| Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Daemon 187
   |
Posted - 2008.06.04 18:01:00 -
[1]
So I started playing EVE about 2 months ago and I just have to know... are new players just straight up screwed by old players (aka people who have years of training). I have lost a few ships to pirates and have tried everything I can do barring just maxing skills w/o playing to get my ship to a state where I will not get jammed and hosed every time. Here is the question: As a new player (<3.5mil training) is there any solid way to prevent getting jammed and throttled by players with all maxxed out skills? I have gone with warp core stabilizers and they seem to do JACK CRAP. I have been targeted and jammed in under 5 seconds and then its just sit there and take it. Yea I fight back for all the good it does me against all Tech II modded out ships. Do I need to get Warp Core Operation up to 5 or use multiple stabilizers, or what? I am not complaining as I understand its part and parcel with the pvp aspect of the game but IĘd like to have a chance to make it out with the ship I spent the past month outfitting. Long story short its hard to compete against players that are fully outfitted in named gear, named ships, all T2 gear, and then there are usually more than one. Should I just submit that I will not win and just be prepared to lose a ship now and then? Or do I just need to wait to get 2 years of training under my belt before I can begin to compete? |
Terraform
The Scope
|
Posted - 2008.06.04 18:07:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Terraform on 04/06/2008 18:06:55
So I started playing EVE about 2 months ago and I just have to know... are new players just straight up screwed by old players (aka people who have years of training)?.
I have lost a few ships to pirates and have tried everything I can do barring just maxing skills w/o playing to get my ship to a state where I will not get jammed and hosed every time.
Here is the question: As a new player (<3.5mil training) is there any solid way to prevent getting jammed and throttled by players with all maxxed out skills?
I have gone with warp core stabilizers and they seem to do JACK CRAP. I have been targeted and jammed in under 5 seconds and then its just sit there and take it. Yea I fight back for all the good it does me against all Tech II modded out ships.
Do I need to get Warp Core Operation up to 5 or use multiple stabilizers, or what?
I am not complaining as I understand its part and parcel with the pvp aspect of the game but IĘd like to have a chance to make it out with the ship I spent the past month outfitting.
Long story short its hard to compete against players that are fully outfitted in named gear, named ships, all T2 gear, and then there are usually more than one.
Should I just submit that I will not win and just be prepared to lose a ship now and then? Or do I just need to wait to get 2 years of training under my belt before I can begin to compete?
There you go, i edited it so people with normal sight can actually read it.
|
Apoctasy
The Python Cartel
|
Posted - 2008.06.04 18:13:00 -
[3]
I have less sp than you and I'm actively engaging in piracy. Drop the WCS as they sacrifice much needed low slots. Find a corp. Go roam in gangs. Get pvp experience.
Oh and number one rule: Don't fly what you cannot afford to lose. If you spent a month outfitting a ship, you cannot afford to lose it. Go buy a cheap rifter. Takes like 1 mil to buy and fit. Go pewpew.
|
Winterblink
Body Count Inc.
Daisho Syndicate
|
Posted - 2008.06.04 18:13:00 -
[4]
So I started playing EVE about 2 months ago and I just have to know... are new players just straight up screwed by old players (aka people who have years of training)?. I have lost a few ships to pirates and have tried everything I can do barring just maxing skills w/o playing to get my ship to a state where I will not get jammed and hosed every time.
Here is the question: As a new player (<3.5mil training) is there any solid way to prevent getting jammed and throttled by players with all maxxed out skills?
I have gone with warp core stabilizers and they seem to do JACK CRAP. I have been targeted and jammed in under 5 seconds and then its just sit there and take it. Yea I fight back for all the good it does me against all Tech II modded out ships. Do I need to get Warp Core Operation up to 5 or use multiple stabilizers, or what?
I am not complaining as I understand its part and parcel with the pvp aspect of the game but IĘd like to have a chance to make it out with the ship I spent the past month outfitting. Long story short its hard to compete against players that are fully outfitted in named gear, named ships, all T2 gear, and then there are usually more than one.
Should I just submit that I will not win and just be prepared to lose a ship now and then? Or do I just need to wait to get 2 years of training under my belt before I can begin to compete?
Personally, I would have gone with the above arrangement. More pleasing on the eyes, and matches the colors of the furniture better.
Join us next week, as we remodel Greyscale's next Dev Blog, and oh man do we have our work cut out for us!
|
Tasie
|
Posted - 2008.06.04 18:14:00 -
[5]
First off, to a new player I'd advise to either:
a) Stay in highsec when possible
or
b) get some friens/a corp and roam around with them
it IS possible for a completely new generated character to take out an old player. It will be hard tho and requires the "new pilot" to know the ship of choice and so on.
WCS are not worth that much tbh. They make it easier for you not to be scrambled, but if the opponent has +2 scrambler fitted (or just more than one) you will need extra wcs's to counter it and thus you will end up loosing all your lowslots to useless modules.
Regarding the jam thing, you can fit ECM modules of different kinds but again, these are not that effective against dedicated EW pilots as they will more than likely have several modules fitted for the sole purpose of bringing you to your knees while their friends do what they do best.
What I usually do when facing a certain death scenario:
- Always allign to whatever is closest to your current flight path and keep panic pressing the "warp to" thingie
- Save cap for repair and pray its enough (for new players I guess you are gonne miss out here)
You will prolly end up loosing anyways, if your ship/skills doesn't allow you to warp fast.
|
Kzassou Itsuensha
Gothic Fleet
Fang Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.06.04 18:14:00 -
[6]
There are ways that new players can compete against older ones, but your best bet is to avoid being on your own in those situations. Either fly with a gang or don't go into low sec.
Strategies if you find yourself at a hostile gate: Stay cloaked as long as possible and then burn as fast as you can back towards the gate. Do NOT engage the enemy since you can't activate a gate within 30 sec of attacking someone. If you have enough speed / tank / you're not being bumped you should be fine.
On the topic of stabs, yes, you need to fit mroe than 1. Every ship has a warp core strength of 1 (base). If the enemy has that many or more warp scrambling points, you can't warp. Since a disruptor (20km range) has strength 1 and a scrambler (7.5km) has a strength of 2, if you have only 1 stab and they have a scram, you're done. Therefore you'll want to fit as many stabs as you can. Side note: NEVER EVER EVER fit stabs if you plan on fighting. They are for transport only. They cut your targeting speed and range in half, making you essentially useless.
So finally, don't expect to go toe to toe with old pirates. They'll kill you every time. What you should do is look for a decent PvP corp to join (perhaps consider Gothic Fleet  ) and fly in gangs.
|
Tarminic
Black Flame Industries
|
Posted - 2008.06.04 18:18:00 -
[7]
It depends entirely on how you're competing with them.
Yes, if you both climb into the same ship and fight, you're most likely going to die for the same reason that I (scrawny white guy) would not beat Mike Tyson in a boxing match. However, more SP and better equipment certainly don't guarantee victory.
Did you know that ten completely new players in destroyers (as in, they just trained the destroyer skill) can demolish a 5-year veteran in a T2-fitted battleship in before he has a chance to crap his pants? There are plenty of things that you can use to help you come out on top, such as numbers and electronic warfare. Remember that any ship in EVE has a weakness, you just need to find it an exploit it. I might not win a boxing match against Mike Tyson, but I could sure as hell walk up behind him and hit him in the head with a pipe. 
----------------
Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.81 (Updated 4/8) |
Sheerborn
|
Posted - 2008.06.04 18:26:00 -
[8]
 Originally by: Daemon 187
So I started playing EVE about 2 months ago and I just have to know... are new players just straight up screwed by old players (aka people who have years of training). I have lost a few ships to pirates and have tried everything I can do barring just maxing skills w/o playing to get my ship to a state where I will not get jammed and hosed every time. Here is the question: As a new player (<3.5mil training) is there any solid way to prevent getting jammed and throttled by players with all maxxed out skills? I have gone with warp core stabilizers and they seem to do JACK CRAP. I have been targeted and jammed in under 5 seconds and then its just sit there and take it. Yea I fight back for all the good it does me against all Tech II modded out ships. Do I need to get Warp Core Operation up to 5 or use multiple stabilizers, or what? I am not complaining as I understand its part and parcel with the pvp aspect of the game but IĘd like to have a chance to make it out with the ship I spent the past month outfitting. Long story short its hard to compete against players that are fully outfitted in named gear, named ships, all T2 gear, and then there are usually more than one. Should I just submit that I will not win and just be prepared to lose a ship now and then? Or do I just need to wait to get 2 years of training under my belt before I can begin to compete?
Specialize in a certain ship. You'll be up to speed with vets flying that same ship in the matter of months.
|
Patch86
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Atlas Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.06.04 18:28:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Patch86 on 04/06/2008 18:28:30
Its also worth pointing out that, within about 6 months, it is perfectly possible to practically "maxx out" the skills for a given ship and fitting. The fact is, almost all skills in EVE have a maximum of 5 levels (with the exception of those with "Advanced" counterpart skills, which would take it up to 10 levels). Getting to level 4 in a given skill takes only a week or so, for most skills. A given ship and fitting has only a handful of core skills, with a few generic buff skills on top (and many of these will be applicable to other ships and fittings too). And once you've "maxxed out" the skills for that ship fitting, then thats it: theres pretty much no way to fly it better.
Within 6 months if you're focused, a year if you're not, you will be on pretty much a level playing field with the veterans.
(You may be wondering what point there is in being a 50million SP veteran, in this case. Well, the only advantage they have over you is choice- you may be tip top effective in one or two ships and fittings, while they're tip top in 15. Seeing as they can only fly one ship at a time, this isn't really a deciding factor in PvP...)
EDIT: And there Sheerborn goes and gets in first...
------
Originally by: Dark Shikari
The problem with killing Jesus is he always just respawns 3 days later anyways. |
Jbobj
Noob Mercs
|
Posted - 2008.06.04 18:37:00 -
[10]
I've seen groups of noob players take take out expensive ships flown by much older players. I've also seen old players in expensive ships completly wipe the floor with larger groups of new players. It comes down to strategy alot of times, but since the older players usually have more experience along with more SP and Isk, it can be quite difficult.
So yes, you should be prepared to lose ships, and don't spend too much outfitting them. To have the best chance of succeeding though you do need to group up with people. A mess of noobs can sure do some damage if directed properly, but up against a competant, highly skilled nano gang or something similar, they definantly have a tough time.
|
Stakhanov
Metafarmers
|
Posted - 2008.06.04 18:42:00 -
[11]
I'll tell you what : a years old player tackled by a heavy dictor and jammed by a falcon can't do crap either.
If by jammed you just meant warp scrambled , well everyone is subject to that. T2 ships might win 1 on 1 , but will fold like everything else when outnumbered. (unless they are nanoships , in which case they have a good chance to run away unharmed)
Low SP players can compete with high SP players if they have a plan. This is not related to player skill , which is the main reason newbies die to experienced fighters.
Eve is not fair. Veterans in T2 ships will always kill newbies in T1 frigates , without hesitation or remorse.
|
Karlemgne
Tides Of War
Visions of Warfare
|
Posted - 2008.06.04 19:03:00 -
[12]
Why don't you pay your hard earned isk to some asshat who runs a pvp school? 
Seriously though, I don't care what people say, skill points make a huge difference. All things being equal between two command ship pilots, except one has CS 5 and the other CS 4, the command ship 5 pilot wins.
Having said that, the older you get, the less and less total skillpoints mater. Additionally, in eve, unlike some other MMOs, strength in numbers tends to trump age. So fit correctly and in the right fight, 4 1 month olds can take down someone who has been training without pause since 2003.
-Karlemgne
|
JamnOne
|
Posted - 2008.06.04 19:07:00 -
[13]
Ok - WCS was a good idea to use but they got the nerf bat really really bad.
As for old players vs new...it all depends on playing style, planning, and situtation.
Mr Stakhanov who is a post or two above mine got me good the other day for several reasons but the most important - **** poor planing on my part. I knew better, sitting in low sec by myself next to a control bunker...I had no webbies or warp scramblers on me. He was in some fast ship that my guns couldn't lock track fast enough and I died.
It was fun though. The most important part is I learned. That day I learned how to communicate with others in Fleet/Milita channels to get help.
You will die a lot in Eve until you get the hang of it. Enjoy it and learn from others. Find others in low sec you can talk to and work with, when you build up "trust" set up a safe spot form a gang with the person and start learning what you can tank and what damage you can throw.
Just curious - being only 2 months old, what are you normally flying and what is your usual setup?
________________________
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
So, it's all my fault. 
Originally by: CCP Prism X
Hah! Vengeance is sweet! 
|
Tarminic
Black Flame Industries
|
Posted - 2008.06.04 19:11:00 -
[14]
Also, superior information can do wonders. I have crap PvP skills in anything other than drones, but I bet that I could beat the average combat pilot twice my age (assuming we were in the same ship class) if I knew exactly what they were flying and fitting.
----------------
Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.81 (Updated 4/8) |
Karlemgne
Tides Of War
Visions of Warfare
|
Posted - 2008.06.04 19:20:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Tarminic
Also, superior information can do wonders. I have crap PvP skills in anything other than drones, but I bet that I could beat the average combat pilot twice my age (assuming we were in the same ship class) if I knew exactly what they were flying and fitting.
Well, duh!
|
Iriana McNuke
ex 247 v. 01
|
Posted - 2008.06.04 19:20:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Daemon 187
So I started playing EVE about 2 months ago and I just have to know... are new players just straight up screwed by old players (aka people who have years of training).
Short answer: yes.
Not because their superior SP, but because of their superior knowledge of game mechanics, ships, fitings, graphics, or even exploits-that-are-not-officially-exploits. Not to mention friends, corps, alliances and such.
Yes, a 2 weeks old toon can take out a 2 yrs old toon. It happened countless times. What people will NOT tell you is that 2 weeks toon is usually an alt for a 5 yrs old main.
Ofc, a lot of posts with "i've podded my 1st ship at 2 days and was a 3 yrs old player" will follow. Yeah, sure. Was an afk carebear, was solo, had a crappy fiting or was already at structure due an unsucessfull suicide gank attempt.
You will need to lose a lot of ships - preferrably cheap ones (*cough-rifter-cough*) til you start seeing the big picture. And when you have an ideea of what's what, you look back and see that you completed your training on helpless victims, just like an ordinary pirate.
Welcome to Eve Online. :)
-----------------------------------------------
Do you think RL sux? Come and play Eve. |
WA Dragon
108 Field Squadron RM RE
|
Posted - 2008.06.04 19:25:00 -
[17]
ha ha ha ha this is odd I had a flaming argument with some players in some randome local chat room about this very subject. I had 6 or more locals flaming me saying a new player could beat down an old player.
Constantly twisting the argument to suite there points ignoring my valid points.
The up shot as I see it 9-10 times the more experianced player and by experianced I mean better skilled player will win in most pvp situations.
The argument was the lack of tactics in eve such as geting behind the target where armor may be weakest type of thing eve pvp is more like two fat men slugging it out rooted to the spot untill one falls over generaly yes some tactics are involved with guns and blasters but offten its over so fast you dont have the time to think what iff i went around here and concentrated my fire onto his left side sort of thing. if aships were given a weak spot pvp in eve would be a far more interesting affair and would give the lesser player a chance to employ some tactics.
But wtf do I know waits for the falmes again.
To be or not to be......sorry can you repeat the question? |
Mankirks Wife
|
Posted - 2008.06.04 20:39:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Mankirks Wife on 04/06/2008 20:39:07
In Eve, player skill counts for much, much more than the stats on your character.
The sooner you figure this out (and adjust your play accordingly) the sooner you'll stop sucking.
|
Pirokobo
Orion Academy
THE INTERSTELLAR FOUNDRY
|
Posted - 2008.06.04 20:44:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Pirokobo on 04/06/2008 20:53:57
Originally by: Jbobj
I've seen groups of noob players take take out expensive ships flown by much older players.
Smaller merc-vs-corp wars often end as soon as the merc loses a few billion in fittings and implants at the hands of the people he was hired to attack.
Kinda amusing when one or a few pilots spend weeks incurring millions of ISK of damage only to get jumped once and lose ten times what they've inflicted by losing just one ship. A dozen Caracals with scrams kills any battleship, period.
|
VinkNut
Evolution
Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2008.06.04 20:50:00 -
[20]
Edited by: VinkNut on 04/06/2008 20:51:13
So... You have 3.5million in what skills? Are you rushing for the biggest ship you can etc? If so your doing it wrong.
Think, there is only so many skills that can be used to fly one type of ship, for example you can only put so many skills into becomming a intercepter pilot. So, a new player in only a couple of months can become as effective intercepter pilot as a 5 year old player, the only difference been he can probaly fly many more ships more effectivley... Ok as a solo player your not going to get to far in a intercepter but within a gang you will be a great addition and be as good as the 5 year old players flying them.
Myself I love flying smaller ships, I can fly carriers / dreads etc and when required I will, but if I have a choice, its always my cepter hehe!
|
Garreck
Amarr Border Defense Consortium
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.06.04 20:58:00 -
[21]
Newer players are inherently disadvantaged against older (higher skillpoint) characters, sure.
Likewise, tech I ships are inherently inferior on paper to tech II ships.
That said, newer players in cheaper ships most certainly can find success in pvp against older players. Proper use of ecm is a factor, and numerical superiority (this doesn't have to be to a point of rediculousness either) helps. Depending on where a group of players invest skillpoints, two thoraxes and a blackbird (just off the top of my head) can be a terribly effective squad. Battlecruisers are also a great track to take for cost effective/skillpoint efficient pvp.
But as has been mentioned, what you train, how you fit your ships, how you use your ships, how well you work with your gang-mates, how you select your targets, etc (knowledge garned through playing and learning) are a lot more important than a number on your character sheet.
|
Jen Aerin
|
Posted - 2008.06.04 21:02:00 -
[22]
Newbies can compete, you just have to pick your battles and be smart about things.
I've been playing for about a month, and just recently blew up some guy's T2 fitted max-skilled Punisher with my Rifter that I can barely fly. Combat is mostly rock-paper-scissors in this game. Everything has a counterbalances, whether they be with tactics or mods. You just have to learn what works and in what situation.
Eg: If someone is ECMing the hell out of you, you don't sit there and take punishment. You warp the hell out. And honestly, there are few situations where you should actually let an enemy get close enough to scramble you. I'm not really sure what you're doing in the low-sec pirate zones (ratting perhaps?), but if you're giving us pirates the opportunity to web/scramble you, you're clearly not paying enough attention to local. The second someone pops up in local that you don't know, you should be well on your way to a safe spot.
PS: The guy I smoked was a 2005 player. I got lucky, sure, but luck is part of the game.
|
Vellarain
|
Posted - 2008.06.04 21:22:00 -
[23]
Well i am only a week old and i like to stick to the good old mainstay of strength in numbers. I got into a active corp and fly around in 3-5 man packs. Pirates usually wont mess with us and if they do they get thier face ripped off.
Mind you i dont contribute very much but a extra set of guns and some rockets. But thats what i expect from being such a new player in such a old game. Your just going to have to play it slow and keep your wits about you.
|
Zey Nadar
Heavily Utilized Mechanic Mayhem
Einherjar Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.06.04 21:32:00 -
[24]
1v1 you are screwed yes. Join a corp, get a gang.
|
Fuazzole
|
Posted - 2008.06.04 21:42:00 -
[25]
Solo PvP is another name for suicidal behavour(sp) were the aim is to at most harrass peeps or pop somthing before going down.
PvP these days it is essential to be in a gang, and what ever gang has the best ECMing wins.
So, stay in gangs and use ECM, huzzah your gang value is now >/= maxed SP attack ship.
|
Daemon 187
|
Posted - 2008.06.04 22:12:00 -
[26]
Awesome information from everyone. Thank you for not just flaming my question. So the most recent ship I lost was a Raven Battleship which I have had a week or so. Equipped as follows:
6 Cruise missile
2 Large Energy Vamps
2 Invuln shield
1 x-large shield booster
1 shield boost amp
1 large shield extender
1 Sensor booster array
3 PDU
1 BCU
1 Warp core stabilizer
I have been focusing on getting to battleship with good fittings trying to progress to decent quality lv 3/4 missions which I have little problems with. The majority of my training so far has been Learning (all stats 16+), Missile launcher operation, and Spaceship command, with some here and there to get the things I felt like I needed at the time.
It seems my first goal should be finding a decent Corp to work with. I have been mostly questing in .3 to .6 sec zones as the missions pay better but perhaps I will save those until I am flying with a fleet.
My main thing I was thrown by was how fast I was locked onto and warp scrambled, it seemed almost instant. It seems that for movement between low sec zones WCS are worthwhile but otherwise are crap. So for safe travel is it best to just dump as many as you can in those slots just to be safe? Then replace them out with real gear for missioning/ratting?
|
Spineker
|
Posted - 2008.06.04 22:19:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Spineker on 04/06/2008 22:20:58
Edited by: Spineker on 04/06/2008 22:19:11
Bigger the radius of your ships signature the quicker the lock, plus there are ships with built in bonus to locking and the skill of the pilot.
I use to lock pods in my eagle sniper before they could figure out they were dead.
Also advice from an old caldari pilot NEVER EVER mix passive and active tank. Get rid of that extender and get resist amps or something.
|
Jurgen Cartis
Interstellar Corporation of Exploration
Nex Eternus
|
Posted - 2008.06.04 22:48:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Iriana McNuke
Originally by: Daemon 187
So I started playing EVE about 2 months ago and I just have to know... are new players just straight up screwed by old players (aka people who have years of training).
Short answer: yes.
Not because their superior SP, but because of their superior knowledge of game mechanics, ships, fitings, graphics, or even exploits-that-are-not-officially-exploits. Not to mention friends, corps, alliances and such.
You will need to lose a lot of ships - preferrably cheap ones (*cough-rifter-cough*) til you start seeing the big picture. And when you have an ideea of what's what, you look back and see that you completed your training on helpless victims, just like an ordinary pirate.
Welcome to Eve Online. :)
Bolded the important part.
--------------------
ICE Blueprint Sales
FIRST!! -Yipsilanti
Pfft. Never such a thing as a "last chance". ;) -Rauth |
Esmenet
|
Posted - 2008.06.04 23:21:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Daemon 187
Awesome information from everyone. Thank you for not just flaming my question. So the most recent ship I lost was a Raven Battleship which I have had a week or so.
The new player in a battleship is just an explosion waiting to happen.
Sorry but save your battleship for PVE and do pvp in cheap frigs/cruisers until you learn more about combat. Understand when to use the different ships, and most importantly get in a corp and learn to pvp in gangs instead of loosing ships to silly things solo.
|
Pan Crastus
|
Posted - 2008.06.05 00:38:00 -
[30]
New players are screwed in so many ways that I don't even know where to start.
Skillpoints are the least of your problems; many new players will just buy some older characters that are for sale and not be affected much by the skill gap.
The biggest hurdle is all the arcane, badly documented, hard to find (unless you know exactly what to look for and where) information about the game's bugs / intricacies. You can read the whole Knowledgebase (if somehow you would be inclined to, as a new player) and still not know half the interesting/useful things about EVE.
Example: does the tutorial, the ads etc. tell you that metagaming (using a scouting alt) is so common in the game that it's considered foolish (to the point of everyone on the forums mocking you) not to do it while travelling in lowsec and 0.0? No it doesn't. But it's still the case.
So yeah. New players are screwed and if they survice the first 6-7 months of being actively screwed over, then they will feel more at ease with EVE. ;-)
EVE Online: a cold, cruel world where (RL-)rich people replace their losses with GTCs sold to poor students who need to farm ISK to afford their play time ...
|
| |
|
| Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |