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CSM Council Members Kicking and Muting eachother like Children

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 1 post(s)
Kelsin Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2008.06.09 15:26:00 - [1] Originally by: Hardin Putting my head above the parapet again I would like to point out that in last week's meeting (and most of this week's meeting) a lot of useful business was done. A lot of issues - are going to be brought forward to Iceland - most of them fairly unanimously supported. Many of these changes are small tweaks which incrementally and collectively should make EVE a better game for us all - even if CCP only acts on 50% of them. Yes, the meeting last night did become ridiculous at points - which obviously isn't great - but there is still the potential for a lot of good to come out of CSM so please don't judge it on the basis of these chatlogs but on the results that are delivered. If nothing changes - that will be the point we can slam the CSM - until then just enjoy the 'entertainment' I totally agree - keep your eyes on the prize. I do think a voice chat might be preferable though, one would hope that would cut down on the distracting parenthetical asides.
Kelsin Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2008.06.09 20:06:00 - [2] Originally by: Verone I'm genuinely concerned, because I don't feel that as a chairman, you should be silencing any member of the CSM who wants to speak and has the right to do so. Whether or not they had the right to do so is the question. It depends on whether there are rules of order or whether any CSM rep can shout whatever they want wheneve they want. If the chair's job is to lead the meeting and ensure it adheres to rules of order, then it surely is the chair's job to call for silence when participants are out of order. The question is whether there are rules of order - either implicitly or explicitly - that the participants are supposed to be abiding by. Serenity Steele may have been using a method of requesting the floor of his own devising, but all the council members should be behaving with that sort of decorum, otherwise we have the parentheticals and exclamations that get in the way of an orderly discussion where everyone has a turn to say their peace. I don't think the intention is for the CSM chamber to be a place where people shout over each other. And in the end that means someone has to be able to enforce order if the members cannot contain themselves to orderly conduct.
Kelsin Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2008.06.09 20:43:00 - [3] Originally by: Darius JOHNSON If you look to the meeting prior to yesterday you'll see that as long as we stick to spaceships and away from power grabs, we are quite capable of carrying on a dialogue without the need for a daddy. Hell yes to this. Cheers to you all for sticking it out and getting issues on the table with CCP, as that's the most important thing. That said, CCP did appoint a chair - the person with the most votes. And they charged that Chairperson with leading the meetings. Implicit in leading meetings is keeping some semblance of order and moving the discussion and agenda forward. While you suggest that the Chair has no powers, the only documentation of how the CSM is supposed to run says the Chairperson runs the meetings. It would have been nice if CCP had written detailed instructions, but they didn't. It's up to you guys to work together to keep things moving and the only instruction given is that Jade's supposed to lead that effort. I think it's fair to argue with the exact nature of how he's supposed to do that, but to claim CCP's intention was that he have no authority on which to lead meetings is false, as it does say in the CSM document that that is his job as Chairperson.
Kelsin Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2008.06.09 21:34:00 - [4] Originally by: Verone As soon as I saw your corporate ticker I chose to disregard your post, knowing full well what it's content would be. Well, that's a YP not an MP.
Kelsin Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2008.06.09 22:28:00 - [5] Originally by: Arithron You have no more power in a meeting than any other CSM representative. You can chair the meeting, but a failure of a meeting is your responsibility and no one elses. You have no rights to make 'final rulings' etc. Read the documents again, then post the passages that give you those rights. Reposted from above: CCP did appoint a chair - the person with the most votes. And they charged that Chairperson with leading the meetings. Implicit in leading meetings is keeping some semblance of order and moving the discussion and agenda forward. While you suggest that the Chair has no powers, the only documentation of how the CSM is supposed to run says the Chairperson runs the meetings. It would have been nice if CCP had written detailed instructions, but they didn't. It's up to you guys to work together to keep things moving and the only instruction given is that Jade's supposed to lead that effort. I think it's fair to argue with the exact nature of how he's supposed to do that, but to claim CCP's intention was that he have no authority on which to lead meetings is false, as it does say in the CSM document that that is his job as Chairperson.
Kelsin Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2008.06.09 22:53:00 - [6] Originally by: Arithron You have now put conditions on standing down as Chair? Arithron where did you see this conditionless promise to stand down as Chair if elected? I don't see it anywhere, are you sure about that?
Kelsin Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2008.06.09 23:00:00 - [7] Edited by: Kelsin on 09/06/2008 23:00:49 Originally by: Goumindong Originally by: Kelsin Arithron where did you see this conditionless promise to stand down as Chair if elected? I don't see it anywhere, are you sure about that? It was in one of the live/chats interviews iirc. Oh, so it's posted as an mp3 or something somewhere? Link?
Kelsin Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2008.06.09 23:55:00 - [8] Originally by: Bane Glorious http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=777318&page=1#17 Originally by: Jade Constantine Morning everyone! Yep, I decided after consultation that the best route forward if I actually want to change the constitution from making the chairman position an automatic post to an elected post was to function as stand-in chairman initially and propose a measure myself for the agenda. This proposal is going to need the seven-day discussion period and 5/9 CSM votes to make the formal agenda for Iceland (as does any other measure). Anybody that desires further debate on that subject is welcome to contribute on the topic when it's formally-raised in the appropriate forum section. But for now we will follow the process we signed up to follow - hence I'm organizing the vote for the positions currently electable on the CSM (Vice-chair, Secretary, Vice-Secretary) according to the existing constitution. ... I've chosen to follow the agreed process for making changes to the constitution. He did at one point say he would step down, but changed his mind. Not that there is anything saying he can't go back on an off-handed comment on his own ventrilo server. So every record of Jade's position on this is consistent, except for the one recounted by an unknown person who heard it differently late one night?
Kelsin Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2008.06.10 20:55:00 - [9] Originally by: Dippin Dots I'd like to add that up until I read this thread I was on a trial account, and for some madhouse reason this actually made me want to activate my account. I love it. Welcome to Eve Dippin!
Kelsin Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2008.06.10 23:37:00 - [10] Cheers to that, well done guys.

Kelsin Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2008.06.11 02:33:00 - [11] Hi. I expect Darius has plenty of ideas for writing up how to pitch it to CCP but simple though the actual topic is, if for some reason he's into collaborating, I'm up for it. And...broken record...while Capturing Stargates is an interesting jumping off point for a wild revamp of Sovereignty, that's not what Darius is writing up...and he already knows that...etc etc. I love you Goons, Kelsin
Kelsin Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2008.06.11 02:58:00 - [12] Originally by: Aprudena Gist You will never get a dramatic change to the sov system like that though ccp anyways they would never spend the time/effort. I get why you say that, but...and I've said this a lot recently...CCP Nozh actually posted something pretty similar beforehand, and my example was just based off of that. His version is linked in the OP of one of those two links Goum posted. So my thing was a relatively small variation on something they're already working on - hence the CSM proposal to inquire as to how that revamp they're already working on was coming. Don't shoot the messenger, I'm fragile.

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