| Pages: 1 2 3 :: [one page] |
|
|
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Saska D'light
Alice in Wonderland
Derek Knows Us
   |
Posted - 2008.05.25 15:10:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Saska D''light on 25/05/2008 15:10:51
Maelstroms at 125 million isk is just wrong. Just because you mine the minerals yourself does not make it ok for you to break the market. Abaddon sale prices are also broken.
Alice in Wonderland will be having a quiet word with anyone named and shamed, let's see how fast you can replace a hulk selling BS at a million above build price 
|
Oakrayven
Federal Navy Academy
|
Posted - 2008.05.25 15:20:00 -
[2]
 Originally by: Saska D'light
Edited by: Saska D''light on 25/05/2008 15:10:51
let's see how fast you can replace a hulk selling BS at a million above build price
let me let you in on a littel secret
THIS IS A TOTAL PVP GAME! YOUR SUPOSED TO DO WHATEVER IT TAKES TO TAKE DOWN THE OTHER PLAYER(S), be it in combat or in the marketplace.
And another lightbulb goes on, if a bit dimly.. .. .. .. I hope. . . .
Trust Aura. Aura is Your Friend.
If your too paranoid to play EVE. . .
Then your not Paranoid enough to play EVE.
|
Alex Salas
BROTHERHOOD OF SPARTA
Dominatus Phasmatis
|
Posted - 2008.05.25 15:29:00 -
[3]
I am sorry mate, traders gouge pvpers in the market and pvpers gouge traders through ganks/ransom. There are more ways to take down a person than a autocannons/blasters/beams/heavies.
|
Saska D'light
Alice in Wonderland
Derek Knows Us
|
Posted - 2008.05.25 15:41:00 -
[4]
How can anyone possibly defend stupidity of the magnitude unless they are doing it themselves. The reason this has happened is very simple. Moron A has seen the prices at 140 million and wants a quick sale so puts price at 125 million, now moron B sees this and thinks "!*gleee*" and instead of putting in at 140 mill and waiting 2 days for the silly cheap ships to sell puts his in at the same price. Moron C repeats this.
|
Karanth
Eve's Brothers of Destiny
FOUNDATI0N
|
Posted - 2008.05.25 15:42:00 -
[5]
That was prolly the worst post ever. Are you deriding people for making low profits? Are you raging because people are undercutting you? Are you upset at BS prices for some other reason?
|
Karanth
Eve's Brothers of Destiny
FOUNDATI0N
|
Posted - 2008.05.25 15:43:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Saska D'light
How can anyone possibly defend stupidity of the magnitude unless they are doing it themselves. The reason this has happened is very simple. Moron A has seen the prices at 140 million and wants a quick sale so puts price at 125 million, now moron B sees this and thinks "!*gleee*" and instead of putting in at 140 mill and waiting 2 days for the silly cheap ships to sell puts his in at the same price. Moron C repeats this.
And Trader D sees this, goes "ROFL tools" and buys it all up, relists it at 140mil, and makes a 15mil profit on every ship.
|
Alex Salas
BROTHERHOOD OF SPARTA
Dominatus Phasmatis
|
Posted - 2008.05.25 15:48:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Alex Salas on 25/05/2008 15:52:59
Yes I am biased, I pvp on occasion and I play in the markets, so I have sympathy for both sides.
You seemed to be informed of the value of the ship, you have three options; build the ship yourself, go to another region and buy it, or take the screw job and go on your way.
I do not blame the seller one bit s/he see's limited supply so s/he gouges or thank the gankers that have made mining expensive and the new price is merely part of the new cost basis of the ship.
Edit: Edited for clarity.
|
Saska D'light
Alice in Wonderland
Derek Knows Us
|
Posted - 2008.05.25 15:48:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Karanth
That was prolly the worst post ever. Are you deriding people for making low profits? Are you raging because people are undercutting you? Are you upset at BS prices for some other reason?
I'm not raging, I'm just disappointed in you darling. When running a level 1 mission becomes more profitable than making and selling a BS something is wrong.
|
LaVista Vista
Conservative Shenanigans Party
|
Posted - 2008.05.25 15:52:00 -
[9]
Well. I they sell the ships for less than mineral price, just buy them and resell for profits.
|
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
|
Posted - 2008.05.25 16:48:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Karanth
And Trader D sees this, goes "ROFL tools" and buys it all up, relists it at 140mil, and makes a 15mil profit on every ship.
BINGO !
1|2|3|4|5 |
|
|
Tasko Pal
Heron Corporation
|
Posted - 2008.05.25 17:06:00 -
[11]
Next thing you know, they'll be changing the formula for Quafe Ultra!
|
sgt carlini
Deep Core Mining Inc.
|
Posted - 2008.05.25 18:31:00 -
[12]
So you think it isn't fair that a ship can change in price just becayse someone wants theirs to sell quickly so they can get the money, not wait 3 days.
OMG moxcium is at about 100 isk, this is unnacceptable, it should be AT LEAST blah blah.
OMG iso is at about 50 isk, this is unnacceptable, it should be AT LEAST blah blah.
OMG ibises is at about 0 isk, this is unnacceptable, it should be AT LEAST blah blah.
When the war comes, caldari are going to kick some galleante and minmatar rear! |
Saska D'light
Alice in Wonderland
Derek Knows Us
|
Posted - 2008.05.25 19:20:00 -
[13]
If you are going to flame me then you could at least use a spell checker. :|
|
Executor Tarkin
|
Posted - 2008.05.25 20:06:00 -
[14]
It's called an economy. Just because CCP lists the base price as 145,000,000 doesn't mean that the Maelstrom should actually be worth that much.
If you live in a civilization, I guarantee you that you purchase goods with the same type of competitive pricing. Really, why should it be such a big deal?
|
Polly Prissypantz
|
Posted - 2008.05.25 21:17:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Executor Tarkin
It's called an economy. Just because CCP lists the base price as 145,000,000 doesn't mean that the Maelstrom should actually be worth that much.
If you live in a civilization, I guarantee you that you purchase goods with the same type of competitive pricing. Really, why should it be such a big deal?
It's not about what the CCP listed price is. It's about what the market value of the minerals used to build the ship are worth... And using Jita prices I can say with relative certainty (I don't even buy/sell Maelstroms) that 125m is below mineral value. The thing is, as soon as it drops below the magic mineral value on the market, dirty peeps like me with 100% refine and no tax just buy them and melt them down. So... By all means KEEP UNDERCUTTING.
|
Alex Redwidth
|
Posted - 2008.05.25 21:44:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Polly Prissypantz
It's about what the market value of the minerals used to build the ship are worth... And using Jita prices I can say with relative certainty (I don't even buy/sell Maelstroms) that 125m is below mineral value.
Not even close. I can make them for 126Mil with PE4 on an unresearched BPO, someone making a 'living' from making them will be able to do it for much less.
That AiW think their only recourse when they are undercut (how DARE CCP let this happen!) is to go to war against their competitor's miners speaks volumes of their market savy... or lack thereof.
Pure fail.
|
Saska D'light
Alice in Wonderland
Derek Knows Us
|
Posted - 2008.05.25 21:59:00 -
[17]
Of course it's not our only recourse,I could buy every one and mark them up. I could do a deal for cheap minerals. However, how is this going to teach the stupid person who sold a mael in rens for 123.5 million a (economic)lesson? He wont remember the trader, he will remember that "greafing" sonofa who destroyed his hulk. (Also who said anything about war? fark spending 50 million.)
|
Nicholai Stropkov
|
Posted - 2008.05.25 22:53:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Alex Redwidth
Originally by: Polly Prissypantz
It's about what the market value of the minerals used to build the ship are worth... And using Jita prices I can say with relative certainty (I don't even buy/sell Maelstroms) that 125m is below mineral value.
Not even close. I can make them for 126Mil with PE4 on an unresearched BPO, someone making a 'living' from making them will be able to do it for much less.
Pure fail.
with bpo ME10, PE V i can make them for 108M, this thread sux
|
Boz Well
|
Posted - 2008.05.25 23:02:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Nicholai Stropkov
Originally by: Alex Redwidth
Originally by: Polly Prissypantz
It's about what the market value of the minerals used to build the ship are worth... And using Jita prices I can say with relative certainty (I don't even buy/sell Maelstroms) that 125m is below mineral value.
Not even close. I can make them for 126Mil with PE4 on an unresearched BPO, someone making a 'living' from making them will be able to do it for much less.
Pure fail.
with bpo ME10, PE V i can make them for 108M, this thread sux
Not at all. This thread entertains. 
|
Midnight Hauler
|
Posted - 2008.05.25 23:56:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Polly Prissypantz
Originally by: Executor Tarkin
It's called an economy. Just because CCP lists the base price as 145,000,000 doesn't mean that the Maelstrom should actually be worth that much.
If you live in a civilization, I guarantee you that you purchase goods with the same type of competitive pricing. Really, why should it be such a big deal?
It's not about what the CCP listed price is. It's about what the market value of the minerals used to build the ship are worth... And using Jita prices I can say with relative certainty (I don't even buy/sell Maelstroms) that 125m is below mineral value. The thing is, as soon as it drops below the magic mineral value on the market, dirty peeps like me with 100% refine and no tax just buy them and melt them down. So... By all means KEEP UNDERCUTTING.
^^ this :)
please keep undercutting.
|
|
|
Gimpb
|
Posted - 2008.05.26 00:35:00 -
[21]
You're free to sell whatever you want, for whatever price you want, for any or no reason.
So yes, it is ok for someone to break the market if that's what they want to do. If prices get low enough then start recycling them or insuring and blowing them up for profit. If they're not that low then someone could be making a profit, or they've found BSs sell faster than minerals.
|
Vaal Erit
Science and Trade Institute
|
Posted - 2008.05.26 01:08:00 -
[22]
So, Saska, you've whined on two different forums and no one supports you. You whine that you will be killing carebears hulks but I don't think you will, because dum da dum, you are a carebear yourself.
OP is such a loser. You are a loser because you lost ingame, on eve-o forums and on SHC forums. Go away.
Originally by: CCP Casqade
Please refrain from making assumptions on game mechanics and then presenting them as facts before testing them yourself.
|
Oakrayven
Federal Navy Academy
|
Posted - 2008.05.26 04:20:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Oakrayven on 26/05/2008 04:22:04
Originally by: Saska D'light
Of course it's not our only recourse,I could buy every one and mark them up. I could do a deal for cheap minerals. However, how is this going to teach the stupid person who sold a mael in rens for 123.5 million a (economic)lesson? He wont remember the trader, he will remember that "greafing" sonofa who destroyed his hulk. (Also who said anything about war? fark spending 50 million.)
ok lets see just how many assumptions you are makeing
1) that he flies a hulk
2) that hes a mining indi and not a missioning indi like me
1b& 2b)that "he" actualy mines his minerals and does not get them on the market place, after all some people get their minerals for a fraction of the mineral value by buying loot/roids-minerals as it is with their system wide buy orders
3) that its not an alt thats making the sale that never leaves the hanger
4) that he is on at the same time you are.
5 that he dosent have enough of a tank on his ship hold out untill concord shows up to blow you to scrap for even trying.
6) that hes flying something that is expensive for him to replace. (theirs people I know who are pefectly fine flying low rent frigates)
7) that you podkilling him will make him give a crap. and if he PvPs, the odds of him giveing a crap about loosing yet another ship/clone are between nill and none.
if any one of thoes things that you are assuming is incorect then your odds of trashing whatever it is he is flying and thus hurting his fealings, well they aint so good are they?
Trust Aura. Aura is Your Friend.
If your too paranoid to play EVE. . .
Then your not Paranoid enough to play EVE.
|
Drzt
Sebiestor tribe
|
Posted - 2008.05.26 04:33:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Saska D'light
I'm not raging, I'm just disappointed in you darling. When running a level 1 mission becomes more profitable than making and selling a BS something is wrong.
Sigh. You don't get it do you? Why don't you go back to your level 1 missions and quit complaining. Adapt or die.
Adapt or die. |
Kylar Renpurs
Dusk Blade
|
Posted - 2008.05.26 04:51:00 -
[25]
Interestingly, I've never understood why people can't comprehend "Liquidation Logic" as I'll coin it.
As someone said similarly above, selling goods *above* cost does not sell them *right now*. When trying to get the ISK up to pay investors, I crashed several T2 Component prices to below cost.
What I find "unacceptable" is the belief by some people that this *forces* them to reduce their prices to below that seller.
Saska: Stop being a bloody lemming. If they're selling "Way below cost" then let them. Those goods will be swiped up pretty quickly by traders and the like for relisting or reprocessing into minerals for a slower sale.
There's pretty clear logic why people sell below cost: To Make Money *now*. Yes, you can make *better* money by maintaining semi-cartel pricing, but it doesn't give you the isk you need this very minute.
Improve Market Competition! |
Oakrayven
Federal Navy Academy
|
Posted - 2008.05.26 05:56:00 -
[26]
Actualy theirs a lot of incidental reasons why someone might be underpriceing the assumed "optimal price"
1) they for whatever reason dont have enought buy-sell slots they may have some of their slots tied up in mineral buys for example
2) they miscalculated the sell price for whatever reason (ive done that, do a quick calc at *1.0025 instead of *1.25)
3) they want to do a fast sale
4) they saw a price and tried to under cut it, the other person realises for whatever the reason they typoed and fix the price
5) they have a diferent value of their investment in time-effort-BPO upgrades or whathaveyou
6) they got the minerals cheeper than the so called "basket price" via buy orders on modules-ores-minerals
7) wants to "controll" the market by driveing out competitors if they are selling for a smaller % over cost than their competitors
8) is just willing for whatever reason to take a smaller proffit than everyone else
9) is honestly more interested in keeping their PvP "main" supplied and just sells off the unnedded surpluss
Trust Aura. Aura is Your Friend.
If your too paranoid to play EVE. . .
Then your not Paranoid enough to play EVE.
|
Spud Gunn
|
Posted - 2008.05.26 08:06:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Nicholai Stropkov
with bpo ME10, PE V i can make them for 108M, this thread sux
I assume the BPO, the cost to research it, and the time to skill up PE to 5 were all free, right?
|
Ancorehraq sis
Minmatar Mafia
|
Posted - 2008.05.26 08:53:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Spud Gunn
Originally by: Nicholai Stropkov
with bpo ME10, PE V i can make them for 108M, this thread sux
I assume the BPO, the cost to research it, and the time to skill up PE to 5 were all free, right?
Yes. Amortization, remember? Or do you invest in a BPO, build 3 ships and then give up?
|
Visse Krenal
Republic Military School
|
Posted - 2008.05.26 09:03:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Spud Gunn
Originally by: Nicholai Stropkov
with bpo ME10, PE V i can make them for 108M, this thread sux
I assume the BPO, the cost to research it, and the time to skill up PE to 5 were all free, right?
While not necessarily "free" the BPO is an investment. Just because your wallet decreased doesn't mean you lost value.
The PE skill is hard to assign a fixed isk price per unit to, especially since one would have trained it purely to allow yourself to have larger profits via manufacturing in the first place. It pays for itself without raising the price of your goods.
These things don't require him to sell all his BSes at any given semi-cartel price. Unless you are forced to produce fixed number of units which balance out at a set-in-stone profit target when sold at the semi-cartel rate, you can price your units wherever you like above your mineral and production line costs.
|
mikeh24
UNITED STAR SYNDICATE
Ka-Tet
|
Posted - 2008.05.26 12:22:00 -
[30]
just buy them and resell
|
|
|
NanoDerek
|
Posted - 2008.05.26 12:42:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Spud Gunn
Originally by: Nicholai Stropkov
with bpo ME10, PE V i can make them for 108M, this thread sux
I assume the BPO, the cost to research it, and the time to skill up PE to 5 were all free, right?
125 is more than 108, right?
|
Letrange
Chaosstorm Corporation
Apoapsis Multiversal Consortium
|
Posted - 2008.05.26 19:27:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Spud Gunn
Originally by: Nicholai Stropkov
with bpo ME10, PE V i can make them for 108M, this thread sux
I assume the BPO, the cost to research it, and the time to skill up PE to 5 were all free, right?
Actually the value of the BPO is independent of the item it produces. He actually increased the value of the BPO MORE than it cost him to research it to ME10. Should he decide to get out of the Maelstrom market and sell his BPO that's when he'll realize his profit on the BPO itself.
To give you an idea, it only costs about 2-4mil isk to research a BS BPO to ME:10 (the variance is due to the variable price of the POS fuel or the exact slot charges your alliance charges for the research), but you can then re-sell that BPO for about 10-100mil more than it cost you to buy initially. So you can totally ignore the cost of the BPO for production purposes, since it has intrinsic value on it's own.
|
Xonox Galatorg
Pulsar Combat Supplies
Alternative Realities
|
Posted - 2008.05.26 19:48:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Polly Prissypantz
It's not about what the CCP listed price is. It's about what the market value of the minerals used to build the ship are worth... And using Jita prices I can say with relative certainty (I don't even buy/sell Maelstroms) that 125m is below mineral value. The thing is, as soon as it drops below the magic mineral value on the market, dirty peeps like me with 100% refine and no tax just buy them and melt them down. So... By all means KEEP UNDERCUTTING.
This is exactly how I feel. It nice to not have to buy minerals at the normal cost when you can just look around for a while, find people that are selling something too cheap, buy up the ships or modules for reprocessing, then make something that they should have made in the first place.
Sure you can buy and resell them at the price they should be, but I find that turning them into something else that makes more profit is much better. If you buy them and put them back on the market in the same region for what they should be you could run into the problem that the same person will keep putting up those items and end up competing with you. You can make more profit by reprocessing and building something worthwhile.
I REALLY like it when people start selling large ships for well under the cost because this is lots of cheaper minerals.
-Xonox
Pulsar Combat Supplies, Director of Production and POS |
Tiirae
The New Era
HUZZAH FEDERATION
|
Posted - 2008.05.26 21:59:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Saska D'light
If you are going to flame me then you could at least use a spell checker. :|
Check the topic title, doofus :P
|
Nicholai Stropkov
|
Posted - 2008.05.26 22:48:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Spud Gunn
Originally by: Nicholai Stropkov
with bpo ME10, PE V i can make them for 108M, this thread sux
I assume the BPO, the cost to research it, and the time to skill up PE to 5 were all free, right?
I don't own maelstrom bpo. I bought 10 run bpc ME 10, PE 5 for 6M. The price of bpc is included in the cost.The cost of maelstrom bpc is in the range of 0.6-1M per run depending on ML researched.
Originally by: Spud Gunn
the time to skill up PE to 5
You must be joking...
|
Pwett
QUANT Corp.
QUANT Hegemony
|
Posted - 2008.05.26 23:19:00 -
[36]
using the 7-day numbers I can build one for 104,035,041.58
_______________
Pwett
CEO, Founder, & Executor
<Q> QUANT Hegemony
|
Kazzac Elentria
|
Posted - 2008.05.27 03:34:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Alex Salas
I am sorry mate, traders gouge pvpers in the market and pvpers gouge traders through ganks/ransom. There are more ways to take down a person than a autocannons/blasters/beams/heavies.
And they call people who pew pew the real pirates.  |
Ragoul Gurmok
EVEREADY
|
Posted - 2008.05.27 07:25:00 -
[38]
seeing as ur angry i'll take ur maelstrom BPO for 800 mill :P waiting for contract. play the game use ur noggin :P
Freightering Service |
Sir Substance
|
Posted - 2008.05.27 08:25:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Alex Salas
I am sorry mate, traders gouge pvpers in the market and pvpers gouge traders through ganks/ransom. There are more ways to take down a person than a autocannons/blasters/beams/heavies.
and us manufacturers get stuck on the sidelines eh?
i would pod anyone who sold a BS for one mil more then it cost the build. epic fail @ profits.
|
Wieting Foyu
Product Number 3
|
Posted - 2008.05.27 09:17:00 -
[40]
Using your logic then all buy orders should be higher because no one will fulfill them anyway at a loss. If you are using Jita prices to decide what it cost to build you should GTFOOJ. there are 62 other regions and half of em sell items much much lower than that laghole. You want to stop the prices then buy the cheap ship look who sold it and stalk them. Whining on a thread doesn't teach anyone.
Wieting Foyu
Foyu Investments
|
|
|
Oakrayven
Federal Navy Academy
|
Posted - 2008.05.27 13:10:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Sir Substance
Originally by: Alex Salas
I am sorry mate, traders gouge pvpers in the market and pvpers gouge traders through ganks/ransom. There are more ways to take down a person than a autocannons/blasters/beams/heavies.
and us manufacturers get stuck on the sidelines eh?
i would pod anyone who sold a BS for one mil more then it cost the build. epic fail @ profits.
Anyone who is taking what is less than a 1% margin is poding themselves far more efficently than you can. . . LOL
***** ****
Trust Aura. Aura is Your Friend.
If your too paranoid to play EVE. . .
Then your not paranoid ENOUGH to play EVE |
Kaworu Tabris
|
Posted - 2008.05.27 15:12:00 -
[42]
I'd be very surprised if these weren't immediately bought/resold when you posted this.
Rather than complain about it, you should have bought them and sold them yourself.
You just made someone rich(er).
Choleric temper FTW!
|
Polly Prissypantz
|
Posted - 2008.05.27 18:33:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Wieting Foyu
Using your logic then all buy orders should be higher because no one will fulfill them anyway at a loss. If you are using Jita prices to decide what it cost to build you should GTFOOJ. there are 62 other regions and half of em sell items much much lower than that laghole. You want to stop the prices then buy the cheap ship look who sold it and stalk them. Whining on a thread doesn't teach anyone.
Wieting Foyu
Foyu Investments
While prices do vary (both up and down) in the other regions, if your goal is high volume turnover, Jita is the only real place to do it. The other smaller hubs, while still having relatively decent movement of goods, pale in comparison to Jita's volumes.
So basically, while you can generally do things more profitably outside of Jita, it's always at a smaller scale. Once you try and scale up, you need higher supply/demand to meet that scale, and Jita meets that.
|
Aiden Bismuth
Die Boeremag
|
Posted - 2008.05.29 09:58:00 -
[44]
In my limited time in EVE, I have put a few things, mostly minerals, on the market. I check the regional market, and price based on that. More complex costing models can come into play later, and so far I have sold everything.
I have also bought ships at well below region average, and other items, for 4-5 jumps at the most, well worth it IMHO.
AB
|
Uncle Mo
Raddick Explorations
|
Posted - 2008.05.30 05:08:00 -
[45]
Worst thread ever? Naaa, it did give me a laugh.
---------------------------------------------
Official US ambassador to the UK.
|
Thuraya Salairs
Eve Liberation Force
|
Posted - 2008.05.30 08:31:00 -
[46]
Quote:
I'm not raging, I'm just disappointed in you darling. When running a level 1 mission becomes more profitable than making and selling a BS something is wrong.
I agree with that. Yes i can see someone selling it at a low price for a quick sale but when it becomes the standard price there is something really wrong.
|
David Miliband
Evil Proctologists
|
Posted - 2008.05.31 11:24:00 -
[47]
LoL @ the OP... I sell T3 BS for around 125mill or whatever the lowest order is and make over 10 mill profit... you just have to mine some of the mins yourself.
|
Demtalin le'Mercennaire
The Arrow Project
Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2008.05.31 15:25:00 -
[48]
Originally by: David Miliband
LoL @ the OP... I sell T3 BS for around 125mill or whatever the lowest order is and make over 10 mill profit... you just have to mine some of the mins yourself.
And then add the market price of those minerals to the cost price for that ship
--------
Billy Jean is not my lover |
Hikaru Sulu
Black Legion Industries
|
Posted - 2008.05.31 23:31:00 -
[49]
In Soviet Russia, Battleship buys YOU!
Originally by: Morrow Disca
So, I find myself suddenly cross training for Amarr. .... because the abaddon firing lasers looks cooler than the Fonz carrying a big bag of cool things. |
Trader Axim
|
Posted - 2008.06.01 01:12:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Hikaru Sulu
In Soviet Russia, Battleship buys YOU!
WIN
|
|
|
Wieting Foyu
Product Number 3
|
Posted - 2008.06.02 00:35:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Polly Prissypantz
Originally by: Wieting Foyu
Using your logic then all buy orders should be higher because no one will fulfill them anyway at a loss. If you are using Jita prices to decide what it cost to build you should GTFOOJ. there are 62 other regions and half of em sell items much much lower than that laghole. You want to stop the prices then buy the cheap ship look who sold it and stalk them. Whining on a thread doesn't teach anyone.
Wieting Foyu
Foyu Investments
While prices do vary (both up and down) in the other regions, if your goal is high volume turnover, Jita is the only real place to do it. The other smaller hubs, while still having relatively decent movement of goods, pale in comparison to Jita's volumes.
So basically, while you can generally do things more profitably outside of Jita, it's always at a smaller scale. Once you try and scale up, you need higher supply/demand to meet that scale, and Jita meets that.
I respectfully disagree. In Jita more items may sell but you have more opponents undercutting you every 10 seconds by .01 isk. If 100 items are sold per day, that doesn't mean they are YOUR items. You would be lucky to get 10% of the sales for the items that day. In another region 10-20 may sell per day but you are the lowest price more often so your 100 items are sold within a week at your asking price rather than 2 weeks of continuously lowering your price.
|
Toria Nynys
|
Posted - 2008.06.02 04:54:00 -
[52]
It never ceases to amaze me how
1. People input *SELL ORDER* pricing into meep or their spreadsheet and whine how they can't make any money producing at PE IV with an unresearched BPO.
2. In every thread at least one guy pipes up with the equivalent of "minerals I mine are free."
Yes, it's possible to eventually move minerals with sell orders. But you have to babysit *8* sell orders instead of 1. Plus there may be hauling involved. I'll pass, thanks.
As for the free minerals viewpoint: more money for your free stuff is better than less money for your free stuff.
|
Toria Nynys
|
Posted - 2008.06.02 04:58:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Wieting Foyu
In another region 10-20 may sell per day but you are the lowest price more often so your 100 items are sold within a week at your asking price rather than 2 weeks of continuously lowering your price.
Not so much. Nobody is forcing you to play .01 isk games. If your profit margin and volume are large enough to play in Jita then undercut like you mean business -- by 5% or so. Resellers will pick up your goods and everyone's happy. You've traded a bit of profit for their time.
If your profit margin is so thin that you can't do that -- well, enjoy your slow sales and .01 isk fun.
|
Nekopyat
|
Posted - 2008.06.02 17:18:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Karanth
And Trader D sees this, goes "ROFL tools" and buys it all up, relists it at 140mil, and makes a 15mil profit on every ship.
This is the other side of the often mis-used 'opportunity cost' mantra that gets spoken of over and over.
Trader D, being a trader, yes just made a nice profit. However Trader D now has those assets locked in a sell order that will take time.
Builder C got a quick sale and again has liquid assets to work with, which can then be immediately reinvested.
Let's look at how this could potentially pan out to Builder C's advantage. Some numbers I'm pulling from the thread, others I"m making up since I am mearly trying to give a hypothetical example, not trying to pick apart this specific instance.
Say the average selling price is, as was said, 140M and it takes 4 days to sell at this price. Say the sell price of the raw materials is 100M.
Builder C builds the ship and puts it on the market for 120M, which represents a 20M profit margin. Trader D snaps up the ship (let's assume after 1 day to notice) and puts the ship back up on the market for 140M.
At first glance Builder C just lost out on 20M in profit. However, Builder C now has that 120M in liquid assets, meaning they can turn around and immediately put another ship on the market.
If this is repeated over the 4 days it takes to sell the original 140M ship, Builder C has the potential for having 4 sales at 20M profit each, resulting in a net profit of 80M. Trader D on the other hand has sold a total of one ship for a total profit of 20M with 300M in raw material potential lock in transactions.
Depending on the demand this can continue for quite some time. It is also how whole-saling often works. The producer keeps thier liquid assests high to maximize construction while the traders make money from nowhere but sit on massive locked assets.
|
Janus Cohen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
|
Posted - 2008.06.02 17:31:00 -
[55]
At the risk of sounding like walmart..... I like the idea of falling prices. Seeing that mining cost next to nothing, and that you can have a corp full of miners means that you could build and sell ships for any price that you want. If you buy minerals, well that sucks for you.... I think it would do wonders for EVE to have a corp that acts like Walmart.....lol could call it the sweatshoppe alliance
Because when it is all said and done, it is about who has the most isk. |
Vyktor Abyss
EnTech
|
Posted - 2008.06.02 17:52:00 -
[56]
I liked your Moron A and Moron B discussion earlier.
But you forgot Moron C...
He/She's the moron who rather than sees an opportunity to cash in on others selling 'below value', by buying and reselling those maelstroms for a profit instead decides to come to the forum and whine about low prices in the wrong section of the forum as if people will care about the whine.
There's no such thing as a broken market.
|
Rono Vizu
Imperial Shipment
|
Posted - 2008.06.02 19:00:00 -
[57]
Yeah and tbh prices should have fallen a long time ago......
|
Wieting Foyu
Product Number 3
|
Posted - 2008.06.02 20:49:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Toria Nynys
Originally by: Wieting Foyu
In another region 10-20 may sell per day but you are the lowest price more often so your 100 items are sold within a week at your asking price rather than 2 weeks of continuously lowering your price.
Not so much. Nobody is forcing you to play .01 isk games. If your profit margin and volume are large enough to play in Jita then undercut like you mean business -- by 5% or so. Resellers will pick up your goods and everyone's happy. You've traded a bit of profit for their time.
If your profit margin is so thin that you can't do that -- well, enjoy your slow sales and .01 isk fun.
My point is not the undercutting my point is not having to every second. So your slow sales are in Jita not any other market because you are undercut when you just go to the bathroom and 6 more items sell in that period of time that could have been yours. So in reality you are "stuck" with 6 more items you didn't have to have that would have sold in the same amount of time somewhere else with your computer off. In addition they are now lower than what you wanted since you are undercut by 3-4 others.
I ALWAYS undercut that last guy by 2-5%. I can always make a profit by just selling to the buy orders let alone leaving them up for sale. Making a profit isn't the issue. It is how long it takes for the amount of isk/hour. And my point is you make more isk/hour in other regions where you don't have to babysit and get undercut by 20 others so you can focus on looking for more items to buy/sell in what region or actually play the game instead of making it a pretty chatroom.
Yes Jita has very high volume.. But again using same example. 100 items get sold that day they are all not yours and at varying prices where the same item sells 20 a day in a different region and they are all yours at the original price.
|
Becki
|
Posted - 2008.06.03 16:02:00 -
[59]
Well i am a still a gimp Producer Wannabe (PE just @ 4)
But i can produce this ship for about 115m with current ore prices from MMI.
So 125m? Who cares? If you care, buy those 3 and resell them @ 140m = 4 happy people...
|
Alex Redwidth
|
Posted - 2008.06.03 18:19:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Nekopyat
If this is repeated over the 4 days it takes to sell the original 140M ship, Builder C has the potential for having 4 sales at 20M profit each, resulting in a net profit of 80M.
It isn't that simple. Builder is relying on trader to buy those ships to make a one day sale, or else they are stuck selling to the same 'one ship every 4 days' market the trader is. If they already bought and are waiting to sell one 120m ship, they aren't likely to keep buying them for the next four days.
This does however highlight why, as a manufacturer, it is extremely important to trade your goods across many regions, thus being able to take advantage not only of more buyers for your goods, but more speculative traders who'll be enticed into buying and relisting your goods.
|
|
|
Oakrayven
Federal Navy Academy
|
Posted - 2008.06.04 05:01:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Rono Vizu
Yeah and tbh prices should have fallen a long time ago......
Prices on ships cant realy fall below the insurance fraud price.
***** ****
Trust Aura. Aura is Your Friend.
If your too paranoid to play EVE. . .
Then your not paranoid ENOUGH to play EVE |
Kelmor Malbeth
HellJumpers Corp
Diabolic Paradox
|
Posted - 2008.06.04 11:53:00 -
[62]
There was another opption that i didn`t see anyone else mention (maybe i missed it)
if you can not make the ship for the lowest price, look to where you can sell it for the highest.
People (well at least some) are lazy, a fair few would rather pay 10m + over the odds for a ship that is in the same station as they are rather than travle x amount of jumps to buy the cheapest. it requiers more thought and analysis of where you think ships are being brought (and by who for what) and maybe some more paitents.
for example any ship thats used for pvp are likily to have a higher demand in low sec areas (yes there is risk in getting ships there, but risk = reward)
it`s a player driven market, i can guarnetee you that these other people are not making a string of battle ships to lose isk on them... just try to think though the problem and find a soultion that works for you, there are hundreds of possiblities. if you can`t find one maybe manufacturing is not for you.
|
Nekopyat
|
Posted - 2008.06.04 14:27:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Alex Redwidth
It isn't that simple. Builder is relying on trader to buy those ships to make a one day sale, or else they are stuck selling to the same 'one ship every 4 days' market the trader is. If they already bought and are waiting to sell one 120m ship, they aren't likely to keep buying them for the next four days.
Quite true. My example was very simplified and is only a potential situation depending on what the market actually looks like. A more realistic example would be the builder rotating what they produce so they do not oversaturate the market for a specific ship.
|
Kazzac Elentria
|
Posted - 2008.06.04 16:01:00 -
[64]
Edited by: Kazzac Elentria on 04/06/2008 16:01:36
Originally by: Karanth
Trader D, being a trader, yes just made a nice profit. However Trader D now has those assets locked in a sell order that will take time.
Another misnomer builders tend to think about traders.
If we are buying up and relisting, rest assured that we have the current volume in our mind when we buy everything out. We'll have that liquid faster than you can imagine really.
Buying up and relisting does always have the end goal of profiting of each item.
Keep that in mind when pricing your items against traders |
Blazing Fire
Interstellar Operations Incorporated
|
Posted - 2008.06.05 10:50:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Oakrayven
Edited by: Oakrayven on 26/05/2008 04:22:04
ok lets see just how many assumptions you are makeing
1) that he flies a hulk
2) that hes a mining indi and not a missioning indi like me
1b& 2b)that "he" actualy mines his minerals and does not get them on the market place, after all some people get their minerals for a fraction of the mineral value by buying loot/roids-minerals as it is with their system wide buy orders
3) that its not an alt thats making the sale that never leaves the hanger
4) that he is on at the same time you are.
5 that he dosent have enough of a tank on his ship hold out untill concord shows up to blow you to scrap for even trying.
6) that hes flying something that is expensive for him to replace. (theirs people I know who are pefectly fine flying low rent frigates)
7) that you podkilling him will make him give a crap. and if he PvPs, the odds of him giveing a crap about loosing yet another ship/clone are between nill and none.
if any one of thoes things that you are assuming is incorect then your odds of trashing whatever it is he is flying and thus hurting his fealings, well they aint so good are they?
THIS!
Blazing Fire
CEO
Interstellar Operations Incorporated
Corp web site
Services
[Service] Killboard hosting
[Service] Forum hosting
[Service] Web site hosting
[Service] Obelisk for rent
[Service] Alliance Creation |
Oakrayven
Federal Navy Academy
|
Posted - 2008.06.05 13:22:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Blazing Fire
Originally by: Oakrayven
Edited by: Oakrayven on 26/05/2008 04:22:04
ok lets see just how many assumptions you are makeing
1) that he flies a hulk
2) that hes a mining indi and not a missioning indi like me
1b& 2b)that "he" actualy mines his minerals and does not get them on the market place, after all some people get their minerals for a fraction of the mineral value by buying loot/roids-minerals as it is with their system wide buy orders
3) that its not an alt thats making the sale that never leaves the hanger
4) that he is on at the same time you are.
5 that he dosent have enough of a tank on his ship hold out untill concord shows up to blow you to scrap for even trying.
6) that hes flying something that is expensive for him to replace. (theirs people I know who are pefectly fine flying low rent frigates)
7) that you podkilling him will make him give a crap. and if he PvPs, the odds of him giveing a crap about loosing yet another ship/clone are between nill and none.
if any one of thoes things that you are assuming is incorect then your odds of trashing whatever it is he is flying and thus hurting his fealings, well they aint so good are they?
THIS!
oh thats you?
***** ****
Trust Aura. Aura is Your Friend.
If your too paranoid to play EVE. . .
Then your not paranoid ENOUGH to play EVE |
Yuki Asuka
|
Posted - 2008.06.06 05:37:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Saska D'light
How can anyone possibly defend stupidity of the magnitude unless they are doing it themselves. The reason this has happened is very simple. Moron A has seen the prices at 140 million and wants a quick sale so puts price at 125 million, now moron B sees this and thinks "!*gleee*" and instead of putting in at 140 mill and waiting 2 days for the silly cheap ships to sell puts his in at the same price. Moron C repeats this.
Welcome to Economics, moron.
People can charge whatever price the market will bear. Obviously there are a lot of people buying maelstroms, so they can change whatever they want. Don't like it, don't buy one.
And if somebody else undercuts your price, you have to deal with the competition. What are suggesting, CCP regulate market prices to prevent competitive pricing? Communism! 
|
Gantrithor105
Acerbus Vindictum
Critical Dissent
|
Posted - 2008.06.07 16:58:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Janus Cohen
At the risk of sounding like walmart..... I like the idea of falling prices. Seeing that mining cost next to nothing, and that you can have a corp full of miners means that you could build and sell ships for any price that you want. If you buy minerals, well that sucks for you.... I think it would do wonders for EVE to have a corp that acts like Walmart.....lol could call it the sweatshoppe alliance
Congrats... you're an idiot. Go play counter-strike
|
Janus Cohen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
|
Posted - 2008.06.07 19:15:00 -
[69]
Hey no need to be mean dude. I was just asking why not have falling prices? If some one wants to undercut the competition let them it is the way of a free market.
Because when it is all said and done, it is about who has the most isk. |
|
|
| |
|
| Pages: 1 2 3 :: [one page] |