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First CSM Issues: Choosing Vice Chair, Secretary, Vice Secretary.

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 4 post(s)
Tress Macneille Eight year old girls GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.05.22 08:50:00 - [61] Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah The only party resorting to petty jibes is Goonswarm. The sudden massive Goon presense in this thread is further proof that this is an organized trolling action, which is exactly in line with the tactics employed by Something Awful members. The only thing we can learn from this is that the CSM forums should be heavily moderated. So please continue your actions as they'll only serve to accomplish the opposite of what you desire. Again you are veering off the subject in your rush to condemn the imagined villainy of goonswarm, which is neither here nor there. Let's try to stick to the topic.
Ankhesentapemkah Aliastra	Posted - 2008.05.22 08:52:00 - [62] Originally by: Papa Ina You also represent us as CSM and I'd like to remind you of that. And I'm perfectly willing to represent you guys. But that goes both ways, and also means that you lot should not disturb us CSMs in our activities. This accusation could easily have been made in a seperate thread, while we used this one to discuss the 3 other open positions. I'm asking you and your friends to use a seperate thread next time instead of swarming an existing one. Thank you.
hammyhamm GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.05.22 08:53:00 - [63] Originally by: LaVista Vista I have communicated with a few people, over the very SF ventrilo server, who attended the ventrilo session. And all of them claimed that goonswarm had a very heavy presence, and they kept talking crap and that they wereruining the conversation, by playing music. So I'm not solely basing my claim on who came forward with the claim. When I was on the Open TS, there were 8 Star fraction members, two uknowns, myself and a fellow goon (from merchi), So I may have joined the channel either before or after the shenanigans started. Eva - As for organised troll, There are a sum total of 5 or 6 individual goonswarm posters here out of an alliance of 4000ish. I think its safe to say that the probability of more than one goonswarm poster seeing a thread on a busy public forum within the space of four hours is pretty likely.
Hardin Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2008.05.22 09:01:00 - [64] My only comment on this issue would have to be the famous EVE meme Proof or STFU But seriously tone down the anti-Goon stuff. If they (or some third party present on this infamous 'chat') can provide evidence of Jade saying that he would stand down as CSM president then you will all end up with egg on your faces. So this really is a non-discussion until some evidence is presented... ----- Alliance Creation/Corp Expansion Services Advert

CCP Navigator C C P	Posted - 2008.05.22 09:29:00 - [65] Thread completely cleaned. Please stay on the subject at hand. Jade Constantine has been designated Chairperson due to the number of votes received and that ruling is final. Should Jade wish to comment on this matter then it is his decision to do so. Using this forum and thread to bash each other or goad and harangue other players will result in a warning or ban. Navigator Community Representative CCP Games, EVE Online Email / Netfang

Ankhesentapemkah Aliastra	Posted - 2008.05.22 09:32:00 - [66] Thank you Navigator. I applied for Secretary or Vice Secretary, for the record. --- Consider voting for me in the CSM elections. Click the banner to watch the campaign movie.
LASER WATCHER GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.05.22 09:33:00 - [67] During your discussions on your open ventrilo session, you promised that if you were to gain the Chairman position, you would immediately relinquish the position and institute a vote among the council members to pick a chairman. Are you still holding this view or are you reneging on your election promises? Will this set the tone for time to come? _____
LaVista Vista Conservative Shenanigans Party	Posted - 2008.05.22 09:34:00 - [68] For the record, I volunteered for vice-chairman.
LaVista Vista Conservative Shenanigans Party	Posted - 2008.05.22 09:35:00 - [69] Originally by: LASER WATCHER During your discussions on your open ventrilo session, you promised that if you were to gain the Chairman position, you would immediately relinquish the position and institute a vote among the council members to pick a chairman. Are you still holding this view or are you reneging on your election promises? Will this set the tone for time to come? Originally by: CCP Navigator Please stay on the subject at hand. Jade Constantine has been designated Chairperson due to the number of votes received and that ruling is final. Please follow what Navigator said. If you want to discuss this, please make a seperate thread.
Waterfowl Democracy The Ministry of Indigenous Affairs GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.05.22 09:36:00 - [70] Originally by: LaVista Vista Originally by: LASER WATCHER During your discussions on your open ventrilo session, you promised that if you were to gain the Chairman position, you would immediately relinquish the position and institute a vote among the council members to pick a chairman. Are you still holding this view or are you reneging on your election promises? Will this set the tone for time to come? Originally by: CCP Navigator Please stay on the subject at hand. Jade Constantine has been designated Chairperson due to the number of votes received and that ruling is final. Please follow what Navigator said. If you want to discuss this, please make a seperate thread. Please stay ontopic in this thread. However, there was a seperate thread for discussion of this issue and it was locked without reason.

LASER WATCHER GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.05.22 09:37:00 - [71] Originally by: LaVista Vista Originally by: LASER WATCHER During your discussions on your open ventrilo session, you promised that if you were to gain the Chairman position, you would immediately relinquish the position and institute a vote among the council members to pick a chairman. Are you still holding this view or are you reneging on your election promises? Will this set the tone for time to come? Originally by: CCP Navigator Please stay on the subject at hand. Jade Constantine has been designated Chairperson due to the number of votes received and that ruling is final. Please follow what Navigator said. If you want to discuss this, please make a seperate thread. I am staying on topic, as it is about something Jade had said previously about his position. Please do not goad me, as per CCP Navigator. _____

CCP Navigator C C P	Posted - 2008.05.22 09:44:00 - [72] Originally by: LASER WATCHER During your discussions on your open ventrilo session, you promised that if you were to gain the Chairman position, you would immediately relinquish the position and institute a vote among the council members to pick a chairman. Are you still holding this view or are you reneging on your election promises? Will this set the tone for time to come? Guys and girls, I am letting this one question stay and will be removing further replies on this subject until such time as Jade replies. This thread is for the election of a Vice Chairman, Secretary and Vice Secretary and this should be the main meat of the thread. I appreciate you all have questions that require answers but hi-jacking another thread to do so is not very helpful. Navigator Community Representative CCP Games, EVE Online Email / Netfang

Waterfowl Democracy The Ministry of Indigenous Affairs GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.05.22 09:46:00 - [73] Originally by: CCP Navigator Guys and girls, I am letting this one question stay and will be removing further replies on this subject until such time as Jade replies. This thread is for the election of a Vice Chairman, Secretary and Vice Secretary and this should be the main meat of the thread. I appreciate you all have questions that require answers but hi-jacking another thread to do so is not very helpful. A perfectly reasonable suggestion. Except for the fact that you locked my thread specifically about the issue with no reason given. HYPOCRISY IN ACTION MY FRIEND. ~~~~Waterfowl Democracy, DEFENDER OF DEMOCRACY
Serenity Steele Dynamic Data Distribution Ministry of Information	Posted - 2008.05.22 09:48:00 - [74] Jade, please put me down for Vice Chairman and Secretary. At this stage, I'd say both are a good match for my skills, probably with a leaning towards Vice Chairman. IMO it's important that the CSM as a group have a discussion about expectations for each role before taking a vote on the positions. Eg. I have some pretty explicit expectations (as I'm sure others do) around the quality, timing and distribution of transcripts/reporting (Secretary) and ground rules for constructive/civil/technological communication within the CSM. ≡v≡ Strategic Maps now in Eve-Online Store

CCP Navigator C C P	Posted - 2008.05.22 09:51:00 - [75] Originally by: Waterfowl Democracy Originally by: CCP Navigator Guys and girls, I am letting this one question stay and will be removing further replies on this subject until such time as Jade replies. This thread is for the election of a Vice Chairman, Secretary and Vice Secretary and this should be the main meat of the thread. I appreciate you all have questions that require answers but hi-jacking another thread to do so is not very helpful. A perfectly reasonable suggestion. Except for the fact that you locked my thread specifically about the issue with no reason given. HYPOCRISY IN ACTION MY FRIEND. ~~~~Waterfowl Democracy, DEFENDER OF DEMOCRACY Waterfowl, Your OP implied we had deleted Jade's thread which was not the case and was locked in kind. You are more than welcome to start a thread on a given subject as long as it stays within the forum rules (i.e Constructive content, not discussing moderation in the first line etc) Navigator Community Representative CCP Games, EVE Online Email / Netfang

Waterfowl Democracy The Ministry of Indigenous Affairs GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.05.22 10:15:00 - [76] Edited by: Waterfowl Democracy on 22/05/2008 10:17:17 Originally by: CCP Navigator Originally by: Waterfowl Democracy Originally by: CCP Navigator Guys and girls, I am letting this one question stay and will be removing further replies on this subject until such time as Jade replies. This thread is for the election of a Vice Chairman, Secretary and Vice Secretary and this should be the main meat of the thread. I appreciate you all have questions that require answers but hi-jacking another thread to do so is not very helpful. A perfectly reasonable suggestion. Except for the fact that you locked my thread specifically about the issue with no reason given. HYPOCRISY IN ACTION MY FRIEND. ~~~~Waterfowl Democracy, DEFENDER OF DEMOCRACY Waterfowl, Your OP implied we had deleted Jade's thread which was not the case and was locked in kind. You are more than welcome to start a thread on a given subject as long as it stays within the forum rules (i.e Constructive content, not discussing moderation in the first line etc) Perhaps I will let Jade respond in this thread instead. Hope he wakes up soon, I am waiting with baited breath for his response which is certain to be a lot of words. ,.-~¦¿»¿`+~-.+-(_WaTeRf0vvL dEm0cRaCy_)-,.-~¦¿»¿`+~-.+ DEFENDER OF DEMOCRACY PRESIDENT OF THE DEMOCRATIC DEFENDERS NO VOTES FOR THE STUPID
Kis Kecheri	Posted - 2008.05.22 11:04:00 - [77] Edited by: Kis Kecheri on 22/05/2008 11:14:11 An easy situation for Jade, not the thorn hoped for by the goons. It can be handled with minimum friction as shown below. The first order of business has been set by CCP as Council position election. Personally initiated motions, i.e., re-voting on Chairman, must wait. Next, after positions are set, Jade can resign and start the re-vote for Chairman. The results are somewhat predictable. Goons vote no. The other members vote to keep Jade, if only to show up the goons. Especially the ones in this thread.
Waterfowl Democracy The Ministry of Indigenous Affairs GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.05.22 11:38:00 - [78] Originally by: Kis Kecheri Edited by: Kis Kecheri on 22/05/2008 11:20:29 Edited by: Kis Kecheri on 22/05/2008 11:20:08 An easy situation for Jade, not the thorn hoped for by the goons. It can be handled with minimum friction as shown below. The first order of business has been set by CCP as Council position election. Personally initiated motions, i.e., re-voting on Chairman, must wait. Next, after positions are set, Jade can resign and start the re-vote for Chairman. The results are somewhat predictable. Goons vote no. The other members vote to keep Jade, if only to show up the goons. Especially the ones in this thread. The animosity perpetrated by the goons toward Jade and the other CSM elected in this and other threads will likely make them more cohesive against attacks from inside or out. Please attempt to stay on topic in this thread as CCP Navigator asked.
hammyhamm GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.05.22 11:48:00 - [79] Originally by: LASER WATCHER During your discussions on your open ventrilo session, you promised that if you were to gain the Chairman position, you would immediately relinquish the position and institute a vote among the council members to pick a chairman. Are you still holding this view or are you reneging on your election promises? Will this set the tone for time to come? You stole my entire first post from before the thread was cleaned My question still stands, however.
Jade Constantine Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2008.05.22 12:12:00 - [80] Edited by: Jade Constantine on 22/05/2008 12:12:53 Originally by: Kis Kecheri An easy situation for Jade, not the thorn hoped for by the goons. It can be handled with minimum friction as shown below. The first order of business has been set by CCP as Council position election. Personally initiated motions, i.e., re-voting on Chairman, must wait. Next, after positions are set, Jade can resign and start the re-vote for Chairman. The results are somewhat predictable. Goons vote no. The other members vote to keep Jade, if only to show up the goons. Especially the ones in this thread. The animosity perpetrated by the goons toward Jade and the other CSM elected in this and other threads will likely make them more cohesive against attacks from inside or out. Morning everyone! Yep, I decided after consultation that the best route forward if I actually want to change the constitution from making the chairman position an automatic post to an elected post was to function as stand-in chairman initially and propose a measure myself for the agenda. This proposal is going to need the seven-day discussion period and 5/9 CSM votes to make the formal agenda for Iceland (as does any other measure). Anybody that desires further debate on that subject is welcome to contribute on the topic when it's formally-raised in the appropriate forum section. But for now we will follow the process we signed up to follow - hence I'm organizing the vote for the positions currently electable on the CSM (Vice-chair, Secretary, Vice-Secretary) according to the existing constitution. At this time we have the following interest declared: Vice President: Serenity, LaVista Secretary: Serenity, Ankhesentapemkah Vice Secretary: Ankhesentapemkah I'm going to keep checking my eve-mail today (and this forum) and I'd invite all candidates to an informal discussion in-game at 22:00 hours eve time tonight - where we'll cover the expectations and requirements in more depth. After this I'll finalize the list of applicants and we'll cast our votes over the next 24 hours (by eve-mail) and I'll publish the outcome in the appropriate forum. All the best. CSM Manifesto 2008 \| Destroy Outposts!

Waterfowl Democracy The Ministry of Indigenous Affairs GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.05.22 12:21:00 - [81] It is unfortunate that Jade has decided to go back upon his words after "consultation" (consultation with whom I must ask). It is interesting to note that reading the CSM.pdf document as written it is not possible to step down as chair after the selection of vices. "By default, the Representative with the highest vote tally is awarded with the responsibilities of Chairman for the CSM . Within three days of the general election, the Representatives must hold an internal vote to determine a Vice-Chairman, Secretary, and V ice-Secretary. Failure to hold this vote, or if the vote is inconclusive, awards ôgrantingö authority to the Chairman, who may then appoint council members to the other positions as he or she sees fit. If the Chairman decides to step down or rescind his responsibility during this time for any reason, a vote must be held among Representatives to replace him." As I'm sure that Jade is aware of this I wonder what he proposed to do after the Vices were elected and it became clear that within the rules he cannot step down. Jade, please make a choice, step down NOW and a vote will be held for the CSM Chair or fail to step down and show that you can misrepresented yourself during the election.
Kis Kecheri	Posted - 2008.05.22 12:23:00 - [82] Originally by: Waterfowl Democracy It is unfortunate that Jade has decided to go back upon his words after "consultation" (consultation with whom I must ask). It is interesting to note that reading the CSM.pdf document as written it is not possible to step down as chair after the selection of vices. "By default, the Representative with the highest vote tally is awarded with the responsibilities of Chairman for the CSM . Within three days of the general election, the Representatives must hold an internal vote to determine a Vice-Chairman, Secretary, and V ice-Secretary. Failure to hold this vote, or if the vote is inconclusive, awards ôgrantingö authority to the Chairman, who may then appoint council members to the other positions as he or she sees fit. If the Chairman decides to step down or rescind his responsibility during this time for any reason, a vote must be held among Representatives to replace him." As I'm sure that Jade is aware of this I wonder what he proposed to do after the Vices were elected and it became clear that within the rules he cannot step down. Jade, please make a choice, step down NOW and a vote will be held for the CSM Chair or fail to step down and show that you can misrepresented yourself during the election. Please attempt to stay on topic in this thread as CCP Navigator asked.
Waterfowl Democracy The Ministry of Indigenous Affairs GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.05.22 12:24:00 - [83] Originally by: Kis Kecheri Please attempt to stay on topic in this thread as CCP Navigator asked. I am responding to Jade's post relating to a matter of procedure in the CSM process. If you have a personal grievance with me I suggest you take it up via evemails so that I may freely ignore you.
Jade Constantine Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2008.05.22 12:25:00 - [84] Edited by: Jade Constantine on 22/05/2008 12:25:29 Originally by: Waterfowl Democracy Jade, please make a choice Done it. I've chosen to follow the agreed process for making changes to the constitution. Now you can make a choice Waterfowl, you can choose to do as I've asked and register your opinions when the matter comes up for formal discussion in CSM issue thread. Or you can choose to continue attempting to de-rail a thread on a different subject. Any which way your question is answered, have a nice day. CSM Manifesto 2008 \| Destroy Outposts!

CCP Navigator C C P	Posted - 2008.05.22 12:34:00 - [85] Jade has answered the question so please keep all further posts on the topic at hand, namely the election of a Vice Chairperson, Secretary and Vice Secretary. Navigator Community Representative CCP Games, EVE Online Email / Netfang

Waterfowl Democracy The Ministry of Indigenous Affairs GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.05.22 12:37:00 - [86] Edited by: Waterfowl Democracy on 22/05/2008 12:37:40 ^^^ CCP Navigator, this is a topic that deserves discussion and if you will not allow it in this thread I ask that you copy the relevent posts to a new thread for the discussion of this topic. Originally by: Jade Constantine Edited by: Jade Constantine on 22/05/2008 12:25:29 Originally by: Waterfowl Democracy Jade, please make a choice Done it. I've chosen to follow the agreed process for making changes to the constitution. Now you can make a choice Waterfowl, you can choose to do as I've asked and register your opinions when the matter comes up for formal discussion in CSM issue thread. Or you can choose to continue attempting to de-rail a thread on a different subject. Any which way your question is answered, have a nice day. You stated that after the first meeting in Iceland you would step down as Chair. Only after I showed you that this would not be possible did you declare your position completely. The proper course of action is in fact for you to step down as you claimed you would. Do you deny that you said that? Do you deny that changing your mind only after the voting has closed and you are elected is a gross betrayal of trust of those subscribers who voted for you? Why is it that you lack confidence in the CSM process to the degree that you claim you cannot pursue your agenda of changing the Chair election procedure without being Chair yourself? If the CSM is as flawed as you obviously think it is why did you run for election in the first place? Surely an outsider's position would be more effective in this regard. I'm sorry that you feel discussing a gross betrayal of trust by an elected representative is "off-topic". Do you know who else thought criticism of elected representatives was "off-topic"? Stalin. Personally I feel that with you as the CSM Chair the CSM will be without direction and unable to make progress on topics that concern the players of eve (those people you claim to serve).
Brachis Eve Liberation Force	Posted - 2008.05.22 12:39:00 - [87] Edited by: Brachis on 22/05/2008 12:40:51 The problem is that, as written, the document implies that should the Chairman choose to step down, the council cannot choose to reinstate him if he gets the popular vote. It says, very clearly, that it is only to replace the chairman. In this case, I'm sure Jade would like to be Chair, but wants to make sure that it is the will of the council. In this case, he would need to remain chair long enough to call the vote to have the process changed in such a manner that a vote could be done in this fashion. It makes total sense, and he is in no way backing down from his former statement. He is merely making sure that the process is completed exactly by the book. Edit: Please delete my post if it is out of place. If so, I apologize. "I do this with but one small ship and I am called a terrorist... you do it with an entire fleet and are called an Emperor."
Hugh Ruka Exploratio et Industria Morispatia	Posted - 2008.05.22 12:40:00 - [88] Originally by: Jade Constantine Morning everyone! Yep, I decided after consultation that the best route forward if I actually want to change the constitution from making the chairman position an automatic post to an elected post was to function as stand-in chairman initially and propose a measure myself for the agenda. This proposal is going to need the seven-day discussion period and 5/9 CSM votes to make the formal agenda for Iceland (as does any other measure). Anybody that desires further debate on that subject is welcome to contribute on the topic when it's formally-raised in the appropriate forum section. This is a very ellegant political move Jade. Playing by the rules and avoiding direct consequences thus far. You are leaving this to the official CCP process which takes time. No doubt one of the Goon representatives will show support for this and tries to cut down on the time needed to bring this to CCP. I think you have however no choice. If you don't step down, the Goons will be crying very loud till you do. And no matter how you are trying to avoid or play down the issue, they will scream foul. If the promise to step down as Chairman if elected is true (I don't know this other then this thread), all I can say is, it was a very unwise move you made there. Anyway good luck as Chairman so far. There seem to be difficult times ahead for you. --- SIG --- CSM: your support is needed !
Sunwillow Auryn	Posted - 2008.05.22 12:51:00 - [89] Edited by: Sunwillow Auryn on 22/05/2008 12:51:58 Originally by: Waterfowl Democracy I'm sorry that you feel discussing a gross betrayal of trust by an elected representative is "off-topic". Do you know who else thought criticism of elected representatives was "off-topic"? Stalin. Given that the topic in this instance is on the election of the non-chair positions (get that? NON-chair - let me say again - NOT THE CHAIRMAN), any discussion related to the chairman position is off topic. Do as CCP say - put it on another thread. It's not that hard to do.
Waterfowl Democracy The Ministry of Indigenous Affairs GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.05.22 12:53:00 - [90] Originally by: Sunwillow Auryn Given that the topic in this instance is on the election of the non-chair positions (get that? NON-chair - let me say again - NOT THE CHAIRMAN), any discussion related to the chairman position is off topic. Do as CCP say - put it on another thread. It's not that hard to do. Please stay ontopic in this thread.



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