Originally by: Mistress Suffering

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- Self destruct still yield killmails via same rules as an NPC kill (first other human gets mail).

THOUGHT: In the event where someone is shooting at you and you self-destruct, it should treat it exactly like an NPC kill. You die, and it just looks at the next highest source of damage and awards the mail accordingly. Failure to do this just punishes people for _not_ bringing overkill all the time. If 3 brave battleships hold down a carrier, cycle in and out to hold points, and finally wear him down in an epic struggle they should get the credit. Not oh sorry, you can't kill me in 2 minutes, so I self-destruct and it doesn't count. Same issue with supercaps, etc.. If you only barely have enough damage to kill something, you should be rewarded for making the kill, not punished.

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Originally by: Tarminic

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I agree with the first 3 suggestions, but...

Originally by: Mistress Suffering

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- Self destruct still yield killmails via same rules as an NPC kill (first other human gets mail).

THOUGHT: In the event where someone is shooting at you and you self-destruct, it should treat it exactly like an NPC kill. You die, and it just looks at the next highest source of damage and awards the mail accordingly. Failure to do this just punishes people for _not_ bringing overkill all the time. If 3 brave battleships hold down a carrier, cycle in and out to hold points, and finally wear him down in an epic struggle they should get the credit. Not oh sorry, you can't kill me in 2 minutes, so I self-destruct and it doesn't count. Same issue with supercaps, etc.. If you only barely have enough damage to kill something, you should be rewarded for making the kill, not punished.

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Honestly I think that people are far too concerned about killmails. In any situation where your opponent self-destructs you still have plenty of evidence that the combat took place such as combat logs. Receiving killmails from self-destructing ships, in my opinion, is placing too much emphasis on personal pride and not enough emphasis on the fact that you have deprived your opponent of his ship.

However, given the recent HP buffs, the self destruct timer should at least be increased to 3 or 4 minutes. I don't think that the killmails generated from self-destructing should show fittings, however.

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Originally by: Tea Spoon

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Before expending the agression mechanics they should first be properly documented and a visible 0.0 agression timer added. The current undocumented Mobile Warp Disruptor mechanics for instance which create agression on both a player initiating warp in one and the player who deployed it without any visible indication this happened.

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Originally by: Tarminic

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I agree with the first 3 suggestions, but...

Originally by: Mistress Suffering

---

- Self destruct still yield killmails via same rules as an NPC kill (first other human gets mail).

THOUGHT: In the event where someone is shooting at you and you self-destruct, it should treat it exactly like an NPC kill. You die, and it just looks at the next highest source of damage and awards the mail accordingly. Failure to do this just punishes people for _not_ bringing overkill all the time. If 3 brave battleships hold down a carrier, cycle in and out to hold points, and finally wear him down in an epic struggle they should get the credit. Not oh sorry, you can't kill me in 2 minutes, so I self-destruct and it doesn't count. Same issue with supercaps, etc.. If you only barely have enough damage to kill something, you should be rewarded for making the kill, not punished.

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Honestly I think that people are far too concerned about killmails. In any situation where your opponent self-destructs you still have plenty of evidence that the combat took place such as combat logs. Receiving killmails from self-destructing ships, in my opinion, is placing too much emphasis on personal pride and not enough emphasis on the fact that you have deprived your opponent of his ship.

However, given the recent HP buffs, the self destruct timer should at least be increased to 3 or 4 minutes. I don't think that the killmails generated from self-destructing should show fittings, however.

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Originally by: Tarminic

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I agree with the first 3 suggestions, but...

Originally by: Mistress Suffering

---

- Self destruct still yield killmails via same rules as an NPC kill (first other human gets mail).

THOUGHT: In the event where someone is shooting at you and you self-destruct, it should treat it exactly like an NPC kill. You die, and it just looks at the next highest source of damage and awards the mail accordingly. Failure to do this just punishes people for _not_ bringing overkill all the time. If 3 brave battleships hold down a carrier, cycle in and out to hold points, and finally wear him down in an epic struggle they should get the credit. Not oh sorry, you can't kill me in 2 minutes, so I self-destruct and it doesn't count. Same issue with supercaps, etc.. If you only barely have enough damage to kill something, you should be rewarded for making the kill, not punished.

---

Honestly I think that people are far too concerned about killmails. In any situation where your opponent self-destructs you still have plenty of evidence that the combat took place such as combat logs. Receiving killmails from self-destructing ships, in my opinion, is placing too much emphasis on personal pride and not enough emphasis on the fact that you have deprived your opponent of his ship.

However, given the recent HP buffs, the self destruct timer should at least be increased to 3 or 4 minutes. I don't think that the killmails generated from self-destructing should show fittings, however.

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Originally by: Natalia Kovac

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Originally by: Tarminic

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I agree with the first 3 suggestions, but...

Originally by: Mistress Suffering

---

- Self destruct still yield killmails via same rules as an NPC kill (first other human gets mail).

THOUGHT: In the event where someone is shooting at you and you self-destruct, it should treat it exactly like an NPC kill. You die, and it just looks at the next highest source of damage and awards the mail accordingly. Failure to do this just punishes people for _not_ bringing overkill all the time. If 3 brave battleships hold down a carrier, cycle in and out to hold points, and finally wear him down in an epic struggle they should get the credit. Not oh sorry, you can't kill me in 2 minutes, so I self-destruct and it doesn't count. Same issue with supercaps, etc.. If you only barely have enough damage to kill something, you should be rewarded for making the kill, not punished.

---

Honestly I think that people are far too concerned about killmails. In any situation where your opponent self-destructs you still have plenty of evidence that the combat took place such as combat logs. Receiving killmails from self-destructing ships, in my opinion, is placing too much emphasis on personal pride and not enough emphasis on the fact that you have deprived your opponent of his ship.

However, given the recent HP buffs, the self destruct timer should at least be increased to 3 or 4 minutes. I don't think that the killmails generated from self-destructing should show fittings, however.

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No. People self-destructing to avoid killmails is the ****test thing ever. Have you ever ganged a disparate bunch of people in lowsec to kill a carrier with battleships that was preying on your mates, and then he selfdestructs at structure? So annoying. Killmails are how we record victories, and losses, and yeah sure there's a pride thing you point to and say we killed whoever. I don't see a problem with that.

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Originally by: Tarminic
So would you be okay with self destruct mails not containing any fitting information?[/quote

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I think that would be a great compromise, the aggressor gets the Killmail and the target denies the aggressor the satisfaction of knowing how it was fit etc.

Originally by: Jade Constantine

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Yep, happy to advocate these changes and fixes. I support the items here as a group issue (combat dynamics) and once this has been out here for a minimum 7 days discussion I'll be bring them to the CSM for approval.

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Originally by: Tarminic

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I don't think that the killmails generated from self-destructing should show fittings, however.

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