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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Halca
Mutually Assured Distraction
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Posted - 2008.06.09 15:17:00 -
[1]
 Originally by: Hardin
Putting my head above the parapet again  I would like to point out that in last week's meeting (and most of this week's meeting) a lot of useful business was done.
A lot of issues - are going to be brought forward to Iceland - most of them fairly unanimously supported. Many of these changes are small tweaks which incrementally and collectively should make EVE a better game for us all - even if CCP only acts on 50% of them.
Yes, the meeting last night did become ridiculous at points - which obviously isn't great - but there is still the potential for a lot of good to come out of CSM so please don't judge it on the basis of these chatlogs but on the results that are delivered.
If nothing changes - that will be the point we can slam the CSM - until then just enjoy the 'entertainment' 
With all due respect to yourself and to the others who are actually taking this seriously, it's deplorable how much time is wasted in these meetings for petty and ridiculous stuff. If you guys need clarifications on what you should be doing and how you should be doing it with regard to the constitutions you should talk to ccp directly and stop wasting time with this inconsequential excrement that has happened for the last three meetings.
You should not be voting on or discussing how the CSM should be run, you should be discussing and voting on issues that the community has brought to your attention. Your current chairman is more interested in petty bureaucratic issues which at the end of it all have no bearing whatsoever with what you guys were elected to do.
Stop bringing up these issues with the CSM during the meetings and if you must talk about them do it on your own time on the forums or in private and then bring them to ccp yourselves. You are not serving the community with this.
You should be talking about internet spaceships so for the love of all that is holy, please do it.
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Halca
Mutually Assured Distraction
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Posted - 2008.06.09 15:32:00 -
[2]
Originally by: Furb Killer
@halca, if you havent decided how exactly the voting is done it is pretty useless to vote. So it is normal to first decide about such things
This is a problem for ccp to clarify, not for them to decide arbitrarily in a meeting that is being misused for bureacratic silliness. They are there to represent us, not to play at politics.
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Halca
Mutually Assured Distraction
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Posted - 2008.06.09 15:40:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Furb Killer
The problem wasnt that, the problem was that jade wasnt exactly ideal, but also that many other members had serious issues about knowing when to shut up. 8 people trying to speak at same time on eve in game chat just does not work.
My problem is that every single argument to date has been about some petty bureucratic crap that has no bearing on any of the actual issues being raised. Ironically when they discuss real issues they get voted on and resolved quickly. Instead we're forced to suffer through pages of chatlogs about stuff nobody really cares about. If they are really struggling this much at understanding what they should be doing and how it should be done then maybe it's time for them to go talk to ccp for clarifications instead of wasting so much time on this piffle.
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Halca
Mutually Assured Distraction
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Posted - 2008.06.09 15:45:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Hardin
Unfortunately Halca CCP did not give us specifics on how this would work. We are therefore having to develop a 'constitution' as we go along.
Therefore this first CSM was always going to be a bit 'messy' until basic procedures are put in place.
In theory subsequent CSM's will then have a 'structure' to work from and can avoid some of the more pointless 'procedural' debates.
Talk to CCP about it please, if this is the case then you are doomed to continued failure. You guys know you are wasting time with this, so do something about it. I seriously doubt CCP will refuse to help on this issue but if they do I'm sure you guys could raise some hell if it was brought to light.
So far these meetings have been deplorable and they seem to be getting worse.
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Halca
Mutually Assured Distraction
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Posted - 2008.06.09 16:04:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Hardin
Halca, I have to disagree with you. There have been plenty of 'good results' out of the first few meetings in the shape of issues being brought forward to Iceland - the majority pretty unanimously.
Yes the chatlogs are messy - and plain childish at points - but please look at the bigger picture. If CSM can actually deliver CCP action on even 50% of the items we already have on the agenda I would consider the process to have been successful. Of course that still needs to happen but hopefully once we move to the face to face part people will be more reasonable (well I hope so anyway) 
I didn't mean to say that the CSM have done nothing Hardin, merely that you could achieve substantially more without this level of bureacracy for the sake of bureaucracy. Talk to CCP about the constitution and formalise the rules, get them to clarify it and you will have more time to deal with the issues instead of wasting your time on something they might not be happy with anyway and in my opinion is beyond your remit in the first place.
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