Well duh, I can see you've studied the game in some depth. Another example of someone who clearly doesn't fly a hulk and if he does not understand that what you are suggesting is normally how hulks are fitted. It will NOT save your hulk.

Actually, in my experience ganked hulks are fit for max cargo or mining rate, with tank a secondary consideration unless at war.
http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=15392397
http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=15392398
http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=15439177
http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=15389480

And apparently, with tank a secondary consideration *even if at war*.

Here's one solidly tanked, but pretty clearly not a suicide gank as well:
http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=15436306

So tell me where you next lowsec mining OP is and we'll put this to the test

no idea. Depends where we find a nice grav site.

There's one in Hagilur right now. Go there and let's see how long you last.

This just goes to prove my point. Even a well tanked Hulk DIED TO A FRIGATE! It didn't even take 9K Dmg to do it either.

It was a serious attempt at tanking, but he took a hulk out mining (apparently solo) while at war.

Note also that there's a *lot* of resists on there. You have to multiply the raw damage dealt by at least 2.5 to account for those resists.

20K damage in 20 seconds or less for ganking would require a fit capable of 1000 DPS. That is certainly possible, but you aren't doing it for *that* much less than the cost of the Hulk.

Taking a Hulk out while at war is obviously stupid, you may as well fly solo in lowsec or nullsec. But I'm talking about the problems of Hulk being so easily gankable in high-sec by a solo player who ISN'T at war. The example you gave was a frigate, make that a cruiser and the total dmg taken would be halved if not quartered.

You cannot convince me that the VERY high risk of mining in high-sec is equal to the very low rewards,

Not all the time. Sometimes the hulk can win , this was a counter by someone against hulkaggeddon pilots

I'm just wondering if there's any particular reason why mining ships have such pathetic defenses? The small miner in high-sec has absolutely NO CHANGE against a wannabe ganker.

I just did a test with one of my alts. I dusted off my hulk and took it out for a mining OP in high-sec, and had my other alt hauling the rocks. Not 30 minutes after me doing this, a lone Thorax with a Sec of -1 had ganked my Hulk solo. Even with the extra buffage I'd added to the ship it was zapped in a matter of seconds.

With mining about to be taken as a serious profession again as the only real source of minerals, isn't it time we stopped making Mining Barges out of Glass?

I've been trying to work out what justification there could be for making mining barges so weak and pathetic, and I'm coming up with nothing. Wouldn't this solve a whole lot of problems? A lone Thorax shouldn't be able to wonder up to a barge in high-sec and destroy it long before CONCORD make an appearance.

That analogy might actually make sense if you replaced "pickup truck" with "armored fighting vehicle" and "crashing into" with "firing anti-tank weapons". It isn't a case of two civilian vehicles ramming eachother, it is a case of a dedicated combat ship attacking a civilian industrial ship.

I don't know which universe, real or fictional, people live in where it seems reasonable for a combat ship to be unable to completely annihilate a civilian industrial ship in approximately the time it takes for whatever it shoots to hit the target.

That analogy might actually make sense if you replaced "pickup truck" with "armored fighting vehicle" and "crashing into" with "firing anti-tank weapons". It isn't a case of two civilian vehicles ramming eachother, it is a case of a dedicated combat ship attacking a civilian industrial ship.

You have a good point.

Ok, this came to me a few moments ago, and it has solid precedent in most science fiction.

Asteroid belts are dangerous.

Forget armor or shields, these big massive rocks are bouncing around like pinballs once mining starts, and ships not designed to endure this punishment get flattened by it.

Similar in concept to cloaks don't work in dust clouds, ships not designed to operate in mining environments find it hazardous.

Effect 1: Mining debris flying everywhere is more than combat scanners can handle, and any ship inside this cloud of chaff is effectively screened from targeting by ships outside of it.

Effect 2: Big rocks, small mining debris, and the inability to see one rock rushing at you from behind another moving rock, actually being in the furball results in your ship being hit from random directions, jarring your targeting scanners into constantly rebooting, and tearing apart your shields and armor.

(Ever notice in movies how desperate space captains would hide in the asteroid belts? Big ships held back, and small ships would be crushed. It was like watching a giant space blender.)

Industrial ships are able to survive in this hostile environment. Their scanners and targeting, useless for combat, is ideally suited to locking onto the larger asteroids for mining.
The industrial shields, ineffective against missile blasts and lasers, are uniquely qualified to minimize and deflect impacts from small rocks to huge chunks of asteroid.

So long as the mining craft stays in it's element, not much can affect it.

You have a good point.

Ok, this came to me a few moments ago, and it has solid precedent in most science fiction.

Asteroid belts are dangerous.

Forget armor or shields, these big massive rocks are bouncing around like pinballs once mining starts, and ships not designed to endure this punishment get flattened by it.

Similar in concept to cloaks don't work in dust clouds, ships not designed to operate in mining environments find it hazardous.

Effect 1: Mining debris flying everywhere is more than combat scanners can handle, and any ship inside this cloud of chaff is effectively screened from targeting by ships outside of it.

Effect 2: Big rocks, small mining debris, and the inability to see one rock rushing at you from behind another moving rock, actually being in the furball results in your ship being hit from random directions, jarring your targeting scanners into constantly rebooting, and tearing apart your shields and armor.

(Ever notice in movies how desperate space captains would hide in the asteroid belts? Big ships held back, and small ships would be crushed. It was like watching a giant space blender.)

Industrial ships are able to survive in this hostile environment. Their scanners and targeting, useless for combat, is ideally suited to locking onto the larger asteroids for mining.
The industrial shields, ineffective against missile blasts and lasers, are uniquely qualified to minimize and deflect impacts from small rocks to huge chunks of asteroid.

So long as the mining craft stays in it's element, not much can affect it.

ship that gank hulks cost millions.
hulk costs hundreds of millions.
Should ship that costs millions kill ship that costs hundreds of millions in under 20 secs - NO FU.CKING WAY

I actually kinda like this ... with one caveat --> denial of targeting is a bad thing (just reduce sig radius of ships whilst inside)

This.

I can see the reduced signature radius as a possible interpretation of this. But if taken from that aspect, it must also accept a nearly random shot blocking effect caused by the asteroids and their debris.

To use the running analogy, you are shooting at something in a blender, and things will block the shots unpredictably.

The "Effect 2" specifics on the ship itself, could be a combination of simulated bumping, and kinetic damage, depending on the relative size of the asteroids and debris involved. To follow the analogy, you are INSIDE the blender.

The further from the asteroid belt, the more frequent the shot blocking effect becomes involved.
The closer to the asteroid belt, the greater the intensity of the "Effect 2" consequences involved.

If you can handle both, you are either a mining barge or an exhumer.

Following this logic, the safest place for an Orca or a Rorqual, as specialized indy ships, should be inside the belts to take advantage of this protection. Not a POS necessarily.

I... like this.

It takes the 'kick me' sign off my back as a miner.

It makes me look tough and rugged, for being able to do heavy duty dangerous work. It makes me look, well, like a miner.

Asteroid belts are not embassies for Candy Land, and right now it feels like they are mistaken for that.

They are death blenders, where crazy people live on the edge to mine ore from psychotic spinning rocks in perpetual avalanche, and the unprepared are crushed without mercy.

/flex

Or you could just use common sense and always be aligned to a safe / station / what so ever.

As soon as someone starts to yellow box you, you hit the warp button and off you go.

Here's one solidly tanked, but pretty clearly not a suicide gank as well:
http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=15436306

thats interesting, the kill board shows only 9k to kill, but EFT showing EHP of 27k.

thats interesting, the kill board shows only 9k to kill, but EFT showing EHP of 27k.

thats interesting, the kill board shows only 9k to kill, but EFT showing EHP of 27k.