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Tenacha Khan
Muchacho's
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Posted - 2008.06.12 08:51:00 -
[31]
What does FW have over Standard pvp?
Firstly, no matter what profession you take in eve with regards to pvp, there is no constant stream of willing enemies, in FW everyone flagged for it obviousley wants to be there and will fight it out.
Keano, you seem to take enjoyment out of making isk, and look at that as your main reward instead of the actual gameplay. You mentioned previousley 'pretend wars' and getting nothing out of it, well personally I perfer to do that for fun compared to being bored and doing it for pretend money:)
Through my time in eve, I have been involved in all types of pvp, but I must say that this so far has been refreshingly good. |
Kuolematon
Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United
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Posted - 2008.06.12 08:54:00 -
[32]
 Originally by: killerkeano
hense where I said "free war targets???? IDIOT
"I see your reply and raise for one IDIOT-card"
When your proven being wrong in internets, draw card IDIOT to rebel intelligent discussion |
Furb Killer
USC Militia
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Posted - 2008.06.12 09:05:00 -
[33]
Edited by: Furb Killer on 12/06/2008 09:05:24
Isnt fun good enough? Thousands of wartargets, no crappy 0.0 politics, near high sec market, you fight people who want to fight (sorry never seen fun in ganking unarmed hauler), you got the missions/plexes which only allow smaller ships, no one tells you what to do (unless in fleet of course), etc.
btw, lol @ pirates who thought many easy targets would come to low sec. |
Murtank
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Posted - 2008.06.12 09:12:00 -
[34]
dont like it ? dont play
whats so hard  |
Sakotan Katara
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Posted - 2008.06.12 09:15:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Takashima Gara
your all a bunch of tossers espically that keano guy ^_^ FW sucks IMO i never did like RP much
Considering you RP every day you play Eve thats a pretty dumb statement. |
Xennith
Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2008.06.12 09:19:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Rodj Blake
So then, flying against opponents fitted for PvP in an RP context is just pretend fighting, but camping gates and ganking lone haulers is real PvP.
I guess that's where I've been going wrong all this time.
You and me both mate. As soon as PvP involves pretending to be someone who you are not it is not real pvp. To be any good at pvp you have to call each other noobs. got it. |
Ellyra
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2008.06.12 09:45:00 -
[37]
This is getting a little boring. before the patch we got the "FW fails before it even started" threads and now after a very smooth and successful patch imo we get the "FW sucks" threads.
There's so many things to do for fun in this game, and for me these last two days have been the best in game so far.
Fleet Ops, losing ships and trying not to get podded, surviving mayhem fights in a little T1 frig or cuiser and walking away with a hold full of T2 loot :)
FW is not for everyone, I think CCP knew that will be the case when they designed it. but for a lot of people it's proving to be fun fun fun
____________________________________________
Start every day with a smile and get it over with |
Pedro Snachez
24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2008.06.12 09:47:00 -
[38]
Monetarily there's not much to gain except loot like normal piracy, but it sure is a hell of a lot of fun. I play Eve to play Eve, not to pinch my ISK or worry about blowing up. Everyone involved is there to capture the objectives, so everybody's mindset is the same. Aggressive. Log on, join up in a small gang, smash some people's faces in. Pure and simple.
Instead of dancing around playing dock/undock games with normal wartargets who aren't willing to lose ISK, you have to be out in space playing aggressively to make gains. The gain is just in fun instead of in ISK. That said, I've never had more fun in Eve than I have tonight. It is a game, right?
And I'm a Caldari flying Gallente and Minmatar ships, so I'm definitely not in it for the RP factor.
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Astria Tiphareth
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Posted - 2008.06.12 09:55:00 -
[39]
Ok, Sceptical (sorry, couldn't resist)
Well, it's all about how you look at it. Firstly, you're making an assumption that there aren't many roleplayers. It's shades of grey and more than you might think have some attachment to their starting faction.
Secondly, it's about introducing people to PvP. FW offers larger fleets, slightly more support than you'd get going at it solo, and a place to do so without security hits.
A cunning alliance will place people in the militias or even detach entire corps to it, to lead by example and then recruit from the pool of newly-hardened PvPers.
Thirdly, it's not glorified level 4 missions at all. You can mission in FW, but the meat of the game is capture the flag, and that's pretty much all PvP beyond the odd irritating/handy NPC.
What do you define as 'real PvP'? To me, real PvP is people shooting each other. If you're looking to make ISK from it, that's not PvP, that's piracy on the high... spaces. Nothing wrong with it, but it's a difference.
It's also a vast vast change for players engaged in it. A pirate who isn't yet -5 can go anywhere in high-sec. A FW player cannot go to opposing faction's high-sec at all and expect to survive for long.
Finally, why should anyone risk a ship for anything? It's all about whether you're risk averse or not. If your view of PvP is not risking your ship, gate-camping and pew-pewing easy targets that can't shoot back (and it might not be, I'm just inferring from your post) then that's not really PvP. PvP is where one group meets another group, both fight, and skill, tactics, and modules determines the outcome, and if you're lucky, people say 'good fight' afterwards.
___
My views may not represent those of my corporation or alliance, which is why I never get invited to those diplomatic parties... |
Astria Tiphareth
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Posted - 2008.06.12 10:00:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Pedro Snachez
Monetarily there's not much to gain except loot like normal piracy, but it sure is a hell of a lot of fun. I play Eve to play Eve, not to pinch my ISK or worry about blowing up. Everyone involved is there to capture the objectives, so everybody's mindset is the same. Aggressive. Log on, join up in a small gang, smash some people's faces in. Pure and simple.
And in this, CCP have achieved exactly what they set out to do. Introduce small fleet PvP that is quick and simple (the FPS of PvP I suppose), gets people into PvP, doesn't risk too much, and above all, has fun instead of spending four hours hunting targets that log off or dock the moment you're in local.
The longevity aspect that only time will tell is how people afford this fun. On that we really can't yet comment.
___
My views may not represent those of my corporation or alliance, which is why I never get invited to those diplomatic parties... |
Del Narveux
Dukes of Hazard
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Posted - 2008.06.12 10:11:00 -
[41]
From what (admittedy little) I've seen of FW so far they're going to have to boost it considerably, and throw in a bunch of rules, for it to really have much of a long term popularity. Sure its big now, cause its right after the patch but the test will be how many are still doing it 3-6 months from now. The basic problem I see with it is funcionally, it doesnt offer much more than Red/Blue alliances already did so those who wanted that style of 'consentual pvp anywhere' were already doing it.
Some suggestions I would make, to encourage the more casual, non pvp focused crowd to do it which is apparently CCP's intention according to devblogs:
-Disallow 'legal' podding so team hisec wont have as much risk of losing their precious +5s. Someone could still do it, but it would come with a sec hit per any other podding outside of .0 or empire war.
-SERIOUS faction item rewards. I'm talking State Raven territory here. Since FW inherently involves real ships getting blown up a lot, for anyone to do it as more than an occasional thing to let off steam it needs to be a viable alternative to grinding L4's all day in highsec. Otherwise itll meet the same fate as L5 did, i.e. weak rewards compared to the cost of a ship means one makes more grinding lower-level but safer missions.
-Restrict the wardec-flagging to only be active in the contested areas (unless they changed it being in a militia flags you to the other side anywhere in space). This way miners could go to the warzones and have some fun, then go back to their regular stuff. Anyone whos ever been in a war with miners on either side knows their strategy is dock/log first, ask questions later and a lot of hisec corps have at least some miners.
-Redo the levels for the mission, specifically break levels 3 and 4 into several new levels to account for how uber t2 cruisers and up are compared to t1 counterparts (e.g. level 3 should not allow t2 cruisers). More people would do it if they could show up in cruisers or BS and not worry about getting pwnt by a bunch of skilled PVPers in t2 ships.
Basically, CCP stated they want it to be a middle-of-the-road option between living in hi sec and never fighting wars, and the wardec/.0 alliance thing where theres always bad guys everywhere. So they need to do this, instead of combining the negatives of both playstyles (weak rewards of hisec and constant threat of .0 and wardecs) and hoping theres enough roleplayers to maintain interest. |
Farrellus Cameron
Sturmgrenadier Inc
Cosmic Anomalies
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Posted - 2008.06.12 10:13:00 -
[42]
The whole point is that it's a middle ground between humping in empire and full 0.0 alliance warfare. There are TONS of corporations and alliances who specifically choose to avoid the territorial 0.0 alliance warfare and simply go into 0.0 or low sec for pew pew. Hundreds of pvpers jump into 0.0 and low sec with tech2 and faction ships for the sole purpose of pew pew and no other reward then getting a few kills and calling themselves l33t.
Faction warfare is not meant to be something everyone wants to do. It's specifically for people who want pvp without having to belong to a player corp and/or alliance and all the drama/politics that can entail. It's for people who want to be able to log on and join up with a random group of people for pew pew without any strings attached. No POS warfare, no whiny alliance or corp mails about lack of participation or carebearing, no drama with blues & reds and who stabbed who in the back. Just straight up log in and fight. I think it's pretty brilliant actually.
I have no interest in doing it because I have access to alliance level fights in 0.0. I prefer actually working for specific alliance goals instead of just mindless pvp. But a huge amount of people in this game just want to pvp, and don't care about any actual objective, so I can see why people would love something like this. It's especially good for more casual players who just want to log in every so often and not have to worry about their corp or alliance collapsing while they are gone. |
ShardowRhino
Legion 0f The Damned
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Posted - 2008.06.12 10:17:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Lord WarATron
A lot of people are having fun because thats all ships are pretty much used for. Very few people are playing FW for isk or rewards, most are playing for fun rather than sit mining or shooting npc's all day.
wow, someone beat me to it! no one said to risk your most expensive ship for FW. if you saw anything ive posted in ive mentioned FW = cheap and easily sustainable pvp. get in a frig,cruiser or anything else your willing to risk to have a good time.
if your looking for a reward beyond having a good time flying around shooting at other players flying around out tohave a good time, go do l4s or mine. if youdont want to camp, dont frakin camp! if you dont want to risk your expensive ship your just going to shine in the hangar and never use, DONT USE IT!
if you want to get out and meet players you would have never said hi to before FW and shoot others you would have never had the pleasure of f1-fXing ever...go get in a cheap ship and join up with a group or grab a mission and corpies.
it sounds like a lot of people were having fun. hell i had fun taking on 20 unclean heathens alone in my Kestrel,pounding on a crow for 20mins before his friends came to help him. i got podded, i shelled out isk to upgrade the new clone. i didn't cry, i lolled and wished i had more time to play what eve should have been from the start.
is it a big fake war? well the story has the empires hating on each other and talk about wars past so eventually one is going to start up. fw is those wars erupting and giving the players to take part in the story line of eve,not of random pilot #10181898183734589272 that no one gives 2 shakes about.
dont like it? dont do it and stfu and move along. its like people sitting around crying about mining when they themselves dont mine. dont like mining? stfu and move along and find what you want to do in eve. CCP has not forced anyone into a militia last i checked. im not forced to do transport missions so i have no reason to whine about them,maybe ive been wrong all this time. maybe i should protest ccp ever adding transport missions and ever adding new ones. damn you ccp!! damn you for making me o transport missions!
oh wait..... |
FlameGlow
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2008.06.12 10:24:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Del Narveux
-Restrict the wardec-flagging to only be active in the contested areas (unless they changed it being in a militia flags you to the other side anywhere in space). This way miners could go to the warzones and have some fun, then go back to their regular stuff. Anyone whos ever been in a war with miners on either side knows their strategy is dock/log first, ask questions later and a lot of hisec corps have at least some miners.
Basically, CCP stated they want it to be a middle-of-the-road option between living in hi sec and never fighting wars, and the wardec/.0 alliance thing where theres always bad guys everywhere. So they need to do this, instead of combining the negatives of both playstyles (weak rewards of hisec and constant threat of .0 and wardecs) and hoping theres enough roleplayers to maintain interest.
Maybe you didn't know but militiamen entering hostile faction's highsec will get Navy ships after his hide.
While they aren't instantdeath, they are no pushovers as well - running through highsec is possible, but if you plan getting involved in a fight with militia on their territory you'll be at quite a disadvantage. |
Butter Dog
The Littlest Hobos
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Posted - 2008.06.12 10:33:00 -
[45]
So far, really good fun.
Thats why I play this computer game, so anything else seems trivial.
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Terror Rising
Death Of Fallen Angels
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Posted - 2008.06.12 10:52:00 -
[46]
If we need to question why we want to shoot stuff for the sake of it, then we are playing the wrong game.
There is no profit in anything in this game as it is all just virtual numbers. It just gives you a nice buzz when you get into hull and they are in hull too, then you win. Everyone in FW is doing it for that reason and the obvious yarrage only.
Having the ships near the front line, having better logistics and no 0.0 politics and "compulsary" operations is why I am doing it.
I then log in my alts and farm for a bit for more money to carry on again. Simple, not sure where the question about what the gain is, in reality you don't "really" gain anything from being in 0.0 PVP either.
Don;t get me wrong, I like "real" PVP (whatever you choose to call it), but FW is much more accessible and less dull in alot of respects (but yes less exciting in others). |
Andrue
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Posted - 2008.06.12 12:24:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Del Narveux
Some suggestions I would make, to encourage the more casual, non pvp focused crowd to do it which is apparently CCP's intention according to devblogs:
-Disallow 'legal' podding so team hisec wont have as much risk of losing their precious +5s. Someone could still do it, but it would come with a sec hit per any other podding outside of .0 or empire war.
Get a jumpclone. FW in a naked clone (or one with +2s), keep +5s in your mission clone.
Quote:
-SERIOUS faction item rewards. I'm talking State Raven territory here. Since FW inherently involves real ships getting blown up a lot, for anyone to do it as more than an occasional thing to let off steam it needs to be a viable alternative to grinding L4's all day in highsec. Otherwise itll meet the same fate as L5 did, i.e. weak rewards compared to the cost of a ship means one makes more grinding lower-level but safer missions.
The 'reward' is fun. If you won't PvP without being paid then it's a job.
Quote:
-Restrict the wardec-flagging to only be active in the contested areas (unless they changed it being in a militia flags you to the other side anywhere in space). This way miners could go to the warzones and have some fun, then go back to their regular stuff. Anyone whos ever been in a war with miners on either side knows their strategy is dock/log first, ask questions later and a lot of hisec corps have at least some miners.
Nah. The risks in your own faction's high-sec are pretty small. Just keep an eye on local and don't be a jackass.
Quote:
-Redo the levels for the mission, specifically break levels 3 and 4 into several new levels to account for how uber t2 cruisers and up are compared to t1 counterparts (e.g. level 3 should not allow t2 cruisers). More people would do it if they could show up in cruisers or BS and not worry about getting pwnt by a bunch of skilled PVPers in t2 ships.
Perhaps but tbh I think my earlier response about rewards covers this.
FW is about having fun by engaging in consensual combat when you want, where you want with a minimum of hassle and inconvenience. IMO the best way to FW is to alternate between FW and Isking using jumpclones. A retreat to high-sec will take you mostly out of harm's way.
--
(Sarcastic mission running veteran, 4+ years)
[Brackley, UK]
My budgie can say "ploppy bottom". You have been warned. |
Aran Makor
Greed Incorporated
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Posted - 2008.06.12 12:27:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Delichon
Originally by: killerkeano
But unless i'm mistaken pretend pilots are risking their pretend ships and fittings for pretend wars...
No, you'r not mistaken, working as intended.
"you'r".....seriously?
Why I lost faith in humanity |
stinkxfinger
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Posted - 2008.06.15 04:09:00 -
[49]
You people just don't get it, this is a dream come true. Because there are so many of you lame nubs ratting and farming isk and mining and whatever other stupid time consuming lame activity you seem to enjoy, you forget that there are just as many of us out here who like to shoot things just for the sake of shooting them.
Faction warfare is an ongoing war that cost you nothing. Always provides nubs to shoot and the only people who get shot are the ones that choose to participate. If you do not want to shoot or be shot, then PLUG YOUR PIE HOLE! and if you do. SIGN UP NUBS!
CCP could not have had a better idea....
http://www.battleclinic.com/eve_online/pk/view/player-stinkxfinger-kills.html
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Kyra Felann
Noctis Fleet Technologies
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Posted - 2008.06.15 04:13:00 -
[50]
Fun.
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Celestal
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Posted - 2008.06.15 04:15:00 -
[51]
maybe the church should stick to gate camping in systems where the through traffic does not shoot back ?.
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R1ck James
Acme Demolition
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Posted - 2008.06.15 04:45:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Lord WarATron
A lot of people are having fun because thats all ships are pretty much used for. Very few people are playing FW for isk or rewards, most are playing for fun rather than sit mining or shooting npc's all day.
This.
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Kylegar
Dawn of Fire
imPure.
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Posted - 2008.06.15 04:51:00 -
[53]
Originally by: killerkeano
But unless i'm mistaken people are risking there ships and fittings for "pretend" wars...
I'm not sure whether this line is a joke or not.
Eve is a PvP game, You blow stuff up. At its core, The market is a PvP battleground, probably more frantic than a 200 person fleetbattle.
So...Theres a problem with adding MORE PvP into a PvP game?
They arent forcing you to go into lowsec and lose your ship, so, why are complaining?
--
Originally by: CCP Ginger
No sex changes.
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Oliver Everett
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Posted - 2008.06.15 08:02:00 -
[54]
Originally by: killerkeano
OK call me sceptical...
...........
I'm really not trying to create a stir, more trying to get my head around it and think.. why would i risk a ship for a bullcr*p cause over fighting for space/alliance/contract/defend allies ?
R.I.P Tiller
On the flipside IF Factional Warfare did provide substantial rewards for taking part, would there not be an outcry from 0.0 sovereignty holders about the time/effort risk/reward involved.
The promise of pvp and 0.0 riches is the main reason most people join alliances and spend hours at bubble camps and POS takedowns (::yawn) to defend their space, if people can get their PvP kicks in empire (close to markets, easy to get cheap replacement ships) and get isk or other substancial rewards at the same time why would you bother with 0.0 ?
ATM its a fun and commitment free way to get some pew pew, if you want rewards with your pew pew you'll still need to go to 0.0
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
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Posted - 2008.06.15 08:05:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Kylegar
Originally by: killerkeano
But unless i'm mistaken people are risking there ships and fittings for "pretend" wars...
I'm not sure whether this line is a joke or not.
Eve is a PvP game, You blow stuff up. At its core, The market is a PvP battleground, probably more frantic than a 200 person fleetbattle.
So...Theres a problem with adding MORE PvP into a PvP game?
They arent forcing you to go into lowsec and lose your ship, so, why are complaining?
I think he is commenting on the fact that this is a game about pertend space ships.
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