Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 :: [one page] |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |

Leandro Salazar
The Blackguard Wolves
|
Posted - 2008.05.22 16:02:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Leandro Salazar on 23/05/2008 08:03:24 In the case of clear ridicule and disrespect expressed towards the CSM and EVE as a whole by members of their alliance, as well as the stated intent to disrupt EVE as game by said alliance, I would like to see the two GoonSwarm members on the CSM removed and replaced by the top backups, because the only thing I am confident they will do is make the work of the council harder and do their best to hurt EVE as a game.
Express support or discuss criticism of this idea here. Thank you.
DISCLAIMER: If you are not a Goon but intend to defend them, before you jump into this thread, brandishing your Sword of Righteousness +5, and defend the human rights of every Goon ever born and mark me as a rascist, fascist, murderer of democracy and public enemy #1, please note that this thread was a direct response to THIS one. Then think long and hard about the meaning of words like irony and parody...
Make suicide ganking more difficult!
|

LASER WATCHER
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.05.22 16:03:00 -
[2]
/signed _____
|

Uzuki Shootmenow
|
Posted - 2008.05.22 16:04:00 -
[3]
I support this idea.
Mainly, because GoonSwarm has openly admitted to the fact that they want to grief players out of this game, take it over and conquer it using any possible methods.
Also, I dont feel that members of an alliance, that openly supports scamming, meta-gaming and disrespectful behaviour towards other fellow eve players should represent those said players on the CSM.
|

Erotic Irony
0bsession
|
Posted - 2008.05.22 16:04:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Erotic Irony on 22/05/2008 16:04:24
Originally by: Leandro Salazar Edited by: Leandro Salazar on 22/05/2008 16:02:44 In the case of clear ridicule and disrespect expressed towards the CSM and EVE as a whole by members of their alliance, as well as the stated intent to disrupt EVE as game by said alliance, I would like to see the two GoonSwarm members on the CSM removed and replaced by the top backups, because the only thing I am confident they will do is make the work of the council harder and do their best to hurt EVE as a game.
Express support or discuss criticism of this idea here. Thank you.
Would supporting this exclude me from supporting the goon thread at the same time? This CSM thing is kinda confusing. ___ Eve Players are not very smart. Support Killmail Overhaul
|

Gorobom
|
Posted - 2008.05.22 16:10:00 -
[5]
I'm so confused.
|

Claire Lacombe
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.05.22 16:11:00 -
[6]
Subverting electoral systems by those who gain power seems like a good way to introduce credibility into such a fledgling system.
|

Moridrex
|
Posted - 2008.05.22 16:13:00 -
[7]
Full love and support. I feel Goons, especially after Jihadswarm, should not be allowed to near game mechanics. Bug reporting is fine. ;)
And I must say props to the Goon who supported this maybe I'll have more respect for you guys. ;)
|

Galactic Overlord
The Fantastically Pantless Sporkmen
|
Posted - 2008.05.22 16:14:00 -
[8]
Are goons annoying? Yes. Have they done more for the benefit of the game then any other alliance ever? Yes. If you don't believe it look past your bias and do some research, yeah the truth hurts.
NO SUPPORT
|

Bane Glorious
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.05.22 16:15:00 -
[9]
What a wonderful thread. |

Nathan Stahn
|
Posted - 2008.05.22 16:16:00 -
[10]
DO NOT SUPPORT
|
|

Academion
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.05.22 16:16:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Academion on 22/05/2008 16:17:24 I would like to support this vote of no confidence, but append a vote of no confidence in the other CSM's and the alternate CSM's as well as in CCP in general and ask for their removal from the game's development.
|

Patripassion
|
Posted - 2008.05.22 16:17:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Moridrex Full love and support. I feel Goons, especially after Jihadswarm, should not be allowed to near game mechanics. Bug reporting is fine. ;)
And I must say props to the Goon who supported this maybe I'll have more respect for you guys. ;)
A good way to stop this might be to not let anybody with negative sec status have a vote in the CSM council or in this forum!
|

Dingi223
|
Posted - 2008.05.22 16:18:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Academion Edited by: Academion on 22/05/2008 16:17:24 I would like to support this vote of no confidence, but append a vote of no confidence in the other CSM's and the alternate CSM's as well as in CCP in general and ask for their removal from the game's development.
Posts like this, even sarcastic, make me support this vote, even though I know it'll never happen.
|

Mike Huckabee
GoonFleet
|
Posted - 2008.05.22 16:21:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Academion Edited by: Academion on 22/05/2008 16:17:24 I would like to support this vote of no confidence, but append a vote of no confidence in the other CSM's and the alternate CSM's as well as in CCP in general and ask for their removal from the game's development.
I am Mike Huckabee and I approve of this message.
|

Erotic Irony
0bsession
|
Posted - 2008.05.22 16:21:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Patripassion
Originally by: Moridrex Full love and support. I feel Goons, especially after Jihadswarm, should not be allowed to near game mechanics. Bug reporting is fine. ;)
And I must say props to the Goon who supported this maybe I'll have more respect for you guys. ;)
A good way to stop this might be to not let anybody with negative sec status have a vote in the CSM council or in this forum!
Yellow star to characterize these people at a distance would be appropriate as well. ___ Eve Players are not very smart. Support Killmail Overhaul
|

schneirder
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.05.22 16:21:00 -
[16]
Members of Goonfleet have done nothing but damage this game, and I support this.
|

Shenko Minara
|
Posted - 2008.05.22 16:22:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Leandro Salazar Edited by: Leandro Salazar on 22/05/2008 16:02:44 In the case of clear ridicule and disrespect expressed towards the CSM and EVE as a whole by members of their alliance, as well as the stated intent to disrupt EVE as game by said alliance, I would like to see the two GoonSwarm members on the CSM removed and replaced by the top backups, because the only thing I am confident they will do is make the work of the council harder and do their best to hurt EVE as a game.
Express support or discuss criticism of this idea here. Thank you.
I was going to say the same thing only about Jade Constantine. Please take his CSM status away as given half a chance he will wreck this game for everyone that doesn't enjoy dressing up as orcs or anime characters. -- 99% of Eve-o posters should stop posting. This probably includes me, but definitely includes you. |

Sergio Ling
Veto.
|
Posted - 2008.05.22 16:26:00 -
[18]
I wish there was a thumbs down option.
Goon candidates represent the Goon demographic, if nothing else. _
BET ISK ON ANYTHING AT ALL |

Phrixus Zephyr
Prospero Incorperated
|
Posted - 2008.05.22 16:28:00 -
[19]
You clearly have no idea of what SA is like. Yes, alot of it is lolgoons, but they're more than capable of intelligent discussion.
See forums like D&D, instead of making rediculous statements based on alliance and hearsay.
(Yes, i am also well aware that the first person to smack me will proberbly be a Goon.)
|

Gorobom
|
Posted - 2008.05.22 16:35:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Phrixus Zephyr You clearly have no idea of what SA is like. Yes, alot of it is lolgoons, but they're more than capable of intelligent discussion.
See forums like D&D, instead of making rediculous statements based on alliance and hearsay.
(Yes, i am also well aware that the first person to smack me will proberbly be a Goon.)
He can just look at other posts in this very forum. He already signed some started by goons.
|
|

Phrixus Zephyr
Prospero Incorperated
|
Posted - 2008.05.22 16:43:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Gorobom
Originally by: Phrixus Zephyr You clearly have no idea of what SA is like. Yes, alot of it is lolgoons, but they're more than capable of intelligent discussion.
See forums like D&D, instead of making rediculous statements based on alliance and hearsay.
(Yes, i am also well aware that the first person to smack me will proberbly be a Goon.)
He can just look at other posts in this very forum. He already signed some started by goons.
Yes and I can also form an opinion of a race/nation of people based on the actions of a few aswell.
Or, you can take my suggestion and go look at SA and find plenty of intelligent discusion that would put anything eve-o has on offer to shame.
|

Heartstone
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
|
Posted - 2008.05.22 16:46:00 -
[22]
Votes have been cast. Don't like it? Vote for someone else next time. Didn't vote? STFU.
---
|

Treelox
Market Jihadist Revolutionary Party
|
Posted - 2008.05.22 16:52:00 -
[23]
look mom....I'm posting in a CAOD thread....
ohh wait a second....
/me runs off confused and crying, in search of more belly button lint for meditation and contempation focus. --
|

Myk Taison
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.05.22 16:58:00 -
[24]
Don't blame me, I voted for Daveydweeb.
Haha not really who would vote for that pubbie****got.
|

Nexus Wolfguard
|
Posted - 2008.05.22 17:06:00 -
[25]
DO NOT SUPPORT
I was surprised MORE goonswarm members weren't elected. Seeing as how they are the largest alliance in EVE, they represent a significant portion of the player base, and removing the members of the council would introduce unnecessary bias.
Seeing as how it is a ADVISEMENT council, I believe CCP will sort out which information to use, but having someone who wants to take over EVE on the council would definitely bring up some good points which would not otherwise enter discussion.
|

Gorobom
|
Posted - 2008.05.22 17:07:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Phrixus Zephyr
Originally by: Gorobom
Originally by: Phrixus Zephyr You clearly have no idea of what SA is like. Yes, alot of it is lolgoons, but they're more than capable of intelligent discussion.
See forums like D&D, instead of making rediculous statements based on alliance and hearsay.
(Yes, i am also well aware that the first person to smack me will proberbly be a Goon.)
He can just look at other posts in this very forum. He already signed some started by goons.
Yes and I can also form an opinion of a race/nation of people based on the actions of a few aswell.
Or, you can take my suggestion and go look at SA and find plenty of intelligent discusion that would put anything eve-o has on offer to shame.
You misunderstood me.
|

Yorda
Battlestars GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.05.22 17:10:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Leandro Salazar Edited by: Leandro Salazar on 22/05/2008 16:02:44 In the case of clear ridicule and disrespect expressed towards the CSM and EVE as a whole by members of their alliance, as well as the stated intent to disrupt EVE as game by said alliance, I would like to see the two GoonSwarm members on the CSM removed and replaced by the top backups, because the only thing I am confident they will do is make the work of the council harder and do their best to hurt EVE as a game.
Express support or discuss criticism of this idea here. Thank you.
Yes, clearly goon votes shouldn't count because you dont like them.
Originally by: nlewis jammers are the meatshield [Bob] wish their pets were
|

Avalira
Pax Minor Expiscor Pario Addo
|
Posted - 2008.05.22 17:13:00 -
[28]
Do not support.
I don't care whether they are in BoB, Goons, Minmatar ***-rights league or whatever. What is important is what the person advocates and that he sticks with his candidacy promises. We vote for the person behind the computer, not the character they play.
------------- Selling the following: Probe BPC's ARK JF 4.5b
|

Cailais
VITOC
|
Posted - 2008.05.22 17:14:00 -
[29]
Not supported - if you didnt want them in you should have mobilised the vote towards other candidates.
The votes complete - tough.
C.
VITOC - Amarr Corp for Faction Warfare! |

Will Hunter
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.05.22 17:19:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Will Hunter on 22/05/2008 17:20:56
Originally by: Leandro Salazar Edited by: Leandro Salazar on 22/05/2008 16:02:44 In the case of clear ridicule and disrespect expressed towards the CSM and EVE as a whole by members of their alliance, as well as the stated intent to disrupt EVE as game by said alliance, I would like to see the two GoonSwarm members on the CSM removed and replaced by the top backups, because the only thing I am confident they will do is make the work of the council harder and do their best to hurt EVE as a game.
Express support or discuss criticism of this idea here. Thank you.
supporting this terrible empire pubbie idea (o_o)
|
|

Silence Duegood
|
Posted - 2008.05.22 17:20:00 -
[31]
/signed
Goons and their behaviour have no place on the CSM board.
|

Phrixus Zephyr
Prospero Incorperated
|
Posted - 2008.05.22 17:23:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Gorobom
Originally by: Phrixus Zephyr
Originally by: Gorobom
Originally by: Phrixus Zephyr You clearly have no idea of what SA is like. Yes, alot of it is lolgoons, but they're more than capable of intelligent discussion.
See forums like D&D, instead of making rediculous statements based on alliance and hearsay.
(Yes, i am also well aware that the first person to smack me will proberbly be a Goon.)
He can just look at other posts in this very forum. He already signed some started by goons.
Yes and I can also form an opinion of a race/nation of people based on the actions of a few aswell.
Or, you can take my suggestion and go look at SA and find plenty of intelligent discusion that would put anything eve-o has on offer to shame.
You misunderstood me.
Hmmm. Re-reading, yes i did. My apologies.
|

Siona Windweaver
|
Posted - 2008.05.22 17:24:00 -
[33]
I support this idea.
|

Ispitane
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.05.22 17:37:00 -
[34]
Perhaps Goons, being lesser mortals, should only be awarded three fifths of a vote each?
|

Revan Neferis
Bloodveil BLOOD EMPIRE
|
Posted - 2008.05.22 17:38:00 -
[35]
No. Liking or disliking they are paying members with legitimate accounts and were elected by the same process and rules as all other candidates.
Actually, this topic goes to show how CSM is bind to work.... 
Elections were done, people should just move on with the results and try to at least show some maturity in the matter.
Thumbs down.
|

Esmenet
|
Posted - 2008.05.22 17:40:00 -
[36]
Add ankehemepteksahs to the list of undesireables and i give you a thumbs up.
|

Sally Bestonge
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.05.22 17:41:00 -
[37]
sup thread where is jade he doesn't like he, he should be posting here.
|

Fayt Leingod
Power Industries
|
Posted - 2008.05.22 17:43:00 -
[38]
the issue here is not goons or any alliance. the major issue is that some of the council members dont seem to realize that there alliance and corp tag means nothing. their there for our binfit as the player base not there alliance.
|

Seiver D'amross
Subach-Tech Warp to Desktop
|
Posted - 2008.05.22 17:44:00 -
[39]
damn my alt being default thats ^ me _____________________________________________________ I shal stand tall and shake the heavens with my power |

Trader Man
|
Posted - 2008.05.22 17:48:00 -
[40]
Totally support the idea, if you think about the whole election then obviously two goons was a rigged election.
In any proper ellection there is a notion of majority voters participating, CCP claims that there total of around 200k acounts, all in all only around 10k ppl participated, that means only approximatelly 5% of eve population participated.
Lets take this analysis a bit further, according to official statistic average age of participant was around 1,5 game time, that implies that for sure an average participant is totally aware of obnoxiously stupid behavior of goonswarm people, hence the probability of him voting for goonswarm is very low !UNLESS! he is goonswarm member himself.
Goonswarm is a very big and active alliance, they could easily encourage their fellow members on internal forums to vote for their candidates.
This situation would not have occured in the first place if rate of participation was much higher. Although I do realise that it is very difficult to speculate about potential ellection outcome, however I would forecast that if rate of participation was sufficiently high then none of goonswarm members would have been elected.
Maybe an appropriate solution would be to re-run the ellection, but this time introduce some sort of encouragement policy to induce more ppl to vote (carrot cake maybe?)
This way electorate base which be much more representative and will reflect true will of eve comunity !
|
|

Hrin
Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.05.22 17:48:00 -
[41]
Goonswarm represents a clear and present danger to all Eve. Are you a bad enough dude to support this issue?
      
|

Gorobom
|
Posted - 2008.05.22 17:51:00 -
[42]
Edited by: Gorobom on 22/05/2008 17:53:02
Originally by: Trader Man Totally support the idea, if you think about the whole election then obviously two goons was a rigged election.
In any proper ellection there is a notion of majority voters participating, CCP claims that there total of around 200k acounts, all in all only around 10k ppl participated, that means only approximatelly 5% of eve population participated.
Lets take this analysis a bit further, according to official statistic average age of participant was around 1,5 game time, that implies that for sure an average participant is totally aware of obnoxiously stupid behavior of goonswarm people, hence the probability of him voting for goonswarm is very low !UNLESS! he is goonswarm member himself.
Goonswarm is a very big and active alliance, they could easily encourage their fellow members on internal forums to vote for their candidates.
This situation would not have occured in the first place if rate of participation was much higher. Although I do realise that it is very difficult to speculate about potential ellection outcome, however I would forecast that if rate of participation was sufficiently high then none of goonswarm members would have been elected.
Maybe an appropriate solution would be to re-run the ellection, but this time introduce some sort of encouragement policy to induce more ppl to vote (carrot cake maybe?)
This way electorate base which be much more representative and will reflect true will of eve comunity !
It already does. It reflects that the "eve comunity" doesn't care about CSM, while Goonswarm does. It reflects that the "eve comunity's true will" is that of not bothering with the game much, while Goonswarm did enough so that they got two members in CSM.
This is what the elections reflect. If the "eve comunity" cared as much as Goons did, then the results would be different. But they didn't. Why should they be psychologically forced to vote? Not every goon voted either.
The majority of people posting here serious issues so far have been goonswarm members. Some of these issues have been supported by anti-goon members. The two Goon members of the CSM have been extremely serious about it so far.
|

Tolis Irithel
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
|
Posted - 2008.05.22 17:51:00 -
[43]
Edited by: Tolis Irithel on 22/05/2008 17:51:14 I've already stated my support for the concept of no-confidence votes in the other thread. For the same reasons set out there, I'll sign this thread; not because I support the removal of the Goonswarm members, but because I agree with the no-confidence idea.
Unfortunately, even real-life elections these days don't have majority turnout in all/many cases; elections here in England being an example of such. The real way to get more people to vote is to demonstrate that the CSM is a relevant entity; something that is in the hands of the community, CSM members and CCP.
Democracy is what you make of it. (Apologies, I've wandered off-topic)
|

Trader Man
|
Posted - 2008.05.22 17:59:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Gorobom
Originally by: Trader Man Totally support the idea, if you think about the whole election then obviously two goons was a rigged election.
In any proper ellection there is a notion of majority voters participating, CCP claims that there total of around 200k acounts, all in all only around 10k ppl participated, that means only approximatelly 5% of eve population participated.
Lets take this analysis a bit further, according to official statistic average age of participant was around 1,5 game time, that implies that for sure an average participant is totally aware of obnoxiously stupid behavior of goonswarm people, hence the probability of him voting for goonswarm is very low !UNLESS! he is goonswarm member himself.
Goonswarm is a very big and active alliance, they could easily encourage their fellow members on internal forums to vote for their candidates.
This situation would not have occured in the first place if rate of participation was much higher. Although I do realise that it is very difficult to speculate about potential ellection outcome, however I would forecast that if rate of participation was sufficiently high then none of goonswarm members would have been elected.
Maybe an appropriate solution would be to re-run the ellection, but this time introduce some sort of encouragement policy to induce more ppl to vote (carrot cake maybe?)
This way electorate base which be much more representative and will reflect true will of eve comunity !
It already does. It reflects that the "eve comunity" doesn't care about CSM, while Goonswarm does. It reflects that the "eve comunity's true will" is that of not bothering with the game much, while Goonswarm did enough so that they got two members in CSM.
This is what the elections reflect. If the "eve comunity" cared as much as Goons did, then the results would be different. But they didn't. Why should they be psychologically forced to vote? Not every goon voted either.
Clearly your logic is faulty here, if what you said was true, then decisions which CSM makes should ONLY be affecting that small group of ppl.
Imagine this, you got a town - there are 1000 ppl living in this town, during maoyr ellections only mayor himself turned up and 5 of his friends, and everyone obviously voted for mayor. Does that mean that Mayor got right to make new laws which would affect the whole population? Obviously not.
If none else turned up for the ellection they indeed deem this exercise pointless and they do not need a mayor, hence mayor position should not be introduced in the first place.
If you observe any reasonably democratic country in the world, it would say in the constitution that ellections are NOT valid, unless certain % of population turns and unless that particular candidate gets a majority of votes in excess of some threshold.
How to solve this problem again - is to induce more ppl to participate in the ellection, give free trit or some other crap or smth like that and explain to people that there vote actually matters.
P.S. and don't tell me this bulcrap that 80% of goonswarm did not vote for goons swarm representative, that is obviously a lie !
|

schneirder
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.05.22 18:03:00 -
[45]
Edited by: schneirder on 22/05/2008 18:02:54
Originally by: Trader Man
Imagine this, you got a town - there are 1000 ppl living in this town, during maoyr ellections only mayor himself turned up and 5 of his friends, and everyone obviously voted for mayor. Does that mean that Mayor got right to make new laws which would affect the whole population? Obviously not.
If none else turned up for the ellection they indeed deem this exercise pointless and they do not need a mayor, hence mayor position should not be introduced in the first place.
I don't think you "get" democracy. If you don't vote (and a spoiled ballot or otherwise vote of no), then you don't get to complain about the outcome. If you don't want a 'Mayor', then vote in a fashion that demonstrates so.
|

Trader Man
|
Posted - 2008.05.22 18:05:00 -
[46]
Edited by: Trader Man on 22/05/2008 18:05:35
Originally by: schneirder Edited by: schneirder on 22/05/2008 18:02:54
Originally by: Trader Man
Imagine this, you got a town - there are 1000 ppl living in this town, during maoyr ellections only mayor himself turned up and 5 of his friends, and everyone obviously voted for mayor. Does that mean that Mayor got right to make new laws which would affect the whole population? Obviously not.
If none else turned up for the ellection they indeed deem this exercise pointless and they do not need a mayor, hence mayor position should not be introduced in the first place.
I don't think you "get" democracy. If you don't vote (and a spoiled ballot or otherwise vote of no), then you don't get to complain about the outcome. If you don't want a 'Mayor', then vote in a fashion that demonstrates so.
Thats a classic comment in the tradition of goonswarm , it demonstrates total inability to follow your opponent logic and bring reasonable argument to counter it lol
|

Ispitane
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.05.22 18:05:00 -
[47]
Quote: If you observe any reasonably democratic country in the world, it would say in the constitution that ellections are NOT valid, unless certain % of population turns and unless that particular candidate gets a majority of votes in excess of some threshold.
Let's take the United Kingdom, which (rigging of postal votes aside) is somewhat democratic. Please find something somewhere on www.statutelaw.gov.uk that specifies a minimum number of votes for the election of an MP to be valid.
|

Esmenet
|
Posted - 2008.05.22 18:06:00 -
[48]
Originally by: schneirder Edited by: schneirder on 22/05/2008 18:02:54
Originally by: Trader Man
Imagine this, you got a town - there are 1000 ppl living in this town, during maoyr ellections only mayor himself turned up and 5 of his friends, and everyone obviously voted for mayor. Does that mean that Mayor got right to make new laws which would affect the whole population? Obviously not.
If none else turned up for the ellection they indeed deem this exercise pointless and they do not need a mayor, hence mayor position should not be introduced in the first place.
I don't think you "get" democracy. If you don't vote (and a spoiled ballot or otherwise vote of no), then you don't get to complain about the outcome. If you don't want a 'Mayor', then vote in a fashion that demonstrates so.
This isnt a democracy though. Its more like an oligarchy supported by a puppet goverment.
|

Gorobom
|
Posted - 2008.05.22 18:08:00 -
[49]
Edited by: Gorobom on 22/05/2008 18:21:41
Originally by: Trader Man
Clearly your logic is faulty here, if what you said was true, then decisions which CSM makes should ONLY be affecting that small group of ppl.
(words)
P.S. and don't tell me this bulcrap that 80% of goonswarm did not vote for goons swarm representative, that is obviously a lie !
My logic is not faulty, it simply represents the truth. The people that didn't vote didn't care about it. Period. If they did care, they would have voted. If they cared and didn't vote, they did so on their own, and this represents their "true will". There's no complicated logic in this.
Why should the votes of people who don't care about the elections count more than of the people who cared enough to get organized about it, and currently are posting the majority of serious threads here? By forcing them to post, you're actually trying to induce the elections favorable to yourself in an artificial way. I can guarantee you that if EVERYONE from GS and our allies were forced to vote, the outcome would be the same.
Also this is a game, not a town. This is not real life politics. People aren't gonna die because of hospitals not working.
Anyway, 11% of EVE Population voted. Goonswarm represents around 4% of EVE Population. Summing up with our allies (which everyone forgets about, they also voted) it adds up to around 15% of EVE Population, or 1/6. Consider now the chinese farmers who absolutely don't care about this at all. GS got around 1/5th of the CSM, which sounds like a fair number all things considered. I'm sure if RA/TCF/BoB had people up there, we would have got only one member, not two. At the end of the day GS is representing the exactly same amount of people it should.
The majority of people in GS didn't actually vote for Darius, they voted for Bane. Darius got a lot of his votes from other alliances.
When I say 15% of EVE players, I'm being extra nice, because I'm considering only the people who actively share the same politic interests as goonswarm. In practice, you could say some of our enemies or neutral people also share the same interests when it comes down to fixing the game, since it's all 0.0, and there aren't many who cares about it in the CSM. The amount of people in 0.0 alliances is well above that.
But since there's no official support from them, I leave that to your imagination. It doesn't nullify the previous paragraphs though.
Edit: By the way, I never said "80%". You're creating things. The truth is that a lot of goons didn't vote, some goons voted for Goumindong or other people, some very few goons actually comedy-voted to Jade or Eva Jobse, and the majority of goons that voted voted for Bane. Darius got his votes from other alliances. This is all there is to it.
Edit 2: If you got a town where 99.5% of the population don't care about the elections, something is incredibly wrong, and having the mayor being able to dictate the rules is definitely not the core of the problem.
At the end of the day, the truth is that about 3000 accounts voted for GS members (let's not forget the ones that didn't get in) and Bane and Darius got in. That's a lot of very valid votes, more votes than whoever you voted on got. What you guys are screaming is basically "don't let the black people vote! They don't have souls and have been on horrid wars in Africa or something.
|

Piitaq
19th Star Logistics
|
Posted - 2008.05.22 18:14:00 -
[50]
Goonswarm or not, the people have been voted in, therefore they should stay in, until next election.
People have the ones representing them they deserve, you people should have thought about it, when voting.
Ofcourse if electees dont attend the meetings, or in other ways dont do their job. They should be removed, but I do not think such things should or could be done preemptive.
|
|

Herschel Yamamoto
Bloodmoney Incorporated
|
Posted - 2008.05.22 18:15:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Ispitane Perhaps Goons, being lesser mortals, should only be awarded three fifths of a vote each?
Now now, if you're going to make that joke then you have to follow it through. Every Goon counts for 3/5, but the Goons themselves don't get to cast those votes, it just ups each RA vote proportionally. ------------------ Fix the forums! |

Tolis Irithel
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
|
Posted - 2008.05.22 18:21:00 -
[52]
One thing I haven't seen mentioned in many places within the various CSM-oriented debates concerning voting turnout etc.
A lot of emphasis has been placed on 0.0-related issues not being given appropriate representation on the CSM committee. Now, forgive me if I'm wrong here, but...
1) Take a tight assumption (which I don't agree with) that the GoonSwarm CSM members, and only the GoonSwarm CSM members, are representing 0.0 interests). This represents 2/9, or c. 22% of the CSM.
2) According to the second economic report produced by CCP, only 19% of the "active accounts" within EVE (that moved system) entered 0.0.
Given that 22% > 19%, I *must* be missing something. As much for my own peace of mind as anything else, I'd quite like to know what it is.
|

Herschel Yamamoto
Bloodmoney Incorporated
|
Posted - 2008.05.22 18:24:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Tolis Irithel One thing I haven't seen mentioned in many places within the various CSM-oriented debates concerning voting turnout etc.
A lot of emphasis has been placed on 0.0-related issues not being given appropriate representation on the CSM committee. Now, forgive me if I'm wrong here, but...
1) Take a tight assumption (which I don't agree with) that the GoonSwarm CSM members, and only the GoonSwarm CSM members, are representing 0.0 interests). This represents 2/9, or c. 22% of the CSM.
2) According to the second economic report produced by CCP, only 19% of the "active accounts" within EVE (that moved system) entered 0.0.
Given that 22% > 19%, I *must* be missing something. As much for my own peace of mind as anything else, I'd quite like to know what it is.
What you're missing is that people don't like to do a lot of research or math by nature, and that anything less than 100% support is inadequate for some. ------------------ Fix the forums! |

Gorobom
|
Posted - 2008.05.22 18:25:00 -
[54]
Edited by: Gorobom on 22/05/2008 18:31:40
Originally by: Tolis Irithel One thing I haven't seen mentioned in many places within the various CSM-oriented debates concerning voting turnout etc.
A lot of emphasis has been placed on 0.0-related issues not being given appropriate representation on the CSM committee. Now, forgive me if I'm wrong here, but...
1) Take a tight assumption (which I don't agree with) that the GoonSwarm CSM members, and only the GoonSwarm CSM members, are representing 0.0 interests). This represents 2/9, or c. 22% of the CSM.
2) According to the second economic report produced by CCP, only 19% of the "active accounts" within EVE (that moved system) entered 0.0.
Given that 22% > 19%, I *must* be missing something. As much for my own peace of mind as anything else, I'd quite like to know what it is.
Read my post above. I'll tell you what you're missing:
There's a lot more issues in 0.0 now than in high-sec. Furthermore, 0.0 players are forced against hard walls more often, making them more aware of the issues of EVE. This, combined with the fact 0.0 is mutable and entirely based on real-player politics, makes 0.0 players much more interested in voting and participating in those politics. This is what they've been doing constantly - politics. 0.0 alliances depend on it much more, since they actually "own" space. 0.0 Alliances are more organized usually, because you need to have well defined politics in order to sustain thousands and thousands of players.
To sum it up: Most High sec players never really faced serious, real politics in this game and care about it less than, say, your average GS member. This is reflected in the elections.
The second and more obvious clue: 22% is closer to 19% than 11%. Seriously.
I mean, you could say "Given that 11% < 19%, I *must* be missing something." and it would make more sense. You can't have exactly 19% of the representation in the CSM. It's either 11 or 22. 22 is closer to 19. Quite simple.
Something would be wrong if 100% of the players voted, but since most of them didn't care about the CSM for the aforementioned reasons (and others), this is how it turned out. 22 is still closer to 19 than 11 so I don't see this as something from another world.
Edit: Also, lots of people not related to 0.0 or our allies voted in GS members, because they presented real problems that no one else seemed to care about.
|

Tolis Irithel
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
|
Posted - 2008.05.22 18:31:00 -
[55]
Edited by: Tolis Irithel on 22/05/2008 18:32:05 I was never suggesting that the 22% was wrong, just for clarity; 22%>19% was not an argument that 22% was wrong. (I wouldn't make that argument because I don't agree that 22% is accurate, in any case.)
Fair enough though, you make perfectly good and valid points as to why members of large alliances may be considered to have more knowledge of the problems being discussed. I for one am quite happy with the range of different foci/opinions, on all sides of the debate.
(Editing, because the above post seems to have changed. I'm not really sure where the whole 11%<19% thing was coming from; I've never advocated or encouraged any change in CSM membership at all.)
|

Gorobom
|
Posted - 2008.05.22 18:34:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Tolis Irithel Edited by: Tolis Irithel on 22/05/2008 18:32:05 I was never suggesting that the 22% was wrong, just for clarity; 22%>19% was not an argument that 22% was wrong. (I wouldn't make that argument because I don't agree that 22% is accurate, in any case.)
Fair enough though, you make perfectly good and valid points as to why members of large alliances may be considered to have more knowledge of the problems being discussed. I for one am quite happy with the range of different foci/opinions, on all sides of the debate.
(Editing, because the above post seems to have changed. I'm not really sure where the whole 11%<19% thing was coming from; I've never advocated or encouraged any change in CSM membership at all.)
The 11-19 thing is just that. 22% represents 0.0 better than 11%.
Well that's a nice reply, if everyone thought like you these forums would have less bash and drama, judging by your last posts.
|

Why'dyou HitMe
Privateers Privateer Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.05.22 18:43:00 -
[57]
Edited by: Why''dyou HitMe on 22/05/2008 19:07:14 NO SUPPORT Point of the matter is that a majority of goons voted, most other groups did not. If it wasnÆt important enough for you or your group to move the mouse the incredible distance it would have taken to vote then that is your problem not the community as a whole. The election is finished, the results should stand.
I like the goons, they like to have fun In a gameà OMG!! Yes they are sick twisted little individuals, again why I like them.
I for one welcome our new goon overloards.
|

Calyce
|
Posted - 2008.05.22 18:46:00 -
[58]
I agree to an extent. The council themselves should be able to ahve a vote of no confidence in other members, but only after they have had time to see what the person is like/doing.
This whole bloomin no confidence before the CSM has even done anything is completely stupid.
The two goonies who were voted in I have confidence in, but some of the utter ****ers who happen to be in the same alliance shoud be banned from the human race.
On the whole I'd say, no, we voters shouldn't have any more say in the matter once we have voted the members in. Thes rest should be up to the CSM candidates that we voted for.
If you didn't vote, then maybe next time you will actually bother to vote.
silence == acceptance.
|

Malar
HUN Corp. HUN Reloaded
|
Posted - 2008.05.22 18:47:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Silence Duegood /signed
Goons and their behaviour have no place on the CSM board.
seconded --------------------------------------------- *Comments in this post are mine and mine only* |

Haakelen
United Forces
|
Posted - 2008.05.22 18:49:00 -
[60]
Yeah, only about Jade, not the goons.
|
|

Sunwillow Auryn
|
Posted - 2008.05.22 18:56:00 -
[61]
When I first saw this thread I thought 'no problem, I can /sign this without even thinking about it.'
I'm a carebear. Proabbly always will be, no intention of being involved in the FW either. My play style is about as far from GSA as it's possible to be (heck on other threads I have taken the mick and argued with them). However, we cannot have a CSM all with the same views or what's the point? Fact is, they were democratically elected, and have a right to remain, or it will undermine all confidence in the voting - why bother voting if the candidate you will vote for is banned from office?
So. I don't agree with anything that GS have to say (well probably not true, we probably agree that sometimes when the sun is shining the sky is blue, but it sounds good ;) but from diversity comes progress. They have a right to be there, let them stay.
/not signed
|

Trader Man
|
Posted - 2008.05.22 19:03:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Ispitane
Quote: If you observe any reasonably democratic country in the world, it would say in the constitution that ellections are NOT valid, unless certain % of population turns and unless that particular candidate gets a majority of votes in excess of some threshold.
Let's take the United Kingdom, which (rigging of postal votes aside) is somewhat democratic. Please find something somewhere on www.statutelaw.gov.uk that specifies a minimum number of votes for the election of an MP to be valid.
Well here you go - another stupid argument by goonswarm guy. Obviously you have no clue what you are talking about. If only you spent 5 minutes of your time doing simple research on the internet you would realise that you are wrong:
1) I'm not gonna dig into that database of laws, I deem this as a pointless exercise.
2) It is absurd to state that simply because 1 country (in that case is UK) does not have certain law mechanism, then this mechanism does not exist elsewhere and does not make sense. I don't know if UK has minimum turnout (and I don't care and I don't want to find out because read above), but many countries do and it seems to be a very logical mechanism.
3) "As in legislative elections, one way to avoid candidates being elected with only a small proportion of the popular vote is to hold a second ballot...blablabla...A number of countries also have minimum turnout rates for their presidential elections, typically 50 per cent...blablabla..."
Source
So what lesson can we draw from this :
1) Ellections mechanisms are incredibly complex these days, and the reason for that is that majority vote may not be the best choice for all situations. If that was not the case, and majority voting did good work, then there will be no need for all those complex system. Hence I would very strongly suggest current mechism should be reworked.
2) One of the key points was to provoke discussion, whether election mechanism in place makes sense. This goonswarm person not only made zero effort to follow the logic and make a reasonable argument, but in fact insists on his position which has absolutelly no grounds whatsoever.
Do you REALLY want someone like this to represent you in eve comunity ?
I don't
|

Yorda
Battlestars GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.05.22 19:05:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Tolis Irithel Edited by: Tolis Irithel on 22/05/2008 18:32:05 I was never suggesting that the 22% was wrong, just for clarity; 22%>19% was not an argument that 22% was wrong. (I wouldn't make that argument because I don't agree that 22% is accurate, in any case.)
Fair enough though, you make perfectly good and valid points as to why members of large alliances may be considered to have more knowledge of the problems being discussed. I for one am quite happy with the range of different foci/opinions, on all sides of the debate.
(Editing, because the above post seems to have changed. I'm not really sure where the whole 11%<19% thing was coming from; I've never advocated or encouraged any change in CSM membership at all.)
That "19%" doesn't account for trading alts, or people who logged in for their free week and never played again though.
I agree with this thread, because by the logic of the OP jade or anyone else who I think is a complete annoyance to this game shouldn't be on the CSM either.
Originally by: nlewis jammers are the meatshield [Bob] wish their pets were
|

Tolis Irithel
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
|
Posted - 2008.05.22 19:15:00 -
[64]
Edited by: Tolis Irithel on 22/05/2008 19:16:55 I do realise the problems with the 19% figure I specified above, and in combination with:
1) There are only 9 representatives, so % targets are quite limited. 2) I don't accept the 22%, as I think candidates beyond the two GS candidates are prepared, and able, to look at 0.0 issues; in reality, I believe this to be far higher than 22%. I used this as an approximation because:
a) It's lower than what I think, so by using it I'm making a stronger case. b) The likely deviance is for an underestimation, offsetting the underestimation in the 19%, whether in part or in full.
22% ~ 19%, and (22+a)% should be closer to (19+b)% than any other combination, hence my support, unless you either genuinely believe that only the GS candidates represent 0.0 issues or that the number of alts/random temporary players is massive. Unfortunately, the only publicly available data on 0.0 entry is a single data point, so the statistical significance, is, admittedly, limited.
|

Hrin
Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.05.22 19:19:00 -
[65]
CCP already hired a economist, now should they hire a political scientist too?
|

Ispitane
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.05.22 19:20:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Trader Man If you observe any reasonably democratic country in the world, it would say in the constitution that ellections are NOT valid, unless certain % of population turns and unless that particular candidate gets a majority of votes in excess of some threshold.
(emphasis mine)
Originally by: Trader Man It is absurd to state that simply because 1 country (in that case is UK) does not have certain law mechanism, then this mechanism does not exist elsewhere and does not make sense. I don't know if UK has minimum turnout (and I don't care and I don't want to find out because read above), but many countries do and it seems to be a very logical mechanism.
These statements are mutually exclusive. At no point was I trying to argue that it doesn't exist anywhere. I was merely providing a convenient example of it not existing somewhere. That is, providing a counterexample to your claim. |

Tolis Irithel
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
|
Posted - 2008.05.22 19:20:00 -
[67]
Edited by: Tolis Irithel on 22/05/2008 19:20:31 "Should CCP hire a political scientist"
Oh dear gods no!
|

Gorobom
|
Posted - 2008.05.22 19:21:00 -
[68]
Edited by: Gorobom on 22/05/2008 19:29:19
Originally by: Trader Man
Well here you go - another stupid argument by goonswarm guy.
Answer mine then. So far you've been trolling and ignoring every serious post, picking up whatever you can troll with more ease on your personal vendetta against goonswarm. You don't present any argument, only points of view, and you marginalize others.
You turned a perfectly fine post into a "lol you're stupid, see, his post about democracy makes his "kind" a terrible people" which makes no sense whatsoever.
I presented not only one, but two very big posts filled with arguments and well researched facts and clear numbers, which are available for public at either eve-maps.com or the economics pdf - one with info straight from the game itself, the other with info from a CCP member, officially released.
In the meanwhile, half of your posts are "what a stupid argument" ending with "see one is evil, they're all evil". You're behaving as if you were in the middle ages and so far has not presented any evidence against the very two GS candidates, only against random GS members that are posting in the forums.
Do you also believe Obama is evil because black people are evil, or something? Coming from your "flawless" arguments, I wouldn't doubt a bit.
Anyway, I have two very nice posts back there which you didn't have the courage to reply, probably because you don't have how.
What I do know however, is that I definitely don't want anyone like you representing myself anywhere.
|

trading hub
|
Posted - 2008.05.22 19:23:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Tolis Irithel Edited by: Tolis Irithel on 22/05/2008 19:16:55 I do realise the problems with the 19% figure I specified above, and in combination with:
1) There are only 9 representatives, so % targets are quite limited. 2) I don't accept the 22%, as I think candidates beyond the two GS candidates are prepared, and able, to look at 0.0 issues; in reality, I believe this to be far higher than 22%. I used this as an approximation because:
a) It's lower than what I think, so by using it I'm making a stronger case. b) The likely deviance is for an underestimation, offsetting the underestimation in the 19%, whether in part or in full.
22% ~ 19%, and (22+a)% should be closer to (19+b)% than any other combination, hence my support, unless you either genuinely believe that only the GS candidates represent 0.0 issues or that the number of alts/random temporary players is massive. Unfortunately, the only publicly available data on 0.0 entry is a single data point, so the statistical significance, is, admittedly, limited.
To put it simple:
It is difficult to forecast the result of the election, especialy in case of eve, since its completely new territory. However as a result of election mechanism goons appear to be overrepresented. That is the case even we do not factor in notion that 50% of active eve population (conservative estimate) hate goons.
Hence I would say that something is definently wrong with election mechanism
|

Tolis Irithel
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
|
Posted - 2008.05.22 19:26:00 -
[70]
If I could thumbs up Gorobom's post just above this, I would.
Re: something being wrong with the election mechanic... I'm of two minds on this one. It's a whole other discussion though; I wasn't going for the mechanic, I was attempting to respond to specific concerns about the current members of the CSM. I'll be happy to contribute in an appropriate thread on that matter, but I don't think it's place is in here, already full of enough different topics.
|
|

Fraszoid
ULTRA VEGA
|
Posted - 2008.05.22 19:35:00 -
[71]
I do not support this. This is the first council, so everything is a bit shaky while things settle in and start working. The soonest the ability of any CSM Member could be evaluated would be after the first meeting with CCP when the minutes of the meetings are posted to review. After that there should be enough information to make an informed decision on the matter. -------------------------------------------------- Everyone is born right handed, only the great over come it.
Check out my players guide at: http://www.eve-miners.info/guide/minersguide.html |

Trader Man
|
Posted - 2008.05.22 19:35:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Gorobom
There's a lot more issues in 0.0 now than in high-sec. Furthermore, 0.0 players are forced against hard walls more often, making them more aware of the issues of EVE. This, combined with the fact 0.0 is mutable and entirely based on real-player politics, makes 0.0 players much more interested in voting and participating in those politics. This is what they've been doing constantly - politics. 0.0 alliances depend on it much more, since they actually "own" space. 0.0 Alliances are more organized usually, because you need to have well defined politics in order to sustain thousands and thousands of players.
To sum it up: Most High sec players never really faced serious, real politics in this game and care about it less than, say, your average GS member. This is reflected in the elections.
I totally agree with the bold part, and hence it is especially strange that 2 gs ppl representing the whole 0.0
This will create biased single view. If you are arguing that 0.0 issues require more attention and hence more weight then fine, maybe we need more candidates from 0.0 elected then % population that actually lives in 0.0, however that implies goons are definently overrepresented
|

Darius JOHNSON
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.05.22 19:45:00 -
[73]
Originally by: trading hub That is the case even we do not factor in notion that 50% of active eve population (conservative estimate) hate goons.
Sir, would you please do me a favor and share the source of this data with me? I must have overlooked this study and while I'm sure the conclusion is not at all made up and completely based in fact, it would be of great interest to me to review the original data.
|

Sariyah
HUN Corp. HUN Reloaded
|
Posted - 2008.05.22 19:47:00 -
[74]
Agree. I hate goons as many others for the clear attempt to destroy the game.
|

Yorda
Battlestars GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.05.22 19:48:00 -
[75]
Edited by: Yorda on 22/05/2008 19:48:05
Originally by: Trader Man I totally agree with the bold part, and hence it is especially strange that 2 gs ppl representing the whole 0.0
This will create biased single view. If you are arguing that 0.0 issues require more attention and hence more weight then fine, maybe we need more candidates from 0.0 elected then % population that actually lives in 0.0, however that implies goons are definently overrepresented
Actually if you only take the votes cast for the winning 9 CSM members goons got 22.15% of the votes.
We're under represented by 0.15% I demand a recount.
Originally by: nlewis jammers are the meatshield [Bob] wish their pets were
|

ElanMorin6
Ars ex Discordia GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.05.22 19:54:00 -
[76]
This forum is going to replace the auth forum as the best forum?
c/d
|

Leandro Salazar
The Blackguard Wolves
|
Posted - 2008.05.22 20:32:00 -
[77]
It is very interesting to see where what was intended as a parody on the other no-confidence thread got to...
Make suicide ganking more difficult!
|

Inanna Zuni
The Causality Electus Matari
|
Posted - 2008.05.22 20:50:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Leandro Salazar I would like to see the two GoonSwarm members on the CSM removed and replaced by the top backups
No.
The simple reason why? Because when the votes are counted the person elected is *elected*. They aren't there by your grace and favour; they received a high enough number of votes to get elected and elected they are and shall stay.
Plus ... each incarnation of the CSM serves six months. That is all. In five months' time or so the whole candidate campaigning thing will start again. If you don't like who got elected stand for yourself (the 'put up or shut up' position) or join the support team for someone else you do like. But even then , the people who get elected are the ones who take office*.
inanna zuni
* yes, this sadly includes people who ruin their planetside countries too :-(
|

Moon Kitten
GoonFleet
|
Posted - 2008.05.22 21:03:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Sariyah Agree. I hate goons as many others for the clear attempt to destroy the game.
Seconded, I too hate goons. The Goons -- we talked about this yesterday and I -- and, you know, I have to pick on the Goons because they're the most dangerous organization in the Eve right now. There's by far. There's nobody even close to that. They're, like, second next to Isk farmers.
/signed
|

Trzzbk
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.05.22 21:23:00 -
[80]
Edited by: Trzzbk on 22/05/2008 21:23:38
Originally by: Trader Man Totally support the idea, if you think about the whole election then obviously two goons was a rigged election.
In any proper ellection there is a notion of majority voters participating, CCP claims that there total of around 200k acounts, all in all only around 10k ppl participated, that means only approximatelly 5% of eve population participated.
Lets take this analysis a bit further, according to official statistic average age of participant was around 1,5 game time, that implies that for sure an average participant is totally aware of obnoxiously stupid behavior of goonswarm people, hence the probability of him voting for goonswarm is very low !UNLESS! he is goonswarm member himself.
Goonswarm is a very big and active alliance, they could easily encourage their fellow members on internal forums to vote for their candidates.
This situation would not have occured in the first place if rate of participation was much higher. Although I do realise that it is very difficult to speculate about potential ellection outcome, however I would forecast that if rate of participation was sufficiently high then none of goonswarm members would have been elected.
Maybe an appropriate solution would be to re-run the ellection, but this time introduce some sort of encouragement policy to induce more ppl to vote (carrot cake maybe?)
This way electorate base which be much more representative and will reflect true will of eve comunity !
To sum this up: "Hi I am Trader Man and I have no idea what 'rigged election' actually means or how to actually spell 'election'." The ability to drum up support for your candidates does not a rigging make. If all of you people who are obviously so far above us Goonies really cared so much, why didn't you take it upon yourselves to get people to vote against the Goon members?
|
|

Mr Stark
|
Posted - 2008.05.22 21:31:00 -
[81]
Anyone who supports scamming and metagaming does not have the right be on this council. Goonswarm are openly trying to disrupt play for everyone else.
|

Herschel Yamamoto
Bloodmoney Incorporated
|
Posted - 2008.05.22 21:33:00 -
[82]
Originally by: Mr Stark Anyone who supports scamming and metagaming does not have the right be on this council. Goonswarm are openly trying to disrupt play for everyone else.
You're aware that scamming is explicitly allowed in Eve, right? I'm no great fan of the Goons, but that's hardly the reason why.
Also, will people please stop misusing the word "metagaming"? I do not think it means what you think it means. ------------------ Fix the forums! |

Leandro Salazar
The Blackguard Wolves
|
Posted - 2008.05.22 21:38:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Inanna Zuni If you don't like who got elected stand for yourself (the 'put up or shut up' position) or join the support team for someone else you do like. But even then , the people who get elected are the ones who take office*.
As a matter of fact I was a candidate myself and actually finished as the final backup. That you as an actual CSM member are not aware of that...
Make suicide ganking more difficult!
|

jm24
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.05.22 21:43:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Leandro Salazar
Originally by: Inanna Zuni If you don't like who got elected stand for yourself (the 'put up or shut up' position) or join the support team for someone else you do like. But even then , the people who get elected are the ones who take office*.
As a matter of fact I was a candidate myself and actually finished as the final backup. That you as an actual CSM member are not aware of that...
No one cares, but while your here I heard Darius needs a coffee.
|

Inanna Zuni
The Causality Electus Matari
|
Posted - 2008.05.22 22:35:00 -
[85]
Originally by: Leandro Salazar As a matter of fact I was a candidate myself and actually finished as the final backup. That you as an actual CSM member are not aware of that...
My sincere apologies. I can only plead that I am speed-reading as many of the massive number of posts appearing at the same time as having an ingame meeting with other CSM members and was not noting carefully enough who was posting before I actually answered.
It is the case though that there are a lot (too many!) posts complaining about the results from people who didn't get involved in the first place ...
Inanna Zuni
|

Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
|
Posted - 2008.05.22 22:38:00 -
[86]
Originally by: Leandro Salazar
Originally by: Inanna Zuni If you don't like who got elected stand for yourself (the 'put up or shut up' position) or join the support team for someone else you do like. But even then , the people who get elected are the ones who take office*.
As a matter of fact I was a candidate myself and actually finished as the final backup. That you as an actual CSM member are not aware of that...
You should have eve-mails waiting for you with details of csm-mails and in-game channels for the CSM and alternates Leandro. Hope to see you online soon!
CSM Manifesto 2008 | Destroy Outposts! |

ZombyDog
Welp Industries
|
Posted - 2008.05.22 23:05:00 -
[87]
Edited by: ZombyDog on 22/05/2008 23:07:00 Waaaah lets subvert the democratic process because some people I dont like got voted in ( and I didn't ). This surely won't make a mockery of the whole CSM model from the outset.
|

Farrqua
Turbo Mining Inc.
|
Posted - 2008.05.22 23:54:00 -
[88]
You know the problem with this entire CSM crap is that we have the CSM members/chair/vice whatever still have their head in a form of role play mode.
Bringing in game politics, bias and so forth to the board does not show objectivity nor the ability to separate ones self from the game long enough to make rational decisions or recommendations.
Once everyone convenes to the table everyone should be sitting down as Sean, Andrew, Alice, John boy or whatever. Not Bane, jade, Ankfkdjsgfgtigwrei, Inui.
Am I the only one seeing this problem? Or is everyone caught up in the I am still logged and and I can't logg out mode?
|

cimmaron
Warp Riders Fang Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.05.23 00:21:00 -
[89]
Edited by: cimmaron on 23/05/2008 00:21:25
Originally by: Leandro Salazar Edited by: Leandro Salazar on 22/05/2008 16:02:44 In the case of clear ridicule and disrespect expressed towards the CSM and EVE as a whole by members of their alliance, as well as the stated intent to disrupt EVE as game by said alliance, I would like to see the two GoonSwarm members on the CSM removed and replaced by the top backups, because the only thing I am confident they will do is make the work of the council harder and do their best to hurt EVE as a game.
Express support or discuss criticism of this idea here. Thank you.
I agree, Failswarm has no place on the council, they do enough to pollute eve as it is.
|

Farrqua
Turbo Mining Inc.
|
Posted - 2008.05.23 00:30:00 -
[90]
Originally by: cimmaron Edited by: cimmaron on 23/05/2008 00:21:25
Originally by: Leandro Salazar Edited by: Leandro Salazar on 22/05/2008 16:02:44 In the case of clear ridicule and disrespect expressed towards the CSM and EVE as a whole by members of their alliance, as well as the stated intent to disrupt EVE as game by said alliance, I would like to see the two GoonSwarm members on the CSM removed and replaced by the top backups, because the only thing I am confident they will do is make the work of the council harder and do their best to hurt EVE as a game.
Express support or discuss criticism of this idea here. Thank you.
I agree, Failswarm has no place on the council, they do enough to pollute eve as it is.
Yea nice objectivity there big guy. You have just proved my point that this CSM thing is a bunch of crap because no one has any true objectivity and could not identify reality if it came up a bit you on the arse.
With this kind of input and participation, the CSM should be zhit canned in about a month.
|
|

OldPueblo
DarkStar 1 GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.05.23 01:05:00 -
[91]
If only goons did something to contribute to the EVE community, like I don't know develop an application that everyone in EVE can rely on that dramatically improves the users ability to plan and track their skills. But who are we kidding right? HAHAHA LOL GOONS
|

Kinkie Yuuki
|
Posted - 2008.05.23 01:13:00 -
[92]
I concur.
|

Sakura Nihil
Stimulus
|
Posted - 2008.05.23 03:12:00 -
[93]
Let's give them a chance to prove themselves first, shall we?
That being said, watch how this 1st council acts, and if it becomes necessary, then I'd support it.
Goal Line Blitz, an American Football MMO |

Breha Organa
|
Posted - 2008.05.23 03:20:00 -
[94]
I'm only going to reply to this topic because I thought some of you might like to look at a graph of the election results... to see just what the so-called independent candidates were up against.
Before the year is out, the current council will be replaced by new members, again by vote. As exhausting as the election was for me (I was recovering from abdominal surgery)... I will be running again. My campaign website is going to undergo some changes, and I will do a better job of getting my message out.
|

Wikis
|
Posted - 2008.05.23 04:35:00 -
[95]
+1
|

Teclis van'Dreike
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.05.23 05:59:00 -
[96]
Edited by: Teclis van''Dreike on 23/05/2008 06:00:50 This is the best forum!
Totally in support of making Goons second class eve citizens.
|

Rawr Cristina
Naqam Project Alice.
|
Posted - 2008.05.23 07:29:00 -
[97]
OP is dramawolf, do not support. I mean, I don't like goons as a whole either, but they're people just like us arn't they? trying to deny them any worth because you don't like their ideals is particually fascist. ...
|

J'Mkarr Soban
Proxenetae Invicti
|
Posted - 2008.05.23 08:33:00 -
[98]
-- These are my personal views and in no way represent the views of Proxenetae Invicti, which maintains a neutral stance stemming from the strong ethics demanded of its work. |

Heroldyn
|
Posted - 2008.05.23 08:45:00 -
[99]
NO SUPPORT
if the csm really has the power to change anything at all, the goon people will add to that in their own, unique way.
its allways good to have a very diverse group of people in such a constallation.
|

Lord XSiV
Digital Research - Omega Protocol
|
Posted - 2008.05.23 08:47:00 -
[100]
How about a vote of no confidence for the entire CSM?
Afterall, it is hardly a democratic representation of the community if only 11% of the population turned out to vote. In fact, the vote by itself shows a no confidence in the the process so it most certainly should be scrapped.
As a paying customer I would rather see the money being spent on improving the game rather than giving out free trips to iceland based on a popularity contest.
|
|

steejans nix
0beron Construct
|
Posted - 2008.05.23 09:02:00 -
[101]
Do not support.
Do not either support the way they play but they got elected and got the right to stand.
BTW who would by getting rid of these 2 council members get on the CSM ?
|

Max Teranous
Teranous Productions
|
Posted - 2008.05.23 09:07:00 -
[102]
Wouldn't it be easier to just not let goons vote? then they wouldn't get reps onto the CSM.
Oh, and best not let women or black people vote either.
Seriously for a sec, discrimination in a democratic system is bad, m'kay?
Max 
|

Sariyah
HUN Corp. HUN Reloaded
|
Posted - 2008.05.23 09:13:00 -
[103]
Originally by: Rawr Cristina I don't like goons as a whole either, but they're people just like us arn't they?
Haha, no they aren't Guess you're someone that would setp up for Mojo Jojo's human rights, too 
|

Poreuomai
Mirkur Draug'Tyr
|
Posted - 2008.05.23 11:40:00 -
[104]
Edited by: Poreuomai on 23/05/2008 11:41:45
Originally by: Leandro Salazar ... would like to see the two GoonSwarm members on the CSM removed and replaced by the top backups ... please note that this thread was a direct response to THIS one.
AGAINST. 100%
For the same reason as I stated in THAT thread; it should be the player base who call for and hold any vote of no confidence.
|

Scagga Laebetrovo
Delictum 23216 San Matari.
|
Posted - 2008.05.23 11:44:00 -
[105]
Originally by: Leandro Salazar Edited by: Leandro Salazar on 23/05/2008 08:03:24 In the case of clear ridicule and disrespect expressed towards the CSM and EVE as a whole by members of their alliance, as well as the stated intent to disrupt EVE as game by said alliance, I would like to see the two GoonSwarm members on the CSM removed and replaced by the top backups, because the only thing I am confident they will do is make the work of the council harder and do their best to hurt EVE as a game.
Express support or discuss criticism of this idea here. Thank you.
DISCLAIMER: If you are not a Goon but intend to defend them, before you jump into this thread, brandishing your Sword of Righteousness +5, and defend the human rights of every Goon ever born and mark me as a rascist, fascist, murderer of democracy and public enemy #1, please note that this thread was a direct response to THIS one. Then think long and hard about the meaning of words like irony and parody...
Based on the reasoning behind your proposal, I rate you lower than any goon. Well done on shooting yourself in the foot three times in the same post.
I would suggest a vote of no confidence be a recourse available to CSM members, not voters. Furthermore, it could only binding if the move acquired a strong majority (e.g. probably at least 6 or 7/9 CSM members).
San Matari Official forums |

Felysta Sandorn
Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency
|
Posted - 2008.05.23 11:53:00 -
[106]
Considering that goons have outright said they are here for the 'lulz' and just want to ruin other player's gaming experiences, I'm inclined to agree with the OP... The fact of the matter is, if goons wanted to, they could create a thread in this forum and give it 1000 thumbs up at the drop of the hat, making the whole idea completely impractical. I for one don't want to wait for that to happen before someone realises a mistake has been made.
I'd say a maximum of one player per alliance should be in the CSM, meaning get rid of one of the goons. That way at least we can retain some of the sanity from this mockery of a council.
Latest Video, Click Here!
|

Scagga Laebetrovo
Delictum 23216 San Matari.
|
Posted - 2008.05.23 11:55:00 -
[107]
Originally by: Felysta Sandorn Considering that goons have outright said they are here for the 'lulz' and just want to ruin other player's gaming experiences, I'm inclined to agree with the OP... The fact of the matter is, if goons wanted to, they could create a thread in this forum and give it 1000 thumbs up at the drop of the hat, making the whole idea completely impractical. I for one don't want to wait for that to happen before someone realises a mistake has been made.
I'd say a maximum of one player per alliance should be in the CSM, meaning get rid of one of the goons. That way at least we can retain some of the sanity from this mockery of a council.
Affirmative action ITP
San Matari Official forums |

Leandro Salazar
The Blackguard Wolves
|
Posted - 2008.05.23 11:55:00 -
[108]
Originally by: Scagga Laebetrovo Based on the reasoning behind your proposal, I rate you lower than any goon. Well done on shooting yourself in the foot three times in the same post.
I would suggest a vote of no confidence be a recourse available to CSM members, not voters. Furthermore, it could only binding if the move acquired a strong majority (e.g. probably at least 6 or 7/9 CSM members).
Sigh... A real shame that the irony is lost on pretty much everyone except the goons themselves it seems. I really should have remembered that I learned long ago that subtleties like irony are not taught in todays schools anymore before I started this. Oh well, it IS fun regardless (or maybe because?) of the ignorance abound.
Make suicide ganking more difficult!
|

Scagga Laebetrovo
Delictum 23216 San Matari.
|
Posted - 2008.05.23 11:58:00 -
[109]
Originally by: Leandro Salazar
Originally by: Scagga Laebetrovo Based on the reasoning behind your proposal, I rate you lower than any goon. Well done on shooting yourself in the foot three times in the same post.
I would suggest a vote of no confidence be a recourse available to CSM members, not voters. Furthermore, it could only binding if the move acquired a strong majority (e.g. probably at least 6 or 7/9 CSM members).
Sigh... A real shame that the irony is lost on pretty much everyone except the goons themselves it seems. I really should have remembered that I learned long ago that subtleties like irony are not taught in todays schools anymore before I started this. Oh well, it IS fun regardless (or maybe because?) of the ignorance abound.
Two wrongs don't make a right, ever.
Your propositions are completely unethical and suggest that one can discriminate against a person based on actions of his alliance members. Your lack of insight in this matter is even more disturbing.
San Matari Official forums |

Leandro Salazar
The Blackguard Wolves
|
Posted - 2008.05.23 12:04:00 -
[110]
Originally by: Scagga Laebetrovo Two wrongs don't make a right, ever.
Your propositions are completely unethical and suggest that one can discriminate against a person based on actions of his alliance members. Your lack of insight in this matter is even more disturbing.
No. What is truly disturbing is your total lack of understanding of the meaning of irony and parody. Try this and this
And if that is not good enough, here it is in plain text: The OP was supposed to poke fun at the other thread and is not a serious proposal. Tbh I was expecting it to be locked within an hour. But I guess the mods must be having fun reading here too lol.
Make suicide ganking more difficult!
|
|

Scagga Laebetrovo
Delictum 23216 San Matari.
|
Posted - 2008.05.23 12:11:00 -
[111]
Originally by: Leandro Salazar
Originally by: Scagga Laebetrovo Two wrongs don't make a right, ever.
Your propositions are completely unethical and suggest that one can discriminate against a person based on actions of his alliance members. Your lack of insight in this matter is even more disturbing.
No. What is truly disturbing is your total lack of understanding of the meaning of irony and parody. Try this and this
And if that is not good enough, here it is in plain text: The OP was supposed to poke fun at the other thread and is not a serious proposal. Tbh I was expecting it to be locked within an hour. But I guess the mods must be having fun reading here too lol.
Thanks for taking the time to make some links in your post. I know what 'irony' and 'parody' mean, but probably took you too seriously. Thanks for pranking about on the CSM forum...
San Matari Official forums |

Christy Walton
Bloodveil
|
Posted - 2008.05.23 12:14:00 -
[112]
Edited by: Christy Walton on 23/05/2008 12:14:26
Originally by: Lord XSiV How about a vote of no confidence for the entire CSM?
Afterall, it is hardly a democratic representation of the community if only 11% of the population turned out to vote. In fact, the vote by itself shows a no confidence in the the process so it most certainly should be scrapped.
As a paying customer I would rather see the money being spent on improving the game rather than giving out free trips to iceland based on a popularity contest.
QFT.
11% shows exactly that, players DO NOT WANT CSM to speak for us. But, Jades' got another free trip!
|

Sigul Siento
|
Posted - 2008.05.23 13:56:00 -
[113]
Anyone who can summon this much whine from so many daft people has to be doing something right *now where's the 'not supporting'-ticker...*
|

Illrae Pyou
|
Posted - 2008.05.23 14:30:00 -
[114]
Honestly, I think Goonswarm should be taken off CSM.
The belief that they will actually help some how is the funniest **** I've heard in a while.
|

Phelan Driscoll
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.05.23 14:51:00 -
[115]
Edited by: Phelan Driscoll on 23/05/2008 14:52:04 Supporting this because Darius is black. Obviously from this thread we have seen most of Eve doesn't want "that kind" of people on the CSM. *snip* Signature is totally inappropriate and not allowed on EvE Forums. Contact us at [email protected] if you have any queries - Valorem |

Ivas
|
Posted - 2008.05.23 15:36:00 -
[116]
Originally by: Christy Walton QFT.
11% shows exactly that, players DO NOT WANT CSM to speak for us. But, Jades' got another free trip!
Sorry Revan isn't in but she and Jade can continue having spacesex.
|

Telaan
Pat Sharp's Potato Rodeo Daedalus Hegemony
|
Posted - 2008.05.23 16:00:00 -
[117]
Edited by: Telaan on 23/05/2008 16:01:31 Supporting this because I've never seen these little thumbs-up icons before and I want one too. |

Horondan
Pat Sharp's Potato Rodeo Daedalus Hegemony
|
Posted - 2008.05.23 16:00:00 -
[118]
^^ What she said
|

Jadon
Pat Sharp's Potato Rodeo Daedalus Hegemony
|
Posted - 2008.05.23 16:01:00 -
[119]
^^ What he said
|

Mishiel
Multiverse Corporation Cosmic Anomalies
|
Posted - 2008.05.23 16:06:00 -
[120]
NO SUPPORT
Regardless of your prejudice against any specific group, they were elected by due process, and therefore are representative of a portion of the members of this game. They deserve to be there just as anybody else does. If your worried that they will wield some sort of power over CCP may I remind you that 1) they are only 2 out of 9 and 2) your probably overestimating the impact that the CSM will actually have over CCP. This group will not be able to actually make any decisions.
|
|

Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
|
Posted - 2008.05.23 16:16:00 -
[121]
Originally by: Felysta Sandorn Considering that goons have outright said they are here for the 'lulz' and just want to ruin other player's gaming experiences, I'm inclined to agree with the OP... The fact of the matter is, if goons wanted to, they could create a thread in this forum and give it 1000 thumbs up at the drop of the hat, making the whole idea completely impractical. I for one don't want to wait for that to happen before someone realises a mistake has been made.
I'd say a maximum of one player per alliance should be in the CSM, meaning get rid of one of the goons. That way at least we can retain some of the sanity from this mockery of a council.
Not picking on you but I think you fall into a trap quite a few are currently stumbling into - don't look at the forum froth from uninvolved people and see the CSM itself as "mockery". 9 representatives and 5 alternates were chosen and in they main they are sensible, adult and mature people, with a wide range of real-life skills and abilities that will be critical for this role. From my first informal meeting with my fellow Reps I've found them positive and enthusiastic and friendly. I personally expect great things from the council.
Its a reality of any political process that there will always be some lunatics that follow the parade and try and cause controversy to stir up emotions and fervor because they enjoy that sort of thing. Trick is look past the noise to see the signal, judge the CSM on what it does. Not what the loudest disruptive "look at me!!!!" forum voices try to pretend it does. That way you'll get a much more accurate view on proceedings and what the CSM can actually achieve.
As for the OP post - I'm against it. The ultimate player sanctioned "vote of no confidence" is to not elect people again at the next election. This will happen if people abuse their power and responsibility or simply don't do the job.
And of course there is a CCP sanctioned "no confidence" if reps actively break the rules and confidences of the job and behave improperly and in that case the misbehaving rep will be replaced by the top alternate.
In either case this is all we actually need and it would be an extremely bad precedent to introduce some kind of mob-shouting mechanic to remove CSM reps in situ. I think we all know where that would lead.
CSM Manifesto 2008 | Destroy Outposts! |

Zariphina Wylde
|
Posted - 2008.05.23 17:31:00 -
[122]
Originally by: Lord XSiV How about a vote of no confidence for the entire CSM?
Afterall, it is hardly a democratic representation of the community if only 11% of the population turned out to vote. In fact, the vote by itself shows a no confidence in the the process so it most certainly should be scrapped.
As a paying customer I would rather see the money being spent on improving the game rather than giving out free trips to iceland based on a popularity contest.
Turnout <> not being able to vote. They chose not to vote, so they didn't.
If they couldn't vote, or were kept form voting, that'd be different.
Otherwise, they're just apathetic.
|

Gordon Antilis
|
Posted - 2008.05.23 20:08:00 -
[123]
No Support!
Goonswarm has done a lot for the community, and have single handedly destroyed far worse enemies in the Eve Universe. Goons wouldn't have been voted in if the people didn't want it.
|

Raymond Sterns
Utopian Research I.E.L. The ENTITY.
|
Posted - 2008.05.23 20:47:00 -
[124]
Edited by: Raymond Sterns on 23/05/2008 20:47:40 wrong thread _
|

Silence Duegood
|
Posted - 2008.05.23 20:49:00 -
[125]
Originally by: Gordon Antilis No Support!
Goonswarm has done a lot for the community, and have single handedly destroyed far worse enemies in the Eve Universe. Goons wouldn't have been voted in if the people didn't want it.
The above is the stupidest post I've read in a long while.
I'll be sitting on the edge of my seat waiting for you to cite some examples of what wonderous things GS has done for the community (DoS attacks and racial/sexist discriminatory remarks don't really count, btw).
This game (let alone the CSM board) would be a far better place without them and their petulance.
|

Phelan Driscoll
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.05.23 20:53:00 -
[126]
Originally by: Silence Duegood
The above is the stupidest post I've read in a long while.
I'll be sitting on the edge of my seat waiting for you to cite some examples of what wonderous things GS has done for the community (DoS attacks and racial/sexist discriminatory remarks don't really count, btw).
This game (let alone the CSM board) would be a far better place without them and their petulance.
We also made fun of fat people. *snip* Signature is totally inappropriate and not allowed on EvE Forums. Contact us at [email protected] if you have any queries - Valorem |

Yorda
Battlestars GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.05.23 20:56:00 -
[127]
Originally by: Silence Duegood
Originally by: Gordon Antilis No Support!
Goonswarm has done a lot for the community, and have single handedly destroyed far worse enemies in the Eve Universe. Goons wouldn't have been voted in if the people didn't want it.
The above is the stupidest post I've read in a long while.
I'll be sitting on the edge of my seat waiting for you to cite some examples of what wonderous things GS has done for the community (DoS attacks and racial/sexist discriminatory remarks don't really count, btw).
This game (let alone the CSM board) would be a far better place without them and their petulance.
Forced people to realize that maybe they could have fun in this game? Titan manifesto? Helped stop a single entity from owning all of 0.0? Repeatedly crash markets once people realize they are profitable (see data core market)?
Originally by: nlewis jammers are the meatshield [Bob] wish their pets were
|

OldPueblo
DarkStar 1 GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.05.23 21:48:00 -
[128]
Edited by: OldPueblo on 23/05/2008 21:48:31 EVEMon
The sad horrible truth is that the size and diversity that makes up GoonSwarm is pretty much exactly the best place to discover what in game needs balancing, nerfing, buffing, etc. Very few entities in game can take a game mechanic fully through its paces to see whether they are broken or an actual benefit to the EVE community. I know that breaks all your hearts to learn that you are actually quite dependent on us. At this point donations would not only be welcomed, but encouraged.
|

MrClock
Ars ex Discordia GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.05.24 03:22:00 -
[129]
Oh hey so that's what the thumb is for
|

Darius JOHNSON
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.05.24 05:42:00 -
[130]
Edited by: Darius JOHNSON on 24/05/2008 05:43:05
Originally by: Silence Duegood
Originally by: Gordon Antilis No Support!
Goonswarm has done a lot for the community, and have single handedly destroyed far worse enemies in the Eve Universe. Goons wouldn't have been voted in if the people didn't want it.
The above is the stupidest post I've read in a long while.
I'll be sitting on the edge of my seat waiting for you to cite some examples of what wonderous things GS has done for the community (DoS attacks and racial/sexist discriminatory remarks don't really count, btw).
This game (let alone the CSM board) would be a far better place without them and their petulance.
The examples you've asked for are all over. In my CSM thread for one. The attacks and whetever you're allegating simply haven't occurred. Show proof or get out. Goonswarm has never, ever engaged in any illegal activity.
:edit: I'd like to note that you're the petulant one ITT.
|
|

El'Niaga
Republic Military School
|
Posted - 2008.05.24 10:25:00 -
[131]
Though I am no fan of Goonswarm (or most of the 0.0 powers), I think this is presumptious at best. Lets give them at least a chance.
|

Xofii
Hedion University
|
Posted - 2008.05.25 20:07:00 -
[132]
Do not support
|

Silence Duegood
|
Posted - 2008.05.26 04:08:00 -
[133]
Originally by: Darius JOHNSON
The examples you've asked for are all over. In my CSM thread for one. The attacks and whetever you're allegating simply haven't occurred. Show proof or get out. Goonswarm has never, ever engaged in any illegal activity.
:edit: I'd like to note that you're the petulant one ITT.
Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha...
Seriously, are you delusional? I mean, GS is famous for what among the playerbase? Furthering the game? Helping people? No.
Goatse links, sponsorship scams, sexism, racism, griefing, GS members/leadership have even openly admitted to wanting to disrupt and/or ruin the game for others en masse.
What proof do I need? It's common knowledge the GS was responsible for the DoS attacks on EVE/CCP a while back. People know and have observed what you all do. You can be delusional in your blog all you'd like regarding how amazing GS is for the community. However, most people with half a brain can spend a week in the game and find out for themselves that GS is held in low regard for a reason - you all are childish and play the game to 'win' and to grief people.
|

LaVista Vista
Conservative Shenanigans Party
|
Posted - 2008.05.26 05:48:00 -
[134]
Originally by: Darius JOHNSON Goonswarm has never, ever engaged in any illegal activity.
Darius, did you read this devblog?
Quote:
The fact that this attack took place over a holiday weekend was especially revealing of motive, which we believe was specifically by design to ensure that CCP would not be able to react as fast and efficiently as we would under normal circumstances. The allegations investigated above by this internal affairs department will also be examined by our legal resources, as we do not intend to sit idly by while our servers, community and reputation are under attack.
As far as I can see, this devblog actually talks about legal matters.
|

Ameliorate
|
Posted - 2008.05.26 06:33:00 -
[135]
Offering my support to prevent EVE becoming Something Awful or Goons in Space.
|

Jowen Datloran
Science and Trade Institute
|
Posted - 2008.05.26 11:18:00 -
[136]
Originally by: LaVista Vista
Darius, did you read this devblog?
Oh, I had nearly forgotten about that.
Guess I won't now. ---------------- Mr. Science & Trade Institute |

Silence Duegood
|
Posted - 2008.05.26 20:12:00 -
[137]
Edited by: Silence Duegood on 26/05/2008 20:12:21
Originally by: LaVista Vista
Originally by: Darius JOHNSON Goonswarm has never, ever engaged in any illegal activity.
Darius, did you read this devblog?
Yep, Goonswarm are GREAT for the community!
 
|

Theramin Dogon
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.05.26 22:47:00 -
[138]
Edited by: Theramin Dogon on 26/05/2008 22:56:29 I support your vote of no confidence thread, as well as your "**** goons" stance.
Originally by: Silence Duegood I mean, GS is famous for what among the playerbase? Furthering the game? Helping people? No.
So I guess you've never heard of a little program called "EVEmon". And are you implying that having two members on the CSM board is detrimental to the game somehow? It's not like Darius and Bane will be able to strongarm anybody, and the two of them actually understand how the game works.
Pretty much everybody is going to feel like they didn't get represented...but only 10% of the population voted. If you're going to be angry at someone, there's a huge block of voters out there who didn't vote the way you did. Be angry at them.
|

Kyrie Elaison
GoonFleet
|
Posted - 2008.05.26 23:01:00 -
[139]
Edited by: Kyrie Elaison on 26/05/2008 23:03:06
Originally by: Silence Duegood
Originally by: Darius JOHNSON
The examples you've asked for are all over. In my CSM thread for one. The attacks and whetever you're allegating simply haven't occurred. Show proof or get out. Goonswarm has never, ever engaged in any illegal activity.
:edit: I'd like to note that you're the petulant one ITT.
Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha...
Seriously, are you delusional? I mean, GS is famous for what among the playerbase? Furthering the game? Helping people? No.
Goatse links, sponsorship scams, sexism, racism, griefing, GS members/leadership have even openly admitted to wanting to disrupt and/or ruin the game for others en masse.
What proof do I need? It's common knowledge the GS was responsible for the DoS attacks on EVE/CCP a while back. People know and have observed what you all do. You can be delusional in your blog all you'd like regarding how amazing GS is for the community. However, most people with half a brain can spend a week in the game and find out for themselves that GS is held in low regard for a reason - you all are childish and play the game to 'win' and to grief people.
You're a moron. If eve can (more or less) handle 30k + connections simultaneously, I'm sure eve-o can handle a few thousand posts in the span of an hour (you know, just like it does everyday). Seriously, not even CCP has ever intimated that this was anything criminal*, so it boggles the mind why you continue to beat that drum.
*Because you're dumb, I know you won't understand the difference between civil and criminal liability.
|

Silence Duegood
|
Posted - 2008.05.27 16:35:00 -
[140]
Originally by: Theramin Dogon Edited by: Theramin Dogon on 26/05/2008 22:56:29 I support your vote of no confidence thread, as well as your "**** goons" stance.
Originally by: Silence Duegood I mean, GS is famous for what among the playerbase? Furthering the game? Helping people? No.
So I guess you've never heard of a little program called "EVEmon".
This is about the most inane thing I've read in a while. That someone would post something so fundamentally lacking in reason and logic is pretty incredible. However, this is Goons we're talking about.
What one or two members do with a piece of software does not speak to the entirety of Goonswarm. Did you all help with the development of the programs? Were you all pecking at the keyboard like a thousand monkies to assist with the software?
Goonswarm IN GENERAL have demonstrated through actions and blatant admissions that it is their intention to ruin the game for others, and to grief people out of the game through any means necessary.
The actions (and admissions) of hundreds of you speak to the group as a whole. That one or two of you develop some useful software does not.
Nice try though. I'll look forward to more Goons bumping this thread.
|
|

Esmenet
|
Posted - 2008.05.27 16:41:00 -
[141]
Originally by: Silence Duegood stuff
Your own posts show that the goons give a certain flavour to the game that is valuable.
|

procurement specialist
|
Posted - 2008.05.27 17:45:00 -
[142]
Originally by: Calyce I agree to an extent. The council themselves should be able to ahve a vote of no confidence in other members, but only after they have had time to see what the person is like/doing.
This whole bloomin no confidence before the CSM has even done anything is completely stupid.
The two goonies who were voted in I have confidence in, but some of the utter ****ers who happen to be in the same alliance shoud be banned from the human race.
On the whole I'd say, no, we voters shouldn't have any more say in the matter once we have voted the members in. Thes rest should be up to the CSM candidates that we voted for.
If you didn't vote, then maybe next time you will actually bother to vote.
silence == acceptance.
quotin dis
|

memyselfand I
|
Posted - 2008.05.27 19:15:00 -
[143]
Originally by: Claire Lacombe Subverting electoral systems by those who gain power seems like a good way to introduce credibility into such a fledgling system.
Explains George Bush's election as president the first time then.........
|

Silence Duegood
|
Posted - 2008.05.28 17:06:00 -
[144]
Originally by: Esmenet
Your own posts show that the goons give a certain flavour to the game that is valuable.
What an amazing example of a Goon alt typing some words yet saying nothing.
|

OldPueblo
DarkStar 1 GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.05.28 18:57:00 -
[145]
Originally by: Silence Duegood
Originally by: Theramin Dogon Edited by: Theramin Dogon on 26/05/2008 22:56:29 I support your vote of no confidence thread, as well as your "**** goons" stance.
Originally by: Silence Duegood I mean, GS is famous for what among the playerbase? Furthering the game? Helping people? No.
So I guess you've never heard of a little program called "EVEmon".
This is about the most inane thing I've read in a while. That someone would post something so fundamentally lacking in reason and logic is pretty incredible. However, this is Goons we're talking about.
What one or two members do with a piece of software does not speak to the entirety of Goonswarm. Did you all help with the development of the programs? Were you all pecking at the keyboard like a thousand monkies to assist with the software?
Goonswarm IN GENERAL have demonstrated through actions and blatant admissions that it is their intention to ruin the game for others, and to grief people out of the game through any means necessary.
The actions (and admissions) of hundreds of you speak to the group as a whole. That one or two of you develop some useful software does not.
Nice try though. I'll look forward to more Goons bumping this thread.
I don't think you have a clue about anything IN GENERAL regarding GoonSwarm. The alleged "forum DDOS" was actually orchestrated by a maximum of three goons using multiple eve clients inside vmware virtual machines using heavy scripting.
|

Ulstan
|
Posted - 2008.05.28 19:01:00 -
[146]
Edited by: Ulstan on 28/05/2008 19:03:41 If elected CSM members are not taking their role seriously and are instead planning to use it to cause trouble, then they shouldn't be CSM members. Simple as that.
I have no idea whether the goons in question do or do not fall into this category, however. I have no problems with the Goon tag. There are Goonies who can be responsible and mature as the occasion demands. If the two CSM's are in that category, we have no problem.
|

Joza Gulikoza
The first genesis Veritas Immortalis
|
Posted - 2008.05.28 19:43:00 -
[147]
Goony smell gtfo
|

Squirrrel
Squirrrel Industries
|
Posted - 2008.05.28 21:19:00 -
[148]
Vote is as vote does. No.
|

Draygo Korvan
Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.05.29 04:19:00 -
[149]
Originally by: Jowen Datloran
Originally by: LaVista Vista
Darius, did you read this devblog?
Oh, I had nearly forgotten about that.
Guess I won't now.
And guess why we have the CSM. (hint hint its a direct result of these sort of things). --
|

Phroneo
Southern Cross Incorporated Southern Cross Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.05.29 06:50:00 -
[150]
I've read some terrible things about Goons, spoken/written by goons. -- It may be that the old astrologers had the truth exactly reversed, when they believed that the stars controlled the destinies of men. The time may come when men control the destinies of stars. ACC |
|

LordSwift
New Eden Regimental Navy
|
Posted - 2008.05.29 10:11:00 -
[151]
Originally by: schneirder Members of Goonfleet have done nothing but damage this game, and I support this.
I support this proposal. Down with goonswarm. Dont get why people in Goonswarm are still in the group if they feel this way
|

Sapphrine
Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude Ushra'Khan
|
Posted - 2008.05.29 15:32:00 -
[152]
no support. Generally i think goons are annoying but to bar them from an elected body becase their play style? no.
If people felt strong enough to remove them they'd have voted for other candidates in the first place.
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 :: [one page] |