Originally by: Fredior Khan'Sebies First off, I believe that Tommy made the point that the term is offensive and does hurt people. That is well documented by various protests over the use of the word in public discourse by those offended by it. Could you refer me to some documentation that shows that online roleplayers get hurt when their characters is being referd to as monkeys? Originally by: Fredior Khan'Sebies If it has racist connotations, its usage should be confined to where it is obviously not used in racist ways. Amarr is a racist faction, they hold minmatar as slaves. Originally by: Fredior Khan'Sebies Bringing real world hate speech into a game simply isn't conducive to a good environment. Again,, minmatar is NOT refered to as monkeys because some of them are dark/black. THIS is why minmatar is refereed to as monkeys Originally by: Fredior Khan'Sebies So I contest that Amarrians would use "monkey" to describe Minmatar. Thats a fair point.
Sokratesz Rionnag Alba	Posted - 2008.05.24 18:16:00 - [81] i wish to change my vote to james I refuse to respect religious beliefs, and i refuse to respect people who hold them.
Trathen Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2008.05.24 18:23:00 - [82] While I see where Tommy is coming from, I can say that anyone that would be offended with something that specific and historical would have already been offended by the EvE lore itself (e.g. the Minmatar are the primitive savages). This is fine to many people of course, because the rest of you are prancing effete stick figures who can barely take abuse inside of a pod, much less outside of it.
Adonis 4174	Posted - 2008.05.24 18:31:00 - [83] What about characters who are fighting for another side than their race? ---- Infiniband can do more than just prevent lag
Trathen Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2008.05.24 18:33:00 - [84] Originally by: Adonis 4174 What about characters who are fighting for another side than their race? Dirty turncoats. Carpetbaggers. Practicioners of the most vile form of treachery and skullduggery the universe has ever witnessed. Something like that.
Verx Interis Aurora Security Cosmic Anomalies	Posted - 2008.05.24 18:35:00 - [85] BALD POWERS!!! Quote: nub> you cant mine so you kill.
Dr Slaughter Rabies Inc.	Posted - 2008.05.24 19:06:00 - [86] -meh- the forum 'disappeared' one of my comments which is the point when I normally stop posting for a few weeks but in this case I think the 'clue' to this 'racism' issue is in James title. It's two letters long. If any one is offended in RL by what a players character says in-game, simply petition them. If someone is role playing in game and in that context takes things too far CCP will deal with them. Corp's have had their names changed for these very reasons and people have been banned before too. Just re-read the title of the thread and stop dragging 'real life' into it. Rabies is unexpected ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ dealing with the UNDERPANTS of eve since 2004
K'orbin Hayato	Posted - 2008.05.24 20:56:00 - [87] Edited by: K''orbin Hayato on 24/05/2008 20:57:09 As a middle-class caucasian male, I find the idea of being offended by these so-called 'racist' terms to be laughably absurd. Anyone who is offended by them is obviously oversensitive or ridiculously PC-minded. Furthermore, I believe they should learn to not be bothered by such trivial matters. As someone who has never been oppressed or denied anything as a result of my skin color, country of birth, religious beliefs, or financial status I think I have a unique perspective on such issues and am perfectly qualified to dismiss them as 'no big deal'.
Kis Kecheri	Posted - 2008.05.24 21:41:00 - [88] Poastin' in a lets feel sorry people we pay lip service to thread. Why do whity always gotta keep them down
Saloris Nighthawke Ryche's Aggressors Asylum	Posted - 2008.05.24 22:51:00 - [89] Edited by: Saloris Nighthawke on 24/05/2008 22:55:55 Originally by: Kis Kecheri Oh, shut up you self-righteous **er. Your attitude is more offensive then Americans who intentionally immigrate to the US then expect free money and priority on jobs/services since they happen share a similar skin tone to people who were actually slaves over one hundred and fifty years ago. I experience more daily abuse and intolerance as a transvestite giving men sexual favors for money to pay for my drug habit then any person of colour has suffered. WTF are you talking about? Americans who immigrate TO the US? When they immigrate they are not American yet. If they are Illegal-immigrants they never will be. Are you talking about people from other countries who come to America to ***us and steal everything? edit: clarified a bit - sig was here
Xathytoz Roswell Project Victimz	Posted - 2008.05.25 00:05:00 - [90] Edited by: Xathytoz on 25/05/2008 00:12:13 Originally by: Saloris Nighthawke WTF are you talking about? Americans who immigrate TO the US? When they immigrate they are not American yet. If they are Illegal-immigrants they never will be. Are you talking about people from other countries who come to America to ***us and steal everything? Sounds like the caucasians that claimed the "New World" theirs, murdering the native people, stealing their resources, destroying their culture and putting the few surivors in so called reservats where they (did) die cuz of starvation? Congratz, Solaris, this was the first REAL racicst comment here. Originally by:** Tommy TenKreds Monkey is a racist term if you only use it in regard to black people. Okay, first of all, again. show me one black character. Dreadlocks don't make you originated in Africa. Even Sizilian, Greek or Spanish people can get a rather dark brown skin due to their mediterainian origin. Also, since monkey (as a word of INGAME/INCHARACTER-smack, not out-of-game) is used to descripe ALL Matari (not just those Brutors with brown skin and dreadlocks, but 3 player tribes + Thukker tribe + Ammatar even) in the given example, the word monkey hits also for example Sebiestor or even Brutor chars that are as pale as white. Not to say you are making a joke out of those men and women that had and still have to suffer racism in the REAL WORLD. Go make a stand there, but don't pull this issue through the mudd here playing yourself up to the Advocate of Political Correctness.
Dr Slaughter Rabies Inc.	Posted - 2008.05.25 00:35:00 - [91] Originally by: K'orbin Hayato Edited by: K''orbin Hayato on 24/05/2008 20:57:09 As a middle-class caucasian male, I find the idea of being offended by these so-called 'racist' terms to be laughably absurd. Anyone who is offended by them is obviously oversensitive or ridiculously PC-minded. Furthermore, I believe they should learn to not be bothered by such trivial matters. As someone who has never been oppressed or denied anything as a result of my skin color, country of birth, religious beliefs, or financial status I think I have a unique perspective on such issues and am perfectly qualified to dismiss them as 'no big deal'. Good for you. Now, with that Radio 4 brain and acerbic whit, how would you insult your enemy faction or are you just trolling? Rabies is unexpected ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ dealing with the UNDERPANTS of eve since 2004
Iyachtu Achlysiel Caldari Independent Navy Reserve The Fourth District	Posted - 2008.05.25 02:50:00 - [92] It's ****** and pointless to become angered by racial slurs. If someone uses them out of ignorance or by accident, then no offence was meant. It it was deliberate, the person is trying to force a reaction, to make you angry or hurt. To start frothing at mouth is giving him precisely what he wants, when you really don't have to. A racist, of whatever colour, is a sad little individual, and if he wants to show his idiocy to everyone, then it's his problem, not yours. As for this self-righteous preaching that's going on here, it's precisely what makes people think it's hip to start using the racist terms of old. Not because they're racist, not because they're necessarily any less dedicated to social justice, but because arrogant, huffy moralizing is seriously frustrating. And when it's not, then it's just damn funny to provoke by dropping some taboo words. Kind of nice for these sad excuses of liberals to provide something for young people to rebel against and ** off, now that I think of it. Christians just haven't been up to the job lately, and Religion of Peace takes it a bit too seriously sometimes. Anyway, can we get back to the business of insulting each other? Not that the crossdressing acidheads who gave us the Space Potato are worth any good insults, but still...
Zora Community for Justice ParadoXon Alliance	Posted - 2008.05.25 03:48:00 - [93] Gods damnit, this is the biggest parade of spacemonkeys I've ever seen in a single thread!!
Marine HK4861 Radical Technologies	Posted - 2008.05.25 04:00:00 - [94] Originally by: Dr Slaughter how would you insult your enemy faction Minmatar: Fedo lickers Gallente: Overcompensators coughThoraxCough
Saloris Nighthawke Ryche's Aggressors Asylum	Posted - 2008.05.25 15:28:00 - [95] Edited by: Saloris Nighthawke on 25/05/2008 15:29:36 Originally by: Xathytoz Sounds like the caucasians that claimed the "New World" theirs, murdering the native people, stealing their resources, destroying their culture and putting the few surivors in so called reservats where they (did) die cuz of starvation? Congratz, Solaris, this was the first REAL racicst comment here. How is what I said racist? How is the formation of the U.S. any different than the formation of any other country throughout history? Are you truly indigenous to the area you live in? Your family tree goes all the way back 10,000 years and you have never moved? Give me a break. Show me one country that has only indigenous people in it today. Please enlighten me as I must be really missing something here. People have been moving to other areas of this planet since the beginning of our history looking for food, shelter, etc. EVERY race of peoples on this planet has done what you are demonizing the "caucasians" of doing here in the states. So, kiss my ass and stop demonizing us caucasians. - sig was here
Sitthh	Posted - 2008.05.25 17:04:00 - [96] Originally by: Xathytoz Edited by: Xathytoz on 25/05/2008 00:12:13 Originally by: Saloris Nighthawke WTF are you talking about? Americans who immigrate TO the US? When they immigrate they are not American yet. If they are Illegal-immigrants they never will be. Are you talking about people from other countries who come to America to ***us and steal everything? Sounds like the caucasians that claimed the "New World" theirs, murdering the native people, stealing their resources, destroying their culture and putting the few surivors in so called reservats where they (did) die cuz of starvation? Congratz, Solaris, this was the first REAL racicst comment here. Originally by:** Tommy TenKreds Monkey is a racist term if you only use it in regard to black people. Okay, first of all, again. show me one black character. Dreadlocks don't make you originated in Africa. Even Sizilian, Greek or Spanish people can get a rather dark brown skin due to their mediterainian origin. Also, since monkey (as a word of INGAME/INCHARACTER-smack, not out-of-game) is used to descripe ALL Matari (not just those Brutors with brown skin and dreadlocks, but 3 player tribes + Thukker tribe + Ammatar even) in the given example, the word monkey hits also for example Sebiestor or even Brutor chars that are as pale as white. Not to say you are making a joke out of those men and women that had and still have to suffer racism in the REAL WORLD. Go make a stand there, but don't pull this issue through the mudd here playing yourself up to the Advocate of Political Correctness. Who cares if we took our land from someone weaker. Not everyone gets to be the most powerful. Its called the human race for a reason, some ppl gotta lose. Srry to break the news to you but only the strongest survive. If you dont like it...well to bad its evolution.
Admus Multiverse Corporation Cosmic Anomalies	Posted - 2008.05.25 17:21:00 - [97] Originally by: Stakhanov \| \| \| V /win ---------------------------------------------------------- "Villains always have antidotes. They're funny that way."
flashfreaking LFC Insurgency	Posted - 2008.05.25 17:56:00 - [98] I think some Minmatar can easily be called "Michael Jackson" tbh... And that is, in my opinion the worst insult ever :D Disallowed sig graphic. Send an e-mail to [email protected] when it meets the forum signature guidelines. ~Saint
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates	Posted - 2008.05.25 23:16:00 - [99] Silence Funny-heads. Monkey is no more a perjorative term than any. Yes, it's vaguely offensive. But really. OOOOK! oook OOOOK oook. I think that says it all really. -- Crane needs more grid 249km locking?
Adonis 4174	Posted - 2008.05.25 23:38:00 - [100] Originally by: James Lyrus Silence Funny-heads. Monkey is no more a perjorative term than any. Yes, it's vaguely offensive. But really. OOOOK! oook OOOOK oook. I think that says it all really. Yeah. Don't use that word around an orang-utan or you'll regret it. ---- Infiniband can do more than just prevent lag
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates	Posted - 2008.05.28 20:16:00 - [101] It should also be noted that Caldari are in no way related to squid. Those are Calamari, and entirely different. -- Crane needs more grid 249km locking?

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