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ghost st
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Posted - 2008.05.30 01:25:00 -
[1]
Why does eve still have a daily dt, instead of a weekly, or bi-weekly dt? Is it because too many game functions require dt? Or is these some underlying problem with the code that makes a daily dt necessary?
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Kaysai
The Golden Goat
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Posted - 2008.05.30 01:31:00 -
[2]
SEARCH ENGINE
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Sarkkon
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Posted - 2008.05.30 01:33:00 -
[3]
with a daily downtime you get an hour daily to shower and shave.
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Amastat
Omegatech
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Posted - 2008.05.30 01:43:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Amastat on 30/05/2008 01:45:53
Last I checked most MMORPG's had daily downtimes. It's usually the poor quality or small/free MMORPGS that have only a weekly dt.
EVE has no shards and running off the most powerful gaming server in the world. Anyone who has played the game long enough knows how complex the demographics are, how many people are on at once, and how many things go on at the same time on the game.
If a gaming server was a ship and your the engineer, a WoW server would be like a tugboat, except there is tons of them, whereas EVE Online server is like a battleship. CCP knows what they are doing and they engineered EVE very well and run this stuff off the best equipment out there, so that's why we don't have 2-hour dt's instead.
WoW has really tiny servers, a lot of them - but very tiny compared to EVE - yet they have to have a daily downtime still for all of them, and/or they often crash and break down; at least 1-2 of their servers always seem to be down due to technical problems.
That's why.
____________________
"All warfare is based on deception... we must seem unable...seem inactive...and crush him " - Sun Tzu |
Gridwalker
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Posted - 2008.05.30 01:46:00 -
[5]
I can't think of any MMO which doesn't have some sort of regular downtime, scheduled (or otherwise!). A lot of things could be happening during this time, from full backups of the database (not something that is easy to do with a live database) to clearly out various caches. It's probably a great time to do sanity checks on the database, performance tuning, and so on. The asteroid belts are repopulated, sovereignty is shuffled, and so on. Any sort of preventative hardware maintenance is ideally done during down times.
And if you don't buy any of that, well, do keep in mind that EVE runs on Microsoft SQL Server. ;-)
-Grid
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Shadow Joy
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Posted - 2008.05.30 01:54:00 -
[6]
Lag can be bad enough at the best of times. Imagine what it would be like if the databases were being backed up when you were in the middle of a fleet battle.
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Gigi Kent
Terradyne Networks
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Posted - 2008.05.30 01:59:00 -
[7]
tbh, i'm very surprised they only have 35-45 minutes of DT every day.
Its an amazing service CCP provides (even with all its drawbacks, lag ho ho ho)
Its still amazing and I <3 them for it.
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Sig do what now? |
Taedrin
Royal Hiigaran Navy
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Posted - 2008.05.30 02:12:00 -
[8]
CCP also uses daily d/t to process certain information that can only be processed when the servers are down, such as Sovereignty, Output construction, etc etc...
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Azounstone
Imperium Interstellar Space Corporation
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Posted - 2008.05.30 02:21:00 -
[9]
Gives me a chance to grab a snack too.
_____________________________________________
Imperium Interstellar Space Corporation - a Corporation for like minded older players
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Hanneshannes
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Posted - 2008.05.30 02:24:00 -
[10]
 Originally by: Sarkkon
with a daily downtime you get an hour daily to shower and shave.
Yeah, I mean one needs to wash before jumping back into a pod I guess lol.
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Surfin's PlunderBunny
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2008.05.30 03:48:00 -
[11]
CCP needs a second identical server... when they fixing one, they switch us over to the second and we never have DT! 
() ()
(â;..;)â
(")(") |
Space Runt
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Posted - 2008.05.30 04:43:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Surfin's PlunderBunny
CCP needs a second identical server... when they fixing one, they switch us over to the second and we never have DT!
you paying for it
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Darkwolf
The Older Gamers
R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2008.05.30 04:50:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Amastat
WoW has really tiny servers, a lot of them - but very tiny compared to EVE - yet they have to have a daily downtime still for all of them
Umm.. WOW has a once-per-week downtime. Admittedly it goes for longer, so the cumulative hours per week is probably the same.
What bugs the hell out of me is how EVE's downtime is always at the same time. 8:30pm to 9:30pm my local time. Smack bang in the middle of prime-time.
The joy.
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Jacob Mei
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Posted - 2008.05.30 05:34:00 -
[14]
It takes roughly one hour to feed all hampsters and replace the ones put on the death wheels, aka the Jita system.
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To borrow a phrase:
Players who post are like stars, there are bright ones and those who are dim.
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Sinnae Takeda
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Posted - 2008.05.30 06:03:00 -
[15]
can someone actually answer the question, please?
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Jacob Mei
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Posted - 2008.05.30 06:07:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Sinnae Takeda
can someone actually answer the question, please?
Daily downtime allows for the servers to be reset, data effectively backed up incase of the disasterous need of a roll back, and so forth.
I think someone said on these forums there is also a icelandic law that requires all machines to be powered down for at least one hour a day as some sort of labor law. Though truth be told I dont know if thats actually true.
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To borrow a phrase:
Players who post are like stars, there are bright ones and those who are dim.
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DaReaper
Net 7
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2008.05.30 06:10:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Surfin's PlunderBunny
CCP needs a second identical server... when they fixing one, they switch us over to the second and we never have DT!
you would still have DT, as it;s not really wise to do a backup or a mirrior form one server to the other while both are live. And if you don;t mirrior the info then went TQ1 goes down and you jump on TQ2 instead of being able to fly your BS you can now only fly cruisers
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Clinically
ANZAC ALLIANCE
Southern Cross Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.30 07:16:00 -
[18]
DT exists to annoy Australians.
________________
Originally by: Evil Thug
I wear pink panties.
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Riho
Mercenary Forces
Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.30 07:20:00 -
[19]
Originally by: ghost st
Why does eve still have a daily dt, instead of a weekly, or bi-weekly dt? Is it because too many game functions require dt? Or is these some underlying problem with the code that makes a daily dt necessary?
biggest one server game in the world... if u havent worked or seen any cluster farms then you probably dont get it... the server doesnt run on one PC... it runs on 100s of servers made into clusters... running those requires more downtime and checks that other MMO servers as they are 10x or even more smaller scale
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Yes... this is my main.
Extreme Troll Slayer...
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Helix Fluxx
Contempo Enterprises
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Posted - 2008.05.30 07:21:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Sinnae Takeda
can someone actually answer the question, please?
Essentially, for exactly the same reason London Underground can't run 24/7. It's to allow for the Engineering tasks that can't be done during uptime to be carried out in a safe and manageable way without affecting the live system or it's users.
With the Eve Servers it's a reboot, database handling and management, freeing up of memory loops, clearing down logfiles, running diagnostics and to be able to change out smaller pieces of hardware which may have failed during the course of the uptime.
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Lord Fitz
Antares Fleet Yards
SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.30 07:28:00 -
[21]
Things like ore respawning, soverignty calculations, outpost deployments and a heap of other calculations and updates occur during downtime.
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Zaphod Jones
Shining Horses
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Posted - 2008.05.30 11:32:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Darkwolf
...
What bugs the hell out of me is how EVE's downtime is always at the same time. 8:30pm to 9:30pm my local time. Smack bang in the middle of prime-time.
The joy.
if you were a dedicated eve player you'd move ! 
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Danzig256k
Mortal Devastating Kin
Black Sun Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.30 11:43:00 -
[23]
beats the 8 hour DT's i hear WoW has
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Heroldyn
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Posted - 2008.05.30 12:06:00 -
[24]
we have the daily downtime, so that all the devs can login unseen and
repair damaged bob structures.
/me hides
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RaTTuS
BIG
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Posted - 2008.05.30 12:13:00 -
[25]
ask PrismX for lots of details,
but I susspect a lot of db stuff happens then, cleanups of data, stuff really getting deleted etc..
also broken nodes are re-added to the cluster hot fixes for code etc...
lots of stuff..
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BIG Lottery, BIG Deal, InEve
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MADISSON
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Posted - 2008.05.30 12:13:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Jacob Mei
Originally by: Sinnae Takeda
can someone actually answer the question, please?
Daily downtime allows for the servers to be reset, data effectively backed up incase of the disasterous need of a roll back, and so forth.
I think someone said on these forums there is also a icelandic law that requires all machines to be powered down for at least one hour a day as some sort of labor law. Though truth be told I dont know if thats actually true.
As fare as i remember servers are in London....remembering incident when game crashed due to break in into location....?
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RaTTuS
BIG
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Posted - 2008.05.30 12:16:00 -
[27]
servers are in London - no they never got broken into - and if you've seen the DC then you'd know why,
there is no Icelandic law saying servers have to go down /where do people get this stuff from ...
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BIG Lottery, BIG Deal, InEve
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Wild Rho
GoonFleet
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Posted - 2008.05.30 12:34:00 -
[28]
It gives players the chance to grab some food, a shower and maybe a quick nap.
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beor oranes
Black Water.
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Posted - 2008.05.30 12:35:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Gridwalker
It's probably a great time to do sanity checks on the staff, buying more beer, and so on.
-Grid
Fixed that for you...
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Either pick a dry year when fighting wars or civilize the moronic races and have no wars at all! |
Taikun
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Posted - 2008.05.30 13:41:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Clinically
DT exists to annoy Australians.
Tis a boon for avoiding gate camps. I consider it an advantage at times.
Taikun
A criminal is a person with predatory instincts who has not sufficient capital to form a corporation. |
Shadowsword
COLSUP
Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2008.05.30 13:49:00 -
[31]
We have daily downime because Chribba like his veldspar fresh. 
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Adonis 4174
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Posted - 2008.05.30 13:50:00 -
[32]
To keep things running at an acceptable speed, nothing is deleted during the day, destroyed items (billions of them) are marked for deletion and actually deleted at downtime.
Just one of the many things. Didn't anybody bookmark the dev response which goes into detail?
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Infiniband can do more than just prevent lag |
Todd Doughnut
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Posted - 2008.05.30 14:31:00 -
[33]
Read the Langoliers 
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CCP Lingorm
C C P
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Posted - 2008.05.30 14:44:00 -
[34]
Everyday
Sovereignty Checks and changes
Outpost Upgrades and extensions
Summary statistics reports
Asteroid/Ice Reseeding
All proxy and Sol server node processes (not machines) are restarted to clear caches and memory.
These other tasks are run but not everyday (run on different days)
Database Index rebuilds
Graveyard cleaning (removal of destroyed items)
Partial backups of parts of the Database (A full backup takes longer than 1 hour)
Sometimes server reboots.
Other SQL task
CCP Lingorm
CCP Quality Assurance
QA Engineering Team Leader
Originally by: Lord Fitz
Eve is to WoW as Wow is to an 8 player game of Unreal Tournament.
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Jacob Mei
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Posted - 2008.05.30 15:27:00 -
[35]
Originally by: RaTTuS
there is no Icelandic law saying servers have to go down /where do people get this stuff from ...
Like I said I didnt know if it was true or not but that I had read it on these forums... damn wheres the shrug emote.
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To borrow a phrase:
Players who post are like stars, there are bright ones and those who are dim.
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Sinnae Takeda
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Posted - 2008.05.30 18:09:00 -
[36]
many thanks for the informative replies!
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Asestorian
Domination.
Souls of Vengeance
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Posted - 2008.05.30 18:25:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Jacob Mei
Originally by: RaTTuS
there is no Icelandic law saying servers have to go down /where do people get this stuff from ...
Like I said I didnt know if it was true or not but that I had read it on these forums... damn wheres the shrug emote.
The servers are in London anyway 
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Quote:
EVE is unfair by design.
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MarleWH
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Posted - 2008.05.30 18:35:00 -
[38]
It is at 5am for me, so I didn't even know it existed until a few months ago.
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Matthew
BloodStar Technologies
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Posted - 2008.05.30 19:09:00 -
[39]
Originally by: RaTTuS
servers are in London - no they never got broken into - and if you've seen the DC then you'd know why,
The eve servers didn't get broken into, no. But I do remember some connectivity issues associated with a theft from one of the London routing centers.
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There is no magic Wand of Fixing, and it is not powered by forum whines. |
Mioelnir
KULT Production
Atrum Tempestas Foedus
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Posted - 2008.05.30 19:51:00 -
[40]
Originally by: CCP Lingorm
Everyday
Sovereignty Checks and changes
Outpost Upgrades and extensions
Summary statistics reports
Asteroid/Ice Reseeding
All proxy and Sol server node processes (not machines) are restarted to clear caches and memory.
These other tasks are run but not everyday (run on different days)
Database Index rebuilds
Graveyard cleaning (removal of destroyed items)
Partial backups of parts of the Database (A full backup takes longer than 1 hour)
Sometimes server reboots.
Other SQL task
You forgot the part about CCP John Proctor visiting every system and collecting all the corpses. Can't find the posting in which he confessed though 
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ceyriot
Induseng Enterprises
R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2008.05.30 21:45:00 -
[41]
Originally by: ghost st
Why does eve still have a daily dt, instead of a weekly, or bi-weekly dt? Is it because too many game functions require dt? Or is these some underlying problem with the code that makes a daily dt necessary?
Well, usually, its to let the players some sleep a day - Or to shower, change your clothes or whatever...
But seriously, the server needs some time to rest, as there isn't multiple ones, so the wear & tear is pretty intense.
Faction Store - Killboard |
Siigari Kitawa
The Aduro Protocol
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Posted - 2008.05.30 21:47:00 -
[42]
Downtime happens daily because CCP decided with the nature of needing to check up on things such as POSes and warbills etc in EVE, they figured it would be better to have a daily hour rather than a weekly chunk of 5 or 6 hours at a time.
www.siigarikitawa.com |
searess
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Posted - 2008.05.30 21:56:00 -
[43]
Knowning how long it takes to shutdown and reboot just 1 full blade enclosure I can see why CCP dont actually reboot the whole lot. it would take them the best part of an hour just to shutdown and restart all of the blades , Then you have all the full sized servers which generally take longer due to the post - scsi boot - os boot - database startup ,
Hijackzorzzzz
Sig removed, lacks Eve-related content. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Cortes |
Kola XXX
Black Eclipse Corp
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.05.30 23:54:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Heroldyn
we have the daily downtime, so that all the devs can login unseen and
repair damaged bob structures.
/me hides
ding ding ding ... winner
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mcSpeedfreak
Draconis Cooperation
Southern Cross Alliance
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Posted - 2008.06.01 21:05:00 -
[45]
cause you pay for it you have the right to play on a well maintained server.
...well... as well as the hardware allows.
HELP my monitor isnt working is it turned on? Yes.. ok can you turn it off? Oh thanks .. that did it.. - based on a true story |
Mattikus
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2008.06.01 21:22:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Amastat
Edited by: Amastat on 30/05/2008 01:45:53
Last I checked most MMORPG's had daily downtimes. It's usually the poor quality or small/free MMORPGS that have only a weekly dt.
EVE has no shards and running off the most powerful gaming server in the world. Anyone who has played the game long enough knows how complex the demographics are, how many people are on at once, and how many things go on at the same time on the game.
If a gaming server was a ship and your the engineer, a WoW server would be like a tugboat, except there is tons of them, whereas EVE Online server is like a battleship. CCP knows what they are doing and they engineered EVE very well and run this stuff off the best equipment out there, so that's why we don't have 2-hour dt's instead.
WoW has really tiny servers, a lot of them - but very tiny compared to EVE - yet they have to have a daily downtime still for all of them, and/or they often crash and break down; at least 1-2 of their servers always seem to be down due to technical problems.
That's why.
I wouldnt say eve is a battleship...I would say much larger...on the scale of aircraft carrier.
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Sahriah BloodStone
Underworld Protection Agency
The Crimson Federation
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Posted - 2008.06.01 21:37:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Clinically
DT exists to annoy Australians.
Haha its from 9-10pm for me in Auzzie land, just makes me go to bed so i get ample sleep for school the next day. Although it does say something if i time my sleeping pattern for when EvE goes to sleep :D
DT is good, take the time to eat/shower/get outside (lol)
Sahriah Bloodstone
Pilot of The Crimson Federation
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Mika Meroko
Crayon Posting Inc
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Posted - 2008.06.02 00:46:00 -
[48]
To prevent any EVE related RL deaths...
you know, force the addicts to... eat.. and drink.. and maybe nap abit..
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Sniper Wolf18
Apocalypse Ponies
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Posted - 2008.06.02 01:12:00 -
[49]
we have daily DT because hourly DT would just be stupid.
NEXT PLEASE!
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Tiirae
The New Era
HUZZAH FEDERATION
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Posted - 2008.06.02 05:36:00 -
[50]
Funny, nobody has actually stated WHY the DT needs to be every day instead of every 3rd day or once a week.
Two reasons:
1. The server code is complex and it's likely that after a certain amount of time the memory is highly fragmented and poorly utilised. Some memory leaks will be created and some threads will probably not be properly killed. Resetting the processes on the server, if not rebooting them completely, will clear all this up and prevent performance from degrading too obviously. Linghorn does mention this in his post, where he talks about clearing caches etc.
2. The practise of rebooting every night leads to a level of robustness in the startup procedures and makes trouble shooting restarts much easer. If the system doesn't restart cleanly, you only have 24 hrs since the last good restart so it's a lot easier to diagnose issues than if it had been 168 hours since the last reboot.
The 24 hour interval is obviously where CCP feels comfortable, I expect if the code & architecture was more robust they could leave it longer. The fact that there are additional maintenance tasks done during downtime is most likely an artifact that has resulted from the downtimes existing in the first place. There are ways to do these things while the system is live, but they've never had to do it because the daily DT has, and always will be, a fact of life.
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Mara Rinn
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Posted - 2008.06.02 05:47:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Clinically
DT exists to annoy Australians.
My favourite :) Followed closely by Langoliers, and the one about forcing addicts to go have a shower and eat!
All that junk about cleaning up memory, database maintenance and replacing broken hardware are red herrings, IMHO ;)
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Heinkel facility
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Posted - 2008.06.02 07:16:00 -
[52]
DT?
You guys talk about that thing that's allways going on at 4:00 in the morning?
Living on Pacific Coast FTW :D
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Malcanis
R.E.C.O.N.
Insurgency
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Posted - 2008.06.02 07:19:00 -
[53]
Originally by: ghost st
Why does eve still have a daily dt, instead of a weekly, or bi-weekly dt? Is it because too many game functions require dt? Or is these some underlying problem with the code that makes a daily dt necessary?
Because you touch yourself at night. Stop it at once!
CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that. |
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