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Benco97
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Posted - 2008.05.21 11:34:00 -
[1]
Isn't it about time we had some TechII versions of the mining frigs? The Burst is just SCREAMING to be made TechII and I really feel that it and it's counterparts in other races deserve some recognition, it just isn't fair.
Now, as for roles it would be pointless and counter-productive to simply give them increased mining amount (As I have shown previously the Burst can hardly hold one cycle of one mining laser so any more would actually make it impossible to mine in it) so something different would be required, mining laser range bonuses wouldn't be that useful really, frigate are small and fast (Yes, even the mining ones) so a range bonus for a stationary task is pretty rubbish. So.... How about a bonus to cycle time? It'd be unique to the mining Frigates, not actually too powerful on account of them being able to fit only a limited number of mining lasers (Two) but it would increase their mining output without increasing their actual mining amount. Considering their small cargobay size you'd have to be constantly vigilant against overfilling and canceling your cycles (Which would result in wasted time and lower mining efficiency).
Also, my BF just pointed out, how about they are able to mine a base rock yet have a chance to harvest the improved version? For example, if you're mining regular Veldspar you get 50% Veldspar and 50% Concentrated Veldspar. Again, it's a pretty powerful ability that is also unique but is curbed by the ships inherent lack of mining lasers.
Obviously it needs thinking about for balance reasons and I guess most people won't really care because it's not an idea about how to make some ship kill things faster or tank huge damage for longer but I want CCP to know that SOME PEOPLE fly these ships and it'd be nice if there was something for us, you know? Anyway, I just thought I'd throw the idea out and see if anyone agreed?
Originally by: Kirjava This man speaks the truth, when he farts we count the length in seconds and make squillions buying winning lottery tickets.
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Saietor Blackgreen
The First Foundation
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Posted - 2008.05.21 13:23:00 -
[2]
As any other industrial profession, mining is all about efficiency. Product per hour, profit per unit. I hope there's no argument to that.
Making a "mining frigate that can mine better" is more or less pointless - we have mining cruisers and then mining barges, that fill that role perfectly both in terms of efficiency and the way you train up for them (except the covetor that could use reduction in skill requirement).
Next.
Tech II ships, by definition, are specialists. They are USUALLY not "bigger meaner T1 ship", they are specialized ships. For this we have T2 mining barges, that are specialists in Ice, Mexorcit and General ore mining respectively.
Next.
For any viability of suggestion of T2 mining frig, it needs a role. Obviously it should not overlap with barges role. A small, fast, agile ship with a miner?
Currently, there is no resources, environments or even situations where "ninja-mining" is necessary. Hidden asteroid belts are not worth mining in general, a steady mining of stationary ones is much more profitable, even though it is less fun. If such environments get introduced - THEN we should start thinking of T2 mining frig or even T2 mining cruiser.
For now, if you long for that "treasure hunting" thing - go exploration, there is a T2 frig for that. --- Redesign local/scanner feature - make the place huge, dark and scary again! |
Benco97
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Posted - 2008.05.21 14:49:00 -
[3]
Well I actually do think there is a place for this type of ship, There is no real difference between the Procuror, Retriever and Covetor other than their respective maximum mining amounts yet the Retriever and Procuror are still used.
If the ship had BOTH bonuses that I proposed then it would have a use as "Cleanup", quickly and effectively gathering up all the tiny asteroids that the Barges miss (for sake of efficiency many Barge and Exhumer pilots do not mine particularly small asteroids, for obvious reasons.)The first bonus would make them great at sucking up the tiny rocks and the second would make it even more worthwhile to use them for this job. It's a small role but a role none the less.
More variety of ships used is always a good thing, I just don't want to wake up one day and see that the TechII versions of the mining frigates are just MORE useless combat vessels.
My ideas for their path may not be good but SOMETHING should be done with these ships.
Originally by: Kirjava This man speaks the truth, when he farts we count the length in seconds and make squillions buying winning lottery tickets.
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Saietor Blackgreen
The First Foundation
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Posted - 2008.05.21 16:49:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Saietor Blackgreen on 21/05/2008 16:51:58 No, procurer is not used. Retriever is used untill people learn to fly covetor, which is a fairly long time.
There is no point on "sucking leftovers in small roids" is moot. Barges can do it just as well.
There is no good in extra ship diversity if it is not needed, because it uses up the resources of Devs. What "useless T2 combat vessels" ae you referring to? I admit there are some that are used less than other, but thats always a case, you cant make them completely even.
*My ideas for their path may not be good but SOMETHING should be done with these ships.*
I still fail to see why. Wanna small mining vessel? Fit Procurer or mining cruiser for agility and speed. Or destroyer. I mean, mining frigates are only there for a smooth startup of mining profession. They are for miners what Rifter is for PvPer or Kestrel is for PvEer :) --- Redesign local/scanner feature - make the place huge, dark and scary again! |
Bronson Hughes
The. Conspiracy
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Posted - 2008.05.21 17:05:00 -
[5]
While I do think that the T1 mining frigs deserve some sort of T2 role, I don't think that mining is the answer. Unlike combat ships, where there is usually an actual role for advanced ships of different size, it's juat not practical to mine in a smaller ship if you already have access to a bigger ship.
Here are some thoughts on what I think T2 mining frigs should do:
1. Mining Foreman Ship. Ship bonuses could include tractor beam range (to move cans to haulers), survey scanner range (to find better roids), and the typical mining/cargo space bonuses. As a role bonus, it would be able to fit mining foreman gang link modules. Basically, a veeery tiny Rorqual, not an actual mining ship.
2. Salvage Tug. Ship bonuses could include tractor beam range, salvager cycle time reduction, salvager success rate, and cargo space. I can't think of a role bonus for one. This would be a specialist salvage ship that could replace destroyers. -------------------- "I am hard pressed on my right; my centre is giving way; situation excellent; I am attacking." - Ferdinand Foch at the Battle of the Marne |
Constance Harme
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Posted - 2008.05.21 17:11:00 -
[6]
How about we make the T2 mining frigates mini-command ships for small 2-4 man gangs.
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Nariana Verex
Oberon Incorporated Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2008.05.21 17:31:00 -
[7]
Changing 'Mining Frigate' to 'Professional Frigate' and voila. You have uses for them. Several T2 frigates [Or one different one for each race]. You can have one that hacks, one for archeology, one for salvaging, and one for materializing isk into your account when you use its special DDD.
Do the right thing. Don't leave shuttles in space. |
Erotic Irony
0bsession
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Posted - 2008.05.21 17:38:00 -
[8]
the ships benco wants exist in the db and have been there since time immemorial
whether they materialize is anyone's guess ___ Eve Players are not very smart. Support Killmail Overhaul
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Shiken Kan
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Posted - 2008.05.21 18:08:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Shiken Kan on 21/05/2008 18:12:03 How about this:
Araucana
required skills: Caldari Frigate V Astrogeology V Deep Space Miner I
Caldari Frig Bonus: +5% Cargo per level +20% mining yield per level
Deep Space Miner Bonus: +5% Shield resistance per level +25% cloaked velocity per level
Role bonus: Mining laser cpu requirement -60%
slot layout: low 2 mid 5 high 4
3 turret hardpoints 5m^3 dronespace 5Bps bandwidth
cargo capacity 2000m^3 PG 30 CPU 320 shield 500 armor 188 structure 188 vmax 260m/s mass 2000000 kg signature 50m^2 Cap 800 recharge 187.5s locking range 30km
This ship would be a nice ninja miner without replacing a standard covops in its role, it's high mass makes it not suitable as tackler and the lack of bonuses makes it a bad ew ship. It could also be used to loot missions which is a plus imo. The huge cargohold for a frig is still small enough to not replace industrial ships, whereas it could easily be used to probe moons in 0.0
thoughts?
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Pax Empyrean
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Posted - 2008.05.21 18:43:00 -
[10]
I was going to suggest a miner with some sort of cloaking ability with the idea being that you could take it into more dangerous areas to mine resources. It'd have to be fairly cheap so it would be worth risking. So yeah... I like the above suggestion.
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Benco97
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Posted - 2008.05.21 19:20:00 -
[11]
Great ideas people
I really like the idea of the Mini-rorqual in particular, I could never have thought of that (like I said, my ideas suck)
More highs but only one Turret perhaps? It itself loses mining ability but gains more utility highs.
I like it
Originally by: Kirjava This man speaks the truth, when he farts we count the length in seconds and make squillions buying winning lottery tickets.
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Dristra
Shadows of the Dead R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2008.05.21 20:26:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Pax Empyrean I was going to suggest a miner with some sort of cloaking ability with the idea being that you could take it into more dangerous areas to mine resources. It'd have to be fairly cheap so it would be worth risking. So yeah... I like the above suggestion.
Sorry to say, but I agree, civilian ships that are cheap, and a improved low-sec (with rare resources that require you to visit the belts and search for them)would make eve happy Support the introduction of well thought out Amarr solutions!
I believe rats should avoid you if you have high standing with them. |
Blk Mage
Rogue Chrome Angelz
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Posted - 2008.05.22 01:27:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Blk Mage on 22/05/2008 01:40:49
Originally by: Pax Empyrean civilian ships
Where? Seriously, tell that to the Iteron V I had to replace 2 days ago. In .7 space no less...
In a universe where PvP can take place in ANY system, there is no such thing as a civilian ship.
And to be on topic, not sure if I'd like a cloaking mining ship. As a miner myself, I think something a little faster, more like an Interceptor, but with the Mining Foreman bonuses and tractor beams, would be better. If you want, you could still use it for mining, but would make for a good mining support ship, almost like EWar. |
Saietor Blackgreen
The First Foundation
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Posted - 2008.05.22 07:54:00 -
[14]
Mini-Rorqual is supposed to come as Orca sometime Soon (tm), AFAIK. It will not be frigate-sized of course, but its the same role. |
Megan Maynard
Out of Order
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Posted - 2008.05.22 11:09:00 -
[15]
Seeing how they are all ugly as sin, make the t2 versions salvaging ships.
Put those destroyers back on the front lines, they are being lazy. |
Maglorre
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Posted - 2008.05.22 11:12:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Benco97
My ideas for their path may not be good but SOMETHING should be done with these ships.
Reprocess them. All the Bursts and Procurers.
Only other use for the Procurer is as a component in the Skiff. |
TimMc
Genos Occidere
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Posted - 2008.05.22 11:23:00 -
[17]
Edited by: TimMc on 22/05/2008 11:23:40
Originally by: Blk Mage Edited by: Blk Mage on 22/05/2008 01:40:49
Originally by: Pax Empyrean civilian ships
Where? Seriously, tell that to the Iteron V I had to replace 2 days ago. In .7 space no less...
In a universe where PvP can take place in ANY system, there is no such thing as a civilian ship.
And to be on topic, not sure if I'd like a cloaking mining ship. As a miner myself, I think something a little faster, more like an Interceptor, but with the Mining Foreman bonuses and tractor beams, would be better. If you want, you could still use it for mining, but would make for a good mining support ship, almost like EWar.
Since when have pirates, and even invading armies, ignored civilians?
Seriously the lack of intelligence and logical argument in this thread is disgusting. Ninja mining does not exist, and if you try it you will find it completely unprofitable compared to running low level missions.
There does not need to be a tech 2 version of everything. Next you will be wanting a special version of the hulk with 4 high slots, so you can fit a cloak without losing any of the 3 strip miners.
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Shiken Kan
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Posted - 2008.05.22 13:29:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Shiken Kan on 22/05/2008 13:32:11 ninja mining does not exist due to the simple reason that there is no ship that could do it profitably. Hence the ship i suggested. hisec miners really don't need another toy and considering the amount of skills needed to use mining foreman links efficiently you'd be better off with a bc to provide said bonuses then in a t2 frig that has no advantages in doing it's job over a bc. /edit oh and btw when i was 3 days into this game i started ninja mining in 0.0 and it was way more profitable (and fun) then running lvl 1 or lvl 2 missions. It just becomes a waste of time when you have more sp and better ships/missions.
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Kano Sekor
modro CORPVS DELICTI
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Posted - 2008.05.22 13:39:00 -
[19]
Covert miners ftw! ----------------------------------------------------------------------
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Hllaxiu
Shiva Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2008.05.22 13:55:00 -
[20]
Gas cloud mining? --- Our greatest glory is not in never failing, but in rising up every time we fail. - Emerson |
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Saietor Blackgreen
The First Foundation
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Posted - 2008.05.22 13:59:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Saietor Blackgreen on 22/05/2008 14:00:07
Originally by: Hllaxiu Gas cloud mining?
Could be, but no point with current boosters mechanics, i guess.
To the overall idea - you want a mobile, cloakable ship, capable of mining? Use a mining cruiser! Thats why there are mining cruisers after all, no? --- Redesign local/scanner feature - make the place huge, dark and scary again! |
Saietor Blackgreen
The First Foundation
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Posted - 2008.05.22 14:29:00 -
[22]
[Osprey, 0.0 Ninja Miner (gurista space)] Inertia Stabilizers II Co-Processor II Co-Processor II
10MN MicroWarpdrive II Survey Scanner II Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Miner II Miner II Miner II Prototype Cloaking Device I
Anti-Kinetic Screen Reinforcer I Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I Anti-Kinetic Screen Reinforcer I
Hornet II x4
All fits and works with Electronics 5 and Shield Upgrades 4. Fills up the 500 or so cargo with 1 cycle of 3 lasers. This is probably even over-ninja'ing.
Tried Scythe - but it has not enough fittings and 5th highslot is useless. --- Redesign local/scanner feature - make the place huge, dark and scary again! |
Shiken Kan
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Posted - 2008.05.22 15:30:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Saietor Blackgreen [Osprey, 0.0 Ninja Miner (gurista space)] Inertia Stabilizers II Co-Processor II Co-Processor II
10MN MicroWarpdrive II Survey Scanner II Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Miner II Miner II Miner II Prototype Cloaking Device I
Anti-Kinetic Screen Reinforcer I Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I Anti-Kinetic Screen Reinforcer I
Hornet II x4
All fits and works with Electronics 5 and Shield Upgrades 4. Fills up the 500 or so cargo with 1 cycle of 3 lasers. This is probably even over-ninja'ing.
Tried Scythe - but it has not enough fittings and 5th highslot is useless.
This is *not* a viable ninja miner. The ship costs around 7m, give or take. Per trip you can 'ninja' around mebbe 120k worth of rock.
->You need over 60 trips to make the ship pay for itself and your chances of surviving a 0.0 gatecamp are close to nil even with mwd\cloak combo.
The mining itself isn't what makes ninjamining hard, it's the problem of moving the ore, so whether you need 1 or 100 cycles to fill your hold doesn't matter much, if rats warp into your belt you simply switch belts.
atm the *best* ninja miner looks like this:
osprey
low cargo expanders I
mids nuffin
highs miner I
this only needs to survive every 5th or so trip as long as your clone is cheap and the low overall profit makes it only feasible for really new players which mebbe don't even exist anymore thx to over a million starting sp.
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Nariana Verex
Oberon Incorporated Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2008.05.22 15:45:00 -
[24]
Thread Derail; Did you ever notice that the Amarr mining frigate, after the premium graphics pack, looks a -little- like the lolwut pear?
Do you really want a T2 LOLWUT plaguing EVE?
Do the right thing. Don't leave shuttles in space. |
Mire Stoude
Cash Money Brothers R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2008.05.22 19:34:00 -
[25]
I like the idea of a t2 mining frigate that would give a bonus to the mining gang mods. Allow them to fit 1-2 mining gang mods. With cap reduction to match so they can be ran permanently.
Also, allow them to fit in the ship hanger on a rorq.
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Saietor Blackgreen
The First Foundation
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Posted - 2008.05.23 06:11:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Mire Stoude I like the idea of a t2 mining frigate that would give a bonus to the mining gang mods. Allow them to fit 1-2 mining gang mods. With cap reduction to match so they can be ran permanently.
Also, allow them to fit in the ship hanger on a rorq.
And make all the macrominers happy in the paaants! --- Redesign local/scanner feature - make the place huge, dark and scary again! |
Sharida
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Posted - 2008.05.23 07:21:00 -
[27]
I like the idea of a salvage ship. There is already specialty roles for command bonuses (BC and command ships)
I am thinking....
[racial frig] V Salvaging V Science V (or something else)
[racial frigate] skill 20% cargo / skill lvl resists like the assault ship
Salvage ship bonus 2.5% bonus to access dificulty of salvagers / skill lvl 5% tractor speed / skill lvl
Role bonus 50% bonus to tracor control range
High - 3-4 slots Mids - 1-3 slots Lows - 1-3 slots {slots depending on race}
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Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba
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Posted - 2008.05.23 07:43:00 -
[28]
An osprey already outmines the tier-1 barge so T1 mining frigs will either obsolete both of those two, or they should somehow boost all the barges.
I refuse to respect religious beliefs, and i refuse to respect people who hold them. |
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