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Appropriate to have a chair that is biased against two of his reps?

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Batwigg B and D	Posted - 2008.06.16 03:09:00 - [1] This is a unmodified (Other than removing some irrelevant bits of smacktalk against Jade, the Caldari State, Goons, and the CSM in general) chatlog from Tama Local chat, a few minutes ago; Jade Constantine > hello there Pearljammer 5657 > cool actually met someone from CSM Batwigg > ahahaha Batwigg > Hey Jade Jade Constantine > Hey hey Batwigg > How is muting voted reps going? Jade Constantine > so goon alts right? :) Batwigg > So JAde Batwigg > Why do you think people who disagree with you are goon alts? Batwigg > Are you biased against goons or something? Jade Constantine > yep I think goons are rubbish Batwigg > ooh Batwigg > postin' this on coad Jade Constantine > post this too :) Jade Constantine > "goons are eve's greatest carebears - the biggest failures in 0.0, too scared to see their outposts explode" Jade Constantine > might as well make your post worthwhile :) Is it really acceptable for a CSM Chair to be openly biased against two of his fellow voted representatives? And to openly admit this in a crowded local chat? Can this Council really get anything done when we have a powertripping, openly hostile against his fellow representatives, childish chair such as Jade Constantine? All the meetings so far have dissolved into childish bickering, with JC in part to blame for most of it. Then there is of course the infamous muting incident, where a elected Representative was muted for merely disagreeing with JC - Is this really acceptable behavior for someone who is supposed to head up a group that will present the concerns of us, the playerbase to the game developers?
Jade Constantine	Posted - 2008.06.16 03:14:00 - [2] Originally by: Batwigg Is it really acceptable for a CSM Chair to be openly biased against two of his fellow voted representatives? And to openly admit this in a crowded local chat? Yes, this is Eve Online not "my little pony online". Don't like hearing somebody's opinion? Don't ask. CSM Manifesto 2008 \| Destroy Outposts!
Batwigg B and D	Posted - 2008.06.16 03:16:00 - [3] Originally by: Jade Constantine Originally by: Batwigg Is it really acceptable for a CSM Chair to be openly biased against two of his fellow voted representatives? And to openly admit this in a crowded local chat? Yes, this is Eve Online not "my little pony online". Don't like hearing somebody's opinion? Don't ask. More like, don't like hearing someone's opinion? Just mute him from the channel.
Batwigg B and D	Posted - 2008.06.16 03:21:00 - [4] Jade Constantine, you were not voted into office as the Chairman of a EVE Online entity. You were voted in as the chairman of a real life council of EVE Online players, voted in to present the concerns and wishes of the playerbase to the makers of the game. Your behavior has during your term been completely inappropriate. The excuse of "THIS IS EVE ONLINE LOL I CAN DO WHATEVA I WANT" does not apply. You are not being flown out to Iceland to meet Xhagen and the gang as Jade Constantine the EVE Player, you are voted in as Andrew Cruse, the person. Your behavior has been on par with what I would expect of a 12 year old child, and frankly, you are a embarrassment. You have betrayed the trust of your voters, myself included, by acting in a self-serving, childlike, power abusing manner. Your latest antics of assuming those who disagree with you are "Goon alts" just serves as a glimpse into your bratty little mind. You are a disgrace, please do the CSM a favor and resign.
KeratinBoy GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.06.16 04:13:00 - [5] Exactly what do you think this thread will accomplish?
LaVista Vista	Posted - 2008.06.16 05:56:00 - [6] It's a bit like asking Harry S. Truman what he thought about communists and then blaming him for it. Obvious troll is obvious. Please do us a favor and don't post anymore.
Batwigg B and D	Posted - 2008.06.16 06:22:00 - [7] Edited by: Batwigg on 16/06/2008 06:22:01 Originally by: LaVista Vista It's a bit like asking Harry S. Truman what he thought about communists and then blaming him for it. Obvious troll is obvious. Please do us a favor and don't post anymore. The difference is, Harry S. Truman wasn't serving on a council with a bunch of Communists, representing a public that included a whole bunch of communists. I am not trolling. Jade Constantine has in the past shown some very questionable behavior (Gagging a rep for no apparent reason other than disagreeing with him, for instance). His behavior has on more than one occasion held up the council for hours. Then, he openly states that he in fact despises the alliance that two of his fellow reps belong to, and by proxy themselves - Does this not strike you as incredibly unprofessional? I am not trolling. I feel that this is a very valid point. Do you honestly feel that JC's behavior on the council has been exemplary?
LaVista Vista	Posted - 2008.06.16 06:29:00 - [8] Originally by: Batwigg I am not trolling. I feel that this is a very valid point. Do you honestly feel that JC's behavior on the council has been exemplary? No. But I think it's unreasonable to blame him completely. It's been trial and error thus far. CCP's expectations have been lacking and the role of the chair was largely undefined. So I think it's wrong to blame Jade. He was put under A LOT of pressure.
Goumindong Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.06.16 06:42:00 - [9] Originally by: LaVista Vista It's a bit like asking Harry S. Truman what he thought about communists and then blaming him for it. Obvious troll is obvious. Please do us a favor and don't post anymore. No, Truman was head of political organization that was in struggle with a communist political organization. Asking Harry Truman what he thought of communists and then blaming him for it would be kinda like asking Darius JOHNSON what he thought of BoB sympathizers inside Goonswarm and then blaming him for it, completely removed from his responsibilities on the CSM. It is only a right analogy if you believe that the CSM is a tool for alliances to gain in game power over other alliances. I, and i suspect many other people, find that idea abhorrent.
LASER WATCHER GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.06.16 06:43:00 - [10] Originally by: LaVista Vista It's a bit like asking Harry S. Truman what he thought about communists and then blaming him for it. Obvious troll is obvious. Please do us a favor and don't post anymore. Truman didn't represent the communists and the Americans. _____

Batwigg B and D	Posted - 2008.06.16 06:58:00 - [11] Originally by: LaVista Vista Originally by: Batwigg I am not trolling. I feel that this is a very valid point. Do you honestly feel that JC's behavior on the council has been exemplary? No. But I think it's unreasonable to blame him completely. It's been trial and error thus far. CCP's expectations have been lacking and the role of the chair was largely undefined. So I think it's wrong to blame Jade. He was put under A LOT of pressure. Wait. It's unreasonable to blame Jade Constantine for Jade Constantine's actions? Is that what you are saying? I'm not blaming JC for all of the CSM's failings, I'm blaming him for his own personal failings in his work as the CSM Chairman.
Martin VanBuren GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.06.16 07:00:00 - [12] Originally by: LaVista Vista Originally by: Batwigg I am not trolling. I feel that this is a very valid point. Do you honestly feel that JC's behavior on the council has been exemplary? No. But I think it's unreasonable to blame him completely. It's been trial and error thus far. CCP's expectations have been lacking and the role of the chair was largely undefined. So I think it's wrong to blame Jade. He was put under A LOT of pressure. So what, ccp didn't explicity say not to be a crazy irrelevant douche, so man whatevs
Waterfowl Democracy The Ministry of Indigenous Affairs GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.06.16 07:03:00 - [13] Jade being biased isn't exactly news. In one of the very first threads after the results were announced Jade declared that he wouldn't be having anything to do with issues raised by people in Goonswarm. Someone find it before Jade edits it to "WALL OF DENIAL" or something.
Wat4shi	Posted - 2008.06.16 07:15:00 - [14] Originally by: Goumindong Originally by: LaVista Vista It's a bit like asking Harry S. Truman what he thought about communists and then blaming him for it. Obvious troll is obvious. Please do us a favor and don't post anymore. No, Truman was head of political organization that was in struggle with a communist political organization. Asking Harry Truman what he thought of communists and then blaming him for it would be kinda like asking Darius JOHNSON what he thought of BoB sympathizers inside Goonswarm and then blaming him for it, completely removed from his responsibilities on the CSM. It is only a right analogy if you believe that the CSM is a tool for alliances to gain in game power over other alliances. I, and i suspect many other people, find that idea abhorrent. You're getting to be like Jade, posting walls of text sometimes. You need to stay like this, short and sweet.
Waterfowl Democracy The Ministry of Indigenous Affairs GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.06.16 07:16:00 - [15] http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=759968&page=11#322 "Speaking personally I've got absolutely no interest answering goonie concerns or questions at this point in the process."
Yuki Santara Yurai-Tenshin Zaibatsu Celestial Imperative	Posted - 2008.06.16 09:05:00 - [16] So you are saying, if ** organisations win seats in a local German government (which happened), other politicians are not allowed to have biases against Neos any more? The sense must be hiding somewhere. I'm not comparing Goons to *s, but Jade's opinions are his own. Whether they are appropriate or not is another question, and one that ranting on forums is not going to answer. If a majority of the council would have a problem with his opinions, they would find a way to deal with it. Otherwise this is just the way things are and we will find out what the voters think about it on the next election. The filtered word being a common abbreviation of "Nationalsozialisten".
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong	Posted - 2008.06.16 09:06:00 - [17] I see nothing wrong with this. Jade isn't a robot. honestly someone else would just as ****ed if she said "I love goons" because she would be biased.
Batwigg B and D	Posted - 2008.06.16 11:00:00 - [18] Edited by: Batwigg on 16/06/2008 11:01:23 Originally by: MotherMoon I see nothing wrong with this. Jade isn't a robot. honestly someone else would just as **ed if she said "I love goons" because she would be biased. Noone is demanding that the chair be a emotionless robot, but there is such a thing as professionalism and tact. Jade has let his own personal opinions precede his duties as chairman on more than one occasion - Gagging a rep for disagreeing with him, wording proposals he disagrees with in as negative a manner as possible when announcing issues during CSM meetings, and finally, discriminating against players simply based on what alliance they chose to join (Stating that he absolutely will not answer questions or issues raised by a member of Goonswarm), and has generally acted in a supremely arrogant manner. Since someone so brilliantly compared Goons to the government of Germany from 1933 to 1945 (Thanks word filter), thereby opening that oh-so-awesome can of worms, I'm going to go ahead and compare Jade to a homophobe - He assumes that all Goons (homosexuals) are somehow beneath him and not worthy of his attention, by virtue of simply being Goons. Jade also seems to be obsessed with some kind of "Goon Agenda", as evidenced by his assumption that those that criticize him are "Goon Alts", similar to many rabid homophobes in real life, who believe in some kind of "* Agenda".
Yuki Santara Yurai-Tenshin Zaibatsu Celestial Imperative	Posted - 2008.06.16 12:12:00 - [19] I didn't know one is being born a Goon, of course that changes everything! My condolences. Joking aside, you'll have a point as soon as the first Goon publicly takes on the opposite point of view. Until then, I see nothing inappropriate about Jade treating them as one entity.
Illaria	Posted - 2008.06.16 14:32:00 - [20] yawn Where did you take the idea that Jade has to be impartial, just because he has the chair. Jade is first and foremost a CSM member and a such entitled to to have a public political opinion. As he won the chairmanship by popular vote, he just acquired an additional administrative role, that doesn't void his right to express his opinion on things. GoonSwarm needs to realize that there are people out there, that don't like them. Hardly news ---- Darius Johnson, not MY CSM.

Goumindong Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.06.16 14:41:00 - [21] Originally by: Illaria yawn Where did you take the idea that Jade has to be impartial, just because he has the chair. Jade is first and foremost a CSM member and a such entitled to to have a public political opinion. As he won the chairmanship by popular vote, he just acquired an additional administrative role, that doesn't void his right to express his opinion on things. GoonSwarm needs to realize that there are people out there, that don't like them. Hardly news It is not O.K. that the CSM be used as a platform to exert a partisan ingame agenda. It is not O.K. that the chair use that position to exert power over other representatives.
Martin VanBuren GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.06.16 16:00:00 - [22] you would have more success trying to talk to a dog about post-modernism than to a european about sensible limitations on authority
Illaria	Posted - 2008.06.16 16:09:00 - [23] Originally by: Martin VanBuren you would have more success trying to talk to a dog about post-modernism than to a european about sensible limitations on authority cough, cough Don't you have one of the most powerful executives in the western world over there in the colonies? Just sayin' ---- Darius Johnson, not MY CSM.
Esmenet	Posted - 2008.06.16 16:20:00 - [24] Originally by: Martin VanBuren you would have more success trying to talk to a dog about post-modernism than to a european about sensible limitations on authority Lol what planet are you living on?
Martin VanBuren GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.06.16 16:54:00 - [25] Edited by: Martin VanBuren on 16/06/2008 16:53:52 Originally by: Esmenet Originally by: Martin VanBuren you would have more success trying to talk to a dog about post-modernism than to a european about sensible limitations on authority Lol what planet are you living on? Planet FREEDOM Also, Illaria, the fact that you would bring that up illustrates your ignorance so perfectly I don't even have to add anything :)
KeratinBoy GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.06.16 17:26:00 - [26] Originally by: LaVista Vista It's a bit like asking Harry S. Truman what he thought about communists and then blaming him for it. The incident during the CSM meeting, taken on its own, is forgivable due to teething problems with the set up. (And a lack of a forum where these issues can be discussed by the CSM during the week with each other) Entertainingly, the most discussed issue so far seems to be Jade's conduct during that meeting and his conduct after. His conduct after is not excusable. It was a tantrum, blaming everybody but himself for his words and his actions. Are you honestly happy with a chair who will throw a strop when he doesn't get his way? Is that why you joined the CSM?
Venomire GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.06.17 06:58:00 - [27] Originally by: Illaria Originally by: Martin VanBuren you would have more success trying to talk to a dog about post-modernism than to a european about sensible limitations on authority cough, cough Don't you have one of the most powerful executives in the western world over there in the colonies? Just sayin' I don't think you "get" checks and balances.
Illaria	Posted - 2008.06.17 07:17:00 - [28] Edited by: Illaria on 17/06/2008 07:26:14 Edited by: Illaria on 17/06/2008 07:18:12 Edited by: Illaria on 17/06/2008 07:17:25 Originally by: Venomire I don't think you "get" checks and balances. Are these the same checks and balances that allowed the executive to lie about WMD in Iraq, the installation of Guantamo and Abu'Ghreib? Are we talking about the checking and balancing of a congress that only dared to oppose the current administration, after the public opinion on the whole Iraq adventure went to hell? I know that you have been taught in high school that your political system is the apex of the civilized world, but unfortunately there are heretics out there in the rest of the world that are somehow irreverent to it. vOv The world is a cold, harsh place. ---- Darius Johnson, not MY CSM.
Martin VanBuren GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.06.17 08:00:00 - [29] Yo illaria are you just copy pasting that from michael moore's website or are you actually 13 years old
Exodus Alpha Eve University Ivy League	Posted - 2008.06.17 08:04:00 - [30] Another one?



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