Ha Ha Ha Ha, you're a funny guy. Post with your main Falcon alt.

Fit 1 ECCM, or maybe 2 ECCM, or maybe 3 ECCM, or maybe 4 ECCM. Problem solved you are immune to ECM.
Buuuuuuuuuuuuuut waaaaaaaaaaait, you dont fit ECCM because you want to do damage AND have nice tank AND have a scrambler AND have damage mods AND have tracking mods AND have a sweet damage control for your hull AND have a webber AND have a MWD AND ... AND ... AND ... AND ... AND. So you prefer ANOTHER ECM nerf to make the module useless (ECM nerfs have already happened). You just want to do anything and not be able to get jammed.

Pilots that are good at pvp know that ECCM is almost a must much like MWD or AB is a must. Maybe tomorrow you dont even like that (having to fit a MWD) and ask for a nerf on that also. L2pvp imo.

Any more practical examples?

Oh feel free. After all, anecdotal evidence beats real math any day of the week, as exemplified by your EC-300s permajammed my dual ECCM Abbadon example.

Well, according to real math you will get jammed with ECCM, too

Yes. thank you for sharing with the rest of us that ECM is chance based. And the probability of a flight of EC-300 jamming a dual ECCM Abbadon is 6.2%. Now you calculate the chance of it beeing permajammed (say 10 cycles in a row).

I had two falcons set their jammers on my poor liitle bomber that had no ECCM. They failed to get a single jam and I killed the hulk anyway

They should have done the honorable thing a Falconer can do in that situation and self destruct for such a dishonor.

Yes. thank you for sharing with the rest of us that ECM is chance based. And the probability of a flight of EC-300 jamming a dual ECCM Abbadon is 6.2%. Now you calculate the chance of it beeing permajammed (say 10 cycles in a row).

ECM is poor game design, any mechanic that leaves a person completely useless

ECM is poor game design, any mechanic that leaves a person completely useless

That's why we have ECCM. A counter measure to the counter measure!

Though if you do enough mining we might get ECCCM! A counter measure to the counter measure TO THE COUNTER MEASURE!

Seriously the possibilities are endless for this stuff!

1. It is common for people to have dedicated ECM alts. This is a typical sign of an OP mechanic
2. ECM does not scale in fleet fights, but completely ruins, solo and small gang engagements

1. It is common for people to have dedicated ECM alts. This is a typical sign of an OP mechanic
2. ECM does not scale in fleet fights, but completely ruins, solo and small gang engagements

Fit 1 ECCM, or maybe 2 ECCM, or maybe 3 ECCM, or maybe 4 ECCM. Problem solved you are immune to ECM.
Buuuuuuuuuuuuuut waaaaaaaaaaait, you dont fit ECCM because you want to do damage AND have nice tank AND have a scrambler AND have damage mods AND have tracking mods AND have a sweet damage control for your hull AND have a webber AND have a MWD AND ... AND ... AND ... AND ... AND. So you prefer ANOTHER ECM nerf to make the module useless (ECM nerfs have already happened). You just want to do anything and not be able to get jammed.

Pilots that are good at pvp know that ECCM is almost a must much like MWD or AB is a must. Maybe tomorrow you dont even like that (having to fit a MWD) and ask for a nerf on that also. L2pvp imo.

That wasn-¦t calculated for a dual eccm abbadon, but for the ruppy i-¦m currently flying with one eccm (which is why i-¦m not using this module)
And i think you miscalculated the chance for your dual eccm abbadon, by the way.

ECM is poor game design, any mechanic that leaves a person completely useless

Yes this is an argument as old as the hills, but to summarise:

1. It is common for people to have dedicated ECM alts. This is a typical sign of an OP mechanic
2. ECM does not scale in fleet fights, but completely ruins, solo and small gang engagements
3. Has anyone seen the sabre/falcon gate camp. Did you just say risk free pvp.....

Seriously address this now please

1. It is common for people to have high-sec alts. This is a typical sign of an OP mechanic.
2. ECM may not scale in fleet fights, but drone boats completely ruin ECM boats in small gang engagements more than half the time. Think about it.
3. Nothing is risk free. Nothing. See also: Smartbomb camp breaking.

Stuff in Eve has counters.

Smart people find them.

I wonder what sort of people start whine threads?

If ECM -ONLY- broke the lock of something it would be fine.

But look at these mods:

Tracking disruptor
Sensor dampener
(Target painter)

I remember when they nerfed sensor dampeners because they were too overpowered, but compared to ECM in its current state they are severely underpowered and there's a reason why ECM is the be all/end all type of module in small scale warfare. If ECM got changed into breaking the lock of a target ship instead of jamming it, or if ECM had its power reduced again/or had stacking penalties then I would think that ECM was more in line with other EWAR.

if only eve was a multiplayer game, I'd bring a friend along, bait a falcon, probe it out with a covops alt and slingshot my bro in a curse his way

LOLOL U SHOULD HAVE BROUGHT A BIGGER BLOB, DEAL WITH MY FALCON LOL ******* BADS

ECM is poor game design, any mechanic that leaves a person completely useless

Yes this is an argument as old as the hills, but to summarise:

1. It is common for people to have dedicated ECM alts. This is a typical sign of an OP mechanic
2. ECM does not scale in fleet fights, but completely ruins, solo and small gang engagements
3. Has anyone seen the sabre/falcon gate camp. Did you just say risk free pvp.....

Seriously address this now please

If ECM -ONLY- broke the lock of something it would be fine.

LOLOL U SHOULD HAVE BROUGHT A BIGGER BLOB, DEAL WITH MY FALCON LOL ******* BADS

ECM is poor game design, any mechanic that leaves a person completely useless

Yes this is an argument as old as the hills, but to summarise:

1. It is common for people to have dedicated ECM alts. This is a typical sign of an OP mechanic
2. ECM does not scale in fleet fights, but completely ruins, solo and small gang engagements
3. Has anyone seen the sabre/falcon gate camp. Did you just say risk free pvp.....

Seriously address this now please

ECM was designed to hurt solo and small scale PvP. It worked perfectly.

Learn to blob or gtfo.

<-------------- WoW is that way.

EC- drones are the worst. 10 of those can keep a carrier jammed sometimes indefinitely even if you fill your mid slots with ECCM.

I always felt that #2 could be solved by giving jammers a stacking penalty like you know all the other ECM stuff like webs, TDs, damps, heck even PWNAGE has stacking penalty.

What kind of stupid falcon pilots are you encountering that sit within effective drone range. Theres no way a decent falcon pilot should be 'completely ruined' by a drone boat.

Also Suggesting FoF's as an effective counter to ecm is absolutely ********.

ECCM is also not effective enough. In order to fit enough to effectively stop you from spending a whole fight jammed you make your ship practically useless for pvp.

So, not only will a flight of light ECM drones permajam a dual ECCMs Abbadon, they will even keep a Carrier permajammed even if you fill your midslots with ECCM.

So lets take an Archon. With 4 ECCM it will have a sensorstrenght of 509 points. If you put 10 EC-600 mediums on it, they will have a 2.9% chance of jamming it. Statistically, it will be jammed 17.4 seconds during a 10 minute fight. What you think is the probability of permajamming it?

What's the effective range of a drone boat?

Ever hear of Drone Link Augmentors? Well, what's the range?

I see I have to have a chat with Rico, he seems to recruit "not so very smart pilots" again.

Let's pretend the Falcon sits at optimal. Let's also pretend you have a sub-optimal setup on your ship where you sacrifice a vital highslot for a drone link aug (I know this makes your ship worse, but let's pretend, just to please this lolGustav). Let me then ask you a few questions..
a) How long does it take for your average light/medium/heavy drones to travel the ~70km the Falcon is likely to sit at?
b) How likely is it that the Falcon doesn't move, effectively "increasing" this travel range? Or are you always going to run away from the Falcon, hoping he goes closer so the drones travel shorter distance?
c) How likely is it that the Falcon and/or his pals won't kill your drones before they even arrive where he was?
d) How do you plan to send your drones to the Falcon if he's already jammed you before/after your drones were deployed, so you didn't get a certain auto-aggro on him in particular?

There's more to it, but I think we should start there, am worried you'd get a headache from all the advanced thinking here. And since your corp used to fly with mine, I'll be nice this time. <3

What's the effective range of a drone boat?

Ever hear of Drone Link Augmentors? Well, what's the range?

For the love of...

People, the ECM boat is the Eve equivalent of the lock down class found in any other MMO out there. They either spam stuns or have skill sets designed to lock down or interrupt other players skills. They always trade supreme ability at what they do for horrible survivability and are at their most annoying in 1v1. If you take them on alone you will not win. They might not kill you wither but you won't kill them.

Basline, no rigs, around 65K. Note that it can reach past your targeting range, so the drones will respond to an attack from beyond it.

would be cool if there where drone damps.

This guy has obviously been blapped by a sentry domi. You can read it between the line.

GǪactually, as an Ishtar fan, I've always wondered why the Gallente ewar isn't some form of drone-bandwidth-siphonGǪ thingamajig.

All the other factions have ewar that defeats their own ships:

Amarr GÇö cap-hungry turret ships GåÆ turret disruption and cap warfare.
Minmatar GÇö small and fast ships GåÆ target painting and webs.
Caldari GÇö capless, trackingless missiles GåÆ **** it, just nuke their targeting computers.

Gallente GÇö drones and blasters GåÆ messy lock-on and keeping people from running away?!

Makes no sense.

This is an interesting analysis.

I always assumed that the bonuses were meant to interfere with enemy ships.

Minmatar use projectile-based weapons with not-so-hot turret tracking and MWD, so Amarr neut them to slow them down and disrupt them to augment the effectiveness of their armor.

Amarr use big slow boats, so Minmatar exploit that by increasing their sig radius even further, and slowing them down to boat anchor mode.

Gallente use boats with drones and hybrids which prefer close-range combat, so the Caldari take away their lock capability from a respectable range.

Caldari use capless, tracklingless missiles and prefer to engage at range, so Gallente boats hobble their range and feature long points to compensate for the range discrepancy.

I am by no means convinced that I'm "right" about the intended design, but it's an interesting comparison to see the two viewpoints, just the same.

The only way to fix ECM, is to remove ECM.

Show me on the dolly avatar where the bad Falcon touched you.

I'd like to hear what the Falcon and Rook are for then.

This oughta be good.

I generally agree with this.

The largest annoyance with ECM is that feeling of not being able to do anything about it GÇö if it hits, you have to sit there for 20 seconds, no ifs, no buts, and then you can hope that at the end of the cycle, you might be given a chance to get back in the fight. It's the 20 seconds that cause the GÇ£permajammedGÇ¥ perception (regardless of whether it actually happens or not GÇö in a fight that lasts 100 seconds, a single successful jam that causes a 20s blackout + 5 seconds of reacquiring time is GÇ£permanentGÇ¥ enough).

Making targeted ECM have the same effect as an ECM burst would have a couple of advantages:

-+ Sensor damping would suddenly be very important GÇö yes, your BECAUSEOFFALCONs might knock the enemy ships out, but they'll be back to firing in 5-6 secondsGǪ unless you also brought a BECAUSEOFARAZU to ensure that it's actually 10-15 seconds instead.

-+ Size becomes an interesting component. Instead of small ships being unavoidably locked out by ECM due to their low sensor strength, making that dreaded permajam that more likely, they will still lose lock very easily, but they will also reacquire their targets quickly. An ECM ship can no longer simply put a jammer on an interceptor and know that he is now safe from being tackled since the jamming strength so easily overcomes those silly frigate sensors.

-+ ECM now has two kinds of counters GÇö the passive ECCM and the more active sensor booster (wellGǪ the active part is the reacquisition of your target, which is made all the more immediate with a booster).

Don't be silly. Falcons can't touch Avatars.

You have already made up your mind. Nothing I suggest for a new role would be satisfactory for you. The Falcon and Rook's new role is to be crammed directly up your fat, neckbeard ass.

How is that for a new role?

ECM was designed to hurt solo and small scale PvP. It worked perfectly.

Learn to blob or gtfo.

<-------------- WoW is that way.

Is it reasonable to ask people "bring friends" "bring ECM of your own"? Only if you want numbers > all. Should it be? What point is there with skillpoints, more expensive gear, etc, if blobs > all.

i dunno, multiplayer game?

MMORPG vs Sandbox

Think on that a second

MMORPG

sandbox...

http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=12714317

looks like you got owned in your cookie cutter sabre's own bubble by a rifter and a griffin! lol!

and that was just minutes before you posted this thread whining about your loss (((

3. drones, you can't jam sentries

This man gets it.

This guy has obviously been blapped by a sentry domi. You can read it between the line.

Actually I was a sentry domi back in the day, never had a chance to properly deploy this was also back then we called the sentry drones 'ship saws' especially when the moms deployed them. Then they unliked the carrier bonus from the drones and that sort of died.

Its interesting the main ones defending ecm are mostly blob pvp'ers and or their alts.Eccm and FOF is a joke if you want sustain any decent dps/tank/prop/point etc..Ya you can make the falcon/falcon's primary and make them bug off for about 20 secs but they will be right back before you can establish any kind of field advantage.All this being a small gang or even solo point of view.Furthermore if you dont think being perma jammed is a mechanic that needs to be looked at then ive got a pretty good idea of what your idea of fun pvp is.Its just amazing to me this hasnt been gimped yet.I guess some eve entities do have a sway on ccp after all.I have played on both ends of the issue and this is just my personal opinion on the matter.Feel free to belittle me and make yourself feel good in the process i could care less.

If you read the forums, you'd already know that even the Devs don't seem to know what changes are happening....so your answer may be wrong regardless.....

ECM is poor game design, any mechanic that leaves a person completely useless

Yes this is an argument as old as the hills, but to summarise:

1. It is common for people to have dedicated ECM alts. This is a typical sign of an OP mechanic

Mining, industry, spies, capitals... all OP

2. ECM does not scale in fleet fights, but completely ruins, solo and small gang engagements

only for the guys who didn't bring jams

3. Has anyone seen the sabre/falcon gate camp. Did you just say risk free pvp.....

get better intel, and what about a small gang fight on station and that triage thanny pops out. Jams really help with that...

Seriously address this now please

working as intended

EDIT:
OK missed one because I was mad

4. ECM does not have an effective counter, (lol sensor strength)..

sez you

So far the only pro-current-ECM answer that I can actually agree with is:

"ECM was designed to hurt solo and small scale PvP. It worked perfectly.

if you believe that then you're an idiot

Learn to blob or gtfo.

define blob

<-------------- WoW is that way."

Would love for a dev to comment on that.

ECM was designed to hurt solo and small scale PvP. It worked perfectly.

Learn to blob or gtfo.

<-------------- WoW is that way.

Not all of us have time to participate in 4 hour long fleets which sometimes take just as long to get started.By assuming eve is meant to be nothing but huge fleet battles is flawed and a one sided assumption.

I run a anti falcon falcon, its a falcon with all caldari jammers for the sole purpose of jamming the **** out of any other falcons, and it works well, permajams dual falcons, easy

And if you make ECM have the same effect as an ECM burst, there will be several side-effects: spider tanks will be near impossible to break, with the only hard counter to spider tanks being neuts. ECM will be worthless against any pilot carrying a single sensor booster. ECM will be worthless against naturally fast locking ships such as frigates and cruisers.

ECM is poor game design, any mechanic that leaves a person completely useless

Yes this is an argument as old as the hills, but to summarise:

1. It is common for people to have dedicated ECM alts. This is a typical sign of an OP mechanic
2. ECM does not scale in fleet fights, but completely ruins, solo and small gang engagements
3. Has anyone seen the sabre/falcon gate camp. Did you just say risk free pvp.....

Seriously address this now please

EDIT:
OK missed one because I was mad

4. ECM does not have an effective counter, (lol sensor strength)..

So far the only pro-current-ECM answer that I can actually agree with is:

"ECM was designed to hurt solo and small scale PvP. It worked perfectly.

Learn to blob or gtfo.

<-------------- WoW is that way."

Would love for a dev to comment on that.

3. Has anyone seen the sabre/falcon gate camp. Did you just say risk free pvp.....

If ECM -ONLY- broke the lock of something it would be fine.

But look at these mods:

Tracking disruptor
Sensor dampener
(Target painter)

I remember when they nerfed sensor dampeners because they were too overpowered, but compared to ECM in its current state they are severely underpowered and there's a reason why ECM is the be all/end all type of module in small scale warfare. If ECM got changed into breaking the lock of a target ship instead of jamming it, or if ECM had its power reduced again/or had stacking penalties then I would think that ECM was more in line with other EWAR.

More in line, in the sense as being just as bloody useless.

Falcon-alts are a bit lame indeed. But the people really whining about ECM being overpowered (even after all the nerfing), are the ones that never set a foot outside their precious ganking ships. One-dimensional whiners only caring about maximizing their DPS (so mentioning ECCM is blasphemy), that hate the extra dimension added by EW: "It burnsss! It burns us! Take it off us!"

More in line, in the sense as being just as bloody useless.

Falcon-alts are a bit lame indeed. But the people really whining about ECM being overpowered (even after all the nerfing), are the ones that never set a foot outside their precious ganking ships. One-dimensional whiners only caring about maximizing their DPS (so mentioning ECCM is blasphemy), that hate the extra dimension added by EW: "It burnsss! It burns us! Take it off us!"

And where exactly does the ECCM go on a ship with 2 mid slots? Are we all supposed to always fit ECCM and fly around with a full set of race specific sensor implants all the time now because we might encounter ECM? Not that this even works well. Even in a maelstrom with a full set of jackals and ECCM a max skilled falcon pilot can still get back to back jamms on you. A better solution would be to increase sensor strength of combat ships across the board enough to significantly reduce the chance of being jammed while leaving EAS and Logi the same, making falcons anti support, support. Also adding in penalties to sensor strength for fitting remote repair, sensor damp, tracking disruptor, and target painter modules.

Let me come with an example of ECM ruining the day :)
I was heading home in low sec after having been on a fleet the day before, I was flying a shield cane and came across a small gate camp of 2 hurricanes and a talos(with blasters) I figured, 3 options... engage, gate crash or overload mwd away...

Because I love thrills, I decided I wanted to engage, there was at least a chance I could kill the talos before dieing myself, slim chance, but it was there...

I uncloak and start burning towards the gate and the talos, he engages me, and then I engage him.
then falcon uncloaks 100km away, and im jammed on first cycle, I think I managed to get two shots off on the talos...

The fight lasted less than that cycle of jamming...

So heres where I personly have a problem, ECM removes any chance of the target fighting back (unless drones, smartbombs, and "defender missiles" are available)

Problem with ECM is the long duration someone is put out of the fight for at a sucessful jam... how much is it? 20-24sec? that is a very very long time considering that in pvp... fights normally last between 15sec to 5mins (depending on size), unless its a blop vs blop

I think the best way to balance ECM is decrease the cycle time of jams, (increase the cycle time of the module, i don't care)

That may be the case, but if it is you've already been told in very clear terms how to deal with it.

If you think you're likely to see ECM, bring drone boats.

Always deploy sentries first.

Either you'll get primaried by the ECM and the drone boats will engage, or the drone boats will get ECM'd and...hey...they'll engage anyway, along with you!

If drone boats are supposed to be the answer, then the behaviour of the drone AI needs to be fixed. Even when set to focus fire, I still see them attacking two targets from time to time (just had that last night).

Also, what is that nonsense that you have to deploy drones in aggressive mode BEFORE you are aggressed for them to attack? And deploying them while already getting shot to ribbons they just merrily fly around and do nothing? That needs fixing as well. If you are being shot at, they should go for whoever is doing the shooting automatically.

And before anyone says "ZOMG that would be overpowered", they already do that, just not starting with the first target. As in, you have 3 ships shooting you. You target one, and send aggressive drones to attack. When it pops, they will merrily switch to the next ship shooting you without being told to do so, and without you having to target it. The mechanic is already there. It's just the trigger for this AI behaviour is botched.

To the OP,

For what it's worth, I totally agree. I haven't been playing very long, a few months on and off. And as a mission runner, it is INCREDIBLY obvious just how broken some ECM modules are. When I'm fighting Caldari NPCs, it is not uncommon to be permanently jammed for 4-5 mins at a stretch with just 3 jamming enemies, just sitting there and being able to do absolutely nothing because you had to pull your drones back to avoid aggro and redeploying them while already under attack (issue described above) does nothing.

Really poorly balanced game mechanics, IMHO.

ECM should be a static (calculated the same way the %chance is now) effect to rate of fire depending on the mods fitted and the target's ships sensor strength. Stacking penalties or not need to be considered carefully. This way an ECM boat could jam out a number of small ships or 1 large ship.

Then suddenly Target Dampeners become totally OP.

Please try again; this time taking into consideration the entire game, not a problem in a box.

Oh, you mean the current effective countermeasure to ECM will be OP if you change ECM?

If solo, be quicker...

What kind of 2-midslots ships are we talking about? The kind of ships that can bring heavy DPS to a fight and therefore should be a prime target for ECM? The same kind of ships that trade their lack of midslots for an abundance of lowslots in which they can put Backup Arrays?

You say it yourself: A MAX SKILLED FALCON, that's why. It takes millions of skillpoints to be good at that a single role and you don't bring much else to the fight in the sense of dps, tank or versatility. The #1 role and priority of jammers is to (reliably) lock down DPS (especially something as nasty as a Mael). Anti-logi is a secondary role, because you can't do that if you're dead and you WILL be primary.

Don't touch ECM, ECCM or sensor strength. That's not balancing, that's just taking ECM of the table as a suitable tactic. A MUCH better way to balance EW on the battlefield is to give the players more options to counter it.

- Fix the stupid drones, that will simply sit on their asses if deployed by a jammed ship.
- Make F.O.F. missiles actually useful by having them prioritize ships that are jamming you.

Your (Amarrian?) ship can't use either of these and you're too fidgety about losing any DPS or tank to get your sensor strength up? Well then being easy to lock down is the price you'll have to accept in the name of balance, for focusing on one-dimensional tank&gank.

Ok, so you can lock to 14k, a winmatar fleet can hold point at 20-24k, razu can hold point on you at 44k w/o a fleet booster.

You would die in a fire as if you were jammed.

ECM is fine. Bring more friends.

You mean, bring more blobs?

Two points you should note:
1. A Falcon stops you from locking at ANY RANGE. The jammed Drake can't do ANYTHING. The Drake being attacked by the 3 other ewar cruisers simultaneously CAN do stuff within 14km range. A silly intie pilot could get close, or the Drake could even help his fleet by destroying the drones attacking him.

2. The fact that we are debating this means that my point wins automatically. Three ships should CLEARY better than one. This is not the case. Arguably, ONE ship outclasses three.

Both ships are screwed, but the Falcon'd one is screwed MORE for only one third of the price.

Yes I demand less creative game play and more winmatar blobs plz.

The Drake can just warp off when jammed by a Falcon, keep all it's tank & prop modules running, while in the hands of the 3 recons it would inevitably die without any chance of retaliation. That Arazu can keep swapping scripts so that the Drake never gets a lock on the drones before they are pulled and relaunched.

Falcon doesn't outclass anything, but yes, it's still gay as ****.




The drake can't just warp off it is tackled. Without being ECM'd a properly fit solo/ small gang ship can wriggle free, neuts/own tackle + o/h mwd etc etc etc.

What is annoying me with ECM is it completely crushes small PVP, unless you go lol kite ship (hi winmatar) and that is dull as dish water and leaves blaster ships in a terrible state.

What winds me up even more is that ECM doesn't scale so well in fleet fights, it just evaporates....

Would love a Dev to get into an adult discussion on CCPs position on this, I have not in any of my game time seen CCP explain what they think about ECM and e-war balance. But then :CCP:

Consider this:
Drake A is being neuted, scrammed, tracking disrupted, webbed, target painted and sensor dampened by a Pilgrim, Arazu and Rapier. It can still fire its missiles at close targets, control its drones, and remain part of the fight.
Drake B is being jammed by ONE Falcon. It can't do a single thing.

I'd rather be Drake A.

There's a problem when one ewar type is superior to all others combined.

4. ECM does not have an effective counter, (lol sensor strength)..

Smart bombs, drones and FoF missiles. :P

OP sounds butt-hurt. Love to hear the story of how he was spanked by ECM. :)

My vote: saying it's over-powered it idiotic. Using the tools available to you is smart gameplay.

Falcons are pretty gay. I know, I have one.

The only situation where a Falcon actually adds something to PVP is when you have a Falcon in a small gang and fight a slightly larger or similar sized gang. In huge fleets it's pointless. Otherwise it is plain and simple, overpowered as a ************.

Sure, the Arazu is a counter. The Arazu is also a useless **** with ludicrous cap, otherwise no benefit to its gang, and will either be a) glass tank b) slow as **** because its armor tanking. The entire concept of having a ship (the Falcon) that can effectively eliminate 1-2 of any ship from a fight, and having only a single counter to that ship, a counter which otherwise is absolute **** and is only useful for anti-Falcon, is dumbtarded. Likewise the concept of requiring every member of a gang to sacrifice some of its tank or support mods to fit ECCM, which often won't even ******* work, because of a single enemy Falcon is silly as ****.

There is only one solution. Falcon needs the nerfbat. It still needs to stay as a purposeful, effective force multiplier but in its current form it is stupid. I suggest, because I am important and all, that Falcons only be allowed to jam one target at a time. Don't even let it activate jammers on anything else while it has them active on its first target. Blam. You have a ship that can still blackout an enemy ship from a fight, but doesn't completely ruin said fight by jamming 4 ******* guys with lucky cycles, and is counterable by having fast ships able to burn out, tackle and kill it while it's busy jamming its one target.

I generally agree with this.

The largest annoyance with ECM is that feeling of not being able to do anything about it GÇö if it hits, you have to sit there for 20 seconds, no ifs, no buts, and then you can hope that at the end of the cycle, you might be given a chance to get back in the fight. It's the 20 seconds that cause the GÇ£permajammedGÇ¥ perception (regardless of whether it actually happens or not GÇö in a fight that lasts 100 seconds, a single successful jam that causes a 20s blackout + 5 seconds of reacquiring time is GÇ£permanentGÇ¥ enough).

Making targeted ECM have the same effect as an ECM burst would have a couple of advantages:

-+ Sensor damping would suddenly be very important GÇö yes, your BECAUSEOFFALCONs might knock the enemy ships out, but they'll be back to firing in 5-6 secondsGǪ unless you also brought a BECAUSEOFARAZU to ensure that it's actually 10-15 seconds instead.

-+ Size becomes an interesting component. Instead of small ships being unavoidably locked out by ECM due to their low sensor strength, making that dreaded permajam that more likely, they will still lose lock very easily, but they will also reacquire their targets quickly. An ECM ship can no longer simply put a jammer on an interceptor and know that he is now safe from being tackled since the jamming strength so easily overcomes those silly frigate sensors.

-+ ECM now has two kinds of counters GÇö the passive ECCM and the more active sensor booster (wellGǪ the active part is the reacquisition of your target, which is made all the more immediate with a booster).

Poasting in ECM whine thread #78965.

ECM is fine, makes it easy to see who it a talentless moron.

weekly bump, don't see no blue

People wine because its the stunn, and every one wines about being stunded, even tho its slow,and defence debuff that kills them.
Why because, the stunn makes you feel helpless and a slow or a debuff makes you feel challenged, thats why.


P.S. people make dedicated ECM alts less because its sooooo gooood and more so that its just dose one thing on a few hulls and thats it. Why make a latchie or Rapier alt? Well people do it's just that over time that alt gets in to other ships because they use Ewar skills that are usefull on other ships, what dose a falcon alt level to after falcon?