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Ra Vhim
Black Bag Ops
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Posted - 2008.06.09 20:22:00 -
[91]
 Originally by: Matrix Skye
That's my whole point. The rest of the system has to be in alert mode while the cloaked AFK'er doesn't. Everyone else is on the lookout and ready for combat. Why shouldn't the cloaked ship also be on alert? The locals don't know if the cloaked player is AFK, so they have to be alert 100% of the time. Their threat is very real. While the threat to the cloaker isn't. It's non-existent. I suggest that if they are AFK then they are automatically logged out after say an inactive period of 15 minutes.
And I still suggest that you find some other MMO that will make you feel safe. There must be plenty of games that can deliver that needed sense of safety. My suggestion is not intended to be smack, I'm just saying that some other game might be better suited to your prefered game style.
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Rastigan
Ars ex Discordia
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.06.09 21:06:00 -
[92]
Originally by: Space Wanderer
The usual suggestion of removing local:
- Fixes afk cloakers.
- Fixes cloaks.
There, everybody happy.
It also ruins 0.0 for everyone , including the gankers..
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Matrix Skye
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Posted - 2008.06.09 21:11:00 -
[93]
Originally by: Ra Vhim
And I still suggest that you find some other MMO that will make you feel safe. There must be plenty of games that can deliver that needed sense of safety. My suggestion is not intended to be smack, I'm just saying that some other game might be better suited to your prefered game style.
Nice 
Why would I want to find a safe game when I can just cozy up in 0.0 cloaked and don't even have to be at the keyboard while I put the whole system on alert?
The one avoiding risk here is you. I'm asking you where your risk is and you tell me to go to another game? Great way to avoid the question though.
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Ra Vhim
Black Bag Ops
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Posted - 2008.06.09 21:26:00 -
[94]
Originally by: Matrix Skye
Originally by: Ra Vhim
And I still suggest that you find some other MMO that will make you feel safe. There must be plenty of games that can deliver that needed sense of safety. My suggestion is not intended to be smack, I'm just saying that some other game might be better suited to your prefered game style.
Nice
Why would I want to find a safe game when I can just cozy up in 0.0 cloaked and don't even have to be at the keyboard while I put the whole system on alert?
The one avoiding risk here is you. I'm asking you where your risk is and you tell me to go to another game? Great way to avoid the question though.
But... an AFK cloaker isn't doing anything! The only thing stopping you from ratting and mining is your fear for that lone neutral/hostile in local. You know for a fact that he can not engage you when he is cloaked, you also know that all ships that are fitted with a cloak (save a bomber) have a severe scan resolution penalty, giving you plenty of time to react. If you have a "whole system on alert" then the risk involved for you should be close to zero. The cloaker should have far worse odds.
It isn't the AFK cloaker that stop the whole system from being active, it is the fear/anxiety/stress some people feel because there is a slight risk involved when ratting or mining. Plenty of people either ignore the cloaker, confident that they can deal with it in some way if he decloak, or they try to bait him into decloaking. You are not among those people and that is why you want to nerf the cloak. It is also the reason I suggested that it might be an idea to find a game where you don't experience that disturbance to your game play.
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Space Wanderer
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Posted - 2008.06.09 21:54:00 -
[95]
Originally by: Rastigan
Originally by: Space Wanderer
The usual suggestion of removing local:
- Fixes afk cloakers.
- Fixes cloaks.
There, everybody happy.
It also ruins 0.0 for everyone , including the gankers..
Why would that be? You mean that the fact that the gankers have actually to gather their intel ruins 0.0 for them? Or you mean that the fact that the 0.0 ratters have to actually take care of scanning their system ruins 0.0 for them? Seriously, if you need a silver-platter intel that's just another way to be carebearish, be it ganker, ratter or fleet commander.
Now, to be fair, removing local should probably be accompanied by some improvements in the directional/onboard scanner to make it a bit more versatile. But I don't feel that it is indispensable.
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Rastigan
Ars ex Discordia
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.06.10 00:06:00 -
[96]
Edited by: Rastigan on 10/06/2008 00:06:42
Originally by: Space Wanderer
Why would that be? You mean that the fact that the gankers have actually to gather their intel ruins 0.0 for them? Or you mean that the fact that the 0.0 ratters have to actually take care of scanning their system ruins 0.0 for them? Seriously, if you need a silver-platter intel that's just another way to be carebearish, be it ganker, ratter or fleet commander.
Now, to be fair, removing local should probably be accompanied by some improvements in the directional/onboard scanner to make it a bit more versatile. But I don't feel that it is indispensable.
People rat/mine in 0.0 because the risk vs reward is good. Take that away and you lose the a core amount of players in 0.0.. Without local Force Recons and Covops are suddenly more powerfull than before because they will always get a guaranteed tackle.
The existence of solo/small groups of players doing non-PvP things will diminish to the point that there is no reason for small pvp gangs to go hunting.
Make CTRL-Q the only and best way to avoid combat..
As it is, its not very hard for attackers to use the ingame map information to find out
- #police and faction ships destroyed in a system, faction ships = rats.
- #of players in the system/docked
That plus knowing where the good ore/good true sec of the region you are hunting in especially around station systems and you are guaranteed to find people.
What exactly does a defender have ? local and spamming the scan button 50,000 times.
Yes you could have scouts,and scouts are used for larger scale operations, but that defeats the ability of one player/small groups of players to do anything productive.
The best solution of local = Make a ship appear in local ONLY and ONLY when his GATE cloak is removed.. This allows the attacker to scan 15au within that gate for information. It also allows a scout to assess the system, call in the rest of the gang and have a larger element of surprise, since the scout and the gang will appear in local simultaneously.
Prevents gate campers from knowing the exact number of hostiles till they decloak.
It also gives the defenders/targets some time to have a fighting chance of running away, and eliminates the need to redo the entire intel system in Eve.
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Jmanis Catharg
Stickler inc
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Posted - 2008.06.10 00:34:00 -
[97]
Quote:
That's my whole point. The rest of the system has to be in alert mode
You realise you don't *have* to be in 'alert' mode 
But seriously, people say all the time (especially to carebears) "EVE is a *MM*ORPG, get out there and make friends/join a 0.0 alliance.
You're only at risk from *one* afk cloaker if you're going about solo. Buddy system anyone? One ATK cloaker isn't going to take on two ratters...
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Schani Kratnorr
x13
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Posted - 2008.06.10 00:39:00 -
[98]
Quote:
But now why are AFK cloakers allowed to terrorize systems without any repercussions all while AFK?
I didn't know I could terrorize people while not being at my computer.
(rushes of to put cloaking device on all ships)
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Jmanis Catharg
Stickler inc
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Posted - 2008.06.10 00:48:00 -
[99]
Quote:
I didn't know I could terrorize people while not being at my computer.
(rushes of to put cloaking device on all ships)
Bugger that, I'm going AFK with a cloak on in jita!
1. Go AFK cloaked in Jita
2. ????
3. Profit (apparently)
But if AFK cloaking is such a problem so far as "terrorizing people without repercussion" goes, they should *fix* suicide ganking too
Note: I am not an advocate for 'removing' suicide ganking.
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Guillame Herschel
The Graduates
Brutally Clever Empire
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Posted - 2008.06.10 00:53:00 -
[100]
Edited by: Guillame Herschel on 10/06/2008 00:55:18
Originally by: Matrix Skye
ThatĘs all fine and dandy. But now why are AFK cloakers allowed to terrorize systems without any repercussions all while AFK?
Because you are a mental weakling if a cloaked ship terrorizes you, and good war strategy dictates hitting the enemy's weak spots. Your weakness is an irrational fear of an invisible player who is not present and has no weapons, and I'd exploit it too.
-- The Theorem Theorem: If If, Then Then --
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Guillame Herschel
The Graduates
Brutally Clever Empire
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Posted - 2008.06.10 01:01:00 -
[101]
Originally by: Arlenna Molatov
Everyone in this game since day one has always used the phrase......
"THERE IS NO 100% SAFE AREA!!!"
Apart from stations. And tutorial missions. And being cloaked at a safe spot (which isn't really 100% safe, the cat could jump on the keyboard and hit F1 by accident).
Hey, you know what? Maybe everybody has been wrong since day one.
-- The Theorem Theorem: If If, Then Then --
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Jmanis Catharg
Stickler inc
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Posted - 2008.06.10 01:08:00 -
[102]
Quote:
Hey, you know what? Maybe everybody has been wrong since day one.
But,, but,,, the customer is always right?
Generally in my experience working in days gone by at a Supermarket (and believe me, that's the best place to experience it), not only is the customer generally wrong, but they'll also lie and exaggerate.
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Matrix Skye
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Posted - 2008.06.10 01:22:00 -
[103]
Originally by: Guillame Herschel
... And being cloaked at a safe spot (which isn't really 100% safe, the cat could jump on the keyboard and hit F1 by accident).
You know, I didn't think of that. You're right. If you own a cat there is risk to AFK cloaking.
I retract the OP.
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Matrix Skye
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Posted - 2008.06.10 01:28:00 -
[104]
I must say you lot get very creative when defending your i-wins .
Bottom line is risk vs reward doesnt apply to 0.0 cloakers!
I'm out \o/
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GB Man
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Posted - 2008.06.10 01:34:00 -
[105]
Rely on Local Much?
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Jmanis Catharg
Stickler inc
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Posted - 2008.06.10 01:39:00 -
[106]
Quote:
I must say you lot get very creative when defending your i-wins Laughing.
Bottom line is risk vs reward doesnt apply to 0.0 cloakers!
Creative hey? So dare I ask what "reward" comes from being AFK cloaked at a safespot in 0.0? I'm certainly not firing weapons or mining while I'm cloaked.
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Ephemeron
Anti-BoB
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Posted - 2008.06.10 01:44:00 -
[107]
Some people have really unhealthy attitude toward ship loss
All other issues aside, imagine that you have to rat in 1 system with AFK cloaker. For sake of the argument, imagine that the cloaker WILL kill you when he comes back, which is on average 1 time per 23 hours (so if you farm less, he misses you more often).
Now an average ratter in 0.0 makes 20 mil isk per hour. (including occasional faction spawn)
A fully insured raven with some T2 mods is going to cost 50 mil. That means, in just 2.5 hours of farming, you fully cover the cost of your NEXT farming ship.
If you are a hardcore farmer that farms 6-12 hours a day. You can easily afford to lose a battleship every day and still make a huge profit. But if you choose to be a paranoic and wait every day for the AFK cloaker to leave your system, you don't make any money. You waste your own game time for nothing.
So, don't be such a pussy, slightly adjust your setup to better handle the threat, FIGHT back when he attacks. And don't complain when you die, because you still make tons of profit
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