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[Issue] Speed

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Saori Rei Garoun Investment Bank	Posted - 2008.07.15 01:06:00 - [31]
Matrixcvd Caldari Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.07.15 03:28:00 - [32] speed is not broken, just alot of fail pvpers in this thread
Tzujeih GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.07.15 03:38:00 - [33] Agreeing with the problem.
Lord Testament	Posted - 2008.07.15 03:50:00 - [34] imo MWD should be removed from game BUT the ships that are supposed to be fast should get a bonus for AB use
Pithecanthropus	Posted - 2008.07.15 04:28:00 - [35] nerf speed --------------------------------- Pithecanthropus erectus, a name derived from Greek and Latin roots meaning upright ape-man.
Vaal Erit Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2008.07.15 08:10:00 - [36] Originally by: Ivor Gunn Speed is broken in 2 key areas. First, it is unusuable where appropriate. Speed tanks are binary depending on whether you are webbed. This means small ships meant to benefit from speed cannot use it to get under large tracking and suchlike. Webs need differentiation between classes, or possibly sig radius (with a possible "falloff) to fix this. Second, it is overly usable where inappropriate. It is the only viable option in small-gang pvp and obsoletes all others. This fact alone is sufficient evidence to warrant review at developer level. Specifically reviewed should be the significance of signature radius in tracking, the significance of speed in missile hits and the stacking of multiple methods of speed augmentation, including overdrives, broken polycarbons, drugs, gang links and implants. So, i put it to the csm to raise this issue, if only for review and affirmation of its state as broken, or even non-broken if that's how you swing. First point is valid, the 13km web sphere of death is pretty much on and off. Second point fails. It is not the only viable option in small gang pvp. In fact it is quite the opposite, you see a lot of BS/BC/C ships roaming around all the time. Let's give a real, actual ingame example, shall we? Is the majority of ships used in Factional Warfare nano? I think not Nano ships certainly do not obsolete anything. Many people have success against nano-gangs and kill them left, right, and center. First you talk about webs, then signature radius, then missile speed, then stacking penalties of nanoships. Pick ONE issue, and go wtih that. Don't just say "Lol, I think teh gamesors is broken, let's review everything!@!guys, right?" -- http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html
Dihania SniggWaffe	Posted - 2008.07.15 08:34:00 - [37] What speed issue? [hr] Sniggwaffe is recruiting
Zikka Hematite Rose Bionic Dawn	Posted - 2008.07.15 10:34:00 - [38] Well written post. One interesting idea would be to make web range dependant on sig radius. For example base web range could be 10km for a ship with a 100m sig radius. i.e. web range in km = (target sig radius in meters) / 10 So an intie with no MWD would only be webbed at 2km. An MWD intie would be webbed at 10km. An MWD cruiser at 20km or more. Suddenly sig radius is a real penalty to going fast. The Rapier bonus could also be adjusted to being a +4km per level of recon skill - so with recon 5 you get a minimum of 21km (so it is still possible to web an intie at all!), Hyena could have half that bonus so with EAF 5 they get a minimum of 11km webbing.
Dzajic	Posted - 2008.07.15 12:03:00 - [39] Fully supported. Webs and neuts make small ships for which primary and main tank should be speed (frigs, dessies and their T2 versions)sad. Also, how radial speed is calculated is borked. We only have transversal that is absolute to the grid. To visualize the problem, I'll borrow example someone else used to illustrate the problem in other thread. Two hummwies, each with a turreted machine gun. One is standing still, other is circling around the first one. MG on stationary jeep has to track the circling one all the time, and has to match angular velocity with it. MG on the jeep circling the stationary jeep can be pointed normally to its tangential velocity, straight toward the stationary target, and doesn't have to track at all. In EVE, we only have transversal being same for both ships.
Siebenthal	Posted - 2008.07.15 13:42:00 - [40]

Siona Windweaver	Posted - 2008.07.21 23:34:00 - [41]
I SoStoned	Posted - 2008.07.21 23:59:00 - [42] I agree with the op: Speed is broken. The T2 bonus implants break it even further. Look at Snakes/Slaves/Crystals - each of these gives a whopping 33%+ and 54%+ to their relevant stat,plus they stack upon dozens upon dozens of modules that affect the same exact ship stat (speed, armor, shield). Now, look at the implant sets that have zero modules to affect the stats that they adjust: Talismans (energy emission) and Halo (signature radius). These recieve bonuses by ship type *only, yet the bonuses given by these implants is only 17% and 33% respectively... why so annoyingly low when they can be modified by nothing* currently in the game, and the ones with several dozen modifying items recieve disproportionately high bonuses?
Christari Zuborov Amarr Ore Mongers Black Hand.	Posted - 2008.07.22 00:15:00 - [43] Disagree, Speed is not broken, and can be countered. Skill training in primary and secondary skills, time investment equated in experience to use effectively, and isk, reflects accurately in outcome vs. those who don't invest the same resources. When compared vs. others that invest at parity, the outcome is uncertain. Balanced.
Herring Caldari Alcatraz Inc. Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2008.07.22 02:05:00 - [44] tbh this issue could be resolved in many cases by allowing tractor beams to work in pvp as say a 25-30% web @20k (as opposed to a web 90% @10k). Of course making marauders a little bit more of a pvp machine than they already are
Josemite	Posted - 2008.07.22 04:56:00 - [45] Agreed. Speed is way too binary. If you're a speed tank against a turret based BS, you can't get hit. If you get webbed, you die. It's not interesting enough imo, there's not enough skill/circumstance aspect to it. Turrets should still be able to hit speed tanks (albeit very seldomly) and speed tanks shouldn't become fish in a barrel if they get webbed.
Steel Tigeress Gallente Steel-Wolfs	Posted - 2008.07.22 06:03:00 - [46] Originally by: Christari Zuborov Disagree, Speed is not broken, and can be countered. Skill training in primary and secondary skills, time investment equated in experience to use effectively, and isk, reflects accurately in outcome vs. those who don't invest the same resources. When compared vs. others that invest at parity, the outcome is uncertain. Balanced. Then you wouldnt mind boosting my Carrier to be a WTF solopwnbbq ship then right? As acording to you, training time investment, secondary skill requirments, and isk investment justify a broken mechaninc. Heck my carrier takes tons more training, time, and isk investment than your nano.. I should be able to leave the field of battle whenever I want, and choose my fights with impunity too.
shadowofflame	Posted - 2008.07.22 07:12:00 - [47]
ArmyOfMe hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2008.07.22 16:37:00 - [48] nothing wrong with speed as it is.
Alz Shado Ever Flow	Posted - 2008.07.22 16:51:00 - [49] I have no problem with velocity, it's momentum that doesn't feel "right" with the current system. Adjusting agility, scripting webbifiers for range vs strength, and boosting the webbed deceleration rates are the keys to fixing Nanos in a fair manner. //// ---------=== []= ---------=== \\\\ Rifter(RedBad) "Kill a man one is a murderer; kill a million, a conqueror; kill them all, a God." -- Jean Rostand
Christari Zuborov Amarr Ore Mongers Black Hand.	Posted - 2008.07.22 17:05:00 - [50] Originally by: Steel Tigeress Originally by: Christari Zuborov Disagree, Speed is not broken, and can be countered. Skill training in primary and secondary skills, time investment equated in experience to use effectively, and isk, reflects accurately in outcome vs. those who don't invest the same resources. When compared vs. others that invest at parity, the outcome is uncertain. Balanced. Then you wouldnt mind boosting my Carrier to be a WTF solopwnbbq ship then right? As acording to you, training time investment, secondary skill requirments, and isk investment justify a broken mechaninc. Heck my carrier takes tons more training, time, and isk investment than your nano.. I should be able to leave the field of battle whenever I want, and choose my fights with impunity too. You forgot a portion of what I stated, and that's experience. A carrier can do a great deal of damage vs. noobs, and seem like a solowpwnmobile, but the moment someone who knows what they're doing enters the scene is when you'll lose your ship. Same as a nano, only about 1000x times easier to kill than said carrier.

Stab Wounds	Posted - 2008.07.23 10:33:00 - [51] bump
Jim Raynor Shinra	Posted - 2008.07.23 10:41:00 - [52] All polycarb rigs in the galaxy should be taken off the market, stuffed into an Iteron MK5, and warped straight into the center of a sun and incinerated. Speed tanking is dumb, insanely dumb. i am tired of hearing people say its not dumb, because it is on the contrary, dumb. If any ship is going to 'speed tank', it should be frigates, as they die insanely fast otherwise. If I hear one more person say his dual LSE II Vagabond with 9k shields and 75/60/40/50 shield resists will instantly implode if it goes 3.5km/s instead of 8km/s I'm going to scream. Yes, this is ruining the freakin' game CCP, ruining it big time. /rawr ------ I'll make a sig later.
Wannabehero Absolutely No Retreat	Posted - 2008.07.24 04:30:00 - [53] Agreed, most excellent and concise summary of the issue -- Don't harsh my mellow
Molock Saronen	Posted - 2008.07.24 12:06:00 - [54]
Jeirth Republic Military School	Posted - 2008.07.25 00:17:00 - [55] Edited by: Jeirth on 25/07/2008 00:17:16 To my mind Eve should be a myriad of styles, when everyone and their dogs are fitting speed tanks on ships that aren't supposed to be speedy, it indicates to me something is broken. Edit: forgot the thumb
Matrixcvd Caldari Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.07.25 02:09:00 - [56] Originally by: Jim Raynor All polycarb rigs in the galaxy should be taken off the market, stuffed into an Iteron MK5, and warped straight into the center of a sun and incinerated. Speed tanking is dumb, insanely dumb. i am tired of hearing people say its not dumb, because it is on the contrary, dumb. If any ship is going to 'speed tank', it should be frigates, as they die insanely fast otherwise. If I hear one more person say his dual LSE II Vagabond with 9k shields and 75/60/40/50 shield resists will instantly implode if it goes 3.5km/s instead of 8km/s I'm going to scream. Yes, this is ruining the freakin' game CCP, ruining it big time. /rawr you are pretty hilarious, poor PVPer and have no clue how game mechanics work. nothing wrong with speed, just EVE attacking a disproportionate amount of losers
Mister Xerox	Posted - 2008.07.25 04:26:00 - [57] Originally by: Christari Zuborov Disagree, Speed is not broken, and can be countered. Balanced. Incorrect. Speed is broken, but it can be countered... with extremely specific shis running extremely specific setups. I.e. everyone needs a Hyena or better yet a Huginn/Rapier in their fleet... or many of them. They simply have very little other choice, at all, period, whatsoever. The only way to catch a speedfit is to slow it down, and only webs can (partially) slow down fast ships (unless they manage to coast out of range). Everyone should have a Sentinel or better yet a Curse (not a Pilgrim ) in their fleet to sap the speed ships of their energy, but that still won't enable you to catch them without the aforementioned minnie ships. A BS with neuts... eh, very limited utility unless the speeder wants to also scram. Thus, you have 1 class of ships that can potentially make a speed fit (and there are many, many speed fits not just 1 class of them) slow enough to strike and when the speed fit feels the tickle of a web, it's gone. Oh, unless the fleet has a Lach/Araz... but that's not as much a necessity as the Hyena/****/Hug. So, as you can see, speed does have its limited countermeasures, but it is broken under the current mechanic.
Mister Xerox	Posted - 2008.07.25 04:28:00 - [58] Edited by: Mister Xerox on 25/07/2008 04:28:42 Double post :/ Delete.
Matrixcvd Caldari Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.07.25 05:53:00 - [59] Originally by: Mister Xerox The only way to catch a speedfit is to slow it down, and only webs can (partially) slow down fast ships (unless they manage to coast out of range). This is by far the moast profound statement on the internetz today. If it is fast, you must catch it... by god we have pure genius here Originally by: Mister Xerox A BS with neuts... eh, very limited utility So cap warfare has limited utility? The curse is just a joke as well? can you do stuff in an internet spaceship without cap? drakes anyone? Originally by: Mister Xerox So, as you can see, I have no idea what I am talking about and pretty much just whine about speed. No really, i didnt know that
Eternal Error Exitus Acta Probant	Posted - 2008.07.25 06:00:00 - [60] First point is valid, second is not. The Web Sphere of Doom needs to be looked at. However, nano really isn't that big a deal and people should quit whining.



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