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is ccp gonna improve insurance payoff for T2 ships soon

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Moony Taikonaut State War Academy	Posted - 2008.06.01 12:37:00 - [1] well is it?
NoNah	Posted - 2008.06.01 12:38:00 - [2] If they hear the plea of your average not so clueless pilot, they will remove the insurance system from t1 ships soon. Parrots, commence! Postcount: 464524
Anubis Xian Reavers	Posted - 2008.06.01 12:40:00 - [3] The only improvement that can be done to insurance is to remove it entirely. Originally by: CCP Oveur The client handles no logic, it is simply a dumb terminal. I'm the Juggernaut, *****!
Captain Falcord The Python Cartel	Posted - 2008.06.01 12:45:00 - [4] Originally by: Anubis Xian The only improvement that can be done to insurance is to remove it entirely. That's plain stupid. That would discourage newbies to try PVP even more. The only thing that keeps me and my friends PVPING is being able to recover from our last rupture loss thanks to the insurance.
Megan Maynard Out of Order	Posted - 2008.06.01 13:03:00 - [5] Yeah, removing insurance would be a bad move...... Improving t2 insurance is BADLY needed. Why the hell wouldn't I pay more and get more for my expensive ass t2 ship? Curse=AAAAANNNNNDDDDMYCAPIZGONE Rapier=WELPI'MNOTMAKINGIT2DAGATE Arazu=WTF??I'MTRYINGTOWARPANDI'MNOT!?!?!?! Falcon=FRAKA
Grarr Dexx Naval Protection Corp	Posted - 2008.06.01 13:11:00 - [6] Insurance is calculated off the base price of the ships in CCP's database. The reason why it's so low VS the market price is because the players will it to sell so expensively. If there's someone you have to whine to, it's the players, not CCP.
mentalmonkey	Posted - 2008.06.01 13:17:00 - [7] I thought this goes against the whole point of T2 ships, loosing one is supposed to hurt. Not everyone is suppsoed to be flying these, they are supposed to be special. With FW comming out giving T2 insurance payout would mean vets flying T2 not giving new PVPers a chance, at least this way people will think before jumping into hacs if its likely they are going to asplode. Appart from that insurance is inline with the mineral market, if T2 began to get full insurance it would turn the T2 market into another mineral market (well near enough - it would give them a base price)
Sedai Hara The Forsakened Companions Pure.	Posted - 2008.06.01 13:31:00 - [8] Make insurance playeroperated? Could be made possible, maybe wide-open for scams but still.. if the game developes this is a good change. As it is now the insurance really sets a minimum for ship-prices, which isn't ideal tbh. ----------------------------- Originally by: Ozzie Asrail A mega without 3 magstabs fitted is like kladdkaka without chocolate.
Nomakai Delateriel Shadow Company Souls of Vengeance	Posted - 2008.06.01 13:35:00 - [9] 1. Insurance is an incentive to fly T1. 2. Out in 0.0 you still see a whole lot of T2 ships. Conclusion: Why on earth should they increase the insurance on T2 ships? Given the introduction of the Tier 2 Battlecruisers and the fact that T2 battleships aren't replacing T1s for PvP it's obvious that EVE wasn't meant to be a game where once you can use T2 ships&gear you never use a T1 item ever again. T2 present advantages, but they do so at a price. A part of that price is that T2 ships cost more to buy and they cost more to lose. ______________________________________________ -You can never earn my respect, only lose it. It's given freely, and only grudgingly retracted when necessary.
Anubis Xian Reavers	Posted - 2008.06.01 13:41:00 - [10] Eve is all about the loss associated with risk. Insurance goes against both Eve's design and common sense...who in their right mind would payout money to someone who loses assets intentionally put in a risky situation. Originally by: CCP Oveur The client handles no logic, it is simply a dumb terminal. I'm the Juggernaut, *****!
Sokratesz Rionnag Alba	Posted - 2008.06.01 13:50:00 - [11] If anything, insurance needs a nerf. Make battleships expensive again. I refuse to respect religious beliefs, and i refuse to respect people who hold them.
Raging Knight Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2008.06.01 13:58:00 - [12] How about we just remove insurance all together We could make a lake in jita with all the carebear tears \o/
Sokratesz Rionnag Alba	Posted - 2008.06.01 14:03:00 - [13] Originally by: Raging Knight How about we just remove insurance all together We could make a lake in jita with all the carebear tears \o/ It would be super-awesome, and some sort of brake on the amount of ISK entering the game that way. I refuse to respect religious beliefs, and i refuse to respect people who hold them.
Kis Kecheri School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2008.06.01 14:07:00 - [14] Edited by: Kis Kecheri on 01/06/2008 14:08:54 Originally by: Raging Knight How about we just remove insurance all together We could make a lake in jita with all the carebear tears \o/ Hmm, I see. Quote: It would be super-awesome, and some sort of brake on the amount of ISK entering the game that way. Why would you want to do that?
Nomakai Delateriel Shadow Company Souls of Vengeance	Posted - 2008.06.01 14:15:00 - [15] Originally by: Kis Kecheri Why would you want to do that? Might be nostalgia from the really really (really) early days where cruisers PvP was the norm and battleships were a rare and awesome sight, T2 didn't exist yet and capitals were just fiction. ______________________________________________ -You can never earn my respect, only lose it. It's given freely, and only grudgingly retracted when necessary.
NoNah	Posted - 2008.06.01 14:20:00 - [16] Originally by: Kis Kecheri Edited by: Kis Kecheri on 01/06/2008 14:08:54 Originally by: Raging Knight How about we just remove insurance all together We could make a lake in jita with all the carebear tears \o/ Hmm, I see. Quote: It would be super-awesome, and some sort of brake on the amount of ISK entering the game that way. Why would you want to do that? Inflation. Insurance somewhat removes the role of the lower tier tech one ships. There's virtually no rational reason to fly a frigate today. Ignorance or lack of knowledge sure - but other than that there's almost always better tools. (From a purely mathematical approach, psychology always comes into play aswell ofc). Also, today a battleship is cheap enough to replace to throw them away at anything. A geddon fitted with t1 modules is what, 5-10 mil to replace? And you make 3 times that with highsec missions per hour without breaking a sweat? This means you can use them to suicide gank, or bait, or anything you want far to easily. There's supposed to be loss in the game, but when the supposedly most heavy ship you can fly takes 15 minutes to compensate for.... Parrots, commence! Postcount: 226144
Wet Ferret	Posted - 2008.06.01 14:21:00 - [17] Originally by: Raging Knight How about we just remove insurance all together We could make a lake in jita with all the carebear tears \o/ Right.. because carebears are out there PvPing everyday and losing ships. Removal of insurance is way up there on the list of really stupid ideas that CCP will never, ever implement (not without some other serious changes involved, anyway). But, yeah. These forums seriously need some indicator that the post has ended and the sig has started.
Kis Kecheri School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2008.06.01 14:23:00 - [18] Edited by: Kis Kecheri on 01/06/2008 14:24:10 Edited by: Kis Kecheri on 01/06/2008 14:23:42 Originally by: NoNah Inflation. What makes you think Inflation is currently a problem in EvE?
Megan Maynard Out of Order	Posted - 2008.06.01 14:24:00 - [19] Originally by: Grarr Dexx Insurance is calculated off the base price of the ships in CCP's database. The reason why it's so low VS the market price is because the players will it to sell so expensively. If there's someone you have to whine to, it's the players, not CCP. FALSE. Curse=AAAAANNNNNDDDDMYCAPIZGONE Rapier=WELPI'MNOTMAKINGIT2DAGATE Arazu=WTF??I'MTRYINGTOWARPANDI'MNOT!?!?!?! Falcon=FRAKA
NoNah	Posted - 2008.06.01 14:26:00 - [20] Originally by: Kis Kecheri Originally by: NoNah Inflation. What makes you think Inflation is a problem? The second part of the post. Since the market is not entirely player controlled, the parts which are not will have artificial caps on them. Such as insurance. It'd be an entirely different case if the insurance system was dynamic - but it's not, and it's nearly impossible to implement. Like som other poster pointed out, a battleship today is more disposable than a cruiser was. Hence it's rendered the lesser vessels more or less pointless. Getting a larger vessel today is in no way an economic achievement. Parrots, commence! Postcount: 361202
Kis Kecheri School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2008.06.01 14:28:00 - [21] Originally by: NoNah Originally by: Kis Kecheri Originally by: NoNah Inflation. What makes you think Inflation is a problem? The second part of the post. Since the market is not entirely player controlled, the parts which are not will have artificial caps on them. Such as insurance. It'd be an entirely different case if the insurance system was dynamic - but it's not, and it's nearly impossible to implement. Like som other poster pointed out, a battleship today is more disposable than a cruiser was. Hence it's rendered the lesser vessels more or less pointless. Getting a larger vessel today is in no way an economic achievement. Forgive me, but what exactly do you mean when you say "Inflation."
NoNah	Posted - 2008.06.01 14:40:00 - [22] Originally by: Kis Kecheri Forgive me, but what exactly do you mean when you say "Inflation." The loss of value in ISK. 50 mil today is a neglectable amount of isk. While some time ago, it was a huge amount. Insurance is a virtual cap providing an injection of isk, for each tier one battleship lost another 40 mil or so is direclty injected to the market. This means every single pilot gets richer and hence the choice is less dependant on cost. Making all fights consist of a larger portion of larger ships than it should be imho Being able to throw a handful of BS into a fight knowing that the insurance allows you to make up for it in less than an hour... is only due to insurance. Parrots, commence! Postcount: 722489
Kis Kecheri School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2008.06.01 14:44:00 - [23] Originally by: NoNah Originally by: Kis Kecheri Forgive me, but what exactly do you mean when you say "Inflation." The loss of value in ISK. 50 mil today is a neglectable amount of isk. While some time ago, it was a huge amount. Excuse me, but isn't the condition of being able to pay for items at a lower average cost then previous history a sign of deflation, not inflation? That would mean isk today has more purchasing power, not less?
Nomakai Delateriel Shadow Company Souls of Vengeance	Posted - 2008.06.01 14:46:00 - [24] Edited by: Nomakai Delateriel on 01/06/2008 14:50:49 Originally by: NoNah Being able to throw a handful of BS into a fight knowing that the insurance allows you to make up for it in less than an hour... is only due to insurance. Though to be fair, a T2 fitted BS will easily kill 2 or even 3 T1 fitted BS. And in a sniperfight you might as well not show up in a T1 BS unless it's an Apoc or Rokh. And losing a T2 fitted BS is still quite expensive. P.S: Actually Items today cost almost exactly the same amount of ISK to produce, but sales prices have dropped since T2 producers no longer have the same kind of profitmargins. However, what Nonah is saying is that 3-4 years ago it would have taken ages to get your hands on 50 mil (2 days, maybe 3?). Today it's merely a matter of running 3-5 Level 4 missions (and taking about 3-4 hours to do it). Although personally I think that's because people have more skills these days. 18 months ago I was a new and it took me weeks to get enough cash for my first battlecruiser (a prophecy). Today it could do it in 2 hours. Not because EVE has changed all that much, but because I got a lot more assets (battleships, HACs etc) and a lot more skills. ______________________________________________ -You can never earn my respect, only lose it. It's given freely, and only grudgingly retracted when necessary.
Feilamya Pelennor Swarm Souls of Vengeance	Posted - 2008.06.01 14:47:00 - [25] Insurance is not broken, so don't try to fix it.
Washell Olivaw	Posted - 2008.06.01 15:01:00 - [26] Originally by: Kis Kecheri Originally by: NoNah Originally by: Kis Kecheri Forgive me, but what exactly do you mean when you say "Inflation." The loss of value in ISK. 50 mil today is a neglectable amount of isk. While some time ago, it was a huge amount. Excuse me, but isn't the condition of being able to pay for items at a lower average cost then previous history a sign of deflation, not inflation? That would mean isk today has more purchasing power, not less? More and more ISK is entering the game which is a driving force for inflation. But at the same time we're still dealing with the after effects of invention, which caused prices on t2 gear to drop massively. Being able to buy more with the same amount of money is deflation. At the moment the economy is kind of hovering between the two and it's very hard to predict which one is going to get stronger. Originally by: Signature Everybody has a photographic memory, some people just don't have film.
NoNah	Posted - 2008.06.01 15:04:00 - [27] Originally by: Kis Kecheri Originally by: NoNah Originally by: Kis Kecheri Forgive me, but what exactly do you mean when you say "Inflation." The loss of value in ISK. 50 mil today is a neglectable amount of isk. While some time ago, it was a huge amount. Excuse me, but isn't the condition of being able to pay for items at a lower average cost then previous history a sign of deflation, not inflation? That would mean isk today has more purchasing power, not less? Very much so, however tech 1 ships can't be considered an index - basically because of insurance. My point is the combination of the two. Insurance as always been around, and always played a adecent role. However with the newer aditions to the game and the ever increasing amount of wealth(Partly because of insurance), you can head out your first day of game and make the isk needed to replace a battleship. Look at the more expensive parts, such as deadspace gear or unique ships. The price of a guardian-vexor today would be around 10-15b. A few years ago, this was only a fraction of the price. Gist shield boosters? Snake implants? They're all going up in price, even though the supply of the later does aswell. Parrots, commence! Postcount: 828761
Kis Kecheri School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2008.06.01 15:08:00 - [28] Originally by: Feilamya Insurance is not broken, so don't try to fix it. Disagree. Insurance isn't a problem because of inflation though. Insurance is a problem because it is extremely easy to abuse without consequences. It allows people to Self-Destruct T1 Battleships at cost or even at profit. It turns "Suicide Ganking" for rare/officer mods into "Subsidized Ganking" End of conversation.
Valandril Epic Fail Inc.	Posted - 2008.06.01 16:09:00 - [29] Edited by: Valandril on 01/06/2008 16:09:46 Originally by: Sokratesz If anything, insurance needs a nerf. Make battleships expensive again. Yes please, battleships should be expensive fleet warfare not roaming thingy. And nono for bigger payout on t2 ships, if u can't afford to loose it, don't fly it. ---
Pax Empyrean	Posted - 2008.06.01 16:14:00 - [30] Edited by: Pax Empyrean on 01/06/2008 16:15:11 Quote: More and more ISK is entering the game which is a driving force for inflation. But at the same time we're still dealing with the after effects of invention, which caused prices on t2 gear to drop massively. Being able to buy more with the same amount of money is deflation. At the moment the economy is kind of hovering between the two and it's very hard to predict which one is going to get stronger. This. However, there are a few definitions of inflation floating around out there. The mainstream definition looks at a price index for a more or less arbitrary basket of goods, while other definitions (such as the one favored by the Austrian school of economics) actually define inflation as an increase in the money supply, regardless of changes in any price index. The insurance system injects ISK into the economy, as do missions. As far as I can tell, the only way that ISK actually leaves the economy is through repair costs, insurance purchases that expire without a payout, and some of the LP purchases. I have no idea what the actual numbers are for each of those things, but I'd be willing to bet that the money supply in EVE is increasing. With the upcoming changes in FW the faction ships are supposed to get cheaper, right? If that's the case, then more people will fly them and (somewhat paradoxically) more ISK will leave the economy on faction ship purchases. I'd expect that to increase the purchasing power of ISK across the board as a result. The impact on prices relative to one another can't be precisely predicted, but that's markets for you. :)

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