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[Issue] Low sec sentry guns completely obsolete

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Arthmandar Valikari	Posted - 2008.08.19 23:14:00 - [91] I support this, but not for the reason specified. I think that the guns probably do a fine job now... but I think it would be good for Eve to make it easier to travel somewhere in lowsec. Gatecamping is boring to those as do it, and lame and frustrating to those that receive it. I would rather encourage more people to get into lowsec, where more interesting fights can happen at stations, belts, POSes, etc. Remember, everyone traveling in lowsec is on their way somewhere. I would prefer to push combat to that somewhere rather than on the gates, and I think this would help. So, /signed.
Deej Montana Outbound Flight	Posted - 2008.08.20 20:29:00 - [92] Originally by: DiamondEdges If you fear for your badger that much, go to high sec cause LOW SEC, is suppose to be LOW sec not high sec. And yet they complain that there's no one in low sec for them to hunt. Jeez, at least be consistent.... But I agree that the guns should be brought in line with today's ships.
DEATHsyphon Gallente IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2008.08.21 02:10:00 - [93] DEATHsyphon looks around and sees all the people in support are on our Alliances KB. Low sec already needs a boost sooooo Yeahhh NO. Also I'm pretty sure Sentry Guns have seen some changes since 2004.
Le Skunk Low Sec Liberators	Posted - 2008.08.21 10:45:00 - [94] Originally by: Arthmandar Valikari I would rather encourage more people to get into lowsec, where more interesting fights can happen at stations, belts, POSes, etc. Yes.... Fights at belts: Yes there are many fights at belts, due to the rubbish roids and piddly frigate npc bounties. Fights at Station: Yes, there are many fights at stations, where people can tank and dock whenever they want Fights at POS - Yes lets fight at a pos- where there are guns, neut batterys, jams batteries, and a convienient shield for the defender to sit afk in. Fights at etc: There is no ETC. The only place to get a target with any degree of regularity is at a gate. The sentry guns in their present state: Already encourage blobbing to help tanking... Q:"YOU GUYS ARE BIG BULLIES WHY YOU NOT 1V1 ME" A:Because previous carebear whines lead to sentry guns being set up, then another whine lead to them being indestructable. As such a gang is neccesary to take out a target Prevent 50% of ships and fittings being used by the outlaws. No intys to tackle, no close jammers, no nano fits, heavy tanks mandatory, remote reps advisory. This thread is supported by a few bears who may have been into low sec once or twice and got ganked and have no experience of being an outlaw. SKUNK
K1RTH G3RS3N Hanzai Soshiki BROTHERS GRIM.	Posted - 2008.08.21 11:07:00 - [95] Edited by: K1RTH G3RS3N on 21/08/2008 11:07:35 Originally by: Conrad Rock Signed, this will force pirates to have bigger camps, so overall, there will be less camped low-sec systems. no - there will just be more blobs. being a pirate will therefor require being in big ass blobs. another update to increase fleet sizes. fail.
K1RTH G3RS3N Hanzai Soshiki BROTHERS GRIM.	Posted - 2008.08.21 11:13:00 - [96] Originally by: K1RTH G3RS3N Edited by: K1RTH G3RS3N on 21/08/2008 11:07:35 Originally by: Conrad Rock Signed, this will force pirates to have bigger camps, so overall, there will be less camped low-sec systems. no - there will just be more blobs. being a pirate will therefor require being in big ass blobs. another update to increase fleet sizes. fail. also there are enough penalties for being an outlaw as it is. like you cant fire on ppl without sentry agression but they can fire on you... and then your friend cant help without taking sentry fire etc etc etc. but its good like that because if it was great being a pirate then everyone would be then it would suk so meh.
MirrorGod Heretic Militia	Posted - 2008.08.21 11:26:00 - [97] Epicly, NO Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.
Zarch AlDain Hematite Rose Bionic Dawn	Posted - 2008.08.21 12:14:00 - [98] Originally by: Heartstone Low Sec sentires need to be buffed a bit but also graded so the closer to High Sec they are the more problematic they are. For instance. 0.4 150% DPS of current 0.3 125% DPS of current 0.2 100% DPS of current 0.1 75% DPS of current or something similar. That way there would be more meaning to the security status. Seems reasonable, sentry drone fire is pretty feeble atm.
Zaranya Amarr	Posted - 2008.08.25 17:50:00 - [99] Edited by: Zaranya Amarr on 25/08/2008 17:50:38 Support. But... Tweak the guns to lay waste (quickly) to capitals, battleships, battlecruisers, etc. Tweak the guns to do little to no damage on t1 cruisers, assault frigates, interceptors, frigates, stealth bombers, etc. Maybe this would make for far more fun small ship PvP on the gates. The asteroid belts (that currently have no one in them because they die trying to get in low sec) will start to fill up a bit as the reward is comparable to the risk. This means more targets and you can still use your pimp gatecamp Battleship to blow up people in belts. This is good for everyone, pirates and pvpers will be much happier to have more people coming in and having to use a bit more strategy than sit, tank, and overwhelm. Traders in their big fat industrials might have a chance, might. Intermediate players will have an exciting place to rat or mission before getting the skills to step out onto the 0.0 playing field. Either way you can still die but you might last a minute or two which is much more satisfying than watching your ship disappear in a blaze of fire ending your 5 second journey into low sec.
Another Forum'Alt	Posted - 2008.08.25 18:39:00 - [100]
NightmareX MAFIA Pirate Coalition	Posted - 2008.08.25 18:50:00 - [101] Edited by: NightmareX on 25/08/2008 18:57:13 I'm a bit late in this topic, but to you guys who support this, i have a question to you. Was the HP buff on all ships meant to let the ships last longer in fights or to let the ships pop as fast as they did before the HP buff? If you answer that the HP buff was meant to let the ship live longer, then why are you supporting this thing by saying increase the DPS on the sentrys. The ships wont last longer if they increase the DPS on sentrys. That's the reason for the HP buff, to let ships live longer. But no, not signed from me.
Unreal5 Malicious Intentions	Posted - 2008.08.25 21:53:00 - [102] no. stupid idea ASD
Mister Xerox	Posted - 2008.08.25 23:01:00 - [103] Senries should be upgraded to be more in-line with existing POS modules. There should, of course, be guns... and those guns should do a respectable amount of damage (150-200 DPS per gun, all types), but there also need to be ECM sentries, Cap Neut sentries, Webbing sentries, ect. Just no scrambling sentries (let the PCs/rats do that).
Piru Industrial	Posted - 2008.08.25 23:06:00 - [104] Edited by: Piru Industrial on 25/08/2008 23:07:10 Originally by: Leandro Salazar Originally by: Rawr Cristina the only way I would be happy with a buff to sentry gun DPS is if the tracking got nerfed. buffing sentry DPS by itself is going to do nothing but force people to use even bigger camps than they already do. Yes, buffing their damage will only make people use bigger gangs. As long as the sentries split their fire. Now if sentries did the same damage to ALL ships regardless of gang size, the gang size would not matter anymore at least for sentry tanking, and thus remove one encouragement for bigger blobs. Nerfing sentry tracking would be utterly wrong imho, currently the only redeeming thing about lowsec is that nano**gots can't tank sentries very well, so lowsec actually provides 'normal' combat and most camps are escapable in fast ships because they have no inties. quoted for best signature. ps. i dislike my ship getting blowed up when i dont want it do as much as the next guy, but to me gate camps are fine the way they are now. ive lost a good deal of money to pirates. though most of those were by accident as i am fortunate enough to have a 2nd account from which i can scout from. - The ISK must* flow..
Confirmed Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.08.26 16:56:00 - [105]
Larkonis Trassler Neo Spartans	Posted - 2008.08.26 18:04:00 - [106] No. This thread is full of people, many of whom I think will have had little or no lowsec experience aside from maybe being ganked in an AP hauler or some such. Ramp up the damage from the guns and it will only result in bigger camps, which are harder to break, resulting in less fights and more gankage of unsuspecting passers by. The guns prevent the use of small fast tacklers and nanoships on the gates. That is good enough for me. Stick to the highsec pipes if you don't want heavy camps. If you change this it will make things slightly harder for 'weaker' pirate corps but the big ones will still flourish and profit off the traffic the weaker camps are no longer picking up. OP Fails. Assumption of Risk
Akiba Penrose The Movement	Posted - 2008.08.26 21:23:00 - [107] Sentries should be removed. They do not help those caught in a gate camp, sentries makes no difference to them. The only time sentries makes a difference is when pirates meets Anti pirates, then they work as a excuse not to fight. Keep sentries at high sec/low sec boarder gates and stations, remove the rest.
SgtDeaux	Posted - 2008.08.27 11:36:00 - [108] Ive played both sides of this card...I think we need to do whatever would encourage more people to rat in low sec and mine in low sec... Targets or opportunities to make isk in low sec depending on your version of eve are being coming harder to come by. More often than not a outing of some relaxing pvp is disrupted by a blob of other people trying to get some relaxing pvp..mostly blobbed because engauging something on a gate in anything less than a t2 ship or t2 fitted ship solo is suicide.. There are characters that rely upon the gateguns as half their dps in pvp.. See AMI on any weekday night.. attack the thorax on the gate then watch the gank mega appear. The gate guns are becoming too much of a crutch for some and a hinderance for others... CCP bring back benefits for carebears who brave low sec... Give them greater rewards.. and stop punishing the pvp'ers who attempt to educate the carebears on the ways of low sec living.
SFX Bladerunner Naval Protection Corp Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2008.08.27 12:09:00 - [109] Originally by: Ishina Fel Sounds fair enough, though it is hardly a pressing issue. well, I personally would have to disagree with you. Right now, as it is, someone in a BROADSWORD (yes, ive seen it done, ive been blown up by it) can just gatecamp a 0.4 system at 0m from the gate and shoot stuff up. I do not believe CCP ever intended one person to just be able to (pirate) gatecamp a 0.4 system gate, or atleast i really hope so. I totally agree that low-sec guns need boosting. __________________________________________________ History is much like an endless waltz, the three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever..
rimpula Rehtirepen pisnes ja pilkkiseura	Posted - 2008.08.27 13:42:00 - [110]
Amberly Coteaz Amarr The Black Rabbits The Gurlstas Associates	Posted - 2008.08.27 15:31:00 - [111] Originally by: SFX Bladerunner Originally by: Ishina Fel Sounds fair enough, though it is hardly a pressing issue. well, I personally would have to disagree with you. Right now, as it is, someone in a BROADSWORD (yes, ive seen it done, ive been blown up by it) can just gatecamp a 0.4 system at 0m from the gate and shoot stuff up. I do not believe CCP ever intended one person to just be able to (pirate) gatecamp a 0.4 system gate, or atleast i really hope so. I totally agree that low-sec guns need boosting. My god man, what failure of a ship were you flying to die to a lone broadsword on a gate? Anything frigate sized can warp off before the broadsword gets a lock. Any battlecruiser with a reasonable fit can kill an agressed broadsword or tank long enough to jump through the gate (hint free 350 dps) Battleships are in the same position as the Battlecruiser. Which leaves cruiser hulls which can ewar, burn away from, tank or gank (free 350 dps) said broadsword depending on specific ship. If you died in an unscouted hauler/mining ship then its your own fault for being silly, a fool and his ISK are soon parted. Sentry gun DPS is fine. If you find yourself in a fair fight, something went wrong Originally by: Patch86 OK people, Amberly Coteaz has won life for the time being. Everyone go home and wait for the round reset.
Ackuula	Posted - 2008.08.27 18:13:00 - [112] add in a "warp to 200km" and I'd support this
SFX Bladerunner Naval Protection Corp Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2008.08.29 09:11:00 - [113] Originally by: Amberly Coteaz Originally by: SFX Bladerunner Originally by: Ishina Fel Sounds fair enough, though it is hardly a pressing issue. well, I personally would have to disagree with you. Right now, as it is, someone in a BROADSWORD (yes, ive seen it done, ive been blown up by it) can just gatecamp a 0.4 system at 0m from the gate and shoot stuff up. I do not believe CCP ever intended one person to just be able to (pirate) gatecamp a 0.4 system gate, or atleast i really hope so. I totally agree that low-sec guns need boosting. My god man, what failure of a ship were you flying to die to a lone broadsword on a gate? Anything frigate sized can warp off before the broadsword gets a lock. Any battlecruiser with a reasonable fit can kill an agressed broadsword or tank long enough to jump through the gate (hint free 350 dps) Battleships are in the same position as the Battlecruiser. Which leaves cruiser hulls which can ewar, burn away from, tank or gank (free 350 dps) said broadsword depending on specific ship. If you died in an unscouted hauler/mining ship then its your own fault for being silly, a fool and his ISK are soon parted. Sentry gun DPS is fine. well, it was in a hauler I scouted the damn gate with an alt right before though. Yes you are right, any decent combat ship would have survived... hell I survived a 15man T2 0.4 gatecamp in a travel fitted DRAKE by just turning on mwd and reapproaching gate while they were locking me and trying to get through my shield (got me down to about 30% before I could jump out). My biggest concern though isn't that a broadsword or similar ship could kill a hauler on a 0.4 gate.. the biggest concern I have is that sometimes haulers NEED to go into 0.4 for stuff like agent missions etc. Now if only battleships etc were able to solo camp 0.4 gates a hauler could probably make it out, which would make it more fair in my opinion. Personally, I used to do missions in Gelfiven (borders 2 0.4 systems) untill new ships and probing patches came up and pirates started camping those 2 0.4 systems excessively and probing out missioners in those systems. I spent about an hour looking for a good lvl4 agent in empire that WON'T send you to 0.4 or below systems, and found ONE good agent with 0.5 or above systems in all directions for 4 jumps. just ONE. missioning in empire just isn't fun anymore because of the constant fear of pirates/probers. __________________________________________________ History is much like an endless waltz, the three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever..
Lt Angus Caldari Lt Angus Corp	Posted - 2008.08.29 09:57:00 - [114] bunch of people who don't know what they are talking about, Have you seen the setups we need to tank sentrys, if anyone comes in a pvp fit we die, luckily hardly anyone ever fights back. Shhhh, Im hunting Badgers
Tuleingel	Posted - 2008.08.29 12:49:00 - [115] Yea! Let's nerf em all !
Amberly Coteaz Amarr The Black Rabbits The Gurlstas Associates	Posted - 2008.08.29 13:54:00 - [116] Originally by: SFX Bladerunner Originally by: Amberly Coteaz Originally by: SFX Bladerunner Originally by: Ishina Fel Snip snip snip well, it was in a hauler I scouted the damn gate with an alt right before though. Yes you are right, any decent combat ship would have survived... hell I survived a 15man T2 0.4 gatecamp in a travel fitted DRAKE by just turning on mwd and reapproaching gate while they were locking me and trying to get through my shield (got me down to about 30% before I could jump out). My biggest concern though isn't that a broadsword or similar ship could kill a hauler on a 0.4 gate.. the biggest concern I have is that sometimes haulers NEED to go into 0.4 for stuff like agent missions etc. Now if only battleships etc were able to solo camp 0.4 gates a hauler could probably make it out, which would make it more fair in my opinion. Personally, I used to do missions in Gelfiven (borders 2 0.4 systems) untill new ships and probing patches came up and pirates started camping those 2 0.4 systems excessively and probing out missioners in those systems. I spent about an hour looking for a good lvl4 agent in empire that WON'T send you to 0.4 or below systems, and found ONE good agent with 0.5 or above systems in all directions for 4 jumps. just ONE. missioning in empire just isn't fun anymore because of the constant fear of pirates/probers. Then you scouted badly and its still your own fault for getting killed. You admit that and decently fit combat ship would have survived the engagement, yet still think that you should be able to waltz on through in a none combat ship with near impunity. Really sentry DPS is right on the mark in my opinion. It discourages solo gate camping whilst still being viable and it gives certain tactical advantages to an attacking side: less drones, no frigate hulls, limited use of cruiser hulls, lack of shield buffer on armour tankers, lower cap from tanking, less cap charges, less gank the list goes on... If you find yourself in a fair fight, something went wrong Originally by: Patch86 OK people, Amberly Coteaz has won life for the time being. Everyone go home and wait for the round reset.
Pithecanthropus	Posted - 2008.08.29 14:57:00 - [117] I'll support this, even tho its been 3 years since I've been ganked at a gate. --------------------------------- Pithecanthropus erectus, a name derived from Greek and Latin roots meaning upright ape-man.
oilio State War Academy	Posted - 2008.08.30 04:45:00 - [118] Ship tanks are better. Sentry guns haven't improved. Improve Sentry guns - it may be one of the steps that gets more people to go into low sec.
Zara Skyray Caldari DEADLY RENEGADE ELITE ASSASSIN MERC SQUAD	Posted - 2008.08.31 02:00:00 - [119] Edited by: Zara Skyray on 31/08/2008 02:09:10 Not signed - not even a little. Sentry guns already do their job - i.e. providing a consequence for lowsec piracy - quite well. As many have pointed out, it takes a BS, Commandship, Hictor or specialized BC/HAC to tank the guns. Many have complained that these ships can "instapop a badger" etc. My response? Of course they can. They SHOULD for Pete's sake! Your badger costs 1 mil for the hull and 20mil for mods if you go all out. The minimum cost of a good solo gatecamp ship is about 80-100mil. I could get into comparitive skill points, but suffice to say that gatecamp ships also require MANY mroe SP than industrials. Any system which made it such that these ships couldn't kill your 1-20mil badger would be horribly broken. If you want to travel through lowsec in relative safety, hire a scout, get a transport ship or rig your ship out such that it aligns too quickly for a big nasty BS or BC to chase you down. In other words, invest more SP and ISK - that's what the pirates have to do. Shouldn't you have to do the same to beat them? Finally, I feel that it is worth mentioning that increasing sentry DPS will only make gatecamps larger. Fewer? Yes. But MUCH larger. Solo/small team gatecamps aren't too bad for travel - they are beatable. You can conceivably get a ship through them or even put together a fleet to kill them/chase them off. Large gatecamps are soul-destroying monsters against which there is little defense and almost no possibility of attack. Lets NOT create a system which encourages more of them.
irion felpamy Minmatar HellJumpers Corp United For 0rder	Posted - 2008.08.31 02:18:00 - [120] sentrys limit the role of small ships without making it impossible to fight around them, they are a deterrant and work to swing the balance of small scale fights. no change required.

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