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Senghir Deep Space Security	Posted - 2008.05.27 01:24:00 - [1] There are people out there like me who have their doubts on the FW side of things. Would love to try it maybe, but perhaps the risk is too high for their mains. So either they dont play or instead use an alt account. CCP, you guys want to get people into FW right? So how about this: Could it be possible to give everyone a one-time free character on their account? The name, face etc is down to the player. There is a small box that the player can tick for what faction they would like to join. And this character comes with some combat skills, the kind one might need to be able to function in some factional warfare, but nothing so much as they could 'own' outright. We are talking here something above the level of a starter character, but less than something 3 months old (specifics can be tweaked, I'm not a dev). You would have to stop any training on your other characters on that account just like normal to train this character. But essentially it is a quick start character for those who only have hauler characters, or those who dont want to leave a corp/alliance/missioning character if it doesnt work out etc. And brand new players wont think 'wow, this is cool but how do I even start?'. Once the player ticks what faction they want to join, they start with enough points to join that faction nad start as a member. They dont start with a ship but are given enough ISK for something very basic. This is a once only offer also. This kind of character cant be created again. So no-one will be able to spam FW with these alts. For those who already have a great PVP setup, they wont be displaced by the new character. This gives all the people I've seen who are unsure on the forums a chance to jump in head first to pvp. Nothing to risk on their mains initially. If they like it, these characters might become their mains. Or they may sign up their mains! Also, with the great influx of these equally created one-time characters, Faction Warfare would start on a much more equal footing. You'd be much more likely to meet someone your own skill and kit level than someone far above. You even get the likelihood that you'd see those T1 frigate/cruiser gangs roaming about mentioned in the live dev blog. How does this sound? If something like this was implemented, I'd be straight in no questions asked. Carebear ûnoun 1. An EVE pilot who has evolved further than a dog chasing its tail.
Nikita Alterana	Posted - 2008.05.27 01:27:00 - [2] everyone would then have more starting SP, and the vets (and me) would whine about how its unfair that the new peoples get more SP. no. __________________________________________________
Senghir Deep Space Security	Posted - 2008.05.27 01:29:00 - [3] A lot of PVPers complain about lack of people to fight. This would generate a lot of people to fight. And people less skilled than yourself. Plus, CCP implemented a while back an increase to sarting skill points. This already occurred with no detrement to the game. But thank you for your response. Good ot get all opinions. Carebear ûnoun 1. An EVE pilot who has evolved further than a dog chasing its tail.
Tiirae The New Era HUZZAH FEDERATION	Posted - 2008.05.27 01:42:00 - [4] It might be workable if this character was auto-enlisted in a milita, couldn't train anything, and couldn't leave that militia. In that case, you could get maybe 3/4m SP and be able to fly up to tier 1 BS. You would have skills suitable for that race's primary weapons, tanking, and ewar as well as misc navigation skills. However, you're basically creating TF2-in-space then, it just doesn't feel right in the Eve galaxy.
Senghir Deep Space Security	Posted - 2008.05.27 01:46:00 - [5] Originally by: Tiirae It might be workable if this character was auto-enlisted in a milita, couldn't train anything, and couldn't leave that militia. In that case, you could get maybe 3/4m SP and be able to fly up to tier 1 BS. You would have skills suitable for that race's primary weapons, tanking, and ewar as well as misc navigation skills. However, you're basically creating TF2-in-space then, it just doesn't feel right in the Eve galaxy. Well, faction warfare is going to have pvp contested zones, much like a regular fps game has a 'capture territories' mode. But aside from that, I was thinking far below BS skill level. I'm talking up to cruiser maybe. Locking its ability to train is an option. I'd prefer to see it able to train, but if the only way to make it fair or balanced was to not be able to train it, I'd still be wiling to give it a go. Carebear ûnoun 1. An EVE pilot who has evolved further than a dog chasing its tail.
Pr1ncess Alia Perkone	Posted - 2008.05.27 01:47:00 - [6] jeez guys this is the eve forums STOP MAKING SO MUCH SENSE seriously i like the idea and would take advantage of it myself, but no free accounts of course, would only work if it was a char added to account and that would mean you would have to free up a character slot, most ppl have alts they dont use and just made a picture and could do this. god knows i'd love to put this forum alt in the dumpster and have another combat pilot, not looking forward to using my main for FW cause i have to leave alliance etc. However, others use all 3 slots on their account and would cry cause they would miss out on a free 2.5mil SP alt... then new ppl signing up for FW would cry because they have to train up from the ground... well lets just say LOTS of crying would start, then the devs would get a headache and have to take some time off work, next thing you know i have to wait 6 more months for FW and then I WOULD BE buggered off and you wouldn't like me when i'm buggered off so, no
Senghir Deep Space Security	Posted - 2008.05.27 01:49:00 - [7] Edited by: Senghir on 27/05/2008 01:51:04 Originally by: Pr1ncess Alia jeez guys this is the eve forums STOP MAKING SO MUCH SENSE seriously i like the idea and would take advantage of it myself, but no free accounts of course, would only work if it was a char added to account and that would mean you would have to free up a character slot, most ppl have alts they dont use and just made a picture and could do this. god knows i'd love to put this forum alt in the dumpster and have another combat pilot, not looking forward to using my main for FW cause i have to leave alliance etc. However, others use all 3 slots on their account and would cry cause they would miss out on a free 2.5mil SP alt... then new ppl signing up for FW would cry because they have to train up from the ground... well lets just say LOTS of crying would start, then the devs would get a headache and have to take some time off work, next thing you know i have to wait 6 more months for FW and then I WOULD BE buggered off and you wouldn't like me when i'm buggered off so, no I did say in my original post that it would be a new character on the same account Edit: And it can be an extra slot to your max slots already on there. No need to miss out. Carebear* ûnoun 1. An EVE pilot who has evolved further than a dog chasing its tail.
Pr1ncess Alia Perkone	Posted - 2008.05.27 02:04:00 - [8] Originally by: Senghir Edited by: Senghir on 27/05/2008 01:51:04 Originally by: Pr1ncess Alia jeez guys this is the eve forums STOP MAKING SO MUCH SENSE seriously i like the idea and would take advantage of it myself, but no free accounts of course, would only work if it was a char added to account and that would mean you would have to free up a character slot, most ppl have alts they dont use and just made a picture and could do this. god knows i'd love to put this forum alt in the dumpster and have another combat pilot, not looking forward to using my main for FW cause i have to leave alliance etc. However, others use all 3 slots on their account and would cry cause they would miss out on a free 2.5mil SP alt... then new ppl signing up for FW would cry because they have to train up from the ground... well lets just say LOTS of crying would start, then the devs would get a headache and have to take some time off work, next thing you know i have to wait 6 more months for FW and then I WOULD BE buggered off and you wouldn't like me when i'm buggered off so, no I did say in my original post that it would be a new character on the same account *Edit: And it can be an extra slot to your max slots already on there. No need to miss out. well in that case, get on it ccp!!
Sidewayzracer Murder Training Facilites	Posted - 2008.05.27 02:11:00 - [9] and whats stopping newer players from getting the FW character and then leave the faction. Now they have a few million SP character by doing nothing. Your idea sucks
Frozen Fallout Mecha Enterprises Group PURGE.	Posted - 2008.05.27 02:14:00 - [10] Only problem I see is that unless the new character had the same SP as newbies, newbies would now start with what ever pre made character that CCP makes for them because it will have more combat skills for FW and the game in generally. And to just give it out to non newbies I don't even want to think about all of the whining that will happen on the forums over that. Help a war vet get his body back!
Senghir Deep Space Security	Posted - 2008.05.27 02:16:00 - [11] Originally by: Sidewayzracer and whats stopping newer players from getting the FW character and then leave the faction. Now they have a few million SP character by doing nothing. Your idea sucks Token flame I suppose. Not so constructive. Read my post above. CCP released a patch a while ago which started every new character with more skillpoints. This has alreayd been done. If that sucked so much, why havent you cancelled your account? Carebear ûnoun 1. An EVE pilot who has evolved further than a dog chasing its tail.
Dirk Magnum Spearhead Endeavors	Posted - 2008.05.27 02:18:00 - [12] Edited by: Dirk Magnum on 27/05/2008 02:18:50 As self-declared spokesman for the One Person - One Account Anti-Alt crowd, I bring the following message: the OP made our heads explode But what's to stop people or corps from temporarily just signing onto FW? Do your standings get permanently borked even after you've left or something?
Senghir Deep Space Security	Posted - 2008.05.27 02:18:00 - [13] Edited by: Senghir on 27/05/2008 02:24:56 Originally by: Frozen Fallout Only problem I see is that unless the new character had the same SP as newbies, newbies would now start with what ever pre made character that CCP makes for them because it will have more combat skills for FW and the game in generally. And to just give it out to non newbies I don't even want to think about all of the whining that will happen on the forums over that. That is something that needs to be ironed out yeah. I dont know how, but I think it is a smaller issue on the whole, as in more benefit would be got from having the option than not. A possible solution could be that the new characters are only available for a limited time, basically when FW is still new and shiny. Edit: typos typos everywhere Carebear* ûnoun 1. An EVE pilot who has evolved further than a dog chasing its tail.
Senghir Deep Space Security	Posted - 2008.05.27 02:21:00 - [14] Originally by: Dirk Magnum Edited by: Dirk Magnum on 27/05/2008 02:18:50 As self-declared spokesman for the One Person - One Account Anti-Alt crowd, I bring the following message: the OP made our heads explode But what's to stop people or corps from temporarily just signing onto FW? Do your standings get permanently borked even after you've left or something? To the first part of your post, is this a good thing or a bad thing? :D If it's a bad thing, then you don't have to take the offer :) Para 2; I dont know what happens if you leave a faction. CCP might have updated it in a blog. I assume your standings go down with that faction for quitting. Carebear ûnoun 1. An EVE pilot who has evolved further than a dog chasing its tail.
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2008.05.27 02:28:00 - [15] if the characters are only available on sisi or hell, just go try it out there on your main but then i suppose you have the problems of people deploying capships worry free and using all kinds of implants
Dirk Magnum Spearhead Endeavors	Posted - 2008.05.27 02:35:00 - [16] I'd be more afraid of long-term -5 standing to the enemy factions than a drop in standing to your main faction and its ally. I haven't seen a devblog on that either.
Senghir Deep Space Security	Posted - 2008.05.27 02:40:00 - [17] *Skill-point oh-noes reply buffer* 1. There has been a previous patch/es where new characters started with much higher skill points than ever before. Even to start with several skills at level V. This has happened already. 2. CCP has a legitimate implemented method of buying characters on other accounts with any skill points you require and request. So there are alreayd new players out there who will have bought these and thus started ahead of a regular new player. Once again something that exists. Carebear ûnoun 1. An EVE pilot who has evolved further than a dog chasing its tail.
Frozen Fallout Mecha Enterprises Group PURGE.	Posted - 2008.05.27 02:47:00 - [18] Edited by: Frozen Fallout on 27/05/2008 02:49:41 Originally by: Senghir Edited by: Senghir on 27/05/2008 02:24:56 Originally by: Frozen Fallout Only problem I see is that unless the new character had the same SP as newbies, newbies would now start with what ever pre made character that CCP makes for them because it will have more combat skills for FW and the game in generally. And to just give it out to non newbies I don't even want to think about all of the whining that will happen on the forums over that. That is something that needs to be ironed out yeah. I dont know how, but I think it is a smaller issue on the whole, as in more benefit would be got from having the option than not. A possible solution could be that the new characters are only available for a limited time, basically when FW is still new and shiny. Edit: typos typos everywhere For me I think the best idea is for people to try it out with there main. There seems to be allot of stuff in FW that will allow you to use cheap ships. Also it should be noted that any pvp "can" be done on the cheap if the person flying is ever wants to... but that's besides the point. I think one big thing some people are forgetting is that FW is not a solo only thing... Heck its not even geared towards solo play. You will be part of a fleet and fleets need roles filled. Lots of cheap ships can fill many roles in a fleet. Sure you cant make a 10 million isk sniper BS but you can fit a good EW ship or a Webber/Scrammer. Cruisers are cheap and easily fit. And if your ***ed off because you might have to join a new corp because your current one doesn't want to do FW well that's their choice and now its your choice to join FW or not. You don't need to and if you do you can always go back unless your corp wont let you. All I am trying to say is it seems like allot of work form a developers point of view with not so much pay off. As simple as it looks on the surface this would be extremely complicated to implement. And if they haven't been toying with the idea until you brought it up, it would take forever for us to actually see it implemented. I my self have to leave my corp which is full of real life friends so I can do FW. It's a hard decision but I want to find out for my self if FW is what I hope it might be. Help a war vet get his body back!
Shakari Sween Entropians on Vacation	Posted - 2008.05.27 02:47:00 - [19] While its an interesting idea you can all ready do this. A starting character has more than enough skills to fit out a frig very well. Most can even useing t2 small guns with less than a days training. They are pushing to throw away frigs and cruisers for FW, So giving them any more than what you start with allready is pointless as you can also fly a cruiser very well within 5 days or so. To be honest its just wishfull thinking and will never happen, if you want to use an alt on the same account make one now, spend 2 days training it up to use cruisers and ur gtg.
Senghir Deep Space Security	Posted - 2008.05.27 02:51:00 - [20] Originally by: Shakari Sween While its an interesting idea you can all ready do this. A starting character has more than enough skills to fit out a frig very well. Most can even useing t2 small guns with less than a days training. They are pushing to throw away frigs and cruisers for FW, So giving them any more than what you start with allready is pointless as you can also fly a cruiser very well within 5 days or so. To be honest its just wishfull thinking and will never happen, if you want to use an alt on the same account make one now, spend 2 days training it up to use cruisers and ur gtg. Possible. I had considered some of the starting characters arent too bad. You still need some more pvp focus in there though. Need to use things like webbers etc. I'm interested where they said they were pushing to throw away frigates and cruisers for FW. Not only does this seem extreme and a little abstract, it also goes against what was said in the live dev blog. Carebear ûnoun 1. An EVE pilot who has evolved further than a dog chasing its tail.
Senghir Deep Space Security	Posted - 2008.05.27 02:55:00 - [21] Edited by: Senghir on 27/05/2008 02:55:44 Quote: For me I think the best idea is for people to try it out with there main. There seems to be allot of stuff in FW that will allow you to use cheap ships. Also it should be noted that any pvp "can" be done on the cheap if the person flying is ever wants to... but that's besides the point. I think one big thing some people are forgetting is that FW is not a solo only thing... Heck its not even geared towards solo play. You will be part of a fleet and fleets need roles filled. Lots of cheap ships can fill many roles in a fleet. Sure you cant make a 10 million isk sniper BS but you can fit a good EW ship or a Webber/Scrammer. Cruisers are cheap and easily fit. And if your **ed off because you might have to join a new corp because your current one doesn't want to do FW well that's their choice and now its your choice to join FW or not. You don't need to and if you do you can always go back unless your corp wont let you. All I am trying to say is it seems like allot of work form a developers point of view with not so much pay off. As simple as it looks on the surface this would be extremely complicated to implement. And if they haven't been toying with the idea until you brought it up, it would take forever for us to actually see it implemented. I my self have to leave my corp which is full of real life friends so I can do FW. It's a hard decision but I want to find out for my self if FW is what I hope it might be. The big issue for some people isnt always the corp they must leave, but actually that once a faction is joined, that person is committed. If you want to pvp 6 days a week but on the 7th go back to your home system and mission run, you dont get that choice. You can and will be ganked. Suicide gankers already operate for no reason other than to 'lol' at the damage they caused. As far as your corp sacrifice goes. You shouldnt have to sacrifice something you've built with your real life friends and enjoy, just so you can see if this patch is worth it. My suggestion is aimed directly at people like you and me so we can see what it's all about without sacrificing everything we've got, whether that be a corp of real life friends, or a bloody expensive T2 BS :P Carebear** ûnoun 1. An EVE pilot who has evolved further than a dog chasing its tail.
Shakari Sween Entropians on Vacation	Posted - 2008.05.27 02:57:00 - [22] Originally by: Senghir Originally by: Shakari Sween While its an interesting idea you can all ready do this. A starting character has more than enough skills to fit out a frig very well. Most can even useing t2 small guns with less than a days training. They are pushing to throw away frigs and cruisers for FW, So giving them any more than what you start with allready is pointless as you can also fly a cruiser very well within 5 days or so. To be honest its just wishfull thinking and will never happen, if you want to use an alt on the same account make one now, spend 2 days training it up to use cruisers and ur gtg. Possible. I had considered some of the starting characters arent too bad. You still need some more pvp focus in there though. Need to use things like webbers etc. I'm interested where they said they were pushing to throw away frigates and cruisers for FW. Not only does this seem extreme and a little abstract, it also goes against what was said in the live dev blog. they said it in the live dev blog Its also put into the warfare dead space areas which only let certian class's of ships in, ie u cant go in a bs or bc etc. I havent tried it out on sisi but thats what i've read and heard.
Frozen Fallout Mecha Enterprises Group PURGE.	Posted - 2008.05.27 02:57:00 - [23] Originally by: Senghir Originally by: Shakari Sween While its an interesting idea you can all ready do this. A starting character has more than enough skills to fit out a frig very well. Most can even useing t2 small guns with less than a days training. They are pushing to throw away frigs and cruisers for FW, So giving them any more than what you start with allready is pointless as you can also fly a cruiser very well within 5 days or so. To be honest its just wishfull thinking and will never happen, if you want to use an alt on the same account make one now, spend 2 days training it up to use cruisers and ur gtg. Possible. I had considered some of the starting characters arent too bad. You still need some more pvp focus in there though. Need to use things like webbers etc. I'm interested where they said they were pushing to throw away frigates and cruisers for FW. Not only does this seem extreme and a little abstract, it also goes against what was said in the live dev blog. The live dev blog said that there will be missions and plexs that will have restrictions on T1 or T2 and size of ship. Although the roaming aspect of FW is anything goes and there will be some FW with Caps and the like but there will be aspects of FW that will allow for cheap ships and as I stated above any PvP can be done in a cheap ship if you fill the right role in a fleet. Intercepters are very cheap and also fill a great role in a fleet. Heck even a frig can do the job of an inty just not as well but for much cheaper. Its not always what you fly but who you fly with and the tactics that you all are using. Help a war vet get his body back!
masternerdguy	Posted - 2008.05.27 02:57:00 - [24] i am 100% AGAINST factional warfare. it is gonna draw people away from legitimate corporations.
Senghir Deep Space Security	Posted - 2008.05.27 02:59:00 - [25] Originally by: Shakari Sween they said it in the live dev blog Its also put into the warfare dead space areas which only let certian class's of ships in, ie u cant go in a bs or bc etc. I havent tried it out on sisi but thats what i've read and heard. Aha, I think we've misunderstood eachother. You mean they are pushing towards throwaway frigs and cruisers. That's what I mean too :) I read your "pushing to throwaway" as 'pushing to get rid of'. Carebear ûnoun 1. An EVE pilot who has evolved further than a dog chasing its tail.
Kuzya Morozov The Older Gamers R0ADKILL	Posted - 2008.05.27 03:00:00 - [26] Or how about we give everyone 450m SP so the battlefield will be even? And it won't matter on how much time you've spent training anymore? And you could help out newbies? This is a good idea! Right? Right?
Senghir Deep Space Security	Posted - 2008.05.27 03:01:00 - [27] Originally by: Kuzya Morozov Or how about we give everyone 450m SP so the battlefield will be even? And it won't matter on how much time you've spent training anymore? And you could help out newbies? This is a good idea! Right? Right? Your post counts as spam I think. If you were serious, read my specially crafted 'buffer post' that seems perfect for your needs. Carebear ûnoun 1. An EVE pilot who has evolved further than a dog chasing its tail.
Sidewayzracer Murder Training Facilites	Posted - 2008.05.27 03:11:00 - [28] Originally by: Senghir Edited by: Senghir on 27/05/2008 02:26:46 Originally by: Sidewayzracer and whats stopping newer players from getting the FW character and then leave the faction. Now they have a few million SP character by doing nothing. Your idea sucks Token flame I suppose. Not so constructive. Read my post above. CCP released a patch a while ago which started every new character with more skillpoints. This has already been done. If that sucked so much, why havent you cancelled your account and given me your stuff? So you want to increase the SP of new players more so and not just for factional warfare? If thats the case sure why not give em a extra 100K worth of learning skills would be a big plus tbh. But you want only if they sign up for FW and then quitting it to just get the higher SP character. I only give my stuff away to people that would make good use of it
Senghir Deep Space Security	Posted - 2008.05.27 03:14:00 - [29] Originally by: Kuzya Morozov No, it counts as sarcasm. Just because you believe your idea is right and everyone else should like, doesn't mean what I post is spam. Firstly, I welcome constructive disagreement, as others on this thread have already managed. They manage it without sarcasm. Secondly, I have no care in the world whether you personally or anyone else agrees. It sounds harsh, but essentially this is a forum for expressing ideas constructively and for CCP to read and agree or disgree or not comment as they see fit. CCPs opinion is the one I'm ultimately interested in. In the mean time I would like to discuss with people the merits of the idea, and to answer questions/discuss as best I can for where it falls down. Unfortunately I'm spending a bit more of my time than I'd like dealing with senseless posts like your own that dont convey anything cosntructively and show that you havent actually read my posts properly anyway to make such a reply. Carebear ûnoun 1. An EVE pilot who has evolved further than a dog chasing its tail.
Senghir Deep Space Security	Posted - 2008.05.27 03:18:00 - [30] Originally by: Sidewayzracer So you want to increase the SP of new players more so and not just for factional warfare? If thats the case sure why not give em a extra 100K worth of learning skills would be a big plus tbh. But you want only if they sign up for FW and then quitting it to just get the higher SP character. I only give my stuff away to people that would make good use of it Well sure, people could quit and have a higher skil point character. But they cant train it in conjunction with their main. And if they really wanted those few extra points so bad, they are already available for sale legitimately from the character sellers here. So essentially, what you dont want to happen is already possible. Carebear ûnoun 1. An EVE pilot who has evolved further than a dog chasing its tail.

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