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Notarri
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Posted - 2008.06.17 06:15:00 -
[31]
I like the idea of a running post of accounts banned, or at least a response to petitions reported on macro farmers once they are removed to know your reporting had any effect what so ever. Though some people seem to be in the know about the results (from what is in this post), the common player would like some feedack that their efforts mean a dang thing.
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Jinx Barker
GFB Scientific
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Posted - 2008.06.17 06:18:00 -
[32]
Edited by: Jinx Barker on 17/06/2008 06:19:03
 Originally by: CCP RyanD
Crossposted for reference.
He he he - a 6 billion ISK birthday present... that is marvelous.
Edit:
And it looks like that was the LAST time the recipient of the 6 Billion ISK B-Day present ever posted. Wonder why?!
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Guntaro
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Posted - 2008.06.17 11:12:00 -
[33]
Edited by: Guntaro on 17/06/2008 11:13:36
This game is more about making real money for a lot of players, than having fun. Thats why RMT will never stop. Do a search and you will find many isk selling sites selling billions.
Eliminate the isk intensiveness of this game and the RMT will finally stop.
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Tharukan Desm'ar
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Posted - 2008.06.17 11:41:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Guntaro
Edited by: Guntaro on 17/06/2008 11:13:36
This game is more about making real money for a lot of players, than having fun. Thats why RMT will never stop. Do a search and you will find many isk selling sites selling billions.
Eliminate the isk intensiveness of this game and the RMT will finally stop.
That wont stop people wanting isk. CCP just has to keep up with what they're doing with their two pronged attack of making it hard as hell for sellers and buyers. It wont ever fully disappear unless game controls become changed in a way that makes it hard if not impossible for macros to be implemented. And as long as there are people willing to buy in game currencey there will always be people setting up shop to cater to the opportunity. However illegal it might be.
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Lady Aja
No Angels Here
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Posted - 2008.06.17 11:47:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Sikozu Prioris
Originally by: Fi Khan
Are they in cahoots? Getting kickbacks perhaps? Nothing is ever done. You would think after the years EVE has been up, there would be SOME SORT of protection or ANYTHING to combat them. So far the only thing that can be done is file a petition and wait for CCP to delete it.
Just because you arnt seeing anything been done doesnt mean they arnt doing anything.
Its far better for ccp to slowly investigate isk selling rings so that only isk sellers get banned and not legitimate players. Banning an entire operation of 10's or 100's of accounts is far better then slowly banning connections off one by one. Once the account is suspected to be a isk seller, better to let it continue for a while so it can lead ccp to their other accounts.
i once petitioned two accounts that was blantently laundering isk. few hours later they was perma banned.
from my understanding. isk sellers no longer sell just isk. they sell implants, t2 ships and mods and even faction goodies.. they have taken to invention like flies to crap.
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Ethidium Bromide
ZEALOT WARRIORS AGAINST TERRORISTS
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2008.06.17 11:56:00 -
[36]
it's my birthday in about 1 months.. can i has your stuff please!
only legit isk, no farmed ones
Originally by: George Petsch
Nochricht: Dei schwarer StroinlSser trifftn Karli[Baatzis] und ruiniert erm so richtig de Dosn, 1343.7 schhodn, oida.
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lpha centurion
Confrerie des ombres
Roids'Are'Us
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Posted - 2008.06.17 11:56:00 -
[37]
Edited by: lpha centurion on 17/06/2008 11:58:02
Edited by: lpha centurion on 17/06/2008 11:56:42
Drastic ways to ban macroers :
-> Image Ingame Control (IIC)
After a random moment of connexion, a windows appear asking to copy a number, if no answer after 15 minutes : kick  .
-> ISK Transfer Amount Control (ITAC)
GMs are able to check the accounts of players who have received or given a lot of money to other characters (lets say 2b+ in a week ?). These guys are highlighted in the GM panel 
-> Computer Configuration Ban (CCB)
I think it is possible but a dev answer is needed. A good way to ban people is to ban them and their hardware. A same PC can't create a new account on EvE if it is CCB.
-> Yulai Internal Financial Protection Team (YIFPROT)
Creation of a new team in ISD of players able to check if players are macroers or not. They are in charge to search them (perma-cloacking, local invisible) and to inform GMs on the possibility of macroing players.
Hope some of these ideas are possible and not too stupid, I really hate macroers destroying the mining economy 
--------------------------
Oneiromancer > What sound does the test server do in your language?
Phthonos > *crash*
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Celeste Coeval
The Gosimer and Scarab
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Posted - 2008.06.17 11:58:00 -
[38]
They do, but as with all things people only see what is not being done.
Originally by: Lance Fighter
This is either a troll or a noob... Ill take the noob route. |
Death4free
Darkstar Industrial
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Posted - 2008.06.17 12:00:00 -
[39]
remmeber that gtc sales cut down on illegal rmt by a ton since you can get isk legaly
Eve information kiosk
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WA Dragon
108 Field Squadron RM RE
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Posted - 2008.06.17 12:04:00 -
[40]
OK JUST HOLD ON A SECOND HERE REWIND.
Q. how do the isk sellers obtain the isk to sell?
A. Macros.
Q. WHO did not ban the macros at the start?
A. CCP.
I am sorry but CCP are the makers of their own down fall. With out macros isk sellers could not exisist. One other small point here. You seem to think macro mining only goes on in empire, whole corps macro mine in 0.0 make billions of isk and sell it on the net. Thats where the real problem is not some nooblet in an osprey in 1.0 space mining Scordite. The macro mining corps in 0.0 have no one to report them in petitions. Thats where the real problem is. Please get real people open your eyes for heven sake.
To be or not to be......sorry can you repeat the question? |
Malcanis
We are Legend
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Posted - 2008.06.17 12:29:00 -
[41]
Originally by: WA Dragon
OK JUST HOLD ON A SECOND HERE REWIND.
Q. how do the isk sellers obtain the isk to sell?
A. Macros.
Q. WHO did not ban the macros at the start?
A. CCP.
I am sorry but CCP are the makers of their own down fall. With out macros isk sellers could not exisist. One other small point here. You seem to think macro mining only goes on in empire, whole corps macro mine in 0.0 make billions of isk and sell it on the net. Thats where the real problem is not some nooblet in an osprey in 1.0 space mining Scordite. The macro mining corps in 0.0 have no one to report them in petitions. Thats where the real problem is. Please get real people open your eyes for heven sake.
Macros are banned.
CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that. |
An Anarchyyt
Battlestars
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.06.17 12:49:00 -
[42]
Originally by: WA Dragon
OK JUST HOLD ON A SECOND HERE REWIND.
Q. how do the isk sellers obtain the isk to sell?
A. Macros.
Q. WHO did not ban the macros at the start?
A. CCP.
I am sorry but CCP are the makers of their own down fall. With out macros isk sellers could not exisist. One other small point here. You seem to think macro mining only goes on in empire, whole corps macro mine in 0.0 make billions of isk and sell it on the net. Thats where the real problem is not some nooblet in an osprey in 1.0 space mining Scordite. The macro mining corps in 0.0 have no one to report them in petitions. Thats where the real problem is. Please get real people open your eyes for heven sake.
It's like, why don't they just make crime illegal, that ought to stop it right?
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
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Declan Intaki
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Posted - 2008.06.17 12:59:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Lithalnas
actually CCP waits to get a list together and then ban entire operations, 200+ accounts in one downtime.
Do you actually know this for a fact, or are you one of those posters that just make up stuff, and completely confuse and derail the discussion? (Proof please)
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Tarminic
Black Flame Industries
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Posted - 2008.06.17 13:55:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Declan Intaki
Originally by: Lithalnas
actually CCP waits to get a list together and then ban entire operations, 200+ accounts in one downtime.
Do you actually know this for a fact, or are you one of those posters that just make up stuff, and completely confuse and derail the discussion? (Proof please)
I CBA to look it up, but I remember about a year ago CCP banned a lot of accounts in one fell swoop as part of their investiation process. In the triple digits, I believe.
Generally CCP's methodology - from what I can tell - goes something like this:
1. Find suspicious character through activity logs/petitions/etc
2. Note how that player interacts with other players, who they interact with, who picks up items they randomly jettison, who trades with them at stations, etc
3. Build a log of mysterious donation that player is giving out to other players that it has not otherwise interacted with on different accounts paid for with different methods
4. After building up a large log of buyers, sellers, and farmers, the buyers have the ISK deducted and the sellers/farmers are banned
Based on what the GM's have said in this form, ISK laundering alts generally have 200-300 BILLION ISK going in and out of their wallets per week.
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Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.81 (Updated 4/8) |
Stakhanov
Metafarmers
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Posted - 2008.06.17 14:12:00 -
[45]
Ingunn local was at 100 one day , and at 0 the next. Farmers slowly came back and with new accounts. So yes , we have proof that GMs are actively banning them.
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Taedrin
Royal Hiigaran Navy
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Posted - 2008.06.17 14:28:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Stakhanov
Ingunn local was at 100 one day , and at 0 the next. Farmers slowly came back and with new accounts. So yes , we have proof that GMs are actively banning them.
That is the best news I've heard all day.
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Stakhanov
Metafarmers
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Posted - 2008.06.17 14:33:00 -
[47]
Very old news too 
Nowadays farmers are more spread out , so GMs take much longer to ban them. This is why my corp plays an important role by directly harming their income. With enough pressure , they will leave a lowsec area.
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Alrione
Dark Destiny Inc.
Total Eclipse Syndicate
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Posted - 2008.06.17 14:37:00 -
[48]
Quick, CCP, post what you are doing against isk sellers, so they can be ahead of you.
3/10
--------------------------------
:-O Sig got nerfed. Remaking >.< |
Dramaticus
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.06.17 15:41:00 -
[49]
JihadSwarm has a plan to deal with macrominers.
Please don't use RL pictuers of players in Sig without permission. - WeatherMan |
Midday Toker
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Posted - 2008.06.17 16:44:00 -
[50]
ok, well i definitly know a corp, that are hard-core isk farmers. They actually work in shifts, loggin off enmass, and then logging back on enmass.
And i think they share teh accounts aswell, cuz i killed one guy, they did their shift change, and he had no idea who i was
I obviously cant prove they sell the iskies, as thats something CCP would have to check, how should i go about reporting this? would a standard petition suffice?
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Hemp Invader
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Posted - 2008.06.17 18:07:00 -
[51]
I think that CCP needs to create a program that verifies if the mouse is being moved by a person or by another program. That will kill the buggers. Plus...when you ban the macro...ban the mac address of their computer ( or better yet the entire computer >:) )
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MilowFV
Echo Heavy Industries
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Posted - 2008.06.18 02:43:00 -
[52]
Where has the swarm been anyway its been weeks sense I last heard of massive sucide strikes in high sec.
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Carrisa Montega
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Posted - 2008.06.18 02:53:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Sikozu Prioris
Originally by: Fi Khan
Are they in cahoots? Getting kickbacks perhaps? Nothing is ever done. You would think after the years EVE has been up, there would be SOME SORT of protection or ANYTHING to combat them. So far the only thing that can be done is file a petition and wait for CCP to delete it.
Just because you arnt seeing anything been done doesnt mean they arnt doing anything.
Its far better for ccp to slowly investigate isk selling rings so that only isk sellers get banned and not legitimate players. Banning an entire operation of 10's or 100's of accounts is far better then slowly banning connections off one by one. Once the account is suspected to be a isk seller, better to let it continue for a while so it can lead ccp to their other accounts.
Even that doesn't work. In the time it takes CCP to investigate 200 people and then ban them, that ISK selling corp has already made enough IRL money to buy new acounts and still skim a profit. Trust me on this, I come into this game rom Guild Wars, a baby MMO as it is however, it still has it's problem with gold sellers. They practically have a pandemic going on in that game with gold sellers. They tried CP's approach and it failed, then they started going after buyers and banning their accounts. But this causes a whole other set of problems as people were being banned un-fairly from trading isk across alt characters and from friend to friend.
In the end, there is nothing you can do about it. It will always happen in an MMO.
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syphurous
Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2008.06.18 03:14:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Hemp Invader
I think that CCP needs to create a program that verifies if the mouse is being moved by a person or by another program. That will kill the buggers. Plus...when you ban the macro...ban the mac address of their computer ( or better yet the entire computer >:) )
I lolled.
Most people will read this thinking it's part of my post, when its actually my sig :P
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Jurgen Cartis
Interstellar Corporation of Exploration
Nex Eternus
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Posted - 2008.06.18 04:51:00 -
[55]
Originally by: lpha centurion
Edited by: lpha centurion on 17/06/2008 11:58:02
Edited by: lpha centurion on 17/06/2008 11:56:42
Drastic ways to ban macroers :
-> Image Ingame Control (IIC)
After a random moment of connexion, a windows appear asking to copy a number, if no answer after 15 minutes : kick .
-> ISK Transfer Amount Control (ITAC)
GMs are able to check the accounts of players who have received or given a lot of money to other characters (lets say 2b+ in a week ?). These guys are highlighted in the GM panel
-> Computer Configuration Ban (CCB)
I think it is possible but a dev answer is needed. A good way to ban people is to ban them and their hardware. A same PC can't create a new account on EvE if it is CCB.
-> Yulai Internal Financial Protection Team (YIFPROT)
Creation of a new team in ISD of players able to check if players are macroers or not. They are in charge to search them (perma-cloacking, local invisible) and to inform GMs on the possibility of macroing players.
Hope some of these ideas are possible and not too stupid, I really hate macroers destroying the mining economy
IIC is bad because Eve does not need more modal windows. . . Think about it, random modal window pops up in the middle of you sparring with a buddy. Now you can't turn off your guns or call of your drones until you deal with it. Oops. Now take this situation and apply to small gang PvP and worse, fleet PvP at your leisure. Especially mass fleet PvP with 15+ minute grid loading times. . . In short, far more annoying to us than macros. They just have some flunky make the rounds every 10 minutes and fix as needed.
ITAC is useful, but the GMs probably already have access to ISK logging. The thing is, many people have alts who make money for them or are otherwise going to be sloshing around large sums of ISK. Telling the difference requires some thought, and not just an automated tool. Now, if he's sloshing out ISK in large amounts to many unrelated characters, start looking, hard.
CCB is very powerful, but has huge backfire potential. Particularly when the macroers sell the now useless hardware to people who aren't involved, and if they use cybercafes in any part of their operation. A large operation may be able to simply switch machines that are CCB'd to Eve to another game, and move other computers to pick up the slack.
YIFPROT might be useful. I'm not sure if GMs are cloaked to local, but I'm pretty sure that GM Cloaks are better than Covops Cloaks. There are other tools that can be deployed in concert with this that could be very useful, particularly timing how long certain activities take. Humans will have some random element, simpler macros will be precise to the millisecond.
Checking on anyone who's on 23/7 seems useful, though again it takes some care, as people DO log in simply to try to make their enemies station camp them eternally despite them being very much AFK. A bit of GM watching should clear up which is which though.
--------------------
ICE Blueprint Sales
FIRST!! -Yipsilanti
Pfft. Never such a thing as a "last chance". ;) -Rauth |
lpha centurion
Confrerie des ombres
Roids'Are'Us
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Posted - 2008.06.18 12:56:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Jurgen Cartis
Originally by: lpha centurion
Edited by: lpha centurion on 17/06/2008 11:58:02
Edited by: lpha centurion on 17/06/2008 11:56:42
Drastic ways to ban macroers :
-> Image Ingame Control (IIC)
After a random moment of connexion, a windows appear asking to copy a number, if no answer after 15 minutes : kick .
IIC is bad because Eve does not need more modal windows. . . Think about it, random modal window pops up in the middle of you sparring with a buddy. Now you can't turn off your guns or call of your drones until you deal with it. Oops. Now take this situation and apply to small gang PvP and worse, fleet PvP at your leisure. Especially mass fleet PvP with 15+ minute grid loading times. . . In short, far more annoying to us than macros. They just have some flunky make the rounds every 10 minutes and fix as needed.
Maybe it could be better to limit IIC to people camping in asteroid belts ? 
--------------------------
Oneiromancer > What sound does the test server do in your language?
Phthonos > *crash*
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Loyal Servant
Contraband Inc.
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Posted - 2008.06.18 13:36:00 -
[57]
Originally by: lpha centurion
-> Image Ingame Control (IIC)
After a random moment of connexion, a windows appear asking to copy a number, if no answer after 15 minutes : kick .
-> ISK Transfer Amount Control (ITAC)
GMs are able to check the accounts of players who have received or given a lot of money to other characters (lets say 2b+ in a week ?). These guys are highlighted in the GM panel
-> Computer Configuration Ban (CCB)
I think it is possible but a dev answer is needed. A good way to ban people is to ban them and their hardware. A same PC can't create a new account on EvE if it is CCB.
-> Yulai Internal Financial Protection Team (YIFPROT)
Creation of a new team in ISD of players able to check if players are macroers or not. They are in charge to search them (perma-cloacking, local invisible) and to inform GMs on the possibility of macroing players.
Hope some of these ideas are possible and not too stupid, I really hate macroers destroying the mining economy
The ideas are not stupid, just suggested 1,000 times over.
Popups wont work because....
Farmers are in sweatshops.
It's a guy using 5+ accounts at once, he will see the popup and respond.
May affect a grand total of 1 macro.... and I am being generous there.
Watching isk flow?
We already know large transfers of isk are checked.
Banning hardware?
Easy to proxy/change network card MAC addresses, etc etc.
Banning hardware is just not possible.
Special ISD division to watch them?
Suggested and IIRC ultimately shot down by CCP.
Voogru or MongWen would have more info on that one.
Thing is, there is a lot of talk about macros in this thread and as someone that hunts farmers - macros are used for certain but in controlled situations.
There are market macros, and ice farming macros.
The alts that sit in jita 4-4 for example are usually market macros and the mackinaws in the belts are ice macros.
AFAIK they only use the macro in the ice field during the transfer of the ice to the industrial, if you watch your overview very closely and carefully you will see a jetcan appear and disappear instantly.
it will never appear in space, just too fast.
On another note, one of the farmers that was talking to me did tell me that they are now using secure cans because they did not have to script creation of the new jetcan with all the mackinaws around it.
And, now for flaimbait:
The GTC system is how most farmers stay in the game.
They do not pay for this game the way most players do... they pay far less.
The way they pay less is all of the disposable isk they make and buy time cards.
I know a few guys that pay thousands of dollars just in time cards and i have seen the guys they are selling cards to.
Part of the problem here is that people paying $1,000 a month in time cards to buy moms or faction kit don't care - and why should they?
So, they sell a card or a stack of cards to farmers, with dirty isk and the farmers may not be banned this month, or next month and the player gets this dirty isk that is now made clean.
Of all the guys I know that have done the GTC for isk deal, and it's like 4 people - all knew they were selling cards to farmers but did not care because the isk they get from them is blessed.
Now, how do players know it's a farmer for sure? they cannot.
However, when you see the post in the timecode bazaar, and you see a post by 'fgjkkdsfagkjsdfg' asking for cards for himself and 'toibjrkjn' 'sdfgkhjksg' 'dfjhgdjfhgjdfg' 'ijhvbmnugnf' 'klfblkkjnfbjf'
You see where I am going with this...
Draw your own conclusions, people.
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