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Saska D'light
Alice in Wonderland Derek Knows Us
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Posted - 2008.05.25 15:10:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Saska D''light on 25/05/2008 15:10:51 Maelstroms at 125 million isk is just wrong. Just because you mine the minerals yourself does not make it ok for you to break the market. Abaddon sale prices are also broken.
Alice in Wonderland will be having a quiet word with anyone named and shamed, let's see how fast you can replace a hulk selling BS at a million above build price
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Oakrayven
Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2008.05.25 15:20:00 -
[2]
Originally by: Saska D'light Edited by: Saska D''light on 25/05/2008 15:10:51
let's see how fast you can replace a hulk selling BS at a million above build price
let me let you in on a littel secret
THIS IS A TOTAL PVP GAME! YOUR SUPOSED TO DO WHATEVER IT TAKES TO TAKE DOWN THE OTHER PLAYER(S), be it in combat or in the marketplace.
And another lightbulb goes on, if a bit dimly.. .. .. .. I hope. . . .
Trust Aura. Aura is Your Friend.
If your too paranoid to play EVE. . .
Then your not Paranoid enough to play EVE.
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Alex Salas
BROTHERHOOD OF SPARTA Dominatus Phasmatis
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Posted - 2008.05.25 15:29:00 -
[3]
I am sorry mate, traders gouge pvpers in the market and pvpers gouge traders through ganks/ransom. There are more ways to take down a person than a autocannons/blasters/beams/heavies.
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Saska D'light
Alice in Wonderland Derek Knows Us
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Posted - 2008.05.25 15:41:00 -
[4]
How can anyone possibly defend stupidity of the magnitude unless they are doing it themselves. The reason this has happened is very simple. Moron A has seen the prices at 140 million and wants a quick sale so puts price at 125 million, now moron B sees this and thinks "!*gleee*" and instead of putting in at 140 mill and waiting 2 days for the silly cheap ships to sell puts his in at the same price. Moron C repeats this.
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Karanth
Eve's Brothers of Destiny FOUNDATI0N
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Posted - 2008.05.25 15:42:00 -
[5]
That was prolly the worst post ever. Are you deriding people for making low profits? Are you raging because people are undercutting you? Are you upset at BS prices for some other reason?
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Karanth
Eve's Brothers of Destiny FOUNDATI0N
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Posted - 2008.05.25 15:43:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Saska D'light How can anyone possibly defend stupidity of the magnitude unless they are doing it themselves. The reason this has happened is very simple. Moron A has seen the prices at 140 million and wants a quick sale so puts price at 125 million, now moron B sees this and thinks "!*gleee*" and instead of putting in at 140 mill and waiting 2 days for the silly cheap ships to sell puts his in at the same price. Moron C repeats this.
And Trader D sees this, goes "ROFL tools" and buys it all up, relists it at 140mil, and makes a 15mil profit on every ship.
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Alex Salas
BROTHERHOOD OF SPARTA Dominatus Phasmatis
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Posted - 2008.05.25 15:48:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Alex Salas on 25/05/2008 15:52:59 Yes I am biased, I pvp on occasion and I play in the markets, so I have sympathy for both sides.
You seemed to be informed of the value of the ship, you have three options; build the ship yourself, go to another region and buy it, or take the screw job and go on your way.
I do not blame the seller one bit s/he see's limited supply so s/he gouges or thank the gankers that have made mining expensive and the new price is merely part of the new cost basis of the ship.
Edit: Edited for clarity.
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Saska D'light
Alice in Wonderland Derek Knows Us
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Posted - 2008.05.25 15:48:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Karanth That was prolly the worst post ever. Are you deriding people for making low profits? Are you raging because people are undercutting you? Are you upset at BS prices for some other reason?
I'm not raging, I'm just disappointed in you darling. When running a level 1 mission becomes more profitable than making and selling a BS something is wrong.
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LaVista Vista
Conservative Shenanigans Party
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Posted - 2008.05.25 15:52:00 -
[9]
Well. I they sell the ships for less than mineral price, just buy them and resell for profits.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.05.25 16:48:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Karanth And Trader D sees this, goes "ROFL tools" and buys it all up, relists it at 140mil, and makes a 15mil profit on every ship.
BINGO !
1|2|3|4|5 |
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Tasko Pal
Heron Corporation
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Posted - 2008.05.25 17:06:00 -
[11]
Next thing you know, they'll be changing the formula for Quafe Ultra!
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sgt carlini
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.05.25 18:31:00 -
[12]
So you think it isn't fair that a ship can change in price just becayse someone wants theirs to sell quickly so they can get the money, not wait 3 days.
OMG moxcium is at about 100 isk, this is unnacceptable, it should be AT LEAST blah blah. OMG iso is at about 50 isk, this is unnacceptable, it should be AT LEAST blah blah. OMG ibises is at about 0 isk, this is unnacceptable, it should be AT LEAST blah blah. When the war comes, caldari are going to kick some galleante and minmatar rear! |
Saska D'light
Alice in Wonderland Derek Knows Us
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Posted - 2008.05.25 19:20:00 -
[13]
If you are going to flame me then you could at least use a spell checker. :|
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Executor Tarkin
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Posted - 2008.05.25 20:06:00 -
[14]
It's called an economy. Just because CCP lists the base price as 145,000,000 doesn't mean that the Maelstrom should actually be worth that much.
If you live in a civilization, I guarantee you that you purchase goods with the same type of competitive pricing. Really, why should it be such a big deal?
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Polly Prissypantz
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Posted - 2008.05.25 21:17:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Executor Tarkin It's called an economy. Just because CCP lists the base price as 145,000,000 doesn't mean that the Maelstrom should actually be worth that much.
If you live in a civilization, I guarantee you that you purchase goods with the same type of competitive pricing. Really, why should it be such a big deal?
It's not about what the CCP listed price is. It's about what the market value of the minerals used to build the ship are worth... And using Jita prices I can say with relative certainty (I don't even buy/sell Maelstroms) that 125m is below mineral value. The thing is, as soon as it drops below the magic mineral value on the market, dirty peeps like me with 100% refine and no tax just buy them and melt them down. So... By all means KEEP UNDERCUTTING.
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Alex Redwidth
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Posted - 2008.05.25 21:44:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Polly Prissypantz It's about what the market value of the minerals used to build the ship are worth... And using Jita prices I can say with relative certainty (I don't even buy/sell Maelstroms) that 125m is below mineral value.
Not even close. I can make them for 126Mil with PE4 on an unresearched BPO, someone making a 'living' from making them will be able to do it for much less.
That AiW think their only recourse when they are undercut (how DARE CCP let this happen!) is to go to war against their competitor's miners speaks volumes of their market savy... or lack thereof.
Pure fail.
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Saska D'light
Alice in Wonderland Derek Knows Us
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Posted - 2008.05.25 21:59:00 -
[17]
Of course it's not our only recourse,I could buy every one and mark them up. I could do a deal for cheap minerals. However, how is this going to teach the stupid person who sold a mael in rens for 123.5 million a (economic)lesson? He wont remember the trader, he will remember that "greafing" sonofa who destroyed his hulk. (Also who said anything about war? fark spending 50 million.)
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Nicholai Stropkov
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Posted - 2008.05.25 22:53:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Alex Redwidth
Originally by: Polly Prissypantz It's about what the market value of the minerals used to build the ship are worth... And using Jita prices I can say with relative certainty (I don't even buy/sell Maelstroms) that 125m is below mineral value.
Not even close. I can make them for 126Mil with PE4 on an unresearched BPO, someone making a 'living' from making them will be able to do it for much less.
Pure fail.
with bpo ME10, PE V i can make them for 108M, this thread sux
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Boz Well
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Posted - 2008.05.25 23:02:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Nicholai Stropkov
Originally by: Alex Redwidth
Originally by: Polly Prissypantz It's about what the market value of the minerals used to build the ship are worth... And using Jita prices I can say with relative certainty (I don't even buy/sell Maelstroms) that 125m is below mineral value.
Not even close. I can make them for 126Mil with PE4 on an unresearched BPO, someone making a 'living' from making them will be able to do it for much less.
Pure fail.
with bpo ME10, PE V i can make them for 108M, this thread sux
Not at all. This thread entertains.
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Midnight Hauler
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Posted - 2008.05.25 23:56:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Polly Prissypantz
Originally by: Executor Tarkin It's called an economy. Just because CCP lists the base price as 145,000,000 doesn't mean that the Maelstrom should actually be worth that much.
If you live in a civilization, I guarantee you that you purchase goods with the same type of competitive pricing. Really, why should it be such a big deal?
It's not about what the CCP listed price is. It's about what the market value of the minerals used to build the ship are worth... And using Jita prices I can say with relative certainty (I don't even buy/sell Maelstroms) that 125m is below mineral value. The thing is, as soon as it drops below the magic mineral value on the market, dirty peeps like me with 100% refine and no tax just buy them and melt them down. So... By all means KEEP UNDERCUTTING.
^^ this :)
please keep undercutting.
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Gimpb
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Posted - 2008.05.26 00:35:00 -
[21]
You're free to sell whatever you want, for whatever price you want, for any or no reason.
So yes, it is ok for someone to break the market if that's what they want to do. If prices get low enough then start recycling them or insuring and blowing them up for profit. If they're not that low then someone could be making a profit, or they've found BSs sell faster than minerals.
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Vaal Erit
Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2008.05.26 01:08:00 -
[22]
So, Saska, you've whined on two different forums and no one supports you. You whine that you will be killing carebears hulks but I don't think you will, because dum da dum, you are a carebear yourself.
OP is such a loser. You are a loser because you lost ingame, on eve-o forums and on SHC forums. Go away.
Originally by: CCP Casqade Please refrain from making assumptions on game mechanics and then presenting them as facts before testing them yourself.
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Oakrayven
Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2008.05.26 04:20:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Oakrayven on 26/05/2008 04:22:04
Originally by: Saska D'light Of course it's not our only recourse,I could buy every one and mark them up. I could do a deal for cheap minerals. However, how is this going to teach the stupid person who sold a mael in rens for 123.5 million a (economic)lesson? He wont remember the trader, he will remember that "greafing" sonofa who destroyed his hulk. (Also who said anything about war? fark spending 50 million.)
ok lets see just how many assumptions you are makeing
1) that he flies a hulk
2) that hes a mining indi and not a missioning indi like me 1b& 2b)that "he" actualy mines his minerals and does not get them on the market place, after all some people get their minerals for a fraction of the mineral value by buying loot/roids-minerals as it is with their system wide buy orders 3) that its not an alt thats making the sale that never leaves the hanger 4) that he is on at the same time you are. 5 that he dosent have enough of a tank on his ship hold out untill concord shows up to blow you to scrap for even trying. 6) that hes flying something that is expensive for him to replace. (theirs people I know who are pefectly fine flying low rent frigates) 7) that you podkilling him will make him give a crap. and if he PvPs, the odds of him giveing a crap about loosing yet another ship/clone are between nill and none.
if any one of thoes things that you are assuming is incorect then your odds of trashing whatever it is he is flying and thus hurting his fealings, well they aint so good are they?
Trust Aura. Aura is Your Friend.
If your too paranoid to play EVE. . .
Then your not Paranoid enough to play EVE.
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Drzt
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2008.05.26 04:33:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Saska D'light I'm not raging, I'm just disappointed in you darling. When running a level 1 mission becomes more profitable than making and selling a BS something is wrong.
Sigh. You don't get it do you? Why don't you go back to your level 1 missions and quit complaining. Adapt or die. Adapt or die. |
Kylar Renpurs
Dusk Blade
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Posted - 2008.05.26 04:51:00 -
[25]
Interestingly, I've never understood why people can't comprehend "Liquidation Logic" as I'll coin it.
As someone said similarly above, selling goods *above* cost does not sell them *right now*. When trying to get the ISK up to pay investors, I crashed several T2 Component prices to below cost.
What I find "unacceptable" is the belief by some people that this *forces* them to reduce their prices to below that seller.
Saska: Stop being a bloody lemming. If they're selling "Way below cost" then let them. Those goods will be swiped up pretty quickly by traders and the like for relisting or reprocessing into minerals for a slower sale.
There's pretty clear logic why people sell below cost: To Make Money *now*. Yes, you can make *better* money by maintaining semi-cartel pricing, but it doesn't give you the isk you need this very minute.
Improve Market Competition! |
Oakrayven
Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2008.05.26 05:56:00 -
[26]
Actualy theirs a lot of incidental reasons why someone might be underpriceing the assumed "optimal price"
1) they for whatever reason dont have enought buy-sell slots they may have some of their slots tied up in mineral buys for example
2) they miscalculated the sell price for whatever reason (ive done that, do a quick calc at *1.0025 instead of *1.25)
3) they want to do a fast sale
4) they saw a price and tried to under cut it, the other person realises for whatever the reason they typoed and fix the price
5) they have a diferent value of their investment in time-effort-BPO upgrades or whathaveyou
6) they got the minerals cheeper than the so called "basket price" via buy orders on modules-ores-minerals
7) wants to "controll" the market by driveing out competitors if they are selling for a smaller % over cost than their competitors
8) is just willing for whatever reason to take a smaller proffit than everyone else
9) is honestly more interested in keeping their PvP "main" supplied and just sells off the unnedded surpluss
Trust Aura. Aura is Your Friend.
If your too paranoid to play EVE. . .
Then your not Paranoid enough to play EVE.
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Spud Gunn
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Posted - 2008.05.26 08:06:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Nicholai Stropkov with bpo ME10, PE V i can make them for 108M, this thread sux
I assume the BPO, the cost to research it, and the time to skill up PE to 5 were all free, right?
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Ancorehraq sis
Minmatar Mafia
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Posted - 2008.05.26 08:53:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Spud Gunn
Originally by: Nicholai Stropkov with bpo ME10, PE V i can make them for 108M, this thread sux
I assume the BPO, the cost to research it, and the time to skill up PE to 5 were all free, right?
Yes. Amortization, remember? Or do you invest in a BPO, build 3 ships and then give up?
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Visse Krenal
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2008.05.26 09:03:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Spud Gunn
Originally by: Nicholai Stropkov with bpo ME10, PE V i can make them for 108M, this thread sux
I assume the BPO, the cost to research it, and the time to skill up PE to 5 were all free, right?
While not necessarily "free" the BPO is an investment. Just because your wallet decreased doesn't mean you lost value.
The PE skill is hard to assign a fixed isk price per unit to, especially since one would have trained it purely to allow yourself to have larger profits via manufacturing in the first place. It pays for itself without raising the price of your goods.
These things don't require him to sell all his BSes at any given semi-cartel price. Unless you are forced to produce fixed number of units which balance out at a set-in-stone profit target when sold at the semi-cartel rate, you can price your units wherever you like above your mineral and production line costs.
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mikeh24
UNITED STAR SYNDICATE Ka-Tet
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Posted - 2008.05.26 12:22:00 -
[30]
just buy them and resell
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