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Jack Gilligan
Dragon's Rage
Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2008.05.22 19:04:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Jack Gilligan on 22/05/2008 19:04:37
As things stand, people in alliances are not going to be allowed to participate in any of the content of the upcoming expansion.
The Devs have stated reasons (such as preventing the 0.0 powerblocs from dominating), but there is no avoiding that anyway, as those denied participation will still be able to show up and gank those who are.
I believe that allowing alliances to align with the factions and participate will HELP, not hinder, the stated goal of FW being a "bridge" to the 0.0 pvp endgame by introducing those in empire to the 0.0 alliances as they natually interact in the common goal of achieving control for the common faction they support. This will be infinitely preferable to the interaction being alliance blob shows up, militia members ganked.
I propose that factional warfare not be added to EVE unless alliance members can participate fully.
My opinions are my own and do not reflect those of my corporation or alliance. |
zykerx
Pegasus Mining and Securities
R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2008.05.22 19:07:00 -
[2]
agreed
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"MY COMMENTS IN NO WAY REFLECT MY CORP OR ALLIANCE"
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Herschel Yamamoto
Bloodmoney Incorporated
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Posted - 2008.05.22 19:17:00 -
[3]
It's way, way too late to actually have this be implemented in Empyrean Age, but I agree that it should be changed ASAP. It was a stupid decision, and it should be changed.
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Fix the forums! |
Haakelen
United Forces
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Posted - 2008.05.22 19:18:00 -
[4]
There should be some mechanics change to allow players in an alliance to not be excluded from FW. Whether that means participation on a player, corp, or alliance level, is up to CCP, and should be carefully balanced.
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Jack Gilligan
Dragon's Rage
Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2008.05.22 19:21:00 -
[5]
 Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto
It's way, way too late to actually have this be implemented in Empyrean Age, but I agree that it should be changed ASAP. It was a stupid decision, and it should be changed.
Actually they've stated that they could do it. It's that they don't want to do it.
When they delayed FW before they promised that it was so that it wouldn't be broken and half assed. A pvp FW that excludes a large amount of the player base is obviously both broken and half done.
My opinions are my own and do not reflect those of my corporation or alliance. |
Herschel Yamamoto
Bloodmoney Incorporated
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Posted - 2008.05.22 19:29:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Jack Gilligan
Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto
It's way, way too late to actually have this be implemented in Empyrean Age, but I agree that it should be changed ASAP. It was a stupid decision, and it should be changed.
Actually they've stated that they could do it. It's that they don't want to do it.
When they delayed FW before they promised that it was so that it wouldn't be broken and half assed. A pvp FW that excludes a large amount of the player base is obviously both broken and half done.
By that I mean that we can't change their minds at this point. I'm not defending the decision, merely saying that it's been made(...for now).
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Fix the forums! |
Jalmari Huitsikko
Karjala Inc.
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Posted - 2008.05.22 19:31:00 -
[7]
FW will need a lot working and people in alliances need to be able to participate in it too. However. Big alliances would start to dominate it pretty fast so maybe alliance level FW should happen in 0.0. Also, I think there should be very strict faction standing requirements for joining your corp or alliance in FW so you can't just go hopping from side to another as you please. FW should require certain dedication to roleplaying aspects instead of being a mere pvp arena for newbies/casual empire dwellers.
Still I think introducing FW as planned will be a good thing.
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Jack Gilligan
Dragon's Rage
Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2008.05.22 22:41:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Jack Gilligan on 22/05/2008 22:41:12
Originally by: Jalmari Huitsikko
FW will need a lot working and people in alliances need to be able to participate in it too. However. Big alliances would start to dominate it pretty fast so maybe alliance level FW should happen in 0.0. Also, I think there should be very strict faction standing requirements for joining your corp or alliance in FW so you can't just go hopping from side to another as you please. FW should require certain dedication to roleplaying aspects instead of being a mere pvp arena for newbies/casual empire dwellers.
Still I think introducing FW as planned will be a good thing.
They are going to be involved ANYWAY. The FW complexes will be killboard fodder. Better to give alliances a role so that they will be constructive, not disruptive.
My opinions are my own and do not reflect those of my corporation or alliance. |
Treelox
Market Jihadist Revolutionary Party
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Posted - 2008.05.22 22:47:00 -
[9]
/thumb spam
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Lord WarATron
Black Nova Corp
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.05.22 23:04:00 -
[10]
Would be intresting
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Billion Isk Mission |
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Yara Stone
Southern Productions
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Posted - 2008.05.22 23:16:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Yara Stone on 22/05/2008 23:15:50
I think if we exclude anybody from the patch content they will find a way to include themselfs. 
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Ephemeral Waves
Federation of Freedom Fighters
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Posted - 2008.05.22 23:19:00 -
[12]
agreed.
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Sally Bestonge
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.05.22 23:20:00 -
[13]
well you can "participate" if you could blowing up everyone who actually wanted to participate or alts.
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Scagga Laebetrovo
Delictum 23216
San Matari.
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Posted - 2008.05.22 23:45:00 -
[14]
I've changed my initial standpoint on this issue. I don't think, with the FW structure as it is now, that alliances should be permitted to take part.
I would press for an enhancement of the existing mechanics whereby alliances could participate as part of a better system.
San Matari Official forums |
Fallorn
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.05.23 00:32:00 -
[15]
It would show people the lag we complain about. It would also allow RP alliances to have fun and other alliances to have semi-priviteer like wars. More things to kill and to go ride bikes in empire isn't a bad thing.
Sig removed. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] with a link to your signature. - Elmo Pug
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maltari
Eve University
Ivy League
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Posted - 2008.05.23 01:16:00 -
[16]
Agreed. As it is now, it seems meant for new players or alts. Corps shouldn't have to leave their alliances to participate.
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Zeknichov
Imperial Shipment
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Posted - 2008.05.23 01:21:00 -
[17]
Alliances are just going to have dummy corps with their alts partake in faction wars. Not allowing alliance members to use their mains is a slap in the face. I fully support allowing alliances into factional warfare.
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Jonny Damordred
Stimulus
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Posted - 2008.05.23 01:35:00 -
[18]
I just put up a possible solution to this here: Linkage
But yah, it's unfair for so many to be locked out of FW...
Cheers,
Jonny D.
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CEO and Professor of Gunboat Diplomacy |
Rodj Blake
PIE Inc.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
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Posted - 2008.05.23 09:56:00 -
[19]
Agreed.
Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
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Space Explorer
Evil Fluffy Bunnies
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Posted - 2008.05.23 10:00:00 -
[20]
I would only allow this for RP alliances, but since that will be very hard to implement i don't think this is a good idea.
No 0.0 powerblocks ruling FW pls, let FW have their own powerblocks.
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Milamar Tokugawa
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Posted - 2008.05.23 11:30:00 -
[21]
I find it quite stupid. Wasnt this meant for new players to get some easy pvp? For new people it is easier to live with a big alliance that protects and trains you for 0.0 possibly. These new players dont have the isk to have an non-alliance alt to do FW! Please CCP, let us newer players to get into pvp and still participate to alliance!
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The Hooch
Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.23 12:42:00 -
[22]
agreed, let everyone play!
Concord punishes people, it does not protect them |
Maor Raor
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Posted - 2008.05.23 12:53:00 -
[23]
I feel that Alliances have enough power in game without having total control over FW also.
Big no from me.
Leave FW for small corps and solo players.. Alliances already have everything else.
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Dav Varan
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Posted - 2008.05.23 13:32:00 -
[24]
Can non alliance players have unrestricted ( not affected by cyno jammers ) access to alliance space as well please.
FW is meant as an introduction to PvP and 0.0.
Alliances have there own wars to fight , keep alliances out of FW.
Any player can take part in FW allready , you just need to leave your alliance.
We dont need Alliance politics in low sec , no thanks. |
Skogen Gump
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Posted - 2008.05.23 13:40:00 -
[25]
My support, you lost it 
But seriously; with full respect to the respectable members, what would happen to Factional Warfare if you let the Goons in, or perhaps Bob or another similarly puissant force ?
It'd ruin it - that's what it'd do.
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Vanagib
mega mining corporation
Pure.
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Posted - 2008.05.23 13:41:00 -
[26]
Agreed.
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Etil DeLaFuente
Res Publica
Cosmic Anomalies
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Posted - 2008.05.24 12:29:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Etil DeLaFuente on 24/05/2008 12:30:40
Not supported.
FW is more like RP imo, so alliances shouldn't be able to join it unless their members are only from one race and then able to fight for it.
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Ethaet
Aliastra
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Posted - 2008.05.24 13:01:00 -
[28]
I support this. Many alliances like to RP, excluding them just because they want to be part of something larger while still RPing is wrong.
The 'x large 0.0 alliance joining and bringing in 500 capships' can be easily avoided - make it so RPer alliances must be added to FW by ISD or whoever - not just any alliance can join.
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Seriously, we need some kind of separation between the post and signature.
There you go. Now that wasn't so hard  |
Xanja
2H Industries
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Posted - 2008.05.24 13:14:00 -
[29]
agree
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Deldrac
Bat Country
Aegis Militia
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Posted - 2008.05.24 14:51:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Deldrac on 24/05/2008 14:51:52
Originally by: Skogen Gump
what would happen to Factional Warfare if you let the Goons in, or perhaps Bob or another similarly puissant force ?
It'd ruin it - that's what it'd do.
But Goons will be in.
I understand they are currently choosing which faction to support.
They'll just create a twinked alt corp.
Banning alliance members just irritates the RP alliances, and prevents participation from small scale primarily-empire-space alliances who can't be bothered with alt corps (ie. most alliances).
And for what? There is no advantage in doing it this way, unless it is just that it is easier to program.
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Pliauga
Militek Industries
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Posted - 2008.05.24 18:07:00 -
[31]
I opose this proposition. Thumbs down.
However, I do agree there is a problem. CCP simply chose the lesser of two evils. Which is a good thing. So stop flaming them for that. Or atleast wait until empyrean age is out and see how it works out (I do understand it could end up very very broken).
However, a solution to that problem, in my mind, could be 0.0 alternatives to the faction militias. Faction warfare 0.0 edition. or smth like that. There is lots of room for improovment.
(please flame responsibly)
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DRONE love rulez!! 'mkay?!
LONG range/"OUT OF SYSTEM" artillery |
jade ronin
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Posted - 2008.05.24 18:12:00 -
[32]
thumbs down as well. bringing in the major alliances will hinder all efforts for FW and 0.0 conflict.
its like being in the amarr militia and fighting to dave matari space ... cant have your cake and eat it too
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Uncle Mo
Raddick Explorations
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Posted - 2008.05.28 05:17:00 -
[33]
FW will be a flop, but thumbs-up anyways. Restricting a major game mechanic to a limited player base is just plain stupid. Alliances should be able to use FW to allow n00b pilots to train up their skills without the rigors of 0.0 fleet ops. It would be a perfect training ground. It's just as stupid as getting concorded for accidently engaging a weapon on someone in your fleet that doesn't happen to be in your corp. I hate empire.
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Official US ambassador to the UK.
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LordSwift
New Eden Regimental Navy
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Posted - 2008.05.29 10:23:00 -
[34]
No i dont agree. Alliances should not be allowed to join. This war will be over 0.1 - 1.0 systems. Alliances will have plenty of time to fight over regions in 0.0 that are left because people join the wars. 
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RuleoftheBone
Ataraxia.
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Posted - 2008.05.29 10:59:00 -
[35]
Thumbs down...disagree...whatever.
Alliances should not be allowed to blob out FW. Hence...let them participate via alt (which they will do anyway) .
"Lead Me..Follow Me..Or get the **** out of my way"
General George Patton USA
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Shandri Kantrell
Tooth and Claw
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Posted - 2008.05.29 12:36:00 -
[36]
From what I understand the only thing keeping Alliances out is they can't join one of the faction teams. As there is alot of lowsec involved do you really think not being in one of the faction teams will stop an Alliance such as Goons, RA, BoB or any other big alliance from dropping 20 carriers in just to watch the people on both sides run like roaches? Or just having them camp the entrances to the systems.
I think your far better off letting them participate rather then keeping them out so they break it out of spite.
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Talkuth Rel
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2008.06.06 16:05:00 -
[37]
Issue supported.
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nVChicky
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Posted - 2008.07.03 17:27:00 -
[38]
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Doc Extropy
Kinda'Shujaa
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Posted - 2008.07.03 17:59:00 -
[39]
Yes, I'm all for it.
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Skill queue now! Nerf skillpoint loss and half done skills! WE ARE PAYING CUSTOMERS AND DESERVE MAXIMUM COMFORT! |
Saori Rei
Gallente
Garoun Investment Bank
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Posted - 2008.07.04 02:33:00 -
[40]
No way. Leave 0.0 to the alliances and 0.1 + space to the FW groups.
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Jade Constantine
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Posted - 2008.07.04 15:44:00 -
[41]
This issue is something to be combined with Rodj's thread on the same subject and will be brought up on sunday.
CSM Manifesto 2008 | Destroy Outposts! |
Deldrac
Bat Country
Aegis Militia
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Posted - 2008.07.04 23:51:00 -
[42]
Edited by: Deldrac on 04/07/2008 23:51:02
Yes, yes, supported, obv.
If alliances aren't active in FW, it can't act as a bridge to 0.0. I really have difficulty understanding why the devs don't see that.
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Kaildoth
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2008.07.05 16:34:00 -
[43]
Edited by: Kaildoth on 05/07/2008 16:34:57
Totally disagree, the whole point is for new people to learn about pvp in eve and then when they have some experience they can go join alliances in 0.0. Letting alliances in FW will totally ruin it and it will end up just like 0.0 with caps and all that c**p. Some people (including me) joined FW to go away from the whole alliance thing and all that crap you always see in CAOD that going on there.
Alliances already have their playgrounds why you need to play in FW also? Go conquer some 0.0 space, why you want to conquer low sec space???....
CCP keep alliances out of FW dont ruin something good you made.
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Amoun Ra
Caldari
Caldari Assault Fleet
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Posted - 2008.07.08 10:58:00 -
[44]
Sorry but i have to disagree, i believe alliance shouldn't be allowed to join FW and here are my reasons:
1- Alliances will dominate FW if they were allowed they have more isk and more experience than any of the FW participants. Some of you will say that this way CCP is alienating a large number of eve players i say CCP would alienate even more players by allowing alliances to join just look at how many players are in the caldari militia they are more than any existing alliance do you want to lose them ?
2-For those of you who fear alliances would ruin FW i don't believe this will happen so far most alliances have acted responsibly and avoided getting involved in factional warfare to the extent of ruining it (although showing support for the militias by providing ships and modules and PvP experience is something that is very welcomed). Besides i doubt ccp would let alliances ruin their product.
3-Don't most alliance members have alts already in militias so whats the problem 
4-As for RP alliances i can only say i understand your suffering and i sympathize with you but the only thing i can say is this is eve adapt or die. 
5-I haven't been in an 0.0 alliances but i have tried once taking down a POS and i have to agree if that is how 0.0 warfare is it must be really boring but that is no reason for alliances to join FW eve is a big game and its all about choices and the way i see it alliance have to make a choice you either stay in 0.0 space because that is what you like and demand CCP fix it as it is your right, or leave 0.0 break the alliance and join FW.
Anyway that is just my personal opinion on the subject and why i choose not to support this notion. |
Windjammer
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.07.08 16:19:00 -
[45]
No. Alliances should be kept out of factional warfare.
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Jade Constantine
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Posted - 2008.07.08 16:32:00 -
[46]
Well CSM voted 6-3 for the alliance corps in faction warfare militias fix to be implemented with as much urgency as we can manage.
I personally feel its very important and its fortunate for the RP community we got 3 RP friendly CSM's in the mix :)
Star Fraction | Dare to Dream!
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Windjammer
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.07.08 18:30:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Jade Constantine
Well CSM voted 6-3 for the alliance corps in faction warfare militias fix to be implemented with as much urgency as we can manage.
I personally feel its very important and its fortunate for the RP community we got 3 RP friendly CSM's in the mix :)
Does that mean the request to allow alliances into FW is to presented to CCP or that it already has been? Remember, we still don't have the CSM meeting minutes from CSM meetings 4 and 5.
If it's already been presented to CCP, what was their response?
Windjammer
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QuiChang Kane
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Posted - 2008.07.08 18:41:00 -
[48]
I wholeheartedly agree with CCP's already existing policy on the issue. I mean honestly alliances are there own faction in themselves. Are you spending your time supporting your alliance's goals and defending it's space or out fighting faction warfare and leaving the homefront undefended ... I really dont see these 2 goals coexisting. If even 50% of an alliance military force is off playing faction warfare when an invasion begins, how will that leave the state of the alliance. I could see this used to overthrow some powerblocs with the right intel. Question shjouldn't be CAN alliance members join FW, many have moved whole corps out of major alliances already to pursue FW, but rather should our alliance join FW would you open your alliance to invasion. All in all, I think the Dev's took care of the issue for us honestly.
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Jade Constantine
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Posted - 2008.07.08 18:51:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Windjammer
Originally by: Jade Constantine
Well CSM voted 6-3 for the alliance corps in faction warfare militias fix to be implemented with as much urgency as we can manage.
I personally feel its very important and its fortunate for the RP community we got 3 RP friendly CSM's in the mix :)
Does that mean the request to allow alliances into FW is to presented to CCP or that it already has been? Remember, we still don't have the CSM meeting minutes from CSM meetings 4 and 5.
If it's already been presented to CCP, what was their response?
Windjammer
In Iceland we asked what the problem was with Alliances and FW and got told the technical details - ie that it was entirely possible for Alliance corps to remain in their alliances and still join Militias. CCP told us they were still deciding whether or not it was good idea to allow this function.
Hence now we'll be re-submitting the Issue and saying "yes we think its a good idea please do it".
Star Fraction | Dare to Dream!
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Windjammer
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.07.08 23:30:00 -
[50]
Edited by: Windjammer on 08/07/2008 23:35:13
Originally by: Jade Constantine
In Iceland we asked what the problem was with Alliances and FW and got told the technical details - ie that it was entirely possible for Alliance corps to remain in their alliances and still join Militias. CCP told us they were still deciding whether or not it was good idea to allow this function.
Hence now we'll be re-submitting the Issue and saying "yes we think its a good idea please do it".
Sooo........you guys discussed issues with CCP in Iceland that were not on the agenda prior to going to Iceland?
Windjammer
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Amaldor Themodius
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Posted - 2008.07.09 06:59:00 -
[51]
So many other more pressing issues for CSM to address I hope this one is well down the list of priorities. Alliances will simply destroy FW in my opinion by dominating the space and making the fights even more blob centric than they are at present. With the additional numbers alliances will bring to fights comes lag and diminished pvp experience.
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Dihania
Gallente
Mucho Dolor
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Posted - 2008.07.09 14:52:00 -
[52]
No.
The pvp experience and organisation of alliance pilots is far grater than those of the regular empire dwellers which are participating in FW.
A pvp corporation will get tired of shooting noobs for ****zle in about 3 weeks tops and will focus on the other pvp corporations in the other militia.
In these 3 weeks many noobs will avoid combat and many more will die without a chance and all be disapointed. Why? Because there is little place for them in the sand box.
After the pleasure of shooting poorly fighting back targets is gone, alliance pvp corporations will be reluctant to take on noobs aboard, becasue they lack pvp skills and thus do not help fighting the otther alliance pvp corps. Plus they could be spies.
Most people are selfish and most act like it without thought. I believe it is best to let alliances where they are.
Besides, noobs killing noobs is fun, unlike vets bbquing noobs. They get teh taste of pvp and as FW has no set candy once you "win" they will look into pvping somewhere else, somewhere with more rewards: mercenary corps, pirate corps, 0.0 corps.
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EVE: "The Hand-holding Age".
I need isk!Accepting donations.
Renting sig space.Taking various jobs. |
Becq Starforged
Minmatar Ship Construction Services
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Posted - 2008.08.21 01:05:00 -
[53]
This issue seems to be growing cold, so I'd like to kick it again.
To summarize events up to now, back in the first CSM meeting this issue was raised, and CCPs response was that it was impossible (or at least difficult) to allow alliances as a whole to participate. They also said that it would be very easy to allow individual corps to join militias while still remaining in an alliance.
I'm extremely disappointed that this has not been followed up on. It really is silly that dedicated RP alliances, especially, are barred from participating unless they disband the alliance, and this simple change would alleviate the issue. If necessary, the standings requirement could be raised to protect FW from large-scale interference, or there could be a higher requirement for corps that are in alliances.
Please put more emphasis on this. I understand that there are many 'more critical' things to address, but this is an easy change (according to CCP) that would benefit a great number of people for whom the events of FW are important.
Thank you.
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DEATHsyphon
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2008.08.21 01:59:00 -
[54]
Edited by: DEATHsyphon on 21/08/2008 01:59:00
Supported. My reason though is that by allowing alliances in to faction warfare might mean longstanding NAP's will be broken resulting in more wars and changes in 0.0 |
ITTigerClawIK
Shi no Koneko
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Posted - 2008.08.21 21:13:00 -
[55]
many RP alliances have been left out of something they have wanted for a long time, they shoudlnt have to divide or break up communitys just for something like this let them join
Sig space reclaimed in the name of me -courtesy of Tiggy ([email protected]) |
Becq Starforged
Minmatar Ship Construction Services
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2008.08.22 00:23:00 -
[56]
Just to clarify, I'm supporting the option mentioned by CCP to allow individual corps to apply to militias while remaining members of an alliance. They would still be required to meet the standings requirements that independent corps must meet to enlist. In order for an entire alliance to join, each member corp would have to meet that requirement.
According to CCP, a change of this sort would be fairly easy to implement. Make it so! We come for our people ... but are currently being kicked out by the bouncers.
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Becq Starforged
Ushra'Khan
The Flame of Freedom Burns On! |
cloud55111
Gallente
Azure Lagoon Inc
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Posted - 2008.08.28 01:20:00 -
[57]
AGREED...sorry
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Gabriel Darkefyre
Crystal Ship
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Posted - 2008.08.28 11:27:00 -
[58]
Edited by: Gabriel Darkefyre on 28/08/2008 11:34:59
Supported for many reasons.
1) FW is supposed to be a Stepping Stone towards 0.0 Operations for people fresh to PvP. Keeping the Alliances out doesn't make sense given that this is the goal. What you want is joint fleets with Alliance Members and Non-Alliance Members so that the Alliances can see first hand whether a Pilot or Corporation is skilled enough to join them (Player Skill Wise NOT Skill Points Wise)
2) The Stated RP reason for the Empires keeping the Alliances out of FW doesn't make sense either, do you really think that, for Example, the Amaar Empire would say No to a large group of Veteran Pilots (CVA) who turn up and say "We want to fight to help protect your interests" simply because they happen to be in a 0.0 Alliance? From a purely RP perspective it would be like them turning round and saying that the Ammatar Mandate can't fight alongside them.
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