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Titsy Normous
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Posted - 2008.06.11 16:43:00 -
[1]
I'm currently working towards level 4 missions and was wondering which battleship can do them the fastest. I was aiming for a cruise raven but now i'm thinking that a turret based ship might be able to complete them faster due to the instant damage and immunity to defenders.
Out of the turret based ships i'd guess the best candidates would be the Apoc, Abaddon or Rohk. Which is better and why?
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Titsy Normous
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Posted - 2008.06.11 16:43:00 -
[2]
I'm currently working towards level 4 missions and was wondering which battleship can do them the fastest. I was aiming for a cruise raven but now i'm thinking that a turret based ship might be able to complete them faster due to the instant damage and immunity to defenders.
Out of the turret based ships i'd guess the best candidates would be the Apoc, Abaddon or Rohk. Which is better and why? |
Epidemis
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Posted - 2008.06.11 16:48:00 -
[3]
You're thinking wrong. The only thing that is relevant is DPS.
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Epidemis
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Posted - 2008.06.11 16:48:00 -
[4]
You're thinking wrong. The only thing that is relevant is DPS. |
Boz Well
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Posted - 2008.06.11 16:50:00 -
[5]
Well defenders do reduce DPS. But turret ships also miss sometimes (depending on tracking), so it just depends. You're right that the effective DPS after misses/defenders is what's important though. Also you should consider who you mission against. I.e., rokh against sansha won't be so hot, same for apoc/abaddon vs. gursita. If you're in Caldari space, I might go for a rokh (or a thron actually). If you're in Amarr space, pew pew with lasers, and if Minmatar space... get a Raven? 
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Boz Well
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Posted - 2008.06.11 16:50:00 -
[6]
Well defenders do reduce DPS. But turret ships also miss sometimes (depending on tracking), so it just depends. You're right that the effective DPS after misses/defenders is what's important though. Also you should consider who you mission against. I.e., rokh against sansha won't be so hot, same for apoc/abaddon vs. gursita. If you're in Caldari space, I might go for a rokh (or a thron actually). If you're in Amarr space, pew pew with lasers, and if Minmatar space... get a Raven? |
kor anon
Ministry of War
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Posted - 2008.06.11 16:53:00 -
[7]
 Originally by: Epidemis
You're thinking wrong. The only thing that is relevant is DPS.
shes on the right track actually, defenders cut alot of dps from missile, therefore turrets will always have higher dps which is also instantaneous.
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kor anon
Ministry of War
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Posted - 2008.06.11 16:53:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Epidemis
You're thinking wrong. The only thing that is relevant is DPS.
shes on the right track actually, defenders cut alot of dps from missile, therefore turrets will always have higher dps which is also instantaneous. |
Boz Well
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Posted - 2008.06.11 16:57:00 -
[9]
Originally by: kor anon
Originally by: Epidemis
You're thinking wrong. The only thing that is relevant is DPS.
shes on the right track actually, defenders cut alot of dps from missile, therefore turrets will always have higher dps which is also instantaneous.
They're both right. You're wrong to think that turrets ALWAYS have a higher effective DPS. The answer is it just depends. Missiles can change damage type and they never miss, and these things affect the effective DPS. Missiles do suffer from defenders though, as pointed out. Turrets miss, largely are stuck with whatever damage type(s) they deal, but hit instantly. There's no weapon system that's always better.
The advantage to a missile boat is you can take your Raven anywhere and do just fine on the missions. The same isn't quite as true for say an Amarr ship, as it will eat up Sansha/Blood missions, but won't have quite the same punch against Angels.
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Boz Well
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Posted - 2008.06.11 16:57:00 -
[10]
Originally by: kor anon
Originally by: Epidemis
You're thinking wrong. The only thing that is relevant is DPS.
shes on the right track actually, defenders cut alot of dps from missile, therefore turrets will always have higher dps which is also instantaneous.
They're both right. You're wrong to think that turrets ALWAYS have a higher effective DPS. The answer is it just depends. Missiles can change damage type and they never miss, and these things affect the effective DPS. Missiles do suffer from defenders though, as pointed out. Turrets miss, largely are stuck with whatever damage type(s) they deal, but hit instantly. There's no weapon system that's always better.
The advantage to a missile boat is you can take your Raven anywhere and do just fine on the missions. The same isn't quite as true for say an Amarr ship, as it will eat up Sansha/Blood missions, but won't have quite the same punch against Angels. |
ZW Dewitt
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Posted - 2008.06.11 17:19:00 -
[11]
Torps don't suffer from the defender issue. You will have to use Javelin torps for some rats though and even then the range isn't all that great. |
Titsy Normous
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Posted - 2008.06.11 17:27:00 -
[12]
Ok so i should be looking for max DPS. I would like to do missions for caldari so i'm tempted to go for a rohk but i think that a domi with sentury drones might be the winner here, Good tank, range & damage. Will be a lot of training though  |
Liang Nuren
Perkone
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Posted - 2008.06.11 17:31:00 -
[13]
Originally by: ****y Normous
Ok so i should be looking for max DPS. I would like to do missions for caldari so i'm tempted to go for a rohk but i think that a domi with sentury drones might be the winner here, Good tank, range & damage. Will be a lot of training though
My T2 fit sentry domi is roughly equivalent to a faction fit Raven (slightly better). I suspect that with Gal BS5 and T2 Lg Hybrids I'd be able to thoroughly trounce my Raven (possibly ascending to faction fit CNR/Golem realms).
The Sentry domi is very good - but best of all, it's very cheap.
-Liang
--
It was an honor to participate in the Insurgency campaign in Branch. o7 to all involved. |
schurem
Silver Snake Enterprise
Brutally Clever Empire
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Posted - 2008.06.11 17:33:00 -
[14]
drones are not very good at missions for two reasons:
on some, not all, but enough to be inconvenient of the lvl4 missions, releasing drones will draw massive agression from all the rats in a deadspace pocket. This means you will either loose your drone squad, or possibly worse, get way more rats on you than your tank can handle. Not a good place to be in.
drones show up on scanners. they make you about five times as easy to scan down, opening you up for all kinds of griefage. not good either.
so. drones on missions? only as a last resort to get a scrambler frig off your back.
However, I still think EvE needs more and better tactical warning sounds.
<<<< No Boundaries, No Fences, Fly Free Or Die Trying >>>>
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Xio2
The Collective
Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2008.06.11 17:34:00 -
[15]
Mega.
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Xio2 |
Amastat
Omegatech
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Posted - 2008.06.11 17:35:00 -
[16]
You want max DPS - however you also want to be able to choose damage types, and have proper range.
Even, in example, you had a very high-dps ship - like a Megathron or w/e - it would suck horrible in missions because of the bad range, and the inability to use MWD. It also cannot do Explosive/EM.
The Ravens are the ideal choice still - the CNR is the best of all I think. Mine does 456dps with missiles alone ATM, and I could go to 555 dps with missiles if I upgraded to Caldari Navy launchers/BCU's. Note that this is missiles alone, another 109-134 DPS I get from drones, depending on which ones I use.
It has up to 100km effective killing range, and tanks incredibly well.
____________________
"All warfare is based on deception... we must seem unable...seem inactive...and crush him " - Sun Tzu |
Titsy Normous
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Posted - 2008.06.12 08:29:00 -
[17]
Ok i've decided to train for the domi and go with a shield tanked setup with 350mm rails, 3 damage mods & Sentury Drones
With T2 gear it will put out over 800dps but depends on the range the rats are orbiting. Will need to test it though as It lacks a webber which might make hitting the cruisers hard and its tank isnt amazing so might have trouble. I guess the general tactic will be to take out the heavy hitting npc's as fast as possible |
Raniss
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Posted - 2008.06.12 09:38:00 -
[18]
Really, i used to do missions in a fully t2 fit raven. But then i switched to a t2 sentry domi, and i never ever have looked back.
Best part must be the fact that if your really lazy, you can do a perma dual rep on the domi, get aggro, drones out, go afk and come back with a finished mission.
Really, people that think raven is a good choice for missions just suck. |
Bald Rikk
The Legendary Fleet
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Posted - 2008.06.12 10:04:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Raniss
Really, i used to do missions in a fully t2 fit raven. But then i switched to a t2 sentry domi, and i never ever have looked back.
Best part must be the fact that if your really lazy, you can do a perma dual rep on the domi, get aggro, drones out, go afk and come back with a finished mission.
Really, people that think raven is a good choice for missions just suck.
The raven IS a good choice for most people, those are people who are not specced in the ships that are a better choice. Personally I use a CNR when I am doind other stuff and the mission on the second PC. But when I want fun in a mission I take the Mach.
Your post was going well until the last line. Now everyone who reads it will just (correctly) think you are an idiot.
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Slade Hoo
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Posted - 2008.06.12 10:13:00 -
[20]
You can fit an abaddon or paladin for 950 turret dps with pulse + drones or 800 dps with scorch crystals, all with T2 fit...lacks a little tank, but should be no problem at all. I think that in terms of dps, Pulse Lasers are superior to all other weapons in missions if you got the right enemies (Blood/Sansha/Drone, which is the case at amarr agents) cause they are the only shortrange weapon that has enough range to be used in missions and tracks cruisers much better than cruise missiles/longrange turrets as well as delivering instant damage.
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Xionex
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Posted - 2008.06.12 10:26:00 -
[21]
There is one ship no one has said anything about in this thread...If we are including faction battleships like the Macharel then you must also include the Nightmare in the discussion. The Nightmare has a problem against Angels, but against other enemies with the right skills it wins.
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Turismo
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Posted - 2008.06.12 10:30:00 -
[22]
Originally by: schurem
drones are not very good at missions for two reasons:
on some, not all, but enough to be inconvenient of the lvl4 missions, releasing drones will draw massive agression from all the rats in a deadspace pocket. This means you will either loose your drone squad, or possibly worse, get way more rats on you than your tank can handle. Not a good place to be in.
drones show up on scanners. they make you about five times as easy to scan down, opening you up for all kinds of griefage. not good either.
so. drones on missions? only as a last resort to get a scrambler frig off your back.
Your reasons are valid, but are not issues for a T2 fitted sentry Domi.
1. You want to pull agro as fast as possible - you can tank virtually anything and need agro before deploying.
2. Our honourable oppenents (not griefers) who are probing for mission runners aren't particularly interested when they see 5 sentry drones. They warp in on my CNR and Kronos, but not once on the Domi.
A couple of comments:
The only problem with drones for a Domi pilot are the reinforcement waves that force you to recall your drones.
Defenders are less effective when you are close to a rat. This means the effect is similar to fall-off for a turret user. Nothing to complain about anyway, you'll only lose a few crusies per rat. When you compare putting up with defenders to changing ammo depending on range and often fighting with sub-optimal ammo while maneuvering to limit transversal the Raven still gets a very good deal. Raw DPS is not the whole picture.
I fly both CNR and Domi on seprate accounts and think CNR is probably faster, but not if you need to go afk. CNR is amazing, but I probably would complete more missions in the Domi if grinding for an evening.
(luckily I can fly them together - magic.)
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Edriahn
Bulgarian Mafia Squad
Sons of Tangra
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Posted - 2008.06.12 10:34:00 -
[23]
Well, cruise raven is pretty pathetic mission boat. My alt flies it and it's undertanked and underpowered. My dominix do a lot better. Actually dominix has more DPS then the CNR - 450 DPS only from drones and tanks better. Sorry, but the legend of the raven is over...
Golem could be a good mission runner with torpedoes, but need T2 rigs and a lot of faction.
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Gneeznow
North Eastern Swat
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.06.12 10:41:00 -
[24]
I've been using a 3x magstab rokh with caldari battleship 3 and large hybrid 4 and it gets the job done but its kinda sucky, has trouble with cap even with 3x ccc
Dominix looks to be the clear winner here if you can use the t2 heavies / sentries |
Gimpb
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Posted - 2008.06.12 10:45:00 -
[25]
Originally by: schurem
drones are not very good at missions for two reasons:
on some, not all, but enough to be inconvenient of the lvl4 missions, releasing drones will draw massive agression from all the rats in a deadspace pocket. This means you will either loose your drone squad, or possibly worse, get way more rats on you than your tank can handle. Not a good place to be in.
drones show up on scanners. they make you about five times as easy to scan down, opening you up for all kinds of griefage. not good either.
so. drones on missions? only as a last resort to get a scrambler frig off your back.
I think you're barking up the wrong tree there as they're talking about sentries, but a little question I've had along these lines for a while...
Regular drones are easy to scan down because of their MWD, sentry drones only move at 1 m/s... so logically one wouldn't think they have an MWD to make scanning easier, is that indeed the case? |
Raniss
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Posted - 2008.06.12 10:50:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Bald Rikk
Originally by: Raniss
Really, i used to do missions in a fully t2 fit raven. But then i switched to a t2 sentry domi, and i never ever have looked back.
Best part must be the fact that if your really lazy, you can do a perma dual rep on the domi, get aggro, drones out, go afk and come back with a finished mission.
Really, people that think raven is a good choice for missions just suck.
The raven IS a good choice for most people, those are people who are not specced in the ships that are a better choice. Personally I use a CNR when I am doind other stuff and the mission on the second PC. But when I want fun in a mission I take the Mach.
Your post was going well until the last line. Now everyone who reads it will just (correctly) think you are an idiot.
And? Op asked about fastest mission ship, and thats DEFINATELY not going to be a raven (or even cnr). |
Arana Tellen
The Blackguard Wolves
Hydra Alliance
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Posted - 2008.06.12 11:16:00 -
[27]
8x 425mm railgun II (Federation faction antimatter)
1x XL SB II
2x Mission specific hardners
2x Cap recharger II
1x Shadow serpentis tracking computer (tracking) (35-40 million isk)
3x Magnetic field stab II (or faction)
2x Power diagnostic system II
5x Valkarie II
3x CCC I
3-5% Hardwirings for all turret damage, large hybrid damage, cap recharge, cap amount, tracking
Low grade crystal set if you have the isk but not really needed.
Tracking of a mega, more damage than a mega with 2 mag stabs, 54km optimal with antimatter (CB V).
---------------------------------
Oh noes!
Originally by: CCP Greyscale
*moderated - mother abuse - Mitnal*
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Crellion
Art of War
Cruel Intentions
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Posted - 2008.06.12 11:57:00 -
[28]
Rokh looks ok but what does it do with multiple cruisers at close range? I imagine that would take ages.
Kronos probably beats it for speed I think and the speed missioning Kronos/Navy Mega set ups use 3xmfs anyway so they do more damage. Still if you have Caldari BS 5 and dont have Gallente BS5 or Ammar BS5 I guess Rokh is cool. |
Edriahn
Bulgarian Mafia Squad
Sons of Tangra
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Posted - 2008.06.12 12:05:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Arana Tellen
Tracking of a mega, more damage than a mega with 2 mag stabs, 54km optimal with antimatter (CB V).
Mate, thank, you, I never laughed so much in my life. Every line in your post is completely wrong. Good wrok. |
Kusha'an
RuffRyders
Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2008.06.12 12:39:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Kusha''an on 12/06/2008 12:40:23
Originally by: Arana Tellen
8x 425mm railgun II (Federation faction antimatter)
1x XL SB II
2x Mission specific hardners
2x Cap recharger II
1x Shadow serpentis tracking computer (tracking) (35-40 million isk)
3x Magnetic field stab II (or faction)
2x Power diagnostic system II
5x Valkarie II
3x CCC I
3-5% Hardwirings for all turret damage, large hybrid damage, cap recharge, cap amount, tracking
Low grade crystal set if you have the isk but not really needed.
Tracking of a mega, more damage than a mega with 2 mag stabs, 54km optimal with antimatter (CB V).
WTB: Megathron with 8 turret hardpoints
I'm still waiting for Chesty McJubblies to give an opinion. 
----
What part of "shorn't" do you not understand? |
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