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CCP while you are fixing the game, FIX ECM k thanks

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Yvella Ore Mongers BricK sQuAD. 4	Posted - 2012.03.11 20:33:00 - [1] - Quote ECM is poor game design, any mechanic that leaves a person completely useless Yes this is an argument as old as the hills, but to summarise: 1. It is common for people to have dedicated ECM alts. This is a typical sign of an OP mechanic 2. ECM does not scale in fleet fights, but completely ruins, solo and small gang engagements 3. Has anyone seen the sabre/falcon gate camp. Did you just say risk free pvp..... Seriously address this now please
Doc Fury Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 521	Posted - 2012.03.11 20:35:00 - [2] - Quote Poasting in ECM whine thread #78965. The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'no.'
Yvella Ore Mongers BricK sQuAD. 4	Posted - 2012.03.11 20:38:00 - [3] - Quote and why do you think people keep whining.... Is it because ECM is a thoroughly beautiful balanced mechanic, that brings a fun dynamic to the game? er.. no. Also I have never seen CCP's position on ECM (expcept when they nerfed the falcon's range) and would be interested in engaging in iterative discussion with them, now they have discovered internet spaceships again.
Doc Fury Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 521	Posted - 2012.03.11 20:41:00 - [4] - Quote CSB, there's an ~~app~~ forum for doing that: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=topics&f=270 The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'no.'
Yvella Ore Mongers BricK sQuAD. 4	Posted - 2012.03.11 20:44:00 - [5] - Quote Ha Ha Ha Ha, you're a funny guy. Post with your main.
Arec Bardwin Perkone Caldari State 244	Posted - 2012.03.11 21:04:00 - [6] - Quote Yvella wrote: Ha Ha Ha Ha, you're a funny guy. Post with your ~~main~~ Falcon alt. Fixed. Looks like someone was just permajammed. I'll admit though; posting a rage thread on EVE forums is a great way to vent steam
Lek Arthie Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 7	Posted - 2012.03.11 21:04:00 - [7] - Quote Fit 1 ECCM, or maybe 2 ECCM, or maybe 3 ECCM, or maybe 4 ECCM. Problem solved you are immune to ECM. Buuuuuuuuuuuuuut waaaaaaaaaaait, you dont fit ECCM because you want to do damage AND have nice tank AND have a scrambler AND have damage mods AND have tracking mods AND have a sweet damage control for your hull AND have a webber AND have a MWD AND ... AND ... AND ... AND ... AND. So you prefer ANOTHER ECM nerf to make the module useless (ECM nerfs have already happened). You just want to do anything and not be able to get jammed. Pilots that are good at pvp know that ECCM is almost a must much like MWD or AB is a must. Maybe tomorrow you dont even like that (having to fit a MWD) and ask for a nerf on that also. L2pvp imo.
Yvella Ore Mongers BricK sQuAD. 4	Posted - 2012.03.11 21:16:00 - [8] - Quote Lek Arthie wrote: Fit 1 ECCM, or maybe 2 ECCM, or maybe 3 ECCM, or maybe 4 ECCM. Problem solved you are immune to ECM. Buuuuuuuuuuuuuut waaaaaaaaaaait, you dont fit ECCM because you want to do damage AND have nice tank AND have a scrambler AND have damage mods AND have tracking mods AND have a sweet damage control for your hull AND have a webber AND have a MWD AND ... AND ... AND ... AND ... AND. So you prefer ANOTHER ECM nerf to make the module useless (ECM nerfs have already happened). You just want to do anything and not be able to get jammed. Pilots that are good at pvp know that ECCM is almost a must much like MWD or AB is a must. Maybe tomorrow you dont even like that (having to fit a MWD) and ask for a nerf on that also. L2pvp imo. I think you may never have actually PVP'd. ECCM being broken is a major issue with ECM... Some practical examples. 1. I use a dual rep myrm with a low slot and a mid slot ECM + implant set. I have many times jumped it into falcon sabre camps, the normal outcome is that 1 jam cycle means i loose tackle and get no kills. Or I sit there and tank while the happy people bring moar falcons. Really true risk free PVP, as if anything like a real threat comes they all dock. 2. I used a 4 ECCM mod (+ implant) ferox (yes a ferox, did not want to look scary) and just wanted to nuke 1 guy. BUTROFL perma jammed by 2 falcons, for the 4-5 jam cycles that their pathetic DPS took. 3. Don't get me started on my dual ECCM anti-falcon abaddon being perma jammed by EC-300s ... Any more practical examples?
Reilly Duvolle Hydra Squadron 438	Posted - 2012.03.11 22:58:00 - [9] - Quote Yvella wrote: Any more practical examples? Oh feel free. After all, anecdotal evidence beats real math any day of the week, as exemplified by your EC-300s permajammed my dual ECCM Abbadon example.
baltec1 780	Posted - 2012.03.11 23:03:00 - [10] - Quote ECM has been fixed already.
Aiwha 101st Space Marine Force Nulli Secunda 189	Posted - 2012.03.11 23:18:00 - [11] - Quote ECM is fine. Bring more friends. Regards, LCpl. Aiwha-á Senior Recruiter
Vertisce Soritenshi Varion Galactic Tragedy. 1216	Posted - 2012.03.11 23:25:00 - [12] - Quote Calling the OP out for using "k thanks" at the end of the title. Dumbass... Nothing wrong with ECM. EvE is not about PvP.-á EvE is about the SANDBOX! - CCP!-á Open the door!!!
Sebastian N Cain Aliastra Gallente Federation 122	Posted - 2012.03.11 23:56:00 - [13] - Quote Reilly Duvolle wrote: Yvella wrote: Any more practical examples? Oh feel free. After all, anecdotal evidence beats real math any day of the week, as exemplified by your EC-300s permajammed my dual ECCM Abbadon example. Well, according to real math you will get jammed with ECCM, too Because ECCM doesn-¦t reduce the effect of ECM, but it merely reduces the probability of occurence. And the probability is even with ECCM high enough to successfully jam the target Because no one uses a single ECM module, everyone -being aware that this is game mechanic relying on probability- uses several to make sure it will have an effect. And unfortunately the math makes it clear that you don-¦t need that much to get a satisfying result. A flight of light ecm-drones will still retain a 70% chance of jamming you, even if you try to use ECCM to protect you. And they aren-¦t exactly the most effective ECM weapon available This is the reason no one uses ECCM. In any conceivable pvp situation that is really happening on a regular base in eve, it is completely useless, you waste a slot or more and get jammed anyway. Of course you can get lucky, but you can get lucky without ECCM as well, and it doesn-¦t have enough of an effect to make much of a difference. "You either need less science fiction or more medication." "Or less medication and more ammo!"
Willl Adama Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED 140	Posted - 2012.03.12 00:02:00 - [14] - Quote While I don't think ECM is a huge issue atm, it's definately not the most well thought-out and balanced mechanic in the game atm. There's been plenty of threads on this subject already though. Check out GARMONATION 9 right now! Check out our site for PVP videos, guides and audio commentaries: www.EVEisEASY.com
Reilly Duvolle Hydra Squadron 438	Posted - 2012.03.12 00:07:00 - [15] - Quote Sebastian N Cain wrote: Reilly Duvolle wrote: Yvella wrote: Any more practical examples? Oh feel free. After all, anecdotal evidence beats real math any day of the week, as exemplified by your EC-300s permajammed my dual ECCM Abbadon example. Well, according to real math you will get jammed with ECCM, too Yes. thank you for sharing with the rest of us that ECM is chance based. And the probability of a flight of EC-300 jamming a dual ECCM Abbadon is 6.2%. Now you calculate the chance of it beeing permajammed (say 10 cycles in a row).
Valentyn3 Deep Core Mining Inc. 107	Posted - 2012.03.12 00:28:00 - [16] - Quote Yes I demand less creative game play and more winmatar blobs plz. I don't always use hax. But when I do, it's because I'm an NPC.. http://i.imgur.com/PUZou.jpg
baltec1 780	Posted - 2012.03.12 00:33:00 - [17] - Quote Reilly Duvolle wrote: Yes. thank you for sharing with the rest of us that ECM is chance based. And the probability of a flight of EC-300 jamming a dual ECCM Abbadon is 6.2%. Now you calculate the chance of it beeing permajammed (say 10 cycles in a row). I had two falcons set their jammers on my poor liitle bomber that had no ECCM. They failed to get a single jam and I killed the hulk anyway
Valentyn3 Deep Core Mining Inc. 107	Posted - 2012.03.12 00:37:00 - [18] - Quote baltec1 wrote: Reilly Duvolle wrote: Yes. thank you for sharing with the rest of us that ECM is chance based. And the probability of a flight of EC-300 jamming a dual ECCM Abbadon is 6.2%. Now you calculate the chance of it beeing permajammed (say 10 cycles in a row). I had two falcons set their jammers on my poor liitle bomber that had no ECCM. They failed to get a single jam and I killed the hulk anyway They should have done the honorable thing a Falconer can do in that situation and self destruct for such a dishonor. I don't always use hax. But when I do, it's because I'm an NPC.. http://i.imgur.com/PUZou.jpg
baltec1 780	Posted - 2012.03.12 00:42:00 - [19] - Quote Valentyn3 wrote: They should have done the honorable thing a Falconer can do in that situation and self destruct for such a dishonor. I considered killing them too but I felt the shame of not only failing to jam me but having their lives spared to be the greater punishment.
Sebastian N Cain Aliastra Gallente Federation 122	Posted - 2012.03.12 00:47:00 - [20] - Quote Reilly Duvolle wrote: Sebastian N Cain wrote: Reilly Duvolle wrote: [quote=Yvella]Any more practical examples?[/quote Oh feel free. After all, anecdotal evidence beats real math any day of the week, as exemplified by your EC-300s permajammed my dual ECCM Abbadon example. Well, according to real math you will get jammed with ECCM, to Yes. thank you for sharing with the rest of us that ECM is chance based. And the probability of a flight of EC-300 jamming a dual ECCM Abbadon is 6.2%. Now you calculate the chance of it beeing permajammed (say 10 cycles in a row). That wasn-¦t calculated for a dual eccm abbadon, but for the ruppy i-¦m currently flying with one eccm (which is why i-¦m not using this module) And i think you miscalculated the chance for your dual eccm abbadon, by the way. "You either need less science fiction or more medication." "Or less medication and more ammo!"
Ptraci StoneWall Metals Productions Bloodbound. 405	Posted - 2012.03.12 00:49:00 - [21] - Quote Yvella wrote: ECM is poor game design, any mechanic that leaves a person completely useless You mean, like being in an industrial ship and warp scrambled kinda useless? Learn to play. Learn to fit ECCM. Learn to primary the falcon first. They really are not that hard to kill.
Fredfredbug4 Kings of Kill EVE Animal Control 73	Posted - 2012.03.12 01:43:00 - [22] - Quote Yvella wrote: ECM is poor game design, any mechanic that leaves a person completely useless That's why we have ECCM. A counter measure to the counter measure! Though if you do enough mining we might get ECCCM! A counter measure to the counter measure TO THE COUNTER MEASURE! Seriously the possibilities are endless for this stuff!
Valentyn3 Deep Core Mining Inc. 109	Posted - 2012.03.12 01:45:00 - [23] - Quote Fredfredbug4 wrote: Yvella wrote: ECM is poor game design, any mechanic that leaves a person completely useless That's why we have ECCM. A counter measure to the counter measure! Though if you do enough mining we might get ECCCM! A counter measure to the counter measure TO THE COUNTER MEASURE! Seriously the possibilities are endless for this stuff! Proliferation at it's worst I don't always use hax. But when I do, it's because I'm an NPC.. http://i.imgur.com/PUZou.jpg
Dirk Magnum Sarz'na Khumatari Ushra'Khan 229	Posted - 2012.03.12 01:52:00 - [24] - Quote Yvella wrote: 1. It is common for people to have dedicated ECM alts. This is a typical sign of an OP mechanic 2. ECM does not scale in fleet fights, but completely ruins, solo and small gang engagements Liked post because of this. Personally if this particular type of EWar is not removed from the game, it'd be my opinion that two things should be done: 1. add a second EWar type for Caldari, not currently in game. Overview scrambler has been my go-to suggestion on this matter for a long time. and/or 2. make ECM a defense-only module, which cannot activate unless the ship is attacked. This means it still serves as a GTFO option for someone minding their own business who gets caught by pirates. Oh but wait, obviously suggestion number two will be resolved by alts or friendlies dealing negligible damage to the ship before battle to trigger its ability to fire ECM, so that's out. Overview scrambler! Overview scrambler! Wooo! "For example, if you are thinking about selling a Republic Fleet Firetail as a regular Firetail, be sure that the market volume is high on regular Firetails and that there are plenty of buy/sell contracts for Republic Fleet Firetails. [...] The players most interested in Republic Fleet Firetails are going to be players flying regular ones."-á -- PB
Warzon3 Solar Storm The Forsaken. 21	Posted - 2012.03.12 01:58:00 - [25] - Quote FoF enough said
Vaal Erit Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 34	Posted - 2012.03.12 02:02:00 - [26] - Quote Yvella wrote: 1. It is common for people to have dedicated ECM alts. This is a typical sign of an OP mechanic 2. ECM does not scale in fleet fights, but completely ruins, solo and small gang engagements I always felt that #2 could be solved by giving jammers a stacking penalty like you know all the other ECM stuff like webs, TDs, damps, heck even PWNAGE has stacking penalty.
Rel'k Bloodlor Mecha Enterprises Fleet Villore Accords 156	Posted - 2012.03.12 02:04:00 - [27] - Quote People wine because its the stunn, and every one wines about being stunded, even tho its slow,and defence debuff that kills them. Why because, the stunn makes you feel helpless and a slow or a debuff makes you feel challenged, thats why. P.S. people make dedicated ECM alts less because its sooooo gooood and more so that its just dose one thing on a few hulls and thats it. Why make a latchie or Rapier alt? Well people do it's just that over time that alt gets in to other ships because they use Ewar skills that are usefull on other ships, what dose a falcon alt level to after falcon? I am in Factional Warfare. Have been from day one.-á-áI will never work for a mega corp in null-sec. Do not make FW like null-sec.-áMake FW worth our time. Reword us for what we already do.Give us some more activities to do.
Tanya Powers Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 850	Posted - 2012.03.12 02:11:00 - [28] - Quote Lek Arthie wrote: Fit 1 ECCM, or maybe 2 ECCM, or maybe 3 ECCM, or maybe 4 ECCM. Problem solved you are immune to ECM. Buuuuuuuuuuuuuut waaaaaaaaaaait, you dont fit ECCM because you want to do damage AND have nice tank AND have a scrambler AND have damage mods AND have tracking mods AND have a sweet damage control for your hull AND have a webber AND have a MWD AND ... AND ... AND ... AND ... AND. So you prefer ANOTHER ECM nerf to make the module useless (ECM nerfs have already happened). You just want to do anything and not be able to get jammed. Pilots that are good at pvp know that ECCM is almost a must much like MWD or AB is a must. Maybe tomorrow you dont even like that (having to fit a MWD) and ask for a nerf on that also. L2pvp imo. You, have never been perma jamed by frig rats before the anoms change (ecm adjustments on "some" rats), and you have never bee permanently jamed lately by 3 BS rats did you? 72 Strgh and some rats manage to Jamm me, now, last time it happened again with same scan strgth wasn't a Falcon but ECM drones...true story bro.
Ajita al Tchar Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 112	Posted - 2012.03.12 02:17:00 - [29] - Quote lol ECM white knighters. faclon alts detected. The all or nothing chance based mechanic is not very interesting. Also, to me even its current form feels like it's some remnant of an age past where it was intended as an intermediate step en route to developing something better.
Andski GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 2351	Posted - 2012.03.12 02:23:00 - [30] - Quote pubbies who whine about ECM are usually the same ones that keep engaging lone drakes on gates in their cookie cutter FOTM boats because it's not bait this time, guys! and proceed to whine on the forums about bricked out drakes "WeGÇÖre a professional Merc Alliance, like PL" ~ snot shot, 2012

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