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Ming Daizong
Mithraeum
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Posted - 2008.06.03 23:48:00 -
[61]
 Originally by: Amarr Citizen 155
Proof that this has happened before please.
Proof that it hasn't, please. That's a fairly obvious outcome of gathering the API Keys of traders (Especially when the legitimate reasons for doing so are vague and questionable, as pointed out by another person earlier in this thread).
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Amarr Citizen 155
Alternative Methods Research Group
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Posted - 2008.06.04 00:02:00 -
[62]
Edited by: Amarr Citizen 155 on 04/06/2008 00:05:01
Originally by: Ming Daizong
Originally by: Amarr Citizen 155
Proof that this has happened before please.
Proof that it hasn't, please. That's a fairly obvious outcome of gathering the API Keys of traders (Especially when the legitimate reasons for doing so are vague and questionable, as pointed out by another person earlier in this thread).
/me throws his hands in the air
THE SKY IS FALLING!!!!
Can you prove it isn't?
So you wouldn't even trust someone who we as a forum community trust to do the api audit? Then why the hell should we trust you with our isk? Honestly, the API key doesn't tell me enough about someone for me to know if i should trust them with my isk or not but your reasoning for not giving up your API key is flawed.
Also, how are the legitimate reasons for doing so questionable? A trusted 3rd party uses your API key to check and see that you can do what you say you can do, not to gather information in order to work against.
Example: I post here saying I have a rock solid trading method and have made a lot of isk. I provide my api key to a trusted third party and they check it to see if I have actually been doing or have done what I say I have. They post saying that it looks like I am telling the truth or that I am not telling the truth. We as investors then use that information as well as other information you provided us to decide whether we want to invest or not. It's really that simple. No one but the trusted 3rd party acually sees any of your api data.
Edit: spelling
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Why do it the hard way when you can do it the AMARR way. |
YouGotRipped
Ewigkeit
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Posted - 2008.06.04 00:10:00 -
[63]
Edited by: YouGotRipped on 04/06/2008 00:13:43
Originally by: Havok Pierce
Speaking as someone who'll still put ISK in this venture, I'm vaguely (but only vaguely [...]
Edited by: YouGotRipped on 04/06/2008 00:10:51
Originally by: Ming Daizong
(Especially when the legitimate reasons for doing so are vague and questionable [...]
Vague stuff indeed.
Motherships |
Ming Daizong
Mithraeum
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Posted - 2008.06.04 00:10:00 -
[64]
Edited by: Ming Daizong on 04/06/2008 00:21:08
Originally by: Amarr Citizen 155
So you wouldn't even trust someone who we as a forum community trust to do the api audit?
Trust the entirety of my operation to a rival trader? OF COURSE NOT.
Originally by: Amarr Citizen 155
Honestly, the API key doesn't tell me enough about someone for me to know if i should trust them with my isk or not but your reasoning for not giving up your API key is flawed.
Then why are you so obsessed with it? What are you getting out of it? Either invest or don't. You're not going to pressure me into giving the keys to the city away.
Originally by: Amarr Citizen 155
No one but the trusted 3rd party acually sees any of your api data.
I find it hilarious that while you are so quick to question my motives (I don't blame you for that, I might add, I play EVE, I've been scammed too) you are so quick to believe in the security of this information.
I'd rather be a successful trader than a failed charity.
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Tobin Shalim
Vulcan Foundry
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Posted - 2008.06.04 00:40:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Ming Daizong
Originally by: Amarr Citizen 155
Honestly, the API key doesn't tell me enough about someone for me to know if i should trust them with my isk or not but your reasoning for not giving up your API key is flawed.
Then why are you so obsessed with it? What are you getting out of it? Either invest or don't. You're not going to pressure me into giving the keys to the city away.
What we're getting out of it is a way for the auditor to track our isk, to ensure you're not just going to dump it to your main and give us the finger. What it is is security for us, a way for you to build up a reputation amongst the MD forum as someone that can be trusted with the isk that we invest. THAT is what we get out of it, is security, and YOU get a rep as being someone trustworthy.
And yes, we ARE going to question your motives because you are a new person here, which as the MD views people is "guilty until proven innocent". If someone comes here wanting to start up an IPO/business venture, they are viewed as scammers until they are proven trustworthy. Your fervent desire to not provide any kind of information that would show that you're not scamming us is not going to any lengths to show you as being trustworthy.
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Originally by: Haakkon
I feel a great deal of patriotism at being a part of Goonswarm. We've accomplished great things... we're just mainly jerks about it
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Ming Daizong
Mithraeum
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Posted - 2008.06.04 00:46:00 -
[66]
If you require complete transparency (which puts my venture at risk) to trust me, I do not want your investment. Simple as that. My IPO does not automatically make me your serf and I find that attitude disgusting. Invest or don't.
I've satisfactorily answered all real questions offered by potential investors. I'm not acting in a sly or untruthful manner. But I absolutely refuse to put my venture at risk to get investments from people who treat me like dog**** anyway.
Have a nice day.
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Tobin Shalim
Vulcan Foundry
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Posted - 2008.06.04 00:52:00 -
[67]
How exactly do you figure that by giving out the API key for auditing purposes that it's going to be a huge risk to your venture? I might add that there have been plenty of trading IPO's before you that have provided API keys for auditing and have suffered no ill effects as a result of doing so.
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Originally by: Haakkon
I feel a great deal of patriotism at being a part of Goonswarm. We've accomplished great things... we're just mainly jerks about it
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Nido Gentz
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Posted - 2008.06.04 01:08:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Tobin Shalim
How exactly do you figure that by giving out the API key for auditing purposes that it's going to be a huge risk to your venture? I might add that there have been plenty of trading IPO's before you that have provided API keys for auditing and have suffered no ill effects as a result of doing so.
THIS
Your reasons for not giving up your API key do not jive with the many successful traders who have given up their API keys to trusted third parties and not had their business bankrupted or affected. In this game we call Eve, there are not very many good mechanisms for investors to protect their precious isk and you are basically asking that we not use the one marginal tool (API) that we have to protect ourselves. While this is totally within your right, it does make it much more difficult to raise money.
Based on your responses thus far, it is fairly clear that we will not convince you to change your mind so potential investors just have to evaluate whether it is worth the much elevated risk level. But I would recommend that investors not just "gamble" with their money as it sets poor precedents and could lead to an increase in scammers coming to the MD forums. I am not sure whether this is a scam or not, but based on what is, in my opinion, an irrational stubborness to not give up the API key, I would be wary of investing.
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Amarr Citizen 155
Alternative Methods Research Group
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Posted - 2008.06.04 01:16:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Ming Daizong
Trust the entirety of my operation to a rival trader? OF COURSE NOT.
Contrary to what some people may think, not everyone on these forums is a trader.
Originally by: Ming Daizong
Then why are you so obsessed with it? What are you getting out of it? Either invest or don't. You're not going to pressure me into giving the keys to the city away.
I'm not so much obsessed with it as much as I am with you having a stupid reason for not wanting to give your api. Also, these are public forums and this is a public offering which gives me every right to provide as much scrutiny as I possibly can to make sure I as well as others don't invest in a scammer or in a crappy offering.
Originally by: Ming Daizong
I find it hilarious that while you are so quick to question my motives (I don't blame you for that, I might add, I play EVE, I've been scammed too) you are so quick to believe in the security of this information.
I'm not so quick to believe in the security of this information. I do, however, believe in the reputation of those that would do this API audit and trust them fully. They have proven they can be trusted with such information time and time again. That is the very thing you are trying to accomplish with this offering as you stated yourself. This small offering is to gain the trust of the MD community so that you can do a bigger IPO in the future. So the very thing you are striving to accomplish with this offering is the same thing you are questioning.
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Why do it the hard way when you can do it the AMARR way. |
Amarr Citizen 155
Alternative Methods Research Group
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Posted - 2008.06.04 01:19:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Ming Daizong
If you require complete transparency (which puts my venture at risk) to trust me, I do not want your investment. Simple as that. My IPO does not automatically make me your serf and I find that attitude disgusting. Invest or don't.
I've satisfactorily answered all real questions offered by potential investors. I'm not acting in a sly or untruthful manner. But I absolutely refuse to put my venture at risk to get investments from people who treat me like dog**** anyway.
Have a nice day.
You are confused. We don't require complete transparency. But we do ask for a high level of transparency considering this is a public offering and one of the biggest parts of a public offering is transparency.
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Why do it the hard way when you can do it the AMARR way. |
EBANK Ricdic
Eve-Tech Savings n Loans
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Posted - 2008.06.04 02:19:00 -
[71]
It's actually a good business plan. Start new characters, manicure them for 3 months (moving to 2-3 different corps) and then start a bond to get money to keep.
1 billion isk is a LOT of money to a 3 month old player
Those investing now as it's only a SMALL part of their wallet they can afford to lose, this is setting a bad precedent. Invest because YOU want to invest, not because you don't mind if you lose your isk.
The OP ignored my post about giving me the name of his main and has refused to co-operate with his shareholders. If he wants to do an IPO/Bond he has to understand that he is offering to run a PUBLIC venture and therefore some data needs to be forthcoming on his end. Thus far he has given a whole lot of excuses and zero content.
1/10 would be my rating on this.
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Ming Daizong
Mithraeum
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Posted - 2008.06.04 02:22:00 -
[72]
Edited by: Ming Daizong on 04/06/2008 02:24:11
Originally by: EBANK Ricdic
1 billion isk is a LOT of money to a 3 month old player
Good thing I started playing thirteen months ago, right?
It's absolutely hilarious that so many people are basing their opinions on misinformation. Whether it is intentional or not I can't be sure. If it IS intentional, the agenda is clear.
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Amarr Citizen 155
Alternative Methods Research Group
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Posted - 2008.06.04 02:36:00 -
[73]
yeah the agenda is clear.....what? what the hell are you talking about? what agenda?
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Why do it the hard way when you can do it the AMARR way. |
Havok Pierce
D00M.
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Posted - 2008.06.04 03:05:00 -
[74]
Originally by: EBANK Ricdic
Those investing now as it's only a SMALL part of their wallet they can afford to lose, this is setting a bad precedent. Invest because YOU want to invest, not because you don't mind if you lose your isk.
The OP ignored my post about giving me the name of his main and has refused to co-operate with his shareholders. If he wants to do an IPO/Bond he has to understand that he is offering to run a PUBLIC venture and therefore some data needs to be forthcoming on his end. Thus far he has given a whole lot of excuses and zero content.
1/10 would be my rating on this.
With all the badgering the OP is getting, I can see your request getting lost in the noise. Not that said badgering is unwarranted--prospective investors are usually quite nervous about the condition of their ISK.
My involvement is conditional at this point, however--I will withhold ISK transfer until the rest of your shares are spoken for (and that I know who spoke for them).
This is me covering myself for now, although I suspect that after this fireball you'll find yourself unwilling to head to the public again. The API key "verification" is a point where you will not go? Fine. Our resident floating head's suggestion is both sound (unless, of course, you do not trust him).
The days of shooting from the hip are long past, unfortunately, with regards to public ventures.
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
There's a Community petition category??
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Ming Daizong
Mithraeum
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Posted - 2008.06.04 03:23:00 -
[75]
Edited by: Ming Daizong on 04/06/2008 03:24:14
Originally by: Havok Pierce
I suspect that after this fireball you'll find yourself unwilling to head to the public again.
This is particularly true. I do fine on my own, I thought moving into the public realm would be an exciting new challenge. Well, its certainly been a challenge, but I never realized investors could be so contrary (Or that some couldn't do basic math).
At any rate, I would be willing to provide you with my PvP character's name, should you make assurances that it will remain 'secret' unless something untoward happens. (A little politeness goes a long way. My initial response to rudeness and asshattery, as some of these 'businesspeople' have presented, is generally a New York GFY, unfortunately)
Will this make anyone happy? Or is the angry mob too hard to stop at this point?
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cosmoray
Cosmoray Construction
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Posted - 2008.06.04 03:48:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Ming Daizong
Edited by: Ming Daizong on 04/06/2008 02:24:11
Originally by: EBANK Ricdic
1 billion isk is a LOT of money to a 3 month old player
Good thing I started playing thirteen months ago, right?
It's absolutely hilarious that so many people are basing their opinions on misinformation. Whether it is intentional or not I can't be sure. If it IS intentional, the agenda is clear.
I am going to try and help you here. I truly am. No drama bombs, even.
Problem 1
You want to raise money
Problem 2
In the past 6-12 months lots of people have scammed or large "seemingly" successful IPO's have failed or CEO has gone walkabout. This means that most investors are very nervous types.
It is very difficult to get these two issues together.
To raise money you have to convince people that you are not going to SCAM, and this follows some simple guidelines:
1. Have a good business plan
2. Have a reputation equal to the amount of money to be raised (negotiable)
3. Answer ALL questions
4. Answer ALL questions with intelligence and don't be 'surly'
5. If possible provide security (asset lockdown, collateral, audit)
If you follow these guidelines, people will give you money.
This will fail because you decided to engage people with hostility, and refused some basic checks that would have made up for your lack of reputation.
If in doubt take the moral high road!
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Segge Bolled
Rainy Day Industries
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Posted - 2008.06.04 03:52:00 -
[77]
I've been following this thread and though I've read everything up to where this post will be, there is only one particular thing I wish to comment on:
Originally by: Ming Daizong
I can't do any more than assure you I will not run off with your money.
Can't and won't are two different things. Contributors to Market Discussion have established how you can, but you've replied that you won't. Don't mistake the two.
While you seem to be (finally) leaning towards some kind of compromise with your potential investors (which I applaud) I'm afraid that your own somewhat confrontational response to the so-called "angry mob" has probably scared off quite a few potential investments already - those not already deterred by your refusal to submit to any API key auditing whatsoever.
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Havok Pierce
D00M.
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Posted - 2008.06.04 03:57:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Ming Daizong
Edit: Before anyone asks, no, it will remain private unless I scam. Aside from providing some of the same information I fear being leaked with my API Key, it will also lose me some business connections who are openly hostile to my PvP character.
Personally, I don't buy that contention (that you'd lose business connections if people were "openly hostile" to your PvP character). It's one of the reasons I've persisted in posting as, well, me. ISK is the stuff that builds bridges. This isn't CAOD--we only really care if you're capable of doing the job you claimed you would do, as well as trustworthy enough to actually put in for the haul. Mortal enemies (with a marked exception or two) aren't found here, usually people who disagree. You can trust someone like Ricdic or Shar Tegral with your API key--if they found they had a conflict of interest they wouldn't serve as auditor.
I'd audit you myself--I don't see myself as having a conflict of interest w.r.t. your business or your PvP character. Whether or not anyone else takes me at my word becomes a question then.
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
There's a Community petition category??
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Ming Daizong
Mithraeum
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Posted - 2008.06.04 04:00:00 -
[79]
Edited by: Ming Daizong on 04/06/2008 04:03:28
Originally by: Segge Bolled
While you seem to be (finally) leaning towards some kind of compromise with your potential investors (which I applaud) I'm afraid that your own somewhat confrontational response to the so-called "angry mob" has probably scared off quite a few potential investments already - those not already deterred by your refusal to submit to any API key auditing whatsoever.
I think it is only fair that one businessperson treats another with respect, as some have. I understand the scam worries and would have them myself if put in the position of an investor. The attitudes many people have are completely unwarranted though and I don't feel the need to bend over backwards to kiss these peoples butts. Some people will, good for them, I won't.
I'm willing to make people happy (That's what this Bond is all about) but, to be honest, I'm not willing to be shat on and treated like a serf. The only case I would want some of these peoples' money is if this WAS a scam.
That said, I'll let this continue a little longer, I would like the opportunity to make some of the more supportive people some ISK. I hope this turns out to be a success in the end.
P.S. Perhaps the reason there is so many scams is because some of you are so needy and rude. Its easier to walk away with a jackasses money than a real decent guy's. Think about it.
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Ming Daizong
Mithraeum
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Posted - 2008.06.04 04:02:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Havok Pierce
Personally, I don't buy that contention (that you'd lose business connections if people were "openly hostile" to your PvP character). It's one of the reasons I've persisted in posting as, well, me. ISK is the stuff that builds bridges. This isn't CAOD--we only really care if you're capable of doing the job you claimed you would do, as well as trustworthy enough to actually put in for the haul. Mortal enemies (with a marked exception or two) aren't found here, usually people who disagree. You can trust someone like Ricdic or Shar Tegral with your API key--if they found they had a conflict of interest they wouldn't serve as auditor.
I'd audit you myself--I don't see myself as having a conflict of interest w.r.t. your business or your PvP character. Whether or not anyone else takes me at my word becomes a question then.
The majority of my business connections that allow me to operate are with rival Corps, which are set -10 and vice versa. I don't operate in carebear hugtown, unfortunately, but I'm sure you understand that. 
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Tobin Shalim
Vulcan Foundry
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Posted - 2008.06.04 04:18:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Ming Daizong
I think it is only fair that one businessperson treats another with respect, as some have. I understand the scam worries and would have them myself if put in the position of an investor. The attitudes many people have are completely unwarranted though and I don't feel the need to bend over backwards to kiss these peoples butts. Some people will, good for them, I won't.
I'm willing to make people happy (That's what this Bond is all about) but, to be honest, I'm not willing to be shat on and treated like a serf. The only case I would want some of these peoples' money is if this WAS a scam.
That said, I'll let this continue a little longer, I would like the opportunity to make some of the more supportive people some ISK. I hope this turns out to be a success in the end.
P.S. Perhaps the reason there is so many scams is because some of you are so needy and rude. Its easier to walk away with a jackasses money than a real decent guy's. Think about it.
1. You have not been treating people with respect that have been questioning and pushing you to use the API key audit. In fact, you've been downright rude to them when they've been asking for what is a standard method accepted on this forum. You have in fact said that it's an "API scam" that you won't participate in. The attitudes are not unwarranted, read MD some and you'll come to realize this.
2. No, you're not willing to make people happy. Want to make them happy? Submit to the API audit and you'll find that it will make them so. It's not "shatting" on you, or making you out to be a serf. All they have been asking is for you to give out a way to audit your operation, which is no more than they ask of any new investor (and even some ones that do have history). The mere fact that you aren't willing to hold to any accountability whatsoever points to this being nothing more than a mere scam you're perpetuating and you think people are stupid enough to fall for it.
3. That said, I would HIGHLY ENCOURAGE ANY INVESTORS TO STAY AWAY FROM THIS PERSON. I would like the opportunity to save them their isk from a scammer.
P.S. Perhaps the reason why people scam is because they want to find stupid people that will give them their money no questions asked. It's because they're so needy and rude because it's easier to be a jackass and walk away with their money than to be a real decent guy. Think about THAT.
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Originally by: Haakkon
I feel a great deal of patriotism at being a part of Goonswarm. We've accomplished great things... we're just mainly jerks about it
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Admiral Kwint
Lothian Quay Industries
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Posted - 2008.06.04 04:28:00 -
[82]
Originally by: Amarr Citizen 155
yeah the agenda is clear.....what? what the hell are you talking about? what agenda?
It's the MD-clique out to destroy another innocent trader as part of our evil scheme to take over the world! Muh ha ha ha ha! 
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Professor Leech
Southern Light Entertainment
Black Scope Project
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Posted - 2008.06.04 04:42:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Ming Daizong
MD is a lot different from EVE as a whole, let alone Low Sec.
MD is more like a forum than low sec. You'll find people lurking here that operate anywhere from high sec to 0.0 don't assume that we're all high sec carebears.
Basically stop being so hostile when asking for public money.
Given that a whole volly of scams has appeared in different sections of the eve-o forums all around the same time I'd recommend anyone to stay away from any venture where the op is concealing information that would make no difference to their venture.
Originally by: Crawe DeRaven
this thread is obviously going places
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Amarr Citizen 155
Alternative Methods Research Group
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Posted - 2008.06.04 04:42:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Admiral Kwint
Originally by: Amarr Citizen 155
yeah the agenda is clear.....what? what the hell are you talking about? what agenda?
It's the MD-clique out to destroy another innocent trader as part of our evil scheme to take over the world! Muh ha ha ha ha!
First off, EXACTLY! Thanks Kwint for clearing that up
Second, I'm just tired of listening to this. Your version of trading isn't something unknown to the rest of eve and in all actuality its probably mediocre compared to the average trading operation. No one really cares enough about the actual details of what you buy and sell. The API audit is to proove that you CAN and DO trade.
Third, no one wants to make you their serf made to work the land for generation after generation(with the exception of kwint who does keep several serfs on his home planet of Vaajaita). And incase you missed my point from above, you aren't special and your operation isn't special, no one really gives a **** what you trade, you aren't better than everyone else who comes in here asking for isk and provides their API key, and you don't demand respect from people who don't know you but that you want isk from without first showing some respect.
This might have turned ugly towards the end but it started out as a request, one that has been made TONS of times before you and will be made after you have gone.
One last summary, you aren't special and your operation isn't special. You may as well just be another number like 156.
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Why do it the hard way when you can do it the AMARR way. |
Tobin Shalim
Vulcan Foundry
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Posted - 2008.06.04 04:44:00 -
[85]
Originally by: Admiral Kwint
Originally by: Amarr Citizen 155
yeah the agenda is clear.....what? what the hell are you talking about? what agenda?
It's the MD-clique out to destroy another innocent trader as part of our evil scheme to take over the world! Muh ha ha ha ha!
Hey, you weren't suppose to reveal that! Turn in your lapel pin, you're off the evil scheme committee.
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Originally by: Haakkon
I feel a great deal of patriotism at being a part of Goonswarm. We've accomplished great things... we're just mainly jerks about it
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Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2008.06.04 04:45:00 -
[86]
Originally by: Havok Pierce
You can trust someone like Ricdic or Shar Tegral with your API key--if they found they had a conflict of interest they wouldn't serve as auditor.
Regarding "conflicts of interest": My own api data is readily available to many inside, and outside, of eBank. My financial activities are those of someone not engaged in trade. I might buy something here and there, every so often I sell of parts of the numerous piles of stuff I've got (I'm a pack rat), but I am not actively engaged in any markets. And, just for a point of fact, the entire activities in my corp is included in that disclosure. Equally, for various reasons, the names of all my toons on both my accounts is also disclosed at eBank. One of the things I'm never afraid of, in the least, is full disclosure. I'm just not silly enough to do to the entire public nor would I ever suggest someone else to do so either. However it should go without saying, API key disclosure to a 3rd party auditor is one of the fastest ways to gain some modicum of trust. It isn't foolproof, nothing ever is, but it is much easier than how I did it. Of course how I, and many other highly trusted individuals, did gain trust was through the hard work of proving ourselves in ways starting very damned small to very fricking huge. It was also before the advent of API keys. I would've been much happier to disclose API key to an auditor in the beginning. Would've spared me a lot of flames and trolling. I salute you that you are going against "conventional" wisdom. I am often the "maverick" as well in the things that I do. However I have to tell you not everyone can pull off maverick well. And contrary to each person's ego-centric outlook, you should objectively evaluate your "uniqueness" before you fully commit to the path of the "maverick". Oh, I should point out that my first successful community venture was focused around being a maverick. It was an eve community website and from going against conventions, creating the appearance of not being a CCP stooge, I was able to create a certain idelible reputation of honesty, integrity, and outsiderness. So once I moved to working bonds, I embraced my "marketing" instead of trying to go against it. The number of people I could gather as investors has always made sure that any bond I offer would sell out. And this is why I try to tell newer people to either work at something "else" first or avoid the "maverick" path if they can. Take the advice for what it is worth.
To Shar -verb:
1 - To say what you mean.
2 - To say what it means.
3 - To say something mean. |
Maestro Del'Tirith
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Posted - 2008.06.04 04:53:00 -
[87]
Quote:
Lots of back and forth about nothing
So moving on...who is investing, who isn't, and what will you be doing to track this so that I can evaluate your next public offering based on your performance with this one as well as the potential return?
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Amarr Citizen 155
Alternative Methods Research Group
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Posted - 2008.06.04 04:55:00 -
[88]
Originally by: Ming Daizong
Is the unwarranted claims like that that made me hostile in the first place, aside from the misinformation...
-This is a 1B bond on 3B
-This character is 13 months old not 3
-My last Corp was a production Corp, not PvP
etc. All this information was easily available and, in some cases, right in front of people as they wrote their posts. Its easy to get irritated in such a case, unfortunately.
Furthermore, I realize I am asking for a loan essentially, but it was not for monetary gain but the feeling of a successful project and happy investors. The bond would have netted me 20% more work and maybe 5% more personal gain. A 1B loan is not enough to put me over the top into the big times, its a miniscule number I thought would be low enough to get a start in the public world. That's hardly worth putting up with all this.
The terms "bond" "loan" and "IPO" have been used quite interchangeably in this thread and it makes my side hurt. This is off topic a bit but just take a minute to look at the original post and the replies since then of everyone. Now all we need is Hexxx to step in and set us straight.
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Why do it the hard way when you can do it the AMARR way. |
Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2008.06.04 04:59:00 -
[89]
Out of curiosity, your character name does it have some relevance to you? Ming is an almost obvious choice for an oriental character however Daizong is a bit more unique and, potentially, telling of your intent. (I know the origin of my name is telling of my original intent!)
Emperor Daizong, of the Tang Dynasty, was not known for his shrewd economic sense. In fact, it is cited that his lack of good judgment in that regard brought about the end of the Tang Dynasty.
Granted, this question may imbue your intent with more thought than you may have. However when one plays mysterious, one risks unfettered conspiracy theorizing.
To Shar -verb:
1 - To say what you mean.
2 - To say what it means.
3 - To say something mean. |
Ming Daizong
Mithraeum
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Posted - 2008.06.04 04:59:00 -
[90]
Originally by: Amarr Citizen 155
The terms "bond" "loan" and "IPO" have been used quite interchangeably in this thread and it makes my side hurt.
It is a bond. A bond is essentially a loan. EVE's IPOs are essentially Bonds. To be fair, the term loan and IPO were first used by other posters.
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