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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Arithron
Gallente Trade Alliance
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Posted - 2008.06.09 22:20:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Arithron on 09/06/2008 22:20:29
The council will be able to vote for its own chair and I'll probably get to sit back and sip fine wine. But at least I'll have cat-herded some decent issues onto the agenda and made a progressive change to the constitution in the inaugural CSM.
Nice, but remember those other 8 players that were also on the council and voted on those 'cat-herded' issues?
Plus, you are forgetting, it isn't the CSM's or Chair's responsibility to make changes to the constitution. All such matters should be directed to CCP to make rulings on, such as alternates in meetings, muting representatives etc.
You have no more power in a meeting than any other CSM representative. You can chair the meeting, but a failure of a meeting is your responsibility and no one elses. You have no rights to make 'final rulings' etc. Read the documents again, then post the passages that give you those rights.
Take care,
Bruce Hansen
I still see you have yet to step down as Chairman, despite your election promise.
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Arithron
Gallente Trade Alliance
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Posted - 2008.06.09 22:50:00 -
[2]
Yawn. Why do you keep flogging this dead horse? I said I'd do my best to get a change to the constitution that made the CSM chair elected by the committee. I've written, publicly discussed, and commended the issue to the CSM, its been added to the Iceland agenda. If I manage to see this put into the constitution by vote and consultancy with CCP I'll step down and stand for re-election as chair under the new rules. If it doesn't get added to the constitution I won't. Its fairly simple to understand. I want to ensure that no future CSM session will be led by a person who wins the popular vote but isn't capable of chairing meetings. If I don't get this surety then there is no purpose to resigning and I'll stand as chair for the full session
This issue keeps coming up because it's something you said you'd do before being elected, and now haven't done. Again, I ask you where the passages are that give you the right to change the CSM constitution? I see NO evidence of submission of CSM constitution stuff to CCP for rulings, just proposals and votes in the CSM meetings.
You have now put conditions on standing down as Chair?
I also see that Agenda item 4 (Science and industry) had the voting before discussion and during it. Can you, as chairman, please explain clearly and concisely what the vote for this item was for and what forum posts we can expect to see in regard to the issues listed in the volumous pdf document?
take care,
Bruce Hansen
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Arithron
Gallente Trade Alliance
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Posted - 2008.06.09 22:59:00 -
[3]
Again, I ask you where the passages are that give you the right to change the CSM constitution? I see NO evidence of submission of CSM constitution stuff to CCP for rulings, just proposals and votes in the CSM meetings.
Still managing to avoid this one, since its proving a little harder than you thought to find those passages?
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Arithron
Gallente Trade Alliance
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Posted - 2008.06.09 23:04:00 -
[4]
You can ask Jade, since he isn't denying stating that he'd stand down as chairman 
Take care,
Bruce Hansen
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Arithron
Gallente Trade Alliance
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Posted - 2008.06.09 23:12:00 -
[5]
Actually, you are supposed to be presenting to CCP PLAYER issues, not CSM constitution ones. You seem to make decisions in meetings and through votes that WILL NOT be put to CCP. This, frankly, is an abuse of power by the CSM, and not its purpose. CSM mechanisms, if in doubt, should be clarified through CCP directly, not group decisions by the Chair and representatives. Before clarification, if it takes some time to come, you should be guided by the CSM documents...which give you no rights to change/decide/propose alterations of the CSM constitution.
Besides, any issue that is discussed and voted upon MUST be put to the players via the threads for 7 days...
Bruce Hansen
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Arithron
Gallente Trade Alliance
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Posted - 2008.06.09 23:34:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Arithron on 09/06/2008 23:36:20
Actually, I was referring to other CSM issues apart from the chairman one...such as alternates/abstaining etc.
I'm also asking for the written evidence that allows the CSM to vote on these matters at all. You have produced no evidence regarding CCP rulings on any matters regarding CSM constitution changes or CSM meetings etc.
Bruce Hansen
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Arithron
Gallente Trade Alliance
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Posted - 2008.06.09 23:49:00 -
[7]
Or the inability of the CSM to actually ask CCP for rulings and guidance on these matters. Instead, they chose to act outside their scope entirely....
Bruce Hansen
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Arithron
Gallente Trade Alliance
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Posted - 2008.06.09 23:59:00 -
[8]
Who are you calling a moody so-and-so? I think you do a disservice to those candidates who were unsuccessful by suggesting that they would have not applied themselves diligently to the job as most of the CSM representatives have done.
Your assertions regarding CCP are frankly unfair, as you did have a CCP member in your first meeting where you could have put CSM mechanism specifics to get clarification. Besides, I am sure they would have given requests from the CSM on CSM matters good thought and prompt response.
It still gives the CSM no right to 'make things up' and step outside their remit, as specified in the CSM documentation. That was an error I am glad to see you have finally admitted to. Thank you.
Time for the CSM to send a mail to CCP regarding some CSM mechanism questions and Constitutional matters eh?
Take care,
Bruce Hansen
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Arithron
Gallente Trade Alliance
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Posted - 2008.06.10 21:52:00 -
[9]
You actually. You've stalked these forums for the last three weeks like some kind of morbid vulture picking holes and singing songs of doom and gloom and anytime anybody actually tries to engage with you they get more carping criticism and nit-picking leaving the poor respondent wondering they bothered in the first place. I've tried to explain the situation to you but you still insist on trying to blame and whine and complain about whats been done over the course of three weeks of frenetic struggle to get this show on the road. At this stage Arithron though I'm deeply tempted to tell you where to get off I'm still going to advise my fellow CSM reps to try and reach middle ground with you on these multi-item issues, but I'm going ask you in turn to shelve the pettifoggery for long enough to see we are actually trying to work with you here and do the best we can do.
I feel I must reply to such a personal attack, which I feel is totally out of order and not in keeping with your supposedly high standards of societal duties that CSM reprsentatives are supposed to have.
How have I stalked the forums? I have brought up issues that affect the players of EVE. I have always been polite, non-personal and non-insulting. Everything I have raised has been backed up via CSM documentation or POSTED forum comments.
You clearly have mistaken me for someone else 'singing songs of doom and gloom'! I want the CSM to work...I stood remember, and will be doing so again next time around.
Maybe you take players pointing out the guidelines and rules personally? I can't apologise for that, since I have never attacked anyone personally.
You don't need to work with me, you need to work FOR me and all the other 220,000 players that you represent. The issue I raised regarding multiple issues as one post and vote affects everyone. If my concern for due process and rules concerns you, again I can't apologise- someone needs to raise these issues and highlight the areas of concern.
Take care,
Bruce Hansen |
Arithron
Gallente Trade Alliance
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Posted - 2008.06.10 23:04:00 -
[10]
Thank you for finally accepting my points on all of the above, as this is what I have been asking and pointing out for the past 2 weeks! Of course, an apology for your earlier comments might not go amiss ;)
It's good to see that from now on the CSM will be focussing on the IMPORTANT stuff of player issues.
Lets hope the way forward is brighter...
Take care,
Bruce Hansen
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Arithron
Gallente Trade Alliance
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Posted - 2008.06.10 23:14:00 -
[11]
I always have respect for a person that can admit when they were wrong. Apology accepted.
take care,
Bruce Hansen
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Arithron
Gallente Trade Alliance
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Posted - 2008.06.17 20:14:00 -
[12]
LaVista, could you please tell us exactly what issues (each specific one) that you got through then? Or did you get through 6 topics with multiple issues?
How is this splitting them up for discussion and voting purposes?
Take care,
Bruce Hansen
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Arithron
Gallente Trade Alliance
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Posted - 2008.06.20 15:43:00 -
[13]
You may want to actually quote something of substance when replying? I have reported you, as your post is, if nothing else, offensive.
What is truely sad is that many representatives can not even be bothered to interact and discuss issues with the players of Eve, nor answer simple questions about issues and the procedure they are presented to the council.
You seem to think that the CSM council can change the game? I think that the CSM documents would suggest otherwise.
Take care,
Bruce Hansen (Arithron)
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