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Taradis
The Imperial Assassins
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Posted - 2008.06.03 09:16:00 -
[31]
Quite frankly I like how it works thats one of the things that sets this MMO apart from the others. With games like WoW you have to constantly play for hrs on end to get anywhere in the game at least with this you set it and forget it plus if you took away the learning skills it would mess up the balance and it would be a huge deal to rebalance. So leave the damn learning skills alone thats such a noob thing to say imo... I for one will not support this...
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REALITY X
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Posted - 2008.06.04 09:48:00 -
[32]
I agree with the excellent points made by RoCkEt X and Windjammer.
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Nidda Coldbrew
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Posted - 2008.06.04 19:22:00 -
[33]
Not another of these anti-learning skill threads  Look, it's simple.....
YOU DON'T HAVE TO DO THEM.
If you don't like them, go skill something else. There's nothing making you do them. Whether you do or not I don't care, just stop with the chorus of whining noobs starting a thread a day on this topic. |
Von Chaos
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Posted - 2008.06.05 08:00:00 -
[34]
learning skills are a pain, and yes we all know it. but if ccp defaulted and gave every1 the same skills it would just turn into a numb slugfest. my character is a direct result of my choices of specialization and it gives depth to that character. Though a speed bump in training would be nice...
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EzSnake
Altruism.
Malice.
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Posted - 2008.06.07 21:42:00 -
[35]
Newbs need to stop cryin and tryin to get special treatment!!!!
We had to do it, and like stated above..we had to train to lvl5 on basics!!
Your already saving well over a month training and that isn't good enough for ya!!
Next you'll cry that you should get BS lvl4 and a free tier2 BS w/ a new toon
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Walter Skinner
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Posted - 2008.06.08 08:15:00 -
[36]
I'm in total support. I don't want to spend time on training skills so nobody else should have the option to train them. Hell no.
(apologies for the sarcasm)
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GIGAR
Astrum Contract Services Group
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Posted - 2008.06.08 23:15:00 -
[37]
Removing learning is a neat idea.
When it comes to reimbursing skillpoints, I think it could be done by setting all attributes to 10,000 (aka insta-wtfpwn-alot-of-sp-in-a-ruffy) until the amount of SP you had used on learning skills would be covered in whatever training you where training. (Carrier 5, lol)
Or you could sum up all the SP and just leave it to the player to feed it to the skills.
The disadvantage of the first is that it needs some anti-superlonglvl5skill protection. The pro is that the skilltraining is alredy a part of eve.
For the summing up SP... Well, I can't see a serious disadvantage besides vets not noticing that they can get their SP reimbursed and will send in a pention. (aka human failage)
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BalZ
Nova-Tek
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Posted - 2008.06.09 14:27:00 -
[38]
Linkage.. anyone? 
then ofcourse remove all the other learning skills
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Lumen Atra
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.06.09 16:39:00 -
[39]
I am curious how anybody spends "months" on these, unless you get them all to V, of course. I had them all to IV shortly after my 21 day trial ended. And they were not the first things I trained.
They make complete sense in the realm of RP, which is an aspect of the game whether you like it or not. I am a newbie, and I think they should stay and are perfectly fine, and I am sure a good majority of other newbies feel the same.
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Soryr Cole
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Posted - 2008.06.12 19:38:00 -
[40]
I have to agree with Lumen, to get the basics to lvl 5 and the advanceds to lvl 4 didn't take me more than a month. It isn't a huge thing these days.
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Faekurias
Black Legion Command
Red Dawn Alliance
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Posted - 2008.06.12 19:58:00 -
[41]
No.
Removing them would delete an entire layer of experience within eve.
Supreme Legion Commander of the Black Legion Fleet
We're recruiting.
Hitmeup ingame. |
Theo Samaritan
Eve-Academy
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Posted - 2008.06.12 20:13:00 -
[42]
To be honest, the argument to train all learning skills to 4/3 from the start is ******** at best.
I started by training the learning skills that directly effected my training time for my next ship/item - as given to me via evemon. Learning skills are only a burden if people arn't smart about informing the newbs about them. |
Darkerz
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Posted - 2008.07.12 11:36:00 -
[43]
removing them and giving players effects of all learned would cause all the old players who trained em to complain..
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Deldrac
Bat Country
Aegis Militia
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Posted - 2008.07.12 14:40:00 -
[44]
 Originally by: Theo Samaritan
Learning skills are only a burden if people arn't smart about informing the newbs about them.
Problem is that they burden if handled wrong, but add nothing worthwhile to the game if handled well.
I'd happily give up the time I spent on learning skills to see them all set to 5 on existing and new characters. The community benefits from making the game fun for new players. It does not benefit from new players having to suck it up just because we did.
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TheMailman
GreenSwarm
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2008.07.12 19:52:00 -
[45]
Cry me couple of rifter sized tears and train what you want to train, its RPG... |
Felix Dzerzhinsky
Caldari
Wreckless Abandon
Un-Natural Selection
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Posted - 2008.07.22 00:02:00 -
[46]
Well, we got the benifits of learning skills already as older players. So the ones who will suffer is the newer players. If they are simply given learning skills or those attributes are automatically added in - then the mid-range players suffer.
So its not as simple as removing them.
Also, while it does help to train learning skills - it has been said time and time again that 'basic skills' should be trained first and then after you are in your thorax or caracal or whatever, then you can train learning skills while you practice your races and learn the game. . .it all seems perfectly fine to me.
Do I hate learning skills? yes. Should they have been introduced, no. Shoulld they be removed? No.
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GO BLUE!! |
Icarus Starkiller
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Posted - 2008.07.22 16:19:00 -
[47]
Yes, well... if they remove the learning skills and just give everybody +10 to all stands and reduce training time by 20% then I want those months I spent training them up reimbursed by the handing over the number of SP I would normally accumulate in that time with my current stats (1.7m SP/MO on my strongest attrib pair).
I started when you were doing *good* to start out with 90k SP and frig/gunnery 4. Now newbs can start with almost 1m SP and get into a T2 frig w/ T2 guns almost right out of char gen. That's 2 months of early training before the learning skills alone, or 1 month once you've gotten the basic learning skills done.
So, new players are *already* boosted into the game by 3-6 months over where I began, and now you want to boost them another 3 months by eliminating the Learning timesink?
Cover the old schoolers who started before all of these newb buffs and I'll be fine with it.
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Life is pain...anyone who says differently is selling something. |
LetsDoThis
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Posted - 2008.07.25 00:59:00 -
[48]
Edited by: LetsDoThis on 25/07/2008 00:59:37
Stats shouldn't be in the game at all and no this is not a troll.
Removed learning skills and implant stats and starting stats and, hell, the stat window.
Make every skill train as if you had 30 of each stat and learning 5, right out of the gate.
I am not kidding.
This would eliminate the learning skill grind.
This would make more people pvp because a lot of people buy implants for nothing but the boost to learning skills, and then that makes their pod more expensive and less likely to risk pvp.
This would eliminate the pidgeon-holing of sorts. Say you have excellent stats for training manufacturing and science, but now you want to try out flying combat ships and guns and all things pew pew. Your stats may be totally gimp for training those things. This would eliminate that pidgeon-holing.
Stats in eve = pure lose lose situation. Nothing good comes from it, lots of bad does though.
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Eternal Error
Exitus Acta Probant
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Posted - 2008.07.25 01:42:00 -
[49]
No. They are optional, and variation between different character's stats is a good thing. Also, it would be one hell of a job for CCP to compensate all the players for the sp.
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Dubh Sidhe
Sidhe Industries
Aegis Consortium
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Posted - 2008.07.30 18:45:00 -
[50]
Personally, I don't really care if they take the learning skills out or leave them in. Though taking them out would cause some major headaches and what not. What I would like to see though, is the time it takes to train from 4 to 5 reduced. 30+ days to train a skill is just plain silly. Knock 25-50% off that training time and, IMO, things would go much smoother. There would be a lot of gripes and whinging from older players, but whatever happens, SOMEONE is gunna complain.
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Sile Suirghiche
Minmatar
Gaidhlig Technology
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Posted - 2008.07.31 02:35:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Dubh Sidhe
What I would like to see though, is the time it takes to train from 4 to 5 reduced. 30+ days to train a skill is just plain silly. Knock 25-50% off that training time and, IMO, things would go much smoother.
With a name like that I'd love to agree with you... but I can't. I don't mind the 30 day skills, I don't even mind the 50+ day skills. It's just such a damn good feeling when you get the "Skill training completed" on one of those monsters! Personally I'd rather we bring back the old days when you needed level V in a skill to take the advanced skills which followed or to fly the advanced ships dependent upon it.
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Baaldor
Caldari
Igneus Auctorita
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.07.31 06:59:00 -
[52]
I don't remember exactly. But when the advanced learning skills were introduced, didn't you have to close out your basic skill before you could even start the advanced ones? And somewhere down the road CCP relaxed the requirements a bit to make it easier?
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Fahtim Meidires
Caldari
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.07.31 07:47:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Baaldor
I don't remember exactly. But when the advanced learning skills were introduced, didn't you have to close out your basic skill before you could even start the advanced ones? And somewhere down the road CCP relaxed the requirements a bit to make it easier?
correct
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Tchell Dahhn
Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2008.08.05 15:03:00 -
[54]
I like Joe, but I like my Learning Skills mo'. Sorry, Joe, but that's a "no go" from this Schmo.
We're Recruiting! |
J Kunjeh
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.08.06 20:34:00 -
[55]
Not supported. I think those who choose to train the learning skills should be rewarded and those who could care less shouldn't have to train them. There is no need to take them out, except to buff those who chose not to train them and now want the advantages provided.
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J Kunjeh
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.08.06 20:37:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Cpt Striker
"delayed satisfaction is part of eve, i hope it remains this way for years to come."
This is pure idiocy in the context of skill training. What possible benefit is there to delayed satisfaction? As someone who has trained all the learning skills, before the prequisites for the advanced ones were lowered, i believe them to have added nothing of value to the game experience. To force others, and especially newer players, to endure such a lengthy timesink, in order to be able to compete is just selfish and short sighted.
People should be encouraged to enjoy the fun and interesting parts of the game right from the outset. A system which all but requires a certain level of learning skills in order to even begin the process of competeing with the established player base is, in my opinion, flawed. Remove the skills.
Totally agreed, which is why all players should be given a permanent link into an ISK bank with unlimited funds...you know, so they can buy the best ships right off the bat and enjoy the fun from day one!
/sarcasm
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Strill
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Posted - 2008.08.09 23:17:00 -
[57]
Originally by: RoCkEt X
the whole point in learning skills is that YOU can choose to what level they are worth training, its the same with every other skill in eve. like 'is the lvl 5 for warhead upgrades worth 2% extra damage for 20 days of training?' if the answer is no - then you dont train it, if its yes - then you do.
That analogy is complete fail. Think for a second. How do you determine if a learning skill is worth training? Well, if you plan to play EVE indefinitely, then ALL of them are worth training to level 5 period. If you only plan to play EVE for a month or so and then quit, then they're not worth it at all. So what learning skills end up doing is making people decide how long they want to play the game from the very beginning! Before they've even gotten a chance to see if they like it! (and they certainly won't be liking it much after spending so long training learning skills) How does forcing people into a decision like that helpful? It just adds stress which is what people play games to AVOID.
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Strill
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Posted - 2008.08.09 23:30:00 -
[58]
Edited by: Strill on 09/08/2008 23:32:39
Originally by: Von Chaos
learning skills are a pain, and yes we all know it. but if ccp defaulted and gave every1 the same skills it would just turn into a numb slugfest. my character is a direct result of my choices of specialization and it gives depth to that character. Though a speed bump in training would be nice...
Fail. Just...fail.
You're not specializing by choosing which learning skills to get. You're gimping yourself by not getting them all. Specializing implies that you're choosing between things that are mutually exclusive. That is not the case with learning skills. Consider one person who goes for learning skills and another who goes for gunnery skills. The one that gets their learning skills up will be able to go for gunnery skills after finishing, and will eventually end up with MORE gunnery skills than the person who neglected learning. On top of that, the person who neglected learning will never be able to catch up. How is that specialization? The person who went for learning ended up getting more of everything! The fact is that if you plan to play for long enough, ALL the learning skills are worth getting. There are NO CONs to getting learning skills from the perspective of someone who wants to get maximum skill points. The cons for learning skills to the average player, however, are that it's boring to train them, and you have to play the game for a really long time before they pay off. So you make a game where the best decision is to do nothing for the first few months...What kind of game is that?! It's flat-out stupid to make a GAME, and then encourage players to NOT PLAY the game!
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Strill
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Posted - 2008.08.09 23:46:00 -
[59]
Edited by: Strill on 09/08/2008 23:47:08
Originally by: Nidda Coldbrew
Not another of these anti-learning skill threads Look, it's simple.....
YOU DON'T HAVE TO DO THEM.
If you don't like them, go skill something else. There's nothing making you do them. Whether you do or not I don't care, just stop with the chorus of whining noobs starting a thread a day on this topic.
See that's the fallacy.
YOU DO HAVE TO DO THEM.
You have to choose between having fun, and having a good character. If I want to play eve for a while and have a good character, I should train all my learning skills to level 5 from the start. If I want to have fun, I should train up my ship and gunnery skills so I can go blow up some pirates. You're telling new players that if they want to have fun, they should quit eve fairly soon because they'll end up being left in the dust because they didn't train learning.
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Strill
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Posted - 2008.08.09 23:59:00 -
[60]
Edited by: Strill on 10/08/2008 00:03:03
Originally by: Windjammer
The OP's post is a failure from "a." to "e." of his points. Learning skills are like any other skill training in EVE. By training them you gain an advantage. Train gunnery, you have and advantage. Train a trade skill, you have an advantage. Train a learning skill, you have an advantage. His argument against learning skills is an argument against any kind of skill training. i.e. "Why should we have to wait? Why should we be at a disadvantage if we don't train a particular skill?" Such an argument is absurd and is the product of someone who wants everything handed to them on a platter without expending any effort.
But they're not like any other skill training in EVE. That's why there's so much controversy. Train gunnery, and you have an advantage. Train learning, and you have a learning AND gunnery advantage! The only time learning isn't the best decision is when you plan to quit soon and want to get one particular skill or set of skills by a certain date. That means that in order to decide whether learning skills are a good idea, you have to decide when you're going to quit EVE! Why is forcing people to set their quitting date a good thing? What does it add to the game? For someone who wants to decide whether they like EVE, it just discourages them and makes them likely to give up. They can train some combat skills and have fun, but they end up being penalized for it since they didn't spend that time training learning skills. Why are you penalizing new players for trying the game out?
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