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Better anti-support sniper... Zealot or Muninn

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Barsexual	Posted - 2008.06.13 14:44:00 - [1] Edited by: Barsexual on 13/06/2008 14:44:42 I can fly both the Zealot and Muninn but I've never used them in sniper configuration. I'm in the Gallente Federation for faction warfare if that matters. [Muninn, sniper] Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Tracking Enhancer II Tracking Enhancer II Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range Sensor Booster II Tracking Computer II, Tracking Speed 720mm Howitzer Artillery II, Tremor M 720mm Howitzer Artillery II, Tremor M 720mm Howitzer Artillery II, Tremor M 720mm Howitzer Artillery II, Tremor M 720mm Howitzer Artillery II, Tremor M [empty high slot] [empty high slot] [empty rig slot] [empty rig slot] ------------------------------------- [Zealot, sniper] Heat Sink II Heat Sink II Heat Sink II Tracking Enhancer II Tracking Enhancer II Tracking Enhancer II Damage Control II 10MN MicroWarpdrive II Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range Sensor Booster II Heavy Beam Laser II, Aurora M Heavy Beam Laser II, Aurora M Heavy Beam Laser II, Aurora M Heavy Beam Laser II, Aurora M Heavy Beam Laser II, Aurora M [empty rig slot] [empty rig slot] The Zealot has less volley damage but more dps.
Lyria Skydancer Eve Defence Force Insurgency	Posted - 2008.06.13 14:46:00 - [2] Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 13/06/2008 14:54:44 Zealot with pulses and range rigs with your fit is king at 0-60km range. Above that you might consider arty muninn though. Beam zealot isn't that great imo.
Knowla	Posted - 2008.06.13 15:10:00 - [3] on the muninn you can drop a tracking enhancer and the tracking computer and add 2 optimal range rigs, would give you a higher optimal (reducing the need for tracking) and opening up a low for a reactor control so you can fit an afterburner (or possibly mwd depending on fitting skills) to hold distance.
Trojanman190 Altruism. Malice.	Posted - 2008.06.13 16:19:00 - [4] Edited by: Trojanman190 on 13/06/2008 16:20:27 Or a coromont fitted for range. You wont be missing with it. On a side note, the munnin kinda blows. But its your call. If I knew I was about to go into a fight as anti support I would definitly roll out in a vagabond. Its pretty brutal.
Arvald State Protectorate	Posted - 2008.06.13 16:37:00 - [5] Edited by: Arvald on 13/06/2008 16:37:31 surprisingly with missile speed rigs, the Cerberus makes a damn good heavy missile sniper easily gets up to 140km so if you can fly it then try it, but yes i have heard good things about sniper zealot
Liang Nuren Perkone	Posted - 2008.06.13 16:39:00 - [6] The Zealot is hands down better than the Muninn with the sole exception of instapopping inties with RF EMP at 20km. BTW, the proper Muninn fit will look more like this: 5x 720 II 10mn MWD, 2x Sensor Booster 3x Gyro II, TE II, DC II <No Rigs> I don't recall if launchers fit in the highs, but I'm sure I had something up there. :P -Liang
FT Diomedes Ductus Exemplo	Posted - 2008.06.13 17:06:00 - [7] Edited by: FT Diomedes on 13/06/2008 17:14:35 Originally by: Liang Nuren The Zealot is hands down better than the Muninn with the sole exception of instapopping inties with RF EMP at 20km. BTW, the proper Muninn fit will look more like this: 5x 720 II 10mn MWD, 2x Sensor Booster 3x Gyro II, TE II, DC II <No Rigs> I don't recall if launchers fit in the highs, but I'm sure I had something up there. :P -Liang This is very close to the fit I use. And it does instapop Inties at 20km (great for killing scouts on gates). I put rigs on it too - so I get a faster lock time (targeting system subcontrollers). It doesn't really have enough grid to fit missile launchers, but it has lots of CPU. So, I usually put a couple of Drone Link Augmentors on it. ------------ Improvize. Adapt. Overcome.
Liang Nuren Perkone	Posted - 2008.06.13 17:07:00 - [8] Originally by: FT Diomedes This is very close to the fit I use. And it does instapop Inties at 20km (great for killing scouts on gates). I put rigs on it too - so I get a faster lock time. Yeah, if you're going to rig it, those are the ones I'd suggest too. -Liang -- It was an honor to participate in the Insurgency campaign in Branch. o7 to all involved.
Izanaki Kurita Veyr	Posted - 2008.06.13 20:05:00 - [9] Or you could fit optimal rigs, I hear they still dont stack with TCs/TEs.. -Izzy
Liang Nuren Perkone	Posted - 2008.06.13 20:13:00 - [10] Originally by: Izanaki Kurita Or you could fit optimal rigs, I hear they still dont stack with TCs/TEs.. -Izzy True, but optimal isn't really as useful as it sounds (promise). Lock time, OTOH, is crucial. -Liang
Bruce Deorum Mythos Corp RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.06.13 21:56:00 - [11] Edited by: Bruce Deorum on 13/06/2008 21:59:49 If the role is Anti-support my vote goes to 2 SBs with Targeting speed scripts. Range is usually ok, resting at 40-50kms usually is quite enough. So targeting range is already fine. Locking time is crucial, it can buy u a second voley. As far as TEs II are concerned, we can discuss that...
Liola Irrard	Posted - 2008.06.14 02:14:00 - [12] Just curious, how does the Eagle compare to the Muninn/Zealot as a sniper?
AstroPhobic	Posted - 2008.06.14 02:20:00 - [13] Originally by: Liola Irrard Just curious, how does the Eagle compare to the Muninn/Zealot as a sniper? It's far better.
Namurung	Posted - 2008.06.14 03:57:00 - [14] Edited by: Namurung on 14/06/2008 04:00:30 optimal being not important is like saying turrets arent important You've never been optimal nerfed by 50% with a single mod before have you? cause it sucks.
Gneeznow North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2008.06.14 05:02:00 - [15] They are both brilliant at antisupport, if your job is to keep ceptors away from sniper battleships use the muninn, zealot's tracking sucks compared to the muninn, however if zealot can hit to 140km and muninn can hit to 100km (using locus rigs) Zealot doesnt alpha ceptors like the muninn does so they tend to warp off before you can kill them. Either way both ships do the job really well so get one of each I reckon.
Lyria Skydancer Eve Defence Force Insurgency	Posted - 2008.06.14 07:28:00 - [16] I think eagle, muninn and zealot are good in different ways. People are trying to shove them into the same type of fitting and flying and they partly fail because of it. Imo they have different ways of use and strength. Use them. Eagle superior range. Zealot has superior tracking and firepower with pulses Muninn has 3 weaponsystems and high alpha. What does this mean? Use eagle for very high ranged support sniping with rails. Not much more to add to this tbh. Its a very good ship. Use the zealot with pulses, 3xHS, 3xTE, 2xrange rigs. This ship is death for anything smaller then a BC at a 0-60km range with its 400+ dps. Use muninn split up weapon systems. Fit 2 heavy launchers, 650mm and 5 warrior IIs. Use your primary weapon on the primary (or other support), use the launchers on some support cruiser or on secondary target and the 5xwarriors on a tackler. Imo most that whine about the muninn are trying to use it like a zealot but forget about the usefulness of launchers and drones. It takes a bit more skill to fly the muninn...
Liang Nuren Perkone	Posted - 2008.06.14 08:05:00 - [17] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer I think eagle, muninn and zealot are good in different ways. People are trying to shove them into the same type of fitting and flying and they partly fail because of it. Imo they have different ways of use and strength. Use them. Eagle superior range. Zealot has superior tracking and firepower with pulses Muninn has 3 weaponsystems and high alpha. What does this mean? Use eagle for very high ranged support sniping with rails. Not much more to add to this tbh. Its a very good ship. Use the zealot with pulses, 3xHS, 3xTE, 2xrange rigs. This ship is death for anything smaller then a BC at a 0-60km range with its 400+ dps. Use muninn split up weapon systems. Fit 2 heavy launchers, 650mm and 5 warrior IIs. Use your primary weapon on the primary (or other support), use the launchers on some support cruiser or on secondary target and the 5xwarriors on a tackler. Imo most that whine about the muninn are trying to use it like a zealot but forget about the usefulness of launchers and drones. It takes a bit more skill to fly the muninn... You know, when noobs come to this forum fitting 4 rails and 4 blasters to their Cormorant, we advise them of the error of their ways. This is me advising you of the error of your ways. At best, the launcher slots are for precision lights and Warrior II's to chase off tacklers. At best. -Liang -- It was an honor to participate in the Insurgency campaign in Branch. o7 to all involved.
Lyria Skydancer Eve Defence Force Insurgency	Posted - 2008.06.14 08:39:00 - [18] Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Lyria Skydancer I think eagle, muninn and zealot are good in different ways. People are trying to shove them into the same type of fitting and flying and they partly fail because of it. Imo they have different ways of use and strength. Use them. Eagle superior range. Zealot has superior tracking and firepower with pulses Muninn has 3 weaponsystems and high alpha. What does this mean? Use eagle for very high ranged support sniping with rails. Not much more to add to this tbh. Its a very good ship. Use the zealot with pulses, 3xHS, 3xTE, 2xrange rigs. This ship is death for anything smaller then a BC at a 0-60km range with its 400+ dps. Use muninn split up weapon systems. Fit 2 heavy launchers, 650mm and 5 warrior IIs. Use your primary weapon on the primary (or other support), use the launchers on some support cruiser or on secondary target and the 5xwarriors on a tackler. Imo most that whine about the muninn are trying to use it like a zealot but forget about the usefulness of launchers and drones. It takes a bit more skill to fly the muninn... You know, when noobs come to this forum fitting 4 rails and 4 blasters to their Cormorant, we advise them of the error of their ways. This is me advising you of the error of your ways. At best, the launcher slots are for precision lights and Warrior II's to chase off tacklers. At best. -Liang If find 2xheavy missiles better. You can aim those on a nano hac and force him to keep his speed up. It's not like those 2 std precisions are going to make any diff when you already have 5xwarriors for anti frig in the 0-40 range. The heavies are also not too far off your main weapon range and can be aimed at 2nd targets called by the FC. It's not so black and white liang and you should know that.
Kay Rissa Russian Thunder Squad Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2008.06.14 09:24:00 - [19] i prefer Zealot, because it has better tracking and higher DPS with guns. Also you dont have to worry about drones and missiles. But on the other hand drones and missiles are usefull when support gets very close to you (but usualy you are dead then anyway), so I choose zealot. Also here are some numbers: Zealot DPS (my skills, maxed out + some implants and 3 HS T2) - 308 DPS, 760+ alpha Munnin (maxed out skills, 3% damage implant) 229 DPS, 1400+ alpha Zealot: optimal 149 km + 10 falloff, targeting 169 km (3 tracking ench, 2 optimal range rigs) Munnin: 137 optimal + 22 faloff (2 tracking ench, 2 optimal range rigs) - this is theory, because it doesnt fit with mwd, you will 100 pg short, so you would have to drop HS or loose range. P.S. I hope this helps you to choose a ship I hate whiners, nerf this, nerf that. This way one day all of us we will be flying ibis-es of doom
Felix Dzerzhinsky Wreckless Abandon Un-Natural Selection	Posted - 2008.06.14 10:32:00 - [20] Zelot hands down, does close and long range well with pulse lazers and you get the sac and curse out of the deal. . . sure the eagle is good, but the zelot packs more punch at close range. ---- GO BLUE!!
Goumindong Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.06.14 12:40:00 - [21] Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Lyria Skydancer I think eagle, muninn and zealot are good in different ways. People are trying to shove them into the same type of fitting and flying and they partly fail because of it. Imo they have different ways of use and strength. Use them. Eagle superior range. Zealot has superior tracking and firepower with pulses Muninn has 3 weaponsystems and high alpha. What does this mean? Use eagle for very high ranged support sniping with rails. Not much more to add to this tbh. Its a very good ship. Use the zealot with pulses, 3xHS, 3xTE, 2xrange rigs. This ship is death for anything smaller then a BC at a 0-60km range with its 400+ dps. Use muninn split up weapon systems. Fit 2 heavy launchers, 650mm and 5 warrior IIs. Use your primary weapon on the primary (or other support), use the launchers on some support cruiser or on secondary target and the 5xwarriors on a tackler. Imo most that whine about the muninn are trying to use it like a zealot but forget about the usefulness of launchers and drones. It takes a bit more skill to fly the muninn... You know, when noobs come to this forum fitting 4 rails and 4 blasters to their Cormorant, we advise them of the error of their ways. This is me advising you of the error of your ways. At best, the launcher slots are for precision lights and Warrior II's to chase off tacklers. At best. -Liang Warrior IIs won't chase off tacklers, most decent inties will go faster than your drones anyway. EC-300s get rid of tacklers better(10km range makes them get in range more often) The Muninn is pretty sub-par, but its still a better anti-inty ship around 100km with faction ammo. If you're using tech 2 ammo in your HAC for long range work, you are flying the wrong ship for the most part. For factional warfare things might be difference as you are going to have locked complexes. That will make the Zealot the king of long range DPS and the Hurricane or Harbinger the best "fleet" ships.
Crellion Art of War Cruel Intentions	Posted - 2008.06.14 12:51:00 - [22] 2xassault lkaunchers with precisions and 5x warriors will hamper most orbitting ceptors (as opposed to straight line running ceptors). Of course against straigth tackle set ups like uber fast Ares with long range scram etc there is little hope... Regarding sniping: Eagle is for uber long snipering but has very low alpha and low dps and as it competes with sniper BSs its of limited use. Munnin is very good at instapopping frigs but this is a bit chance based and a dangerous sport so Rupture is a better option for this (Gaus Beloid used to rock at this... Sariss also but not used it as much). Zealot is as described an honest platform of a wide use. You dont have to go all sniper with it and its not only there to kill frigs as the pulse sniping fit has exceptionally good DPS... its more plug and play than the other two... Arguably my opinions represent to an extent the opinions of my alliance and in particular circumstances give rise to a valid "casus belli" claim.
Goumindong Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.06.14 13:03:00 - [23] edit: Oh, forgot DA FEROX. I.E. what you should really be worried bout. Drakes are going to be really freaking strong as well. [Ferox, rigged] Reactor Control Unit II Reactor Control Unit II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II 10MN MicroWarpdrive II Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range 250mm Railgun II, Spike M 250mm Railgun II, Spike M 250mm Railgun II, Spike M 250mm Railgun II, Spike M 250mm Railgun II, Spike M 250mm Railgun II, Spike M [empty high slot] Hybrid Locus Coordinator I Hybrid Locus Coordinator I Hybrid Locus Coordinator I 160 DPS @ 178km. Now, you can't warp within a FW complex. So the force that gets there first and decides at what range you are going to start the fight at is going to have a large advantage. 10-20 Ferox 160km above the warp in point will make short work out of just about anything that comes in with little the enemy can do about it.
Kyle Cataclysm	Posted - 2008.06.14 13:10:00 - [24] MY MEGATHRON FIT IS THE FOLLOWING: 2 X ARBALEST CRUISE LAUNCHER 4 X NEUTRON CANNON II 1 X TRACTOR BEAM 2 X LARGE SHIELD EXTENDER 1 X FLEETING PROPULSION STASIS WEBIFIER 1 X FLEETING WARP PROHIBITOR 4 X CAPACITOR POWER RELAY 2 X BALLISTIC CONTROL UNIT 1 X ENERGIZED ADAPATIVE NANO MEMBRANE
Roland 99 Battlestars GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.06.14 17:13:00 - [25] A BC5 hurricane with a 720II sniper fit is a beast. It's cheap, insurable, and outperforms the munin in almost every way. I am depressed...
Lyria Skydancer Eve Defence Force	Posted - 2008.06.14 17:15:00 - [26] Originally by: Roland 99 A BC5 hurricane with a 720II sniper fit is a beast. It's cheap, insurable, and outperforms the munin in almost every way. I am depressed... No it doesn't. You're not popping any inties without tracking. Fail.
Roland 99 Battlestars GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.06.14 17:21:00 - [27] at 80-90K I will blow a****got in a crow out of his space boots
Liang Nuren Perkone	Posted - 2008.06.14 17:22:00 - [28] Edited by: Liang Nuren on 14/06/2008 17:22:57 Originally by: Lyria Skydancer No it doesn't. You're not popping any inties without tracking. Fail. Believe it or not, the Hurricane does pop inties about as well as the Muninn (from experience). The Hurricane has better tracking than a HAC4 Muninn. It does so because: - It has more guns (this matters, because its more chances to hit) - It has more mids (this matters because you can fit tracking computers) - It has more lows (this matters because you can fit more tracking enhancers) Ex: Muninn has: - 25875+21875 / 0.0414 / 2.8s lock /2289 alpha Hurricane has: - 19498+21875 / 0.0408 / 2747 3.1s lock / 2747 alpha What does the Muninn have? Optimal. What's the best use of a Muninn? Popping frigs/inties at a gatecamp. Does this require an optimal bonus or launcher slots or a drone bay? No. -Liang Ed: Forgot a number -- It was an honor to participate in the Insurgency campaign in Branch. o7 to all involved.
Roland 99 Battlestars GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.06.14 17:28:00 - [29] Edited by: Roland 99 on 14/06/2008 17:33:50 If the Munin had another mid, I would fly them more. As it stands now, you have to fit 2 sensor boosters to be able to lock out to max range. Just like it's big brother the tempest scripting raped it hard. I got hac's 4 and BC5 so my hurricane has the exact same damage mod on the 720's as my munin, in addition to another gun, slightly less range, and very close tracking since it actually has enough slots to fit the necessary gear. On top of all that, the hull is only about 35Mil it's insurable, close in agility, and has a hell of a lot more HP. The Muninn is ******* broken, but ccp is too busy giving amarr a handjob. 80k Pulse laser apocs?!! Gimme a god damn break.
Lyria Skydancer Eve Defence Force	Posted - 2008.06.14 18:22:00 - [30] Originally by: Liang Nuren Edited by: Liang Nuren on 14/06/2008 17:22:57 Originally by: Lyria Skydancer No it doesn't. You're not popping any inties without tracking. Fail. Believe it or not, the Hurricane does pop inties about as well as the Muninn (from experience). The Hurricane has better tracking than a HAC4 Muninn. It does so because: - It has more guns (this matters, because its more chances to hit) - It has more mids (this matters because you can fit tracking computers) - It has more lows (this matters because you can fit more tracking enhancers) Ex: Muninn has: - 25875+21875 / 0.0414 / 2.8s lock /2289 alpha Hurricane has: - 19498+21875 / 0.0408 / 2747 3.1s lock / 2747 alpha What does the Muninn have? Optimal. What's the best use of a Muninn? Popping frigs/inties at a gatecamp. Does this require an optimal bonus or launcher slots or a drone bay? No. -Liang Ed: Forgot a number Uhm how do you fit a 100km operational ranged sniper. Id like to see your hurricane and muninn fits for this.

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