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XZypher
XYZ Industries
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Posted - 2008.06.06 16:17:00 -
[1]
where do these come from I have read they came from the lottery , but that changed a while back to something new in every guide I have found but they never mention how the new way works could someone explain please.
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Tasko Pal
Heron Corporation
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Posted - 2008.06.06 16:25:00 -
[2]
T2 BPOs came from the lottery. They no longer come from anywhere, but you can still buy and sell them. Look at the invention links in this post to answer your last question. That's the "new" way to construct t2 gear.
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Erik Erikson
Serenity Of Lost Souls
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Posted - 2008.06.06 16:26:00 -
[3]
T2 BPO's came from the lottery.
When the lottery ended and invention was introduced no new T2 BPO's were released exept those already in the lottery.
The only way to get a T2 BPO now is to buy it.
Look in the trade part of the forums for that.
You can however invent T2 BPC's using the invention system.
Invention is however chance based and expencive to get into.
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DOC PIC
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Posted - 2008.06.06 16:27:00 -
[4]
They came from a lottery from rseach agents. That lottery is no longer in effect. You can buy t2 bpos, the crappy ammo ones start at a billion isk or so and sky rocket from there.Invention took the place of the lottery.
Invention allows you to make any t2 bpc thats a copy from t1 bpc. There are no new t2 bpos. And you CANNOT invent a t2 bpo from a t1 bpo.
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Sergeant Spot
Black Eclipse Corp
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.06.06 18:34:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Sergeant Spot on 06/06/2008 18:35:12
As stated, T2 BPOs came from the BPO lottery.
The lottery worked as follows:
Get a research agent
Collect Research Points (RPs)
(Each RP is a Lottery "ticket")
When ever CCP added new T2 BPOs, some lucky "ticket holder" got one (to claim the BPO, you had to reset your RPs to zero)
95% of the folks who were not getting ten T2 ship BPOs complained (about 94.99% of Eve)
CCP introduced "invention" to take the place of the T2 Lottery, but because many T2 BPO holders spent 10 billion isk+, or even 50 billion+, to buy their BPOs, CCP did not remove the old T2 BPOs from game.
My hunch is that CCP will slowly add more changes that allow better invention, but CCP will NEVER restart the BPO lottery.
There are NO T2 BPOs for the latest T2 Ships (Heavy Interdictors, T2 Battleships, T2 Freighters). Any other future T2 ships will also be invention only.
Edit:
One other VITAL detail
It is NOT FAIR that some folks have T2 BPOs from teh lottery, and other can now never get them that way.
Deal with it.
Play nice while you butcher each other.
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XZypher
XYZ Industries
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Posted - 2008.06.06 19:08:00 -
[6]
ok ive read the info you all have posted and it helped a lot I still have a question tho. Ships no matter what you only get a copy for one?
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Erik Erikson
Serenity Of Lost Souls
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Posted - 2008.06.06 19:43:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Erik Erikson on 06/06/2008 19:44:17
No for ship invention you will get :
For max run BPC's : 1 + the number of runs you get from decryptors
For NON max run BPC's you will get 1 run if you don't use a decryptor or the runs a decryptor would ad to the BPC
edited for typo's
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XZypher
XYZ Industries
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Posted - 2008.06.06 21:17:00 -
[8]
so if i used a Installation Guide when doing research on a BPC of a kestrel with 30 runs, and i got lucky and invented the t2 BPC for a manticore it would have 34?
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Erik Erikson
Serenity Of Lost Souls
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Posted - 2008.06.06 23:25:00 -
[9]
No but let's use your example.
You're doing a invention job using a max run kestrel BPC
The outcome would indeed be Manticores
But the amount of runs is 1 + the amount of runs the decryptor ads.
In this case it would be 1 + 4 (invention guide ads 4 runs to a max run BPC) = 5
A MAX run BPC for ships would only generate a single run BPC
A NON MAX run BPC will generate a 0 run BPC (rounding up to 1 for a succesfull invention)
But the runs added by a decryptor is added before rounding up
A MAX run generates 1 + 4 = 5 runs on the Manticore BPC
A NON MAX run would generate 0 + 4 = 4 runs on the Manticore BPC
In short if you use a run increasing decryptor always use MAX run BPC's
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Lord Fitz
Antares Fleet Yards
SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2008.06.07 07:04:00 -
[10]
 Originally by: XZypher
so if i used a Installation Guide when doing research on a BPC of a kestrel with 30 runs, and i got lucky and invented the t2 BPC for a manticore it would have 34?
The formula is (T2 Production Limit / 10) * (Input Runs / T1 Production Limit) + decryptor runs
That's rounded down if it's > 1.
So for a Frigate it's (10/10) * (30/30) + decryptor runs if you use a max run input BPC. You will get 1 + the decryptor.
If you don't use a max run input you will get 0 + decryptor runs, but always a minimum of 1.
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Corporati Capitalis
Tollan Technologies
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Posted - 2008.06.07 08:49:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Erik Erikson
In short if you use a run increasing decryptor always use MAX run BPC's
Not necessarily. Sometimes it's better to use 1-run BPCs instead, depending on the per-run price of those. For example with some ships and modules you always use 1-run BPC with the 9 run decryptor.
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Kelmor Malbeth
HellJumpers Corp
Diabolic Paradox
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Posted - 2008.06.07 09:01:00 -
[12]
and never ever try to compete in a market where someone else has a t2 bpo
you will never be able to match thier price, as 1 they will have researched the BPO so it`s more effiecnt than yours and 2. they don`t have to invest isk in datacores, bpc`s or decyptors.
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Corporati Capitalis
Tollan Technologies
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Posted - 2008.06.07 09:40:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Kelmor Malbeth
and never ever try to compete in a market where someone else has a t2 bpo
you will never be able to match thier price, as 1 they will have researched the BPO so it`s more effiecnt than yours and 2. they don`t have to invest isk in datacores, bpc`s or decyptors.
Do try to use some common sense before saying nonsense like that, thanks. 
Case in point: Hulk - assuming there are 50 BPOs ingame (and I keep hearing there are more like 32 at most), then those BPOs can't even cover just Jita's demand, let alone the rest of the universe. And in such cases where demand outstrips BPO supply, BPO owners can keep the selling price below invention cost... how exactly?
BPO owners can NEVER push the prices below invention cost by themselves for a long time. This is done either by (clueless) inventors for items that have high demand, or by the buyers for items that have low demand.
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Lord Fitz
Antares Fleet Yards
SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2008.06.07 10:23:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Kelmor Malbeth
and never ever try to compete in a market where someone else has a t2 bpo
you will never be able to match thier price, as 1 they will have researched the BPO so it`s more effiecnt than yours and 2. they don`t have to invest isk in datacores, bpc`s or decyptors.
That's pretty much total BS. The ONLY case where that is true, is for items where the demand is pitiful and the BPO supply is plenty. Thesedays that's pretty much limited to some small modules, modules where the meta module is better than the T2 and plentiful, drones that no one uses for PvP, ammo that's useless etc. In those cases the T2 BPO owners are not making a decent profit either.
In the rest of the cases, the price is determined ENTIRELY by inventors, regardless of of there is a BPO available or not (and as you'll find, profit is no better for items without a BPO than it is for items with a BPO) Actually many that have a BPO are more profitable to invent than those without. As pointed out above, Hulks used to cost 500m, the number produced was less than 1/6th of what it is today, probably 1/10th. If the BPO owners put any on the market for less than the cost to invent, someone would instantly buy them and resell them for just above the cost to invent.
If you can't make a profit inventing something, the likely reason is other inventors, invented the item, and then realised that they couldn't make a profit, but had to sell it anyway or they'd end up with no isk. So they sell for less than it cost them. (Or because they pretend the datacores are 'free' and don't take those into account etc.
Basically. Try to compete in ALL markets. BUT !!! Work out if you are likely to make a profit (using chance calculators and build cost calculators etc) BEFORE, you invent. Don't just invent something because it's an item you use regularly, the best items to invent are obviously the ones where the demand is greater than the current supply, but what items those are will change constantly as inventors spot them and turn their production towards that new item.
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Kelmor Malbeth
HellJumpers Corp
Diabolic Paradox
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Posted - 2008.06.08 22:38:00 -
[15]
okay i`l admit there are some strong aguments in there to counter that point.
however jita is not the the only market in game, and the more marginal regions with less demand would see a more drastic impact in those regards.
even taking into account "free decyptor`s" and players selling at a loss to generate quick isk i can`t belive that the same people could afford to keep selling 100`s of the same item at such drastically low prices, maybe i`m missing somthing here....
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Tasko Pal
Heron Corporation
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Posted - 2008.06.09 00:54:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Kelmor Malbeth
okay i`l admit there are some strong aguments in there to counter that point.
however jita is not the the only market in game, and the more marginal regions with less demand would see a more drastic impact in those regards.
That weakens your argument even further since now those t2 BPO producers are spread over even more territory.
Quote:
even taking into account "free decyptor`s" and players selling at a loss to generate quick isk i can`t belive that the same people could afford to keep selling 100`s of the same item at such drastically low prices, maybe i`m missing somthing here....
Well that depends on what's being made. Hundreds of T2 ammo can easily be made by T2 BPOs. Hundreds of hulks requires T2 invention.
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Siadyu
Eve University
Ivy League
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Posted - 2008.06.09 01:17:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Siadyu on 09/06/2008 01:20:34
Quote:
And in such cases where demand outstrips BPO supply, BPO owners can keep the selling price below invention cost... how exactly?
Hrm...are you sure about that? When trading, I found that I didn't need to have anywhere near enough supply for the entire market in order to influence prices.
For example:
Four sell orders - 1M, 1.1M, 1.2M, 1.3M
BPO holder sets price to 900k.
Inventor0 sets price to 899k.
Intertor1 sets price to 898k
etc
In this scenario, the BPO holder doesn't have to sell many items at all. Granted, he cannot force inventors to sell below cost, but could he not drive the profit margins down quite a bit, thereby reducing the competition? Then when inventors drop out, increase prices again.
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XZypher
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.06.09 01:56:00 -
[18]
So is there a list out there somewhere of the stuff one can only get by invention?
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Lone Gunman
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Posted - 2008.06.09 02:25:00 -
[19]
Originally by: XZypher
So is there a list out there somewhere of the stuff one can only get by invention?
Anything Tech 2 can be researched and manufactured through invention. There is a short list of items that can ONLY be gotten through invention, no BPO's were distributed. Things like Marauders, Black Ops Battleships, jump freighters and some drones.
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Kelmor Malbeth
HellJumpers Corp
Diabolic Paradox
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Posted - 2008.06.09 05:39:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Tasko Pal
Well that depends on what's being made. Hundreds of T2 ammo can easily be made by T2 BPOs. Hundreds of hulks requires T2 invention.
i was never talking about hulks, i was speaking from my personal experince in a paticular region that was with a module.
and yes my soultion to that problem was simply not to invent and build that module.
i also capatilized on it by buying it cheap there, and then undecutting the sellers in other regions.
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RaTTuS
BIG
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Posted - 2008.06.09 10:50:00 -
[21]
Invention Chnace may help
--
BIG Lottery, BIG Deal, InEve,
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XZypher
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.06.10 20:41:00 -
[22]
maybe off topic but what is duplicating skill used for? |
RaTTuS
BIG
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Posted - 2008.06.11 07:46:00 -
[23]
It's not,
it's in the Db but has no use yet and cannot be obtained |
Ko Shimin
Independent Terran Empire
Terran Alliance
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Posted - 2008.06.11 23:15:00 -
[24]
Can t2 BPOs be copied?
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Horchan
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Posted - 2008.06.12 00:13:00 -
[25]
Yes, a T2 BPO can be copied, but in many cases the amount of time it takes a lot longer (3 to 10 times as long) to make a 1-run BPC than it takes to produce one module/ship from the BPO. So you'd be shooting yourself in the foot if you made copies instead of just produce off the BPO. |
Ko Shimin
Independent Terran Empire
Terran Alliance
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Posted - 2008.06.12 00:32:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Horchan
Yes, a T2 BPO can be copied, but in many cases the amount of time it takes a lot longer (3 to 10 times as long) to make a 1-run BPC than it takes to produce one module/ship from the BPO. So you'd be shooting yourself in the foot if you made copies instead of just produce off the BPO.
Then I guess they can be also ME/PE/time researched, in which case, no matter how long it takes to research them, in the end, the BPO owner will be able to produce t2 stuff at a better price than those that have to invent the BPCs and then produce the stuff..
Guess that CCP granted monopoly on certain t2 stuff to a "selected" few.. |
Gridwalker
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Posted - 2008.06.12 03:01:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Ko Shimin
Guess that CCP granted monopoly on certain t2 stuff to a "selected" few..
Oh not THIS hogwash again!
Listen, a lot of people spent a lot of time and effort trying to win these in the lottery. A lot of people also spent a lot of isk... TENS of BILLIONS of isk to buy them from the original owners. There is nothing stopping you from buying one, except your emo attitude.
Please just run straight to Hello Kitty Online right now. There can't possibly be anything there for you to be emo about.
-Grid
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Ko Shimin
Independent Terran Empire
Terran Alliance
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Posted - 2008.06.12 11:09:00 -
[28]
Well, I don't want to buy them, I just want to experience the same time and effort with the R&D agents lottery and stuff. I feel like a part of the game has been locked to me.
Yes, I can buy the BPO with some effort, but would not be the same as the way that the initial owners got them, not the same feelings..
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Lord Fitz
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.06.12 11:32:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Ko Shimin
Originally by: Horchan
Yes, a T2 BPO can be copied, but in many cases the amount of time it takes a lot longer (3 to 10 times as long) to make a 1-run BPC than it takes to produce one module/ship from the BPO. So you'd be shooting yourself in the foot if you made copies instead of just produce off the BPO.
Then I guess they can be also ME/PE/time researched, in which case, no matter how long it takes to research them, in the end, the BPO owner will be able to produce t2 stuff at a better price than those that have to invent the BPCs and then produce the stuff..
Guess that CCP granted monopoly on certain t2 stuff to a "selected" few..
The reality is that there isn't a monopoly, there's a infinite amount of T2 products able to be made by as many people who want to invent them can. The threshold for profitable invention is that the demand exceeds the BPO supply. For items that this isn't the case for, most of the BPO owners end up making less money than I can make from T1 products. Of course many people invent for their own needs regardless of the cost, which is silly but it is a game after all so people can do silly things.
Look at T2 ammo, there were a few BPOs going in the for sale forums recently, but the build cost on them was less than half a percent from the sale price. You could spend decades playing the game and still not make a profit on them, because those T2 BPOs are a monopoly on crap. One of the most coveted BPOs the Hulk, now makes about 200m a week. At one stage they were making over 3b a week. Now things like dysprosium moons are almost making double digit figures per month spurring masses of supercapitals and powerblocks so large that soon we may have almost all of 0.0 allied with each other.
Invention was the right thing for the T2 market, because it didn't remove the assets people had worked and paid for, even though the lottery concept was flawed from the beginning. But it does introduce competition and an effective price cap which means that virtually all T2 BPOs now are worth more to collectors than they will ever make back in profit.
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Lord Fitz
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.06.12 11:35:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Ko Shimin
Well, I don't want to buy them, I just want to experience the same time and effort with the R&D agents lottery and stuff. I feel like a part of the game has been locked to me.
Yes, I can buy the BPO with some effort, but would not be te same as the way that the initial owners got them, not the same feelings..
The reality is most T2 BPO owners probably ran dozens of research agents for several years before getting a T2 BPO in the last round that is worth less than alot of T1 BPOs. There were unique ships given away for events, capitals some people managed to build in high sec, limited edition items and lots of other things that people have that others can only get now by buying from others. It's simply a decision that was taken a long time ago, and love it or hate it, that's just how it is.
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