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Farrqua
Turbo Mining Inc.
   |
Posted - 2008.06.12 18:47:00 -
[31]
Does everyone know how to help themselves with lag? This might be second nature for the experienced guys but for the n00bs that has seen nothing out side of a mining laser or a rat spawn this might help a bit.
-turn off all effects
-turn off turrets
-turn off the damn music crap/sound effects.
-create an overview that shows targets only and get rid of the background stuff. All you want to see is the very simple boxes of your targets. Nothing else. No flashy flashy or wanted crap, just the box.
-if you are on coms, drop gang. You can run a 100 man fleet on coms easily without being in a gang. It simple if you are lagged out the gang bonuses are not going to help you anyway.
-click show brackets after you load grid. Brackets off before you get there.
-check your settings in your graphics. turn off what you can. FPS is important.
-Turn off all your "Binky" notifications like wallet, mail, corp chat etc.
-try scrolling in and out to see what view helps your fps. Usually close in works, but the results are varied.
ctrl+alt+shift+M brings up your FPS monitor and when you change your setting you can see if your FPS improves. As you go through and make little changes you can use this to monitor what works and what does not.
There are other tricks but this should get the new guys started.
Oh yea, if your FC or scout insists on typing commands..run find some one that has comms. It will be much better and you will find your self loosing less ships.
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touchvill
The Pikey Rebellion II
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Posted - 2008.06.12 18:48:00 -
[32]
 Originally by: Joe Starbreaker
Originally by: touchvill
It's purely the lag generated like as I type there is a fight amongst 193 pilots.
Maybe the alt-tabbing is part of your problem.
If you don't like the blob, why don't you recruit a small group and go visit other systems? There are plenty of them.
I am not in the battle, I am 7 jumps away and I feel the lag.
I am recruiting a small force and we will be doing our own ops.
However I don't care about people blobbing to the point the servers can handle it. Right now they can't though that's my problem with it.
----------
FUNSICLES |
Ildord
|
Posted - 2008.06.12 18:56:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Kneebone
The only way to fix is it basically redesign the game from top to bottom using modern equipment and code that isn't 5 years out of date.
Man, their equipment is on the supercomputers top-500 list of the world. They have the fastest storage system available. They have been on 64-bit clustering server platform for couple years now. They are using some of the best frameworks on the application side (stackless python is screaming fast while still being dynamic and light to maintain). The client utilizes your hardware better than the average games do.
Now, if you have some actual knowledge instead of just being lame troll, please do advise the CCP developers. I am sure they will take any actually useful and constructive piece of feedback and technical tip you can ever produce them, and will gratefully make it up for you.
If you can't, shut the duck up and get lost. 
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Kneebone
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Posted - 2008.06.12 19:24:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Ildord
Originally by: Kneebone
The only way to fix is it basically redesign the game from top to bottom using modern equipment and code that isn't 5 years out of date.
Man, their equipment is on the supercomputers top-500 list of the world. They have the fastest storage system available. They have been on 64-bit clustering server platform for couple years now. They are using some of the best frameworks on the application side (stackless python is screaming fast while still being dynamic and light to maintain). The client utilizes your hardware better than the average games do.
Now, if you have some actual knowledge instead of just being lame troll, please do advise the CCP developers. I am sure they will take any actually useful and constructive piece of feedback and technical tip you can ever produce them, and will gratefully make it up for you.
If you can't, shut the duck up and get lost.
Their equipment that was so inovative in 2006 is now dated in 2008. Yes they took some great steps BACK THEN, but its time to start looking ahead. In the commercial server/computing industry hardware has about an 18 to 24 month lifespan. They are in that 6 month window of good to bad right now. Even if the hardware itself is cutting edge, then it is a capacity issue. They simpley cannot keep up with their user base and it sufffers for it.
CCP wants to grow their customer base. Fine. But you need to grow with it. Perhaps it is time that CCP considered adding a second cluster... |
Higgs Foton
Volition Cult
The Volition Cult
|
Posted - 2008.06.12 19:33:00 -
[35]
Actually, with all this FW going on it is actually somewhat quiter in 0.0. Ah, the rest is really comforting. :) I like FW! |
Abdul Waheed
|
Posted - 2008.06.12 22:48:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Kneebone
The problem is not the 100+ blobs, the problem is **** poor programming and massively underpowered/overtaxed servers. The only way to fix is it basically redesign the game from top to bottom using modern equipment and code that isn't 5 years out of date.
Do you understand anything about algorithms or programming? You can't always fix things by throwing hardware at it. Let me give you an exmple,
You mention 100 man blobs.
Now each craft has a vector wich consists of points in 3d space and a direction. Assuming you use 16 bit numbers to represent x,y,z co-ords, an 8 bit number to represent velocity
That gives at least 7 bytes of data that your ship needs to
***transmit to everyone else who can see you****
Now, everyone elses ship must also trasmit their data to
**everyone elses ship***
So worst case scenario is you have
almost 100 squared pieces of data (ships dont need to trasmit to themeselves) that need to be transmited in real time.
So you have 10000 * 7 bytes = 70000, or 70K worth.
Assuming you need to update this at least 4 times a second, to prevent jery updates of ships you get 280K per second that
**everyones pc must be able to handle**
Now given that a lot of people playing the game have crappy PC, or crappy Internet connection, what happens it that a few of those PC connections get booged down with data.
**now everyone else PC must WAIT*** for the slow PC.
The net result is massive, massive lag!
Programmers try to put predictive algorithms in to guess where a ship/char will be to cut down on the amount of data that needs sending, but they often get it wrong.
***this is when you see char/ships "warp" around***
when the **correct** data finally arrives, the server puts it in its final position, hence warping the char.
Welcome to the world of MMO!
Until everyone had fiber optic connections and fast PC, lag is never going to go away. As you can see from the above the lag had nothig to do with the servers, but more to do with the
*exponential complexity** of having more and more people in one place, combined with users who have slower PCs. Buying a new server would do ****Nothing*** to fix this parcitular case of lag.
Now of course there are cases of real server lag, but people need to get their facts straight, more often than not its not the servers. |
Patch86
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Atlas Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.06.12 22:58:00 -
[37]
Originally by: touchvill
Originally by: Joe Starbreaker
Originally by: touchvill
It's purely the lag generated like as I type there is a fight amongst 193 pilots.
Maybe the alt-tabbing is part of your problem.
If you don't like the blob, why don't you recruit a small group and go visit other systems? There are plenty of them.
I am not in the battle, I am 7 jumps away and I feel the lag.
I am recruiting a small force and we will be doing our own ops.
However I don't care about people blobbing to the point the servers can handle it. Right now they can't though that's my problem with it.
Just so you know, in-game geography has nothing to do with which systems are on which nodes. One node might have 20 systems on, but theres no reason why they'll be 20 systems all sat next to each other. Its just as likely to be 20 systems from anywhere in the game universe.
For all you know, your system is lagging out because of a fight going on out in 0.0 between Goons and Smash, and not from the battle going on a couple of systems over.
------
Originally by: Dark Shikari
The problem with killing Jesus is he always just respawns 3 days later anyways. |
Pasha Cracken
Thanos and Killjoy Productions
|
Posted - 2008.06.13 00:18:00 -
[38]
stop whining
-----
|
Vanessa Vale
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Posted - 2008.06.13 00:25:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Abdul Waheed
Do you understand anything about algorithms or programming? You can't always fix things by throwing hardware at it. Let me give you an exmple,
Hrmm... lets see what you follow on with.
Originally by: Abdul Waheed
**everyones pc must be able to handle**
Now given that a lot of people playing the game have crappy PC, or crappy Internet connection, what happens it that a few of those PC connections get booged down with data.
**now everyone else PC must WAIT*** for the slow PC.
The net result is massive, massive lag!
You are absolutely and completely wrong or stuck in the stone age of multiplaying. Apparently its you who doesn't understand how things work, and not the poster you were repying to. 
Minmatar Boost Brigade |
Alex Under
0utbreak
|
Posted - 2008.06.13 02:10:00 -
[40]
Originally by: touchvill
Because I am in faction warfare.
Just because I am doing FW, doesn't mean I have to share the blob mentallity.
You've obviously never PvPed in 0.0 |
Corstaad
Vardr ok Lidskjalv
|
Posted - 2008.06.13 02:19:00 -
[41]
Its fine while the blob may not be your cup of tea for some it is. I joined for a few days and heard alot of people on EvE voice that would never pvp having a ball and thats the point. You do not have to go into FW chokepoints! Just like old pirate camps now avoid Tama and Kourmomen. Even though I've dropped out of FW I've been working on my BMs and safe around backcountry contested areas for piracy. We now have a crap ton of people out in low sec, take advantage of it.
|
ILikeTastyPie
Digital assassins
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Posted - 2008.06.13 02:23:00 -
[42]
Originally by: touchvill
Originally by: Joe Starbreaker
Originally by: touchvill
It's purely the lag generated like as I type there is a fight amongst 193 pilots.
Maybe the alt-tabbing is part of your problem.
If you don't like the blob, why don't you recruit a small group and go visit other systems? There are plenty of them.
I am not in the battle, I am 7 jumps away and I feel the lag.
I am recruiting a small force and we will be doing our own ops.
However I don't care about people blobbing to the point the servers can handle it. Right now they can't though that's my problem with it.
OMG CRY MORE CAN I HAVE YOUR STUFF! Touchvill your a noob gtfo. Join dass you know you want too - fw = fail 
|
Hannobaal
Shadow Forces Inc.
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Posted - 2008.06.13 02:27:00 -
[43]
I didn't feel any lag even in Tama itself, except when I was on grid during the battle itself. As soon as I warped out, it was pretty much normal. |
Quelque Chose
New Eden Roller Disco Supply
|
Posted - 2008.06.13 02:28:00 -
[44]
Hmmm... well, let's see. OP is caldari and probably flying for caldari militia. Knowing that caldari all have the blob gene which produces the blob gland which cranks out blob hormones 24/ 7 even when they're not in 0.0 alliances, my guess is this:
OP is fighting in Black Rise and shopping in Jita just like the rest of the caldari blob.
If that's the case, try a different front. Try hooking up with some amarr guys in verge vendor for instance. I don't know for a fact that it's better there, but I strongly suspect it is. |
PaddyPaddy Nihildarnik
aurorae pacificas
|
Posted - 2008.06.13 10:21:00 -
[45]
Edited by: PaddyPaddy Nihildarnik on 13/06/2008 10:25:32
Actually despite all the return WAAA/CIHYS (Can I Have Your Stuff) posts, the OP does raise a few interesting points. I think if he just stopped for a second before posting and thought about it, reason would prevail and perhaps he wouldnt come off looking like a prize cry baby.
1. Lag issues-
There WAS MAJOR lag issues around the FW hotspots last night. This is coming from a veteran 0.0 pvper (something like 3-4 yrs now playing eve). The entire node was very unstable, many people in the fleet I was in had freq disconnects; gate jumping was terrible; at one point traffic advisories of over 4min were put up on gates around 6-8 jumps from the tama epicenter. These indicate server instability/lag- not client lag
2.Its two days after patch day-
Im surprised the server is even functioning at all, there is alot of new mechanics being tested and from what ive seen the actual bunker system of capturing a system is functioning well. Still, expect unstable servers when you throw large blobs at it like that.
3. FW fleets are being lead by ex 0.0 pvpers who are falling back onto old (bad) habits of blobbling or are being lead by inexperienced fcs imitating 0.0 tactics-
This is truly the surprising thing that ive gathered from my experience of FW so far. Despite the competely lack of motivation for blobbing out a system both Gallente and Caldari FCs have fallen onto this blunt primative form of fleet management. I was in 2 fleets last night that suicided against the same tama caldari blob, heavily outnumbered (as in 140-40 and 120-50) because, seemingly, the FCs were incapable of micromanaging their fleets, maintaining control of the situation and processing scouting intel properly. A third attempt was more successful in diverting around the blob to gain some VPs in nearby systems, yet still fleet management relied on moving 50+ pvpers to chase 1-2 hostiles around.
Dont get me wrong- this isnt a gripe post against my own, merely an observation. The Caldari seem just as ponderous, if not more so, being both aware yet completely incapable of moving a detachement of their 200+ blob in tama (and growing) over 3 systems to engage our 50man fleet which was gaining alot of VPs and blocking off an entire constellation of Black Rise. Reports indicated they didnt move till linking up with the Amarr faction (can anyone confirm this?) and moving off somewhere else to make trouble in a 400 or so man fleet.
TL:DR version
Forget 0.0 lag coming to FW- its 0.0 blob mentality that should be getting discussed here. The objectives of 0.0 necessitate a concentration of force (to some extent), ie the locking down of a station system, pos warfare etc, yet I personally feel the importance of 'blobing' is often over exaggerated by lazy and self delusional or pershaps under confident FCs.
FW on the otherhand appears to be an experiment in multitasking multiple objectives over a wide frontage to negate blob ethics. What is disturbing is the amount of players that have jumped into fleets claiming to be "FCs" so they can sustain brief moments of authoritative self satisfaction before smashing against like minded opponents on the other side.
The poor nub/ average fleet member on the other hand has been once again subordinated to little more than a drone, his experience dictated to him by an asshat pretend general who thinks the entire experience is his alone to enjoy.
|
cal nereus
Perkone
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Posted - 2008.06.13 10:41:00 -
[46]
Originally by: touchvill
I am not in the battle, I am 7 jumps away and I feel the lag.
I am recruiting a small force and we will be doing our own ops.
However I don't care about people blobbing to the point the servers can handle it. Right now they can't though that's my problem with it.
I sympathize you. I think blobbing is perfectly acceptable right up until the lag makes the game unplayable. That's more CCP's problem though.
Anywho, sounds like you've got a good handle on the situation. I hope everything works out for you and your small gang. Fly safe, have fun, and find some action.
---
Earning Isk
Basic Skills
|
Durzel
|
Posted - 2008.06.13 10:43:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Thong Gnome
Originally by: Kneebone
The problem is not the 100+ blobs, the problem is **** poor programming and massively underpowered/overtaxed servers. The only way to fix is it basically redesign the game from top to bottom using modern equipment and code that isn't 5 years out of date.
I agree , CCP is to blame. If they had more money maybe they would fix their POS hardware.
Hard to make money with 22k of 34 k subscribers on trial accounts.
Or with a game that by definition is limiting itself only to those with a pre-disposition towards 1) PvP and 2) griefing.
(not a complaint just a statement of fact)
|
Celeste Coeval
The Gosimer and Scarab
|
Posted - 2008.06.13 10:44:00 -
[48]
Edited by: Celeste Coeval on 13/06/2008 10:44:31
Originally by: FORD ESC0RT
It's all the lame noob blobs that think this is real pvp. FW is fail.
Firstly use of the word "lame" needs to be made illegal, as it usually sums up the person saying it rather than having any actual contributory factor to the context of the sentence. The same can be said of the use of "fail".
Secondly, people blob or did you miss history in school?
Originally by: Lance Fighter
This is either a troll or a noob... Ill take the noob route. |
Mangala Solaris
Ma'adim Logistics
|
Posted - 2008.06.13 10:44:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Farrqua
Does everyone know how to help themselves with lag? This might be second nature for the experienced guys but for the n00bs that has seen nothing out side of a mining laser or a rat spawn this might help a bit.
-turn off all effects
-turn off turrets
-turn off the damn music crap/sound effects.
-create an overview that shows targets only and get rid of the background stuff. All you want to see is the very simple boxes of your targets. Nothing else. No flashy flashy or wanted crap, just the box.
-if you are on coms, drop gang. You can run a 100 man fleet on coms easily without being in a gang. It simple if you are lagged out the gang bonuses are not going to help you anyway.
-click show brackets after you load grid. Brackets off before you get there.
-check your settings in your graphics. turn off what you can. FPS is important.
-Turn off all your "Binky" notifications like wallet, mail, corp chat etc.
-try scrolling in and out to see what view helps your fps. Usually close in works, but the results are varied.
ctrl+alt+shift+M brings up your FPS monitor and when you change your setting you can see if your FPS improves. As you go through and make little changes you can use this to monitor what works and what does not.
There are other tricks but this should get the new guys started.
Oh yea, if your FC or scout insists on typing commands..run find some one that has comms. It will be much better and you will find your self loosing less ships.
Stealing this to repost elsewhere so Caldari Militia Newbs can read it :) WIll hopefully save lives and whines!
-------
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Tyrunedeth
|
Posted - 2008.06.13 11:27:00 -
[50]
solution is simple: massive rewards for those who conquer a system
and, possibily, some kind of penalty for the militia who loose it.
Maybe somethink like very good agents spawning in the conquerable system.
Tama for example: whoever holds it get access to special agents that give twice the LP.
This way people will start fighting in those plexes and not just try to clash and make a mess of enemy players. |
Yuri Tsukimoto
|
Posted - 2008.06.13 11:42:00 -
[51]
Caldari are united like a rush of zerglings.
However, i wanna see how is the score today, for endless skirmish may be fun for a while, but its not going to get us systems.
|
Throatslitter
|
Posted - 2008.06.13 11:49:00 -
[52]
Australian TZ FTW! 
There aren't nearly enough players online to blob anything. For months now I've been missing out on fleet battles because of time zones, with these smaller FW gangs I'm can finally have some PVP fun.
|
Kay Han
Stardust Heavy Industries
Majesta Empire
|
Posted - 2008.06.13 11:55:00 -
[53]
Edited by: Kay Han on 13/06/2008 11:55:57
Originally by: Farrqua
Stuff
Sadly all that **** reduces the client lag only (FPS wise), but doesnt help CCP¦s ****** up servers when it comes to blob wars
Originally by: CCP Atropos
Personally I think Amarr ships should consume slaves in a similar way that other ships consume ammunition.
|
Merdaneth
PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2008.06.13 11:56:00 -
[54]
CCP have tried their best to break up blobs in FW by providing:
1. Objectives spread over a large area
2. Objectives that put a restriction on ship types
3. Poor management tools for the Factions
Fact of the matter remains, people dislike to lose, blobbing reduces that risk, hence people blob. It's smart and it makes sense. It is a prisoner's dilemma.
In terms of factional warfare, the biggest blob may win the most fights, but might get the least Victory Points.
____
The Illusion of Freedom | The Truth about Slavery |
WAuter
|
Posted - 2008.06.13 12:29:00 -
[55]
Blobbing should be penalized:
more than 50 people of same militia/alliance in system?
=> everyone -25% to shield/armor defence and -25% damage output!!!
NO MORE BLOBBING!!! |
Megan Maynard
Out of Order
|
Posted - 2008.06.13 12:42:00 -
[56]
Originally by: FORD ESC0RT
It's all the lame noob blobs that think this is real pvp. FW is fail.
Uhhhhhh ever been to 0.0? For most alliances that is pvp. Which is kinda lame. When you lose, you lose HARD.
Whatever.
|
Zorrix
|
Posted - 2008.06.13 12:49:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Thong Gnome
Edited by: Thong Gnome on 12/06/2008 17:42:06
Edited by: Thong Gnome on 12/06/2008 17:39:38
Edited by: Thong Gnome on 12/06/2008 17:37:08
Originally by: Tarminic
Originally by: Kneebone
The problem is not the 100+ blobs, the problem is **** poor programming and massively underpowered/overtaxed servers. The only way to fix is it basically redesign the game from top to bottom using modern equipment and code that isn't 5 years out of date.
Er...what servers would you recommend CCP purchase? Remember, it has to be available to civilians.
Check this vid out:
http://www.sun.com/servers/highend/m9000/gallery/index.xml?p=1&s=2
Optimized for 24x7 mission critical computing
Features up to 32 or 64 high performance dual core SPARC64 VI processors and up to 2 TB memory
Mainframe RAS capabilities
Ideal consolidation platform with up to 24 dynamic domains and thousands of Solaris containers per system
Up to 288 PCIe or PCI-X slots with the external I/O expansion unit
Includes Solaris 10 preinstalled
Available as a Sun System Pack, which combines the Sun SPARC Enterprise M9000 with the right services as one offering
100% binary compatibility with UltraSPARC processors
Installation services that help you fully utilize the industry's most open platform, built on open source technologies and open standards
But will it run Vista Home Premium???
|
ShardowRhino
Legion 0f The Damned
|
Posted - 2008.06.13 13:42:00 -
[58]
Originally by: FORD ESC0RT
It's all the lame noob blobs that think this is real pvp. FW is fail.
hmmm....yeah your right this isnt real pvp. Cause..no one is in a ship. No one is flying around outside of .5 where they can be attacked. No one is looking for a fight. No one is putting their isk and pods on the line. no one has weapons.no one has a scram. no one has a web. no one is shooting at each other. no one is using a ship they like. no one is blobbing. no one is soloing. no one is flying in small roaming gangs.
you know, the more i look at it the more i think your right, this isnt real pvp! silly carebears need to go back to their mining barges and leave the killing,podding,yarring to those that set the bar on when "real pvp" is achieved. It doesn't resemble anything i have ever seen in low sec or even 0.0 before. this is madness!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
Kaylana Syi
Stimulus
|
Posted - 2008.06.13 14:05:00 -
[59]
EVE's servers are dual opterons which despite what a lot of people think about AMD right now still run very, very competitively with Xeons built with Core 2 Duo. Server hardware and Desktop hardware don't always need the same nuts and bolts.
The problem is with that memory cannot be shared among multiple CPU's so each processor is assigned to one node. One node can have one or more solar systems attached to it. If they can harness Infiniband for their Cluster Software then this will change and lag might go the way of the dino but until then we have what we have.
Team Minmatar
|
Mithrantir Ob'lontra
Ixion Defence Systems
|
Posted - 2008.06.13 14:57:00 -
[60]
Originally by: PaddyPaddy Nihildarnik
....I was in 2 fleets last night that suicided against the same tama caldari blob, heavily outnumbered (as in 140-40 and 120-50) because, seemingly, the FCs were incapable of micromanaging their fleets, maintaining control of the situation and processing scouting intel properly. A third attempt was more successful in diverting around the blob to gain some VPs in nearby systems, yet still fleet management relied on moving 50+ pvpers to chase 1-2 hostiles around.
Dont get me wrong- this isnt a gripe post against my own, merely an observation. The Caldari seem just as ponderous, if not more so, being both aware yet completely incapable of moving a detachement of their 200+ blob in tama (and growing) over 3 systems to engage our 50man fleet which was gaining alot of VPs and blocking off an entire constellation of Black Rise to their reinforcments. ....
I was in the first fleet of Gallente Militia in Tama. And my Thorax died and got out. But i got out the wrong way (towards Caldari space that is ). The first Caldari fleet was about 100 ships (didn't check local numbers). But when i jumped into the other systems (during the false route of escaping) i saw a 300 men fleet journeying to Tama. So that makes it 300+ people in a fleet of the Caldari Militia being in Tama yesterday. |
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