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Sticky:New dev blog: Rebalancing EVE, one ship at a time

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 22 post(s)
Aphoxema G Teraa Matar 230	Posted - 2012.03.06 18:10:00 - [31] - Quote With changes this fundamental (every other skill stems from what you want to fly), simply refunding for the ship skills is completely unacceptable. The minimum we deserve to be given is a complete respec (refund all SP and return the skillbooks to the redeeming system) to requalify ourselves for what we are interested in using. People like me with 2004 characters wouldn't be hurt so badly, I can stick to one race if I have to. I can switch to drones or missiles or any turret or armor rep or shield rep. Players less than three years old won't be so fortunate and by forcing them to stick to one race, they'll generally be screwed-over with the kind of skilltraining new users are prone to. After all, no one starts playing EVE knowing everything any person needs to know to survive. I hereby demand on behalf of all players that the only appropriate result of this kind of change is the chance to start over. Warp drive failure indicator: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=887805#post887805
Jackie Cross MacGyver Communications 1	Posted - 2012.03.06 18:11:00 - [32] - Quote I like this change, strange enough. As long as you balance the training times. It shouldn't be faster to get into t3 than t2. But I don't feel that t2 should get a lot shorter training time. "It hurts soooo good."
Shandir Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 42	Posted - 2012.03.06 18:11:00 - [33] - Quote I am uncomfortable with the idea, but you may have to translate existing Des/BC X to all 4 races, and not to a single chosen race. It's the only way to avoid people needing to retrain for existing ships. Also, LOL at the people demanding a full SP reset. Keep trying guys!
Reilly Duvolle Hydra Squadron 422	Posted - 2012.03.06 18:11:00 - [34] - Quote Liang Nuren wrote: It goes far beyond simply unappealing. It is simply not practical. We've got dozens of battlecruisers in the wormhole we live in and potentially nobody would even be able to fly them for months. The best solution is not to reimburse BC/Destroyer SP but to give everyone the racial skills at the level they have them trained when the books are seeded. -Liang easily solvable with a grace period during which the old skill will work and which give you time to train the new ones to level 4, after which the original skill is terminated and SP reimbursed to be used wherever you want
Smoking Blunts ZC Industries Dark Stripes 203	Posted - 2012.03.06 18:12:00 - [35] - Quote CCP Ytterbium wrote: The skill requirement changes for destroyers and battlecruisers is very tricky to tackle indeed. We fully acknowledge having to re-train for ships you can already fly is not appealing at all. As said in the blog, nothing is set in stone yet, we are considering various reimbursement options as this is still quite a high level change. it not just not appealing its crazy. pre patch i can fly all cs's and all dic's. post patch im ****. i either pick to fly a claymore or damnation or a vulture (eos is ** anyhow) and then im screwed for the next 80 odd days retraining for ships i could already fly. you either reduce the ranks of the destroyer and bc skills so reimbursed skill points from the old cover all 4 races, or you just give people all 4 races. CCP-áare full of words and no action. We will watch what they are doing, for now
Grideris Fleet Coordination Command Fleet Coordination Coalition 158	Posted - 2012.03.06 18:12:00 - [36] - Quote CCP Ytterbium wrote: The skill requirement changes for destroyers and battlecruisers is very tricky to tackle indeed. We fully acknowledge having to re-train for ships you can already fly is not appealing at all. As said in the blog, nothing is set in stone yet, we are considering various reimbursement options as this is still quite a high level change. Is it possible to instead of refunding the SP, just give the skills instead? Because if you can do so, here is what I would do: If a player has Racial Frigate III and Destroyers X - give player Recial Destroyer X for every race they have Racial Frigate III in Ditto for Battlecruisers This would really only work if you could actually give us the skills directly. Refunding would result in players having more skill points than they originally spent training the skill to spend on other things. Restricting it to the Battlecruiser and Destroyer skills would mean that they keep the level they were at across all races, but aren't able to spend all of the extra skill points elsewhere. http://www.dust514.org - *the* unofficial forum for everything DUST 514 http://www.dust514base.com - the blog site with everything else DUST 514 you need
Whiteknight03 Trilon Industries and Exploration 41	Posted - 2012.03.06 18:12:00 - [37] - Quote Aphoxema G wrote: With changes this fundamental (every other skill stems from what you want to fly), simply refunding for the ship skills is completely unacceptable. The minimum we deserve to be given is a complete respec (refund all SP and return the skillbooks to the redeeming system) to requalify ourselves for what we are interested in using. People like me with 2004 characters wouldn't be hurt so badly, I can stick to one race if I have to. I can switch to drones or missiles or any turret or armor rep or shield rep. Players less than three years old won't be so fortunate and by forcing them to stick to one race, they'll generally be screwed-over with the kind of skilltraining new users are prone to. After all, no one starts playing EVE knowing everything any person needs to know to survive. I hereby demand on behalf of all players that the only appropriate result of this kind of change is the chance to start over. QQ Moar, can I haz your stuff? And a "It's for the new players" argument will inevitably be better for older players. I'm guessing you want to get rid of some skills you don't use much, huh?
Tsubutai The Tuskers 65	Posted - 2012.03.06 18:13:00 - [38] - Quote Should also add that I'm a bit sceptical about the idea of rebalancing ships to fit specific roles - while it sounds intriguing, I think it could also lead to excessive pigeonholing. Restricting the scope for coming up with new ways to fit and use ships outside of their 'intended' role would be bad for the game.
Entity X-Factor Industries Synthetic Existence 132	Posted - 2012.03.06 18:13:00 - [39] - Quote Maybe start with the turret skills? Doesn't make much sense to be forced to train SPECIALIZATIONS for smaller turrets if what you want is LARGE TURRET SPEC, and you already have the relevant LARGE TURRET skill ;) GòªGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGòæGûæGûæGûæGòöGòùGûæGòæGûæGòæGûæGòöGòùGûæGòªGòæGûæGòöGòùGòöGòªGòùGòöGòù GòæGûæGòöGòùGòöGòùGòöGòúGûæGòöGòùGòáGûæGûæGòáGûæGòáGòùGòáGò¥GûæGòæGòáGûæGòáGò¥GòæGòæGòæGòÜGòù Gò¬GòÉGòÜGò¥GòæGûæGòÜGò¥GûæGòÜGò¥GòæGûæGûæGòÜGò¥GòæGòæGòÜGò¥GûæGò¬GòÜGò¥GòÜGò¥GòæGûæGòæGòÜGò¥ Got Item? \| [topic=6504]EVE API?[/topic] \| [topic=6501]Cache?[/topic]
Sentient Blade Walk It Off Imperial Ascension 276	Posted - 2012.03.06 18:13:00 - [40] - Quote Eugh.... Just what we always wanted... having to spend even MORE time cross-training to experience the different races and play styles of EvE. Battlecruisers is one of the best skills there is for a very good reason; you spend a month training it and then it gives you lots of flexibility. You get it, and it opens lots of doors... and variety is what people enjoy. If you do this, then a lot of people, myself included, are going to be pissed. It's introducing more drag just for the hell of it.


CCP Soundwave C C P C C P Alliance 543	Posted - 2012.03.06 18:13:00 - [41] - Quote Smoking Blunts wrote: CCP Ytterbium wrote: The skill requirement changes for destroyers and battlecruisers is very tricky to tackle indeed. We fully acknowledge having to re-train for ships you can already fly is not appealing at all. As said in the blog, nothing is set in stone yet, we are considering various reimbursement options as this is still quite a high level change. it not just not appealing its crazy. pre patch i can fly all cs's and all dic's. post patch im ****. i either pick to fly a claymore or damnation or a vulture (eos is ** anyhow) and then im screwed for the next 80 odd days retraining for ships i could already fly. you either reduce the ranks of the destroyer and bc skills so reimbursed skill points from the old cover all 4 races, or you just give people all 4 races. We'll find a suitable reimbursement that makes everyone happy. I'm not terribly fussed about giving away a little extra if it moves we move the ship progression system into a better place.

Natalie Cerulean Ixion Defence Systems Tactical Narcotics Team 38	Posted - 2012.03.06 18:13:00 - [42] - Quote I don't like this at all personally. I have two characters one is more or less pure caldari, and the the other is pure amarr (currently training her for capital ships). While it "makes more sense" until I can see a way to fix it so that you are screwing everyone who has already trained their racial skills up I 100% disapprove.
Atrum Veneficus GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 64	Posted - 2012.03.06 18:13:00 - [43] - Quote As a player who already has all frigates, cruisers, and battleships to 5, I find it an incredibly **** move to remove a large portion of my current ship options because you see a new shiny in the corner. Replace the generic skill with all four racial specific skills at the same level. Battlecruiser V was an incredibly annoying grind and I find it disgusting you want to chop it into to four pieces - unless the total SP requirement of the 4 racial battlecruisers to V equals the SP refunded from battlecruiser V.
DelBoy Trades Trotter Independent Traders. 229	Posted - 2012.03.06 18:14:00 - [44] - Quote Do devs just get paid to sit around smoking crack all day? This is the worst thing I've ever seen. Those of us with BC 5 get the pleasure of training it 3 more times. **** that. Damn nature, you scary!
Destination SkillQueue Are We There Yet 1973	Posted - 2012.03.06 18:15:00 - [45] - Quote Smoking Blunts wrote: Liang Nuren wrote: This is AWESOME, but I'm a bit miffed that those of us who have extensively crosstrained are going to be stuck re-training up 3 Destroyer and 3 BC skills. -Liang this, not happy about having to train 6 skills to fly ships i can already fly I can't emphasize this enough. I'm now using battlecruisers from 3 races, so you're telling me I have to shelve 2/3 of them for weeks and retraining them to my current skill level will take months of extra training. I like tiericide as much as the next person and think it is a worthy goal, but this is a really nasty kick in the ******* and makes crosstraining a bit less appealing prospect in general.
DelBoy Trades Trotter Independent Traders. 230	Posted - 2012.03.06 18:15:00 - [46] - Quote CCP Soundwave wrote: We'll find a suitable reimbursement that makes everyone happy. I'm not terribly fussed about giving away a little extra if it moves we move the ship progression system into a better place. A little extra? you're looking at atleast 8 times more. Damn nature, you scary!
Alara IonStorm 1726	Posted - 2012.03.06 18:15:00 - [47] - Quote One suggestion. You have 3 types of Combat Ships, 1 Industrial and 1 Support Line. Quote: Support vessels: mainly focused on assisting a friendly force, or disrupting an enemy fleet. Have average damage, poor defense, average mobility. Electronic warfare is the prime illustration of this line. EVE examples: Scorpion, Blackbird, Celestis, Arbitrator. Here is your example of Support. It says nothing to differentiate between Ships that give positives and ones that give negative support in the Ship Lines despite having 3 Combat Lines. Perhaps you should have Positive Support (Logi, Tracking Links) and Negative Support (ECM, Target Painters) as separate categories.
Rei Kwon Commonwealth Enterprises 1	Posted - 2012.03.06 18:16:00 - [48] - Quote Palovana wrote: Those are some HUGE-ASS images, and trust me, I know huge ass. I'm sayin'! C'mon CCP, I know it's just a dev blog but those images brought Chrome to a crawl! Vector graphics, please!
Swearte Widfarend Mortis Noir. 23	Posted - 2012.03.06 18:16:00 - [49] - Quote So to clarify your devblog. If you currently have in-game assets in the nature of multiple, racial destroyers, interdictors, battlecruisers, or command ships, you are totally screwed. Because when this is done, you have to choose which one racial ship you want access to now, and then plan to train (up to) an additional 6,144,000 skill points at x2 and x6 to unlock ships you may already own. Which translates (based on an available remap to per/wil) about FIVE MONTHS of retraining. Here are my tears. Feast upon them. Carebears in hisec, rejoice. This change cripples nullsec players in ways you will never experience.
Liang Nuren Parsec Flux 915	Posted - 2012.03.06 18:16:00 - [50] - Quote CCP Soundwave wrote: Smoking Blunts wrote: CCP Ytterbium wrote: The skill requirement changes for destroyers and battlecruisers is very tricky to tackle indeed. We fully acknowledge having to re-train for ships you can already fly is not appealing at all. As said in the blog, nothing is set in stone yet, we are considering various reimbursement options as this is still quite a high level change. it not just not appealing its crazy. pre patch i can fly all cs's and all dic's. post patch im ****. i either pick to fly a claymore or damnation or a vulture (eos is ** anyhow) and then im screwed for the next 80 odd days retraining for ships i could already fly. you either reduce the ranks of the destroyer and bc skills so reimbursed skill points from the old cover all 4 races, or you just give people all 4 races. We'll find a suitable reimbursement that makes everyone happy. I'm not terribly fussed about giving away a little extra if it moves we move the ship progression system into a better place. Good enough for me. I'll link this post in post #2 to help quell the rising panic. <3 -Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://vimeo.com/user9887127 Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren

Jax Slizard Celerna Talocan United 5	Posted - 2012.03.06 18:17:00 - [51] - Quote Really, there are only two fair ways to do the skill thing, both have been suggested before. 1. Just give everyone who has Destroyers and Battlecruisers trained already all four skills at the level they are now. It hurts CCP because its free SP, but it screws players much much harder to not be able to fly 10+ ships they could FOR SEVERAL MONTHS. 2. If you REALLY change the system, just give everyone every single SP in the entire Ship Command tree back, and let us pick what we want to be able to fly.
Tanaka Aiko ICE is Coming to EVE Goonswarm Federation 49	Posted - 2012.03.06 18:17:00 - [52] - Quote i like the big changes on the ships roles and stats, and the end of the tier system, but as lots of people i'm pretty worried about the skills i'll be missin you should at least offer free SP for a second race for people having destro/bc well anyway, at least that's finally a blog with lots of interesting content that you delive Quote: you either reduce the ranks of the destroyer and bc skills so reimbursed skill points from the old cover all 4 races that's an interesting solution ; 4 skills not 1, but asking for the same SP overrall. but seems you point is to review the time needed to fly the differents ships, so giving free SP me be a better choice giving your vision
Kenerian Tri-gun Psychotic Tendencies. 6	Posted - 2012.03.06 18:17:00 - [53] - Quote You spelled Spear incorrectly (when discussing Direct combat battleships you said spar instead of spear in spear heading.). Love, Ken.
Dinta Zembo Snuff Box 24	Posted - 2012.03.06 18:17:00 - [54] - Quote CCP Ytterbium wrote: You're gonna have to train 4 skills to lvl 5 and we're only gonna give you the SP's to train 1 trololol Go away

CCP Soundwave C C P C C P Alliance 549	Posted - 2012.03.06 18:17:00 - [55] - Quote DelBoy Trades wrote: CCP Soundwave wrote: We'll find a suitable reimbursement that makes everyone happy. I'm not terribly fussed about giving away a little extra if it moves we move the ship progression system into a better place. A little extra? you're looking at atleast 8 times more. We'll sit down and have a chat about it, but what we're looking to do is create a solid ship scheme, not take things away from people. You'll be reimbursed properly.

Joe D'Trader Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 77	Posted - 2012.03.06 18:17:00 - [56] - Quote Good idea, But no Amarr destroyers Or Caldari BC. Go away with that mess.
Teron Radec Enslave. Suddenly Spaceships. 11	Posted - 2012.03.06 18:17:00 - [57] - Quote If anything's going to make you wonder whether you can be arsed with the game anymore it's this.
Kozmic Caldari Provisions Caldari State 12	Posted - 2012.03.06 18:18:00 - [58] - Quote Tsubutai wrote: Should also add that I'm a bit sceptical about the idea of rebalancing ships to fit specific roles - while it sounds intriguing, I think it could also lead to excessive pigeonholing.. I'd rather have pigeonholing than uselessness - which is what most EVE ships are today.
Smoking Blunts ZC Industries Dark Stripes 206	Posted - 2012.03.06 18:18:00 - [59] - Quote CCP Soundwave wrote: Smoking Blunts wrote: CCP Ytterbium wrote: The skill requirement changes for destroyers and battlecruisers is very tricky to tackle indeed. We fully acknowledge having to re-train for ships you can already fly is not appealing at all. As said in the blog, nothing is set in stone yet, we are considering various reimbursement options as this is still quite a high level change. it not just not appealing its crazy. pre patch i can fly all cs's and all dic's. post patch im ****. i either pick to fly a claymore or damnation or a vulture (eos is ** anyhow) and then im screwed for the next 80 odd days retraining for ships i could already fly. you either reduce the ranks of the destroyer and bc skills so reimbursed skill points from the old cover all 4 races, or you just give people all 4 races. We'll find a suitable reimbursement that makes everyone happy. I'm not terribly fussed about giving away a little extra if it moves we move the ship progression system into a better place. cool. im really hoping that on this patch day i dont get crippled on ship choice. reason i trained all 4 race cs's and dic is so i could fly them all, having to train for them again would really be........ anoying is prob the least angry would i could use for that feeling CCP-áare full of words and no action. We will watch what they are doing, for now
Dead Soldier R.T.F.M 0	Posted - 2012.03.06 18:18:00 - [60] - Quote CCP Ytterbium wrote: The skill requirement changes for destroyers and battlecruisers is very tricky to tackle indeed. We fully acknowledge having to re-train for ships you can already fly is not appealing at all. As said in the blog, nothing is set in stone yet, we are considering various reimbursement options as this is still quite a high level change. Don't the forget gunnery/missile/Shield/armor skills. I have all those skills just because i can fly multiple race's. So this is not only related to the ship commands skills but all lot of others as well.



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