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Mithraeum Bond Offering I

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Ming Daizong Mithraeum	Posted - 2008.06.04 05:02:00 - [91] Edited by: Ming Daizong on 04/06/2008 05:02:48 Originally by: Shar Tegral Granted, this question may imbue your intent with more thought than you may have. However when one plays mysterious, one risks unfettered conspiracy theorizing.[/justify] The character's race is Asian-esque so I picked two names off of a list of Chinese names. That doesn't sound quite as exciting but thanks for the history lesson. To be honest, I would've thought my Corporation name, the worshiping place of a mystery religion, would've been one's first question. But c'est la vie. (I actually don't really remember how I came to that name, except that everything else I tried was taken)
Ming Daizong Mithraeum	Posted - 2008.06.04 05:06:00 - [92] Originally by: Maestro Del'Tirith So moving on...who is investing, who isn't, and what will you be doing to track this so that I can evaluate your next public offering based on your performance with this one as well as the potential return? Looks like nobody so I'm about two hours away from just calling it off. The one thing I would've netted from this venture, a smile, has been turned to a scowl. Nobody was particularly happy with my meet-the-investors-halfway of presenting my PvP character's name to a trusted person to be released in the event of something untoward. So that's that.
Maestro Del'Tirith	Posted - 2008.06.04 05:13:00 - [93] Originally by: Ming Daizong Nobody was particularly happy with my meet-the-investors-halfway of presenting my PvP character's name to a trusted person to be released in the event of something untoward. So that's that. I don't think anybody who was actually thinking of investing has had a chance to read it yet...and frankly, unless it is in in GIANT BOLD LETTERS it probably is lost in everything else. I would say the right thing to do at this point is say a) what you are willing to do and will be doing prior to accepting money on behalf of investors b) what you won't be willing to do c) everybody please state if you are going to buy some of the bond, if not, please GTFO as we've already got your opinion After that sits for a day, you will be able to see whether you have investors or not on the terms you want.
Amarr Citizen 155 Alternative Methods Research Group	Posted - 2008.06.04 05:13:00 - [94] Originally by: Ming Daizong Originally by: Maestro Del'Tirith So moving on...who is investing, who isn't, and what will you be doing to track this so that I can evaluate your next public offering based on your performance with this one as well as the potential return? Looks like nobody so I'm about two hours away from just calling it off. The one thing I would've netted from this venture, a smile, has been turned to a scowl. Nobody was particularly happy with my meet-the-investors-halfway of presenting my PvP character's name to a trusted person to be released in the event of something untoward. So that's that. When in MD, do as the MD'ers do.... or something like that. In essence, answer all the questions and provide all the required information. Providing your api key really isn't that big a deal and any of the trusted 3rd parties that would do this for you are trusted to the highest level. They have attained a status by going through the ropes much like we are asking you to do. Whether its pride or stubbornness or both doesn't really matter. If you want MD isk you have to be willing to give us that which we ask for that is within reason and the API key is within reason. If you don't trust the most trusted individuals MD has to offer, then you wasted your time by creating this offering as your original goal was to build a reputation and gain our trust. That's all I have to say about that. -Amarr ---------------------------------------------- Why do it the hard way when you can do it the AMARR way.
Admiral Kwint Lothian Quay Industries	Posted - 2008.06.04 05:30:00 - [95] Originally by: Ming Daizong Originally by: Amarr Citizen 155 The terms "bond" "loan" and "IPO" have been used quite interchangeably in this thread and it makes my side hurt. It is a bond. A bond is essentially a loan. EVE's IPOs are essentially Bonds. To be fair, the term loan and IPO were first used by other posters. Lately most are but historically they have not been and recently some such as Amarr's gambling IPO have not been....
Ming Daizong Mithraeum	Posted - 2008.06.04 05:30:00 - [96] Edited by: Ming Daizong on 04/06/2008 05:30:23 Originally by: Maestro Del'Tirith I don't think anybody who was actually thinking of investing has had a chance to read it yet...and frankly, unless it is in in GIANT BOLD LETTERS it probably is lost in everything else. I would say the right thing to do at this point is say a) what you are willing to do and will be doing prior to accepting money on behalf of investors b) what you won't be willing to do c) everybody please state if you are going to buy some of the bond, if not, please GTFO as we've already got your opinion After that sits for a day, you will be able to see whether you have investors or not on the terms you want. Fair enough, Maestro. I appreciate your help. a) what I am willing to do and will be doing prior to accepting money on behalf of investors 1) I will provide my PvP character's name to a trusted person. This will also be available to those who invest. (PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE do not give out this character's name freely unless something untoward happens because it puts my Corp standings at risk, which puts your money and mine at risk.) b) what I won't be willing to do 1) I will not provide an API Key (Sorry gents, I'm locked in on that issue) c) everybody please state if you are going to buy some of the bond, if not, please GTFO as we've already got your opinion
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2008.06.04 05:35:00 - [97] Originally by: Ming Daizong c) everybody please state if you are going to buy some of the bond, if not, please GTFO as we've already got your opinion Another newb error here. Asking people to not post negatives in this forum only draws more negative posts. While it seems counter-intuitive when you think about it most people are contrary in this regard. Add in the "ego" factor of my MMO players and asking them to not do it is really asking them to please do it more. Now, if you had wished to have a cleaner (free of negativity/trolling) thread you should've posted this in the Sales forum. There you can report posts that derail your sale or posts that can be considered anti-competitive. To Shar -verb: 1 - To say what you mean. 2 - To say what it means. 3 - To say something mean.
Ming Daizong Mithraeum	Posted - 2008.06.04 05:37:00 - [98] Originally by: Shar Tegral Another newb error here. Yeah Maestro, how dare you.
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2008.06.04 05:42:00 - [99] Originally by: Shar Tegral Another newb error here. Originally by: Ming Daizong Yeah Maestro, how dare you. Forgive me there, I did not realize that you had quoted things so badly. From now one I'll realize that you are as incompetent with forum quoting as you are with meeting your investors halfway. Mind you, I can apologize for not noticing how badly you fail. You on the other hand... just keep failing more and more. To Shar -verb: 1 - To say what you mean. 2 - To say what it means. 3 - To say something mean.
Ming Daizong Mithraeum	Posted - 2008.06.04 05:46:00 - [100] Originally by: Shar Tegral Stuff c) everybody please state if you are going to buy some of the bond, if not, please don't feed the trolls Fixed. Thanks for the heads up.
Segge Bolled Rainy Day Industries	Posted - 2008.06.04 07:34:00 - [101] Originally by: Ming Daizong b) what I won't be willing to do 1) I will not provide an API Key (Sorry gents, I'm locked in on that issue) I've got nothing critical to add, I only want to point out that this particular aspect (especially in direct relation to your vehemence about it) is what gave me pause when considering whether or not to contribute ISK. That is all.
YouGotRipped Ewigkeit	Posted - 2008.06.04 08:27:00 - [102] Edited by: YouGotRipped on 04/06/2008 08:35:10 Edited by: YouGotRipped on 04/06/2008 08:34:20 So you're willing to name an alleged, A PVP char but not provide the API key (to an established and trusted auditor) which of course would reveal more info such as additional chars, SPs, whether the (necessary) skills are there, past market operations etc. What are you trying to hide that makes giving your API key such a bad idea? I'll tell you what I believe, you and that Havok Pierce got more in common then you'd want to admit. You should probably hurry and transfer chars between accounts. But let's leave this aside, you've stated that this is your main char, the trader with no contract history, no standings whatsoever. What have you been doing in the past 13 months (the since you've been playing this game)? Shouldn't you have more than 3B isk by now? I assume the whole trading in low sec idea and sudden interest for your current "business plan" struck you about 7 days ago since that's when you've created your corp. Motherships
Ming Daizong Mithraeum	Posted - 2008.06.04 08:39:00 - [103] Edited by: Ming Daizong on 04/06/2008 08:39:22 What's with you and this 3B? What thread are you reading?
YouGotRipped Ewigkeit	Posted - 2008.06.04 08:42:00 - [104] Edited by: YouGotRipped on 04/06/2008 08:43:33 Originally by: Ming Daizong Edited by: Ming Daizong on 04/06/2008 08:39:22 What's with you and this 3B? What thread are you reading? It's what I've made so far in less than a month with limited game interaction. And I'm already thinking about paying dividends. hahah Motherships
Ming Daizong Mithraeum	Posted - 2008.06.04 08:43:00 - [105] Originally by: YouGotRipped It's what I've made so far in less than a month with limited game interaction. Grats. I don't see why you'd repeat it over and over in my thread though.
YouGotRipped Ewigkeit	Posted - 2008.06.04 08:45:00 - [106] Originally by: Ming Daizong Originally by: YouGotRipped It's what I've made so far in less than a month with limited game interaction. Grats. I don't see why you'd repeat it over and over in my thread though. Well pumpkin, someone with your dedication and free time surely could've pulled more in 13 months. Unless you've been PVPing all day instead of trading / manufacturing. Motherships
Ming Daizong Mithraeum	Posted - 2008.06.04 08:47:00 - [107] Edited by: Ming Daizong on 04/06/2008 08:51:36 Originally by: YouGotRipped Well pumpkin, someone with your dedication and free time surely could've pulled more in 13 months. And I did. Seriously...what thread are you reading? It can't be this one. Originally by: YouGotRipped But somehow it struck you to come here and ask for 3B based on a wild idea on how you will allegedly use the money. Originally by: YouGotRipped Shouldn't you have more than 3B isk by now? Please a) Stop trolling or b) take your medication. Thank you.
YouGotRipped Ewigkeit	Posted - 2008.06.04 08:51:00 - [108] Edited by: YouGotRipped on 04/06/2008 08:52:51 Originally by: Ming Daizong Originally by: YouGotRipped Well pumpkin, someone with your dedication and free time surely could've pulled more in 13 months. And I did. Seriously...what thread are you reading? It can't be this one. Originally by: Ming Daizong The purpose of this bond offering is two-fold. First, to provide me with liquid funds needed for trading and other such projects. [...] Bonds Allocated: 100 Issue Price: 10,000,000 ISK Maturity Date: January 2, 2009 Coupon Rate: 10% Coupon Date: 2nd of each month As for the second part about gaining trust for a later IPO - that's also common for those who plan to run with the money asap - you really should reconsider sharing your API key. Motherships
Ming Daizong Mithraeum	Posted - 2008.06.04 08:56:00 - [109] Now you have me wondering if its me rather than you that is in a deep psychosis. Correct me if I'm wrong here, but 10Mx100 = 1B NOT 3B. And I don't remember saying all I have is 3B. Do I need to go see a Psychiatrist?
Roguehalo RH Ship Brokers	Posted - 2008.06.04 08:57:00 - [110] Edited by: Roguehalo on 04/06/2008 08:58:26 What you need to understand Ming is that it isn't THIS bond that's the problem. It's the 3rd or 4th bond for 15/20/25b 3 or 4 months down the line that's the problem. That's why the investing community need to know that verifiable hard info has at least been supplied to SOMEBODY. We really could care less about the nuts and bolts of your business. We just need to know that it isn't a figment of your imagination. And unfortunately, whichever way you look at it, you just TELLING us that it isn't a figment of your imagination isn't enough.
Ming Daizong Mithraeum	Posted - 2008.06.04 09:01:00 - [111] Edited by: Ming Daizong on 04/06/2008 09:04:12 Originally by: Roguehalo It's the 3rd or 4th bond for 15/20/25b 3 or 4 months down the line that's the problem. I will not be opening another Bond until this one is completed. I may pay back the full 1.7B early if investors agree unanimously, but I will NOT open another Bond offering until all that money is in the hands of the investors. I've read enough threads in MD to understand the obsession with Ponzi schemes that I will avoid anything that creates the appearance thereof.
YouGotRipped Ewigkeit	Posted - 2008.06.04 09:03:00 - [112] Originally by: Ming Daizong Now you have me wondering if its me rather than you that is in a deep psychosis. Correct me if I'm wrong here, but 10Mx100 = 1B NOT 3B. And I don't remember saying all I have is 3B. Do I need to go see a Psychiatrist? No, but you're trolling. This is normal for you at this stage. Motherships
Ming Daizong Mithraeum	Posted - 2008.06.04 09:08:00 - [113] Originally by: YouGotRipped No, but you're trolling. Thanks, I was really worried there! I think I've made my point, have a nice day YGR.
YouGotRipped Ewigkeit	Posted - 2008.06.04 09:11:00 - [114] Edited by: YouGotRipped on 04/06/2008 09:13:12 Originally by: Ming Daizong Originally by: YouGotRipped No, but you're trolling. Thanks, I was really worried there! I think I've made my point, have a nice day YGR. Don't mention it. I'm providing free service for the impoverished PVPers. Good riddance! Motherships
Finedele Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2008.06.04 10:31:00 - [115] as i am very unhappy with the forthcoming of this all, espacially with the stubborness of some people (including op and YGR) and mostly the unreasonable declining of providing security (a name of a pvp char is no security at all) makes me pulling off, sorry.
Meg Powers	Posted - 2008.06.04 10:56:00 - [116] Not wanting to troll, just a statement of my position as a player who was interested by the initial offering of Ming's OP. The lack of background information on the chars involved and the trading being done (inEvE skillset, API key etc) have put me off this investment. FYI the attitudes didn't, I don't care if you are naughty or nice on these boards, I'm looking purely at what I know in order to get a 'feeling' for this investment. Meg's out but gonna see how you do. Maybe take a smaller stake 500M? and turn that into a well run scheme? It won't assuage the misgivings some are having about the next offering, but there ya go.
Hexxx	Posted - 2008.06.04 14:25:00 - [117] This is a one-time offer. I will accept being a 3rd Party to verify API data. The OP has 3 days to accept/refuse, please do so within this thread. Regards, Hexxx Chairman of the Board, EBANK Director \| www.eve-bank.net
Ki Tarra Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2008.06.04 14:51:00 - [118] I just wanted to suggest something for Ming to consider with regards to disclosing character identity or API key to a trusted third party: the trust for that goes both ways. If the trusted third party breaks that trust by disclosing information that they should not, they will ruin their own reputation as well. A number of reputable characters have stepped forward with the offer of acting as such a third party, for whom it would be more scandlous for them to break trust than for you to turn scam. If you are serious about carrying through with this bond, then I would suggest that you review your stance on the level of auditing you are willing to under go. The primary use of an audit is to verify what alts will take a reputation hit if you run with the money. Secondary is verifying that your character is more than just a shell that has sat idle since creation. All of that can be verified with one time access to your API key. You problably don't need to provide on going access, just change your API key after the initial audit. I would suggest that you talk with a potential auditor in private, figure out what things he can reasonably verify using the API, then agree as to what should be disclosed and under what conditions it should be disclosed. Remember, that as an relatively unknown character, your reputation is not worth much in the public eye. Many of those offering to audit you have spent year building a public repution, and are therefor unlikely to through it away by carelessly violating that trust.

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