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TZeer
BURN EDEN
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Posted - 2008.06.09 08:04:00 -
[31]
Edited by: TZeer on 09/06/2008 08:11:43
Edited by: TZeer on 09/06/2008 08:11:19
Edited by: TZeer on 09/06/2008 08:04:34
 Originally by: Pan Crastus
Originally by: Celeste Coeval
Originally by: Sicil Fioet
would be nice if we could probe them out over long periods of time
something like you can cloak and sit afk but only for say fifteen minutes until someone can pick up your trace and warp on top of you
what about RL?
Ctrl-Q ... I see no problem.
Agrotimer...
still in space, probed down, killed...
I will say this again.
CCP, in a recent devblog gave us a short summary of what they where thinking of doing with cloaks/local.
- Ships not designed to fit cloak would be possible ot scan down, but it would take some time and some effort.
- Ships designed to fit cloaks, like black ops, covert ops, recons would be very hard or close to impossible to scan down.
- Local would be changed, it would not work like an instant intel tool like it`s used now. 
They where lookin at different ways of dealing with it. One was having local just show numbers.
You could still get intel, but you actually had to work for it 
All this would come into game as a complete package when it was done.
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Mark Lucius
Kinetic Vector
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Posted - 2008.06.09 09:21:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Akita T
AFK cloakers... can't talk, can't spy, can't move, can't shoot, can't do jack... but SOMEHOW he still "terrorizes" a whole system... 
qft 
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Neddy Fox
Paxton Industries
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Posted - 2008.06.09 09:30:00 -
[33]
They can disable whole ops, because they can be a threat, now, in 30 mins, or in 3.5 hours.
Solution : let cloaks use fuel, giving it a max of 1 hour cloaking.
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Sicil Fioet
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Posted - 2008.06.09 10:17:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Celeste Coeval
Originally by: Sicil Fioet
would be nice if we could probe them out over long periods of time
something like you can cloak and sit afk but only for say fifteen minutes until someone can pick up your trace and warp on top of you
what about RL?
before you head into hostile territory you make provisions IRL that you will have enough time to get out as well or to find an isolated where you can log off and disappear in 2 minutes
this goes for all ships and cloaky ones should not be any different
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Ki An
Filiolus Of Bellum
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Posted - 2008.06.09 10:22:00 -
[35]
Like others have said, it's not the cloaker that is the problem. The problem is that even if the cloaker is cloaked, others can still "sense" his precense in local, and that freaks them out. The one and only solution is to remove local, or at least severely nerf it as an intel tool.
Filiolus of Bellum is recruiting
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Fanjita
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Posted - 2008.06.09 10:26:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Matrix Skye
But now why are AFK cloakers allowed to terrorize systems
how do these people 'terrorize' a system if theyre AFK as far as i understand the term afk it means away from keyboard if said players are afk they cant terrorize much apart from there pet cat. If you are in a system with an afk cloaker what are you worried about there afk, though how you know whether they are afk begs another question are you a hacker who has hacked the afk persons pc to know if they are afk or not?
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Sicil Fioet
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Posted - 2008.06.09 10:32:00 -
[37]
Edited by: Sicil Fioet on 09/06/2008 10:34:14
Originally by: Akita T
AFK cloakers... can't talk, can't spy, can't move, can't shoot, can't do jack... but SOMEHOW he still "terrorizes" a whole system...
recon ships can warp around or "move" cloaked, sit invisible in a belt, de-cloak, lock and kill within a few minutes, cloak up and disappear before any help arrives - they terrorize the entire system since people in it are afraid to go belt ratting, granted some just overestimate the capabilities of afk cloaker, nevertheless the threat is very real for newer players who do not fair as well in 1vs1 engagements of this kind
Originally by: Fanjita
Originally by: Matrix Skye
But now why are AFK cloakers allowed to terrorize systems
how do these people 'terrorize' a system if theyre AFK as far as i understand the term afk it means away from keyboard if said players are afk they cant terrorize much apart from there pet cat. If you are in a system with an afk cloaker what are you worried about there afk, though how you know whether they are afk begs another question are you a hacker who has hacked the afk persons pc to know if they are afk or not?
because you never know if they are really afk or sitting in belt next to your ratting ship or mining barge preparing to decloak, scamble, and kill you - you don't know that precisely because you are not a hacker 
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Neddy Fox
Paxton Industries
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Posted - 2008.06.09 10:34:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Fanjita
how do these people 'terrorize' a system if theyre AFK as far as i understand the term afk it means away from keyboard if said players are afk they cant terrorize much apart from there pet cat. If you are in a system with an afk cloaker what are you worried about there afk, though how you know whether they are afk begs another question are you a hacker who has hacked the afk persons pc to know if they are afk or not?
\
You go with an ice mining op, sitting in an icebelt with 20 mackinaws, and have someone cloaked for 4 hours.
Don't nitpick on works like AFK, since they might, or might not be AFK. Thing is, they can come any moment they like, and kill a few easy ships, now, in 5 mins, or 3 hours. They can shutdown whole systems.
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Grim Vandal
Burn Proof
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Posted - 2008.06.09 10:40:00 -
[39]
eg. pegasus radar complex for boosters production - stay cloaked there and no one can run this complex anymore 23/7 - is this an intended feature?
let cloakers be scannable and this prolbem is fixed ... someone playing while cloaked will still never be catched ...
Greetings Grim |
AKULA UrQuan
Druuge Crimson Corporation
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Posted - 2008.06.09 10:48:00 -
[40]
As someone who has spent way too much time in a covert ops frig the best perk of the job is spreading fear and paranoia throughout half a constellation. Since there is alot of time to kill while doing this job one can dream up some interesting ways to tourture the locals. It's great.
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Celeste Coeval
The Gosimer and Scarab
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Posted - 2008.06.09 11:09:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Sicil Fioet
Originally by: Celeste Coeval
Originally by: Sicil Fioet
would be nice if we could probe them out over long periods of time
something like you can cloak and sit afk but only for say fifteen minutes until someone can pick up your trace and warp on top of you
what about RL?
before you head into hostile territory you make provisions IRL that you will have enough time to get out as well or to find an isolated where you can log off and disappear in 2 minutes
this goes for all ships and cloaky ones should not be any different
thats fine if you live at home with your mum
Originally by: Lance Fighter
This is either a troll or a noob... Ill take the noob route. |
Matrix Skye
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Posted - 2008.06.09 11:15:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Fanjita
Originally by: Matrix Skye
But now why are AFK cloakers allowed to terrorize systems
how do these people 'terrorize' a system if theyre AFK as far as i understand the term afk it means away from keyboard if said players are afk they cant terrorize much apart from there pet cat. If you are in a system with an afk cloaker what are you worried about there afk, though how you know whether they are afk begs another question are you a hacker who has hacked the afk persons pc to know if they are afk or not?
Now I know you KNOW how they terrorize a system. But I'll entertain your silly question anyway.
How do I know if they're AFK you ask? Well I DON'T! But when you have a hostile cloaked for 23 hours a day for days in a single system you and I both know what they're doing. They're interacting with the system all while remaing 100% comfortable and safe. Where's the balance in that? Why is the system forced to play and interact based on what this single player (who could possibly not even be at the keyboard) does or doesn't do?
If you're cloaked and in 0.0 space you're 100% safe. 100% SAFE IN SPACE IN EVE! Where's your "no where in Eve is safe" mantra there? AFK cloaking is broken and it's about time CCP fixes it.
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Freya Runestone
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Posted - 2008.06.09 11:25:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Arlenna Molatov
Everyone in this game since day one has always used the phrase......
"THERE IS NO 100% SAFE AREA!!!"
Now, with any cloak being able to be used on any ship, they can sit anywhere and be completely 100% safe. It doesnt matter if they aren't moving around or if they are/are not AFK. Like I said, since day one in this game there has never been a guarenteed SAFE area/spot/place/thing in this game....yet!!... here we have one.
So yes, cloaking IS broken!! Cloaking is safer than a 1.0 system sitting next to 100 concord AND within docking range of a station.
Whatneeds to happen is being able to probe out the "lessor" cloaking devices, but not the covert ops. Covert op cloaks are just that, covert ops. But the other 2 or 3 devices are NOT covert ops and are farther down the tech tree and there-for should be able to be probed out.
That would get rid of your 100% safe spotted regular cloaked ships but you would still be able to sit in your nice snuggy covert-cloaked ship without any chance of harm comming to you.
But we all know, since covert ops can only be put on ships that dont have extreme firepower or silly silly speed setups, there will be incessant whining and threats of mass-quittings. I could care less.
Fix the cloaks.
it might be safe. but so what? its pretty much the same to the only other safe place. a station. You can't do much sitting at a safe while cloaked.
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Matrix Skye
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Posted - 2008.06.09 11:38:00 -
[44]
Edited by: Matrix Skye on 09/06/2008 11:40:56
Originally by: Freya Runestone
it might be safe. but so what? its pretty much the same to the only other safe place. a station. You can't do much sitting at a safe while cloaked.
Yes you can. You force the players around you to interact and take precautions while you need to take none other than cloak and go watch TV. So some players have to look out for you and guess what you may or may not be doing while you sit safe at a SS cloaked. Where the **** is YOUR risk? Oh I guess that doesn't apply to you .
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Esmenet
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Posted - 2008.06.09 11:44:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Matrix Skye
Edited by: Matrix Skye on 09/06/2008 11:40:56
Originally by: Freya Runestone
it might be safe. but so what? its pretty much the same to the only other safe place. a station. You can't do much sitting at a safe while cloaked.
Yes you can. You force the players around you to interact and take precautions while you need to take none other than cloak and go watch TV. So some players have to look out for you and guess what you may or may not be doing while you sit safe at a SS cloaked. Where the **** is YOUR risk? Oh I guess that doesn't apply to you .
Well the risk comes if he actually attempts to do something other than just sit there.
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Matrix Skye
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Posted - 2008.06.09 11:50:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Esmenet
Well the risk comes if he actually attempts to do something other than just sit there.
Yet the longer he sits there cloaked he wears down his enemies' resolve, accomplishing exactly what he wants without risk. He controls 100% when and where while being 100% safe. And his risk comes if he decides to attack the mining ship in the belt. Nice . You lot are a bunch of hipocritical rats.
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Ilvan
Post with your Brain
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Posted - 2008.06.09 11:58:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Neddy Fox
You go with an ice mining op, sitting in an icebelt with 20 mackinaws, and have someone cloaked for 4 hours.
Don't nitpick on works like AFK, since they might, or might not be AFK. Thing is, they can come any moment they like, and kill a few easy ships, now, in 5 mins, or 3 hours. They can shutdown whole systems.
Then bring some military support? durrr
Space is not 100% secure, news at 11.
_______________________________
In the grim darkness of the far future, there is only lag |
AKULA UrQuan
Druuge Crimson Corporation
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Posted - 2008.06.09 12:01:00 -
[48]
Edited by: AKULA UrQuan on 09/06/2008 12:04:19
The mineing ship could be cheese...Oh I'm pretty sure it's possible to sit at a SS uncloaked and be impossible to scan out. Might even be able to carry enough weapons to kill something as well.
Looks like a good enough reason to do something stupid as any. I haven't been petitioned in a long time now. 
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Matrix Skye
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Posted - 2008.06.09 12:02:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Ilvan
Space is not 100% secure, news at 11.
...Unless you're cloaked at a safe spot.
I love pirate mantra . Because obviously not being 100% safe doesn't apply to you.
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Ilvan
Post with your Brain
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Posted - 2008.06.09 12:07:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Matrix Skye
Originally by: Ilvan
Space is not 100% secure, news at 11.
...Unless you're cloaked at a safe spot.
I love pirate mantra . Because obviously not being 100% safe doesn't apply to you.
Being AFK cloaked in a safe spot is like being docked in a station: untouchable but at the same time unable to do anything.
_______________________________
In the grim darkness of the far future, there is only lag |
Matrix Skye
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Posted - 2008.06.09 12:13:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Ilvan
Being AFK cloaked in a safe spot is like being docked in a station: untouchable but at the same time unable to do anything.
Then what the **** is the point of having docking access denied in 0.0? Might as well be allowed to dock in hostile stations. You just don't get to shop or access the hangar. It's the same crap. If you're in hostile space you should be at risk. But you're not as long as you're cloaked in SS and you can even go AFK indefinitely in HOSTILE SPACE. Your excuses are amusing.
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Ilvan
Post with your Brain
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Posted - 2008.06.09 12:19:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Matrix Skye
Then what the **** is the point of having docking access denied in 0.0? Might as well be allowed to dock in hostile stations. You just don't get to shop or access the hangar. It's the same crap. If you're in hostile space you should be at risk. But you're not as long as you're cloaked in SS and you can even go AFK indefinitely in HOSTILE SPACE. Your excuses are amusing.
Wahhhhhh.
CCP has already stated that cloaks are becoming less of a binary "can't touch this" toggle, so stop whining. Consult post #32 in this thread for more info.
In the meantime, if you want to mine in dangerous space, take combat support. All I can say.
_______________________________
In the grim darkness of the far future, there is only lag |
Gypsio III
Bambooule
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Posted - 2008.06.09 12:22:00 -
[53]
Quote:
You go with an ice mining op, sitting in an icebelt with 20 mackinaws, and have someone cloaked for 4 hours.
Don't nitpick on works like AFK, since they might, or might not be AFK. Thing is, they can come any moment they like, and kill a few easy ships, now, in 5 mins, or 3 hours. They can shutdown whole systems.
If you're incapable of protecting a mining op from a single cloaker, you don't deserve to be in 0.0. 0.0 is supposed to be dangerous... as a cloaker that tries to attack a competently-defended mining/ratting op will find out.
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Matrix Skye
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Posted - 2008.06.09 12:28:00 -
[54]
Edited by: Matrix Skye on 09/06/2008 12:28:50
Originally by: Gypsio III
If you're incapable of protecting a mining op from a single cloaker, you don't deserve to be in 0.0. 0.0 is supposed to be dangerous... as a cloaker that tries to attack a competently-defended mining/ratting op will find out.
Did you type this with a straight face?
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Gypsio III
Bambooule
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Posted - 2008.06.09 12:39:00 -
[55]
As you mine away in complete safety, beady eyes fixed on local, listening to your scouts and intel channels, I must ask: "Did you?".
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Neddy Fox
Paxton Industries
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Posted - 2008.06.09 12:43:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Gypsio III
If you're incapable of protecting a mining op from a single cloaker, you don't deserve to be in 0.0. 0.0 is supposed to be dangerous... as a cloaker that tries to attack a competently-defended mining/ratting op will find out.
So your cloaked smartbomb battleship, worth 80 mill can be killed before it takes out 10 macks ?
Plz show me this setup, I'm rather noobish, and i'd like to learn from the masters.
It's pretty simple : we DO have military presence, but as they can't find bloody afk cloakers, the miners are forced to stay docked / at a pos until he's found. And since he's watching TV, or walking the dog, cloaked, he grinds a whole system to a halt.
Again : Let cloakers run on fuel, that will sort things bigtime.
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Ilvan
Post with your Brain
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Posted - 2008.06.09 13:15:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Rastigan
No cloaking device should be able to make ships hidden from probes, they should just apply a hidden multiplier (ala deadspace) depending on which cloaking device they are using with Covops cloak II being the strongest.
Which is what CCP is apparently doing.
Won't stop people from whining, though, just like the jet-can flagging didn't stop people from whining about ore thieves.
_______________________________
In the grim darkness of the far future, there is only lag |
Matrix Skye
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Posted - 2008.06.09 13:23:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Ilvan
But he's not safe if he actually tries to do something. And if he's doing something, he's not "AFK cloaking", is he? He's waiting.
PS. "hypocrite"
But a cloaked AFK ship in 0.0 IS doing something . He's got everyone in the system on red alert while he's at school or sleeping. But then again you know this. And yet you still defend your risk-free AFK cloak. All the while still preaching "nowhere's safe blah blah blah".
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Rastigan
Ars ex Discordia
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.06.09 13:24:00 -
[59]
Now they need to fix the aggression timer so that you can hold people in space..
As it is, you can warp an interceptor to a belt, when the ratter sees the interceptor show up on overview slowing from warp, the ratter can ctrl-q before being aggressed and disappear in roughly 1 minute, heck sometimes you cant even target them and they still E-warp off.
I've given up combat probing because there is no point catching the SS of the logged off ratter and calling in the gang so they can watch him disappear in 15 seconds. I dont understand why the aggression timer cant be applied to ships still in space, but logged out..
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Freya Runestone
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Posted - 2008.06.09 13:26:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Matrix Skye
Originally by: Esmenet
Well the risk comes if he actually attempts to do something other than just sit there.
Yet the longer he sits there cloaked he wears down his enemies' resolve, accomplishing exactly what he wants without risk. He controls 100% when and where while being 100% safe. And his risk comes if he decides to attack the mining ship in the belt. Nice . You lot are a bunch of hipocritical rats.
He can attack something once. and his ship type+setup will be known. which makes it 3 times as hard to attack something a second time.
but if you want to spend 10 hours to build up to attack something. You could use that more wisely imho
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