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craygan
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Posted - 2008.05.30 08:14:00 -
[1]
training time should be reduced to bring it inline withe the rest of the dreds..
why.. naglfar is a split weapon ship, thus means you need torps V and large projectile V.....
every other race only needs 1.
in the time it takes to train trops V on top of large projectile V I could almost of tranied another race to battleship V.
reducing the training time would mean that if 2 people maxed out dred skills to V they would finish at the same time. remember, you would also need capital projectile V and citadel torps V making it even longer..
did i also mention worst dred....(longest training time wtf)
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Riho
Mercenary Forces Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.30 13:48:00 -
[2]
if u say the minni dread is the worst.. u fail
its the best pos ganker out there tbh :D 4 weapons instead of 3 ---------------------------------- Yes... this is my main. Extreme Troll Slayer...
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Ecky X
Universal Securities
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Posted - 2008.05.30 14:45:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Ecky X on 30/05/2008 14:55:30 Oddly enough, those 4 weapons do about the same DPS as any other dread's 3. Nag has one fewer mid/low than the other dreads to accommodate that extra gun, too.
I don't profess to be an expert on dreads; the paper-numbers look a tad below the others - but it's by no means a black sheep.
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Nariana Verex
Oberon Incorporated Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2008.05.30 19:15:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Riho if u say the minni dread is the worst.. u fail
its the best pos ganker out there tbh :D Its vertically aligned.
I fixed it for you. ;)
Do the right thing. Don't leave shuttles in space. |
Amy Wang
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Posted - 2008.05.30 23:58:00 -
[5]
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Veldya
Guristari Freedom Fighters
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Posted - 2008.06.01 10:28:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Veldya on 01/06/2008 10:30:43 I wouldn't change the ship skill, I'd modify the ship itself, it is the worst of the Dreads. I'd get rid of the launchers and the launcher bonus and change it's config to 3 turrets and add in a projectile damage bonus. Might need to adjust the rof bonus so it's damage output in in the ballpark of the other Dreads.
A dual weapon platform dread should really only be an option when you have access to more than one Dread.
As it is, the Revelation is hands down the best Dread in the game. There isn't a lot of balance across the board. Thankfully it is fairly trivial to go from one race dread to another.
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Anarkia Evangel
Slacker Industries
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Posted - 2008.06.01 15:04:00 -
[7]
This is Minmatar.
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My'kel An'jelo
Viziam
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Posted - 2008.06.01 19:31:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Veldya Thankfully it is fairly trivial to go from one race dread to another.
100% agree. All you have to do is train another BS V, another large weapon to V and another 100mil or so skill. Trivial, huh?
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Imaos
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Posted - 2008.06.02 06:52:00 -
[9]
Originally by: craygan training time should be reduced to bring it inline withe the rest of the dreds..
Too late. What would you give the pilots who already have trained that skill and now loose points because the skill has a lower SP value?
How do you redeem them?
-> You can't retroactive change a training multiplier. You can only change prerequisites.
Imaos ------------------------------------------
Originally by: NoNah
My friend, this is EVE, as it's a space oriented game, they couldn't have trolls. We have Caldari. |
craygan
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Posted - 2008.06.02 15:03:00 -
[10]
Quote:
Too late. What would you give the pilots who already have trained that skill and now loose points because the skill has a lower SP value?
How do you redeem them?
I see your point, but how many people would actually have minmatar derd lvl V. I may be wrong but i cant see it being that many?
Anyone with lvl IV complete could be half way to lvl V if the skill was adjusted.
as for people with lvl V would not know what to do... but remember the game is always changing, some skill are no longer required, if a long term player has these then the same applies as he\she has trained a skill no longer used.
not to mension at some point new charaters to eve had a skill point buff, you could argue wether this was fair...
at the end of the day no matter what changes people suggest, there will always be someone that will not agree..
in my opinion the ship is fine, changeing the fit will just make it like the others and i cant see how prerequisites would make that much difference it terms of training?
what prerequisites would you change that would prevent mini dred from taking 30 more days than the other races?
changing the dred skill time is simple, ok you may pee off a few dedicated mini pilots, but if you change the fit to 3 guns they will have still wasted 30 days of torps V as they wont need it any more..
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Washell Olivaw
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Posted - 2008.06.02 16:05:00 -
[11]
Wouldn't people have torps and/or large projectile already trained to V for the T2 battleship weapons? So does it actually qualify as dread training time?
Originally by: Signature Everybody has a photographic memory, some people just don't have film.
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Imaos
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Posted - 2008.06.02 16:11:00 -
[12]
Originally by: craygan
changing the dred skill time is simple, ok you may pee off a few dedicated mini pilots, but if you change the fit to 3 guns they will have still wasted 30 days of torps V as they wont need it any more..
Torps V has a use. You arent always in the dread... Also removing sp is far harder than granting newbies a higher starting sp base.
Imaos ------------------------------------------
Originally by: NoNah
My friend, this is EVE, as it's a space oriented game, they couldn't have trolls. We have Caldari. |
Ruah Piskonit
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
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Posted - 2008.06.04 00:33:00 -
[13]
Revelation does 72% more dps then the Nag, the Moros has the 2nd highest DPS because sentery drones are fantastic. So the Nag has the worst tank and the worst DPS. . .so ya. .. its terrible. Reduce the training time? No. . . ----
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Ecky X
Universal Securities
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Posted - 2008.06.04 00:56:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Ruah Piskonit Revelation does 72% more dps then the Nag, the Moros has the 2nd highest DPS because sentery drones are fantastic. So the Nag has the worst tank and the worst DPS. . .so ya. .. its terrible. Reduce the training time? No. . .
I know this is not the forum for discussing this, but I'd be curious to see what kind of fit you're using on your Rev.
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The Nag is like the Typhoon in that it doesn't get nearly as much out of damage mods, and that it isn't nearly as capacitor intensive as other races' ships.
However, unlike the Phoon, it doesn't deal above-average damage with its split weapons.
Eh, I would be the last to complain if CCP buffed it, but methinks that perhaps Capital Autocannons might need looking at, instead.
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Ashmira
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Posted - 2008.06.04 01:16:00 -
[15]
Aggreed.
But then, to rectify another injustice, some caldari might advocate that we should also modify all other races cruiser skill, since to counter the minmatar ones, the only choice any other race has is to train minmatar, too.
No wait, didnt I have to train jammers for the scorpion? Hybrids for the rokh? Missiles for the raven? Hay, dont amarr only have large beams to train?
In the end it all comes down to seeing the glass half empty or half full; The naglfar is still the only dread that can fire out to 250km with capless weapons, even if with only half of them. |
Elektrea
SniggWaffe
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Posted - 2008.06.04 03:47:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Riho if u say the minni dread is the worst.. u fail
its the best pos ganker out there tbh :D 4 weapons instead of 3
uhhh, worst tank?
Happy HOur Minning and Industry
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craygan
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Posted - 2008.06.04 07:47:00 -
[17]
ok so torps will have there uses, lets change the fit to 3 xl projectile and bonuses of rof and falloff.
the point of the thred was to make it an even training time from one race to another.
you may have torps V and large porjectile V but at the end of the day you still need these skills to fly a mini dred to its full potential, unless you know a way of fitting 2 xl cannons and 2 citadel torps without them?
you need them both, therefore they affect how long it would take for you to be able to fly at its full potential, hence training time is longer.
lets say i had large projtile IV, trops IV and mini bs V..
i train torps V and caldari BS V, frigate IV, cruiser aswell, say 50 days give or take
i would be able to fly all caldari tech 1 ships in the time it would take me to get in my naglfar (large projectile V and torps V = 40+ days).
on top of that in order to get full damage i would need both XL projectiles and citidal trops V.
Are torps and large projectile dred training time.. i would say "no" but who in the right mind would fly a capital ship without a full fit?
if 2 people have same skill points or say started at the same time and both aimed to fly a dred they wouldnt pick minmatar as it takes longer...
remembering the whole point of the thred..."equal training time".
Is training time equal.. in my eyes it isnt?
new suggestion are welcome. |
Imaos
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Posted - 2008.06.04 14:14:00 -
[18]
Originally by: craygan
remembering the whole point of the thred..."equal training time".
Is training time equal.. in my eyes it isnt?
new suggestion are welcome.
I suggest you get rid of your idea of equal training time. The training time to jump into the ships is balanced, but in most ship classes there are racial differences how long it takes to fly a ship to its potential.
Imaos ------------------------------------------
Originally by: NoNah
My friend, this is EVE, as it's a space oriented game, they couldn't have trolls. We have Caldari. |
Karanth
Eve's Brothers of Destiny FOUNDATI0N
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Posted - 2008.06.05 06:44:00 -
[19]
Originally by: My'kel An'jelo
Originally by: Veldya Thankfully it is fairly trivial to go from one race dread to another.
100% agree. All you have to do is train another BS V, another large weapon to V and another 100mil or so skill. Trivial, huh?
How much does a Dread cost? Compared to the cost of keeping yourself in Dreads, it's fairly trivial.
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Stork DK
Synthetic Frontiers
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Posted - 2008.06.06 11:47:00 -
[20]
Its vertical aka. awesome
And tbh minnie was always the skill intensive race. ___________
- Stork DK |
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Kirra Liu
H O R I Z O N
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Posted - 2008.06.08 04:37:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Stork DK Its vertical aka. awesome
And tbh minnie was always the skill intensive race.
Totally agree. I had a minnie character for a while and he was very skill intensive to be really good at what he did. If you are in the position of training up for the dreadnought then surely you would have looked and weighed up the pro's and con's of the ships of that class to decide what you will be aiming for. Yeah it isn't as good as other dreadnoughts but then again there are other ship classes where the minmatar ships shine and others fail.
Why does there allways have to be a perfect balance with ships and such. If you choose to go the long haul and train for the minmatar dread then do so and dont complain about it, you could have allways chose to fly the Phoenix instead.
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