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Thanks for FW it's great fun but you just forgot one thing...

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Yin Sue	Posted - 2008.06.17 08:43:00 - [1] Thanks for FW it's great fun but you just forgot one thing... JUMPCLONES. I've been loving FW, lots of mess lots of fun, sounds of blasts and explosions everywhere... but... If you indeed made that expansion to get newer or Empire players into PvP, you forgot to provide one essential thing: ONE jump clone, that 8.0 requirement is way to hard to get. I haven't been missioning like crazy I haven't got such a standing with any NPC corp. With 2 of my 3 characters I'm not participating in FW just from fear of losing my +4 set of implants. Please allow militia members to have ONE jumpclone (not more) as a benefit for enrolling in FW eventhough they've haven't got 8.0 standing. Thanks!
Furb Killer USC Militia	Posted - 2008.06.17 08:48:00 - [2] You can just get jumpclones using special corporations with good standing (that you join for one day), and i believe also people use carriers with clone bays to sell jumpclones. A jumpclone cost arround 10 million afaik, so nothing compared to your +4 set.
Yin Sue	Posted - 2008.06.17 08:54:00 - [3] Originally by: Furb Killer You can just get jumpclones using special corporations with good standing (that you join for one day), and i believe also people use carriers with clone bays to sell jumpclones. A jumpclone cost arround 10 million afaik, so nothing compared to your +4 set. I agree there are indeed workarounds, but you have to give me the fact they're not all that convenient and not everyone will think/know about them especially those "newer or Empire players we want to get into PvP" that FW aims at. On a personal note I don't want to join a corp for one day just for a JC because I care about my employment history, and people could interpret that as an unreliable person who just jumps from one corp to the next.
Estel Arador	Posted - 2008.06.17 09:10:00 - [4] There also are 0.0 stations where you can get a jumpclone (for a fee, usually). Another option is to have someone else in your corp do the grinding to get jumpclone standings with a NPC corporation noone else in the corp has standings with. Once that's done everyone in the corp can get jumpclones. But I have a feeling this is one of those threads where you don't like the 'main' way of doing something and also don't like all the alternatives and thus the game should change to accommodate you. Never seen such a thread before, nope. Estel Arador corp services (high-sec POS/JCs) just 120M isk!
Admiral Apex Imperial Academy	Posted - 2008.06.17 09:14:00 - [5] question, how does this attaining of the jump clone thing work? can you get the jump clone and move him somewhere? Mission running: not as exciting as smashing your hand with a hammer, yet more painful.
Quelque Chose New Eden Roller Disco Supply	Posted - 2008.06.17 09:30:00 - [6] Originally by: Furb Killer You can just get jumpclones using special corporations with good standing (that you join for one day), and i believe also people use carriers with clone bays to sell jumpclones. A jumpclone cost arround 10 million afaik, so nothing compared to your +4 set. That's still 10 mil every time you get podded though. Plus ship replacement. That's steeper than I'd want to go. I don't think you should get free jump clones for FW though, that's just too much hand- holding. I was able to grind out some clones in a few weeks' missioning under these conditions: I can't run lvl 4s yet, I refuse to kill empire faction navy ships in missions (which means a lot of delays owing to refused missions), I was working on 6.7 with another corp simultaneously, and I would often go 2 or 3 weeks between missioning time because I absolutely detest the standings grind. But I did it, and I'm the only one in my corp with standings so now the whole damn corp has jump clones: sweet =D. If you want it badly enough you can do it, probably maybe faster than me. ___________________________________________
Megan Maynard Out of Order	Posted - 2008.06.17 09:37:00 - [7] Implants=OVERRATED
Quelque Chose New Eden Roller Disco Supply	Posted - 2008.06.17 09:46:00 - [8] Originally by: Megan Maynard Implants=OVERRATED That too, especially +4s. By the time you get your learning skills up the difference between +3s and +4s is very small and not worth the cost IMO. ___________________________________________
Captain Falcord The Python Cartel	Posted - 2008.06.17 09:50:00 - [9] Edited by: Captain Falcord on 17/06/2008 09:50:38 Learn to spam "Warp to" when close to dead. I've been pirating for 4 months, lost 50 ships and I only got podded once, and that was because I thought the pilot in front of me was a friend of mine and not a threat (wrong :P) Unique Ship Skills!
Sapphrine Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2008.06.17 09:51:00 - [10] you're in empire / lowsec... why you worried? Chance of losing your pod is negligible.
Furb Killer USC Militia	Posted - 2008.06.17 09:51:00 - [11] The ammount of people who get podded when they should easily have been able to warp out is frightening in FW. Just keep pressing the damn warp to button when you are about to get destroyed. Sure you wont make it always, but 90% of the time you should make it. (only once during fleet battle i was too late with selecting something in overview, luckily only one frigate got me, and i was warpjammed but kept pressing jump through button on the gate i was on. With 30% structure on pod left the gate finally let me jump).
Serafiel 101st Space Marine Force United Expeditionary Force	Posted - 2008.06.17 09:54:00 - [12] Originally by: Quelque Chose That's still 10 mil every time you get podded though. Plus ship replacement. That's steeper than I'd want to go. As far as I know You dont loose your jump clone wher you get podded :) gunboat diplomacy level 5 :)
Agor Dirdonen	Posted - 2008.06.17 09:56:00 - [13] Originally by: Quelque Chose Originally by: Furb Killer You can just get jumpclones using special corporations with good standing (that you join for one day), and i believe also people use carriers with clone bays to sell jumpclones. A jumpclone cost arround 10 million afaik, so nothing compared to your +4 set. That's still 10 mil every time you get podded though. Plus ship replacement. That's steeper than I'd want to go. I don't think you should get free jump clones for FW though, that's just too much hand- holding. I was able to grind out some clones in a few weeks' missioning under these conditions: I can't run lvl 4s yet, I refuse to kill empire faction navy ships in missions (which means a lot of delays owing to refused missions), I was working on 6.7 with another corp simultaneously, and I would often go 2 or 3 weeks between missioning time because I absolutely detest the standings grind. But I did it, and I'm the only one in my corp with standings so now the whole damn corp has jump clones: sweet =D. If you want it badly enough you can do it, probably maybe faster than me. No, it's not, you're confusing jumpclones and standard clones. When you were able to create a jumpclone thanks to standings, corp standings, getting one in 0.0 stations, ...., you have one unless you manually destroy it. You can move that jumpclone around as you want by going to the station where you want it to be and then activating the jumpclone in the station where you got it. Your mind moves that the remote station, leaving a jumpclone behind in the station where you want one. Now, you move the character around to the area where you want to live and you have a workihg jumpclone. When you get podded after loosing your ship, you don't loose a jumpclone. The jumpclone is not touched at all. You move into the standard clone that's available in the medical bay and the one you can upgrade to hold more skillpoints. You wake up in that station, have to buy a new clone and can get going again. The whole time, your jumpclone(s) you had are not touched at all. So no, it's not 10 mil each you get podded, it's 10 mil each time you want to make an extra jumpclone (yes you can have more then 1). You'll still need to buy a new clone after you get podded but that's much cheaper as long as you don't have very high skillpoints.
Quelque Chose New Eden Roller Disco Supply	Posted - 2008.06.17 09:58:00 - [14] Edited by: Quelque Chose on 17/06/2008 09:59:17 Originally by: Serafiel Originally by: Quelque Chose That's still 10 mil every time you get podded though. Plus ship replacement. That's steeper than I'd want to go. As far as I know You dont loose your jump clone wher you get podded :) I don't know, haven't been podded in one yet tbh but I was kind of under the impression that the clone was just destroyed; it would make sense given that they stay where you leave them upon clone jumping. Otherwise if I'm wrong and you're right what happens? Does the clone go back to its original install station sans any implants? edit OK, see above. But still the question remains, what happens to the jumpclone? Does it reappear in the last station it was docked in or what? / stuff's confusin' ___________________________________________
Agor Dirdonen	Posted - 2008.06.17 09:59:00 - [15] Originally by: Serafiel Originally by: Quelque Chose That's still 10 mil every time you get podded though. Plus ship replacement. That's steeper than I'd want to go. As far as I know You dont loose your jump clone wher you get podded :) Indeed you don't.
Delichon State Protectorate	Posted - 2008.06.17 10:01:00 - [16] Originally by: Quelque Chose That's still 10 mil every time you get podded though. No, you pay once and you have the clone forever. I've seen quite a few players (even a 1-2 year old 0.0 chars), who don't understand the JC mechanics. In order to make it clear, imagine that jumpclones are a teleportation device. You instal a JC on a station - meaning that you instal a portable jump-in beacon, to which you can teleport from any other station using the jumpclone menu on you character screen. Once the jump is conducted, your body becomes the JC (the beacon) and your JC becomes your body. Implants are stored in the clone, so if you had implants and you jump into a JC with no implants - there would be no implants in your new body. But aside from implants, JC has no effect on podding what so ever. Once you are killed, you are transfered to the station where your medical clone is (set this at the cloning facility inside the station) and game continues as if nothing happend (remember to upgrade the med. clone though). 8.0 standings are very easy to get + 4 implants are overrated (unless we are talking about training leadership skills on a generic 99993 Achura char) + in lowsec it would take extreme lag or ill fate to get podded (spam warp out once your ship is in structure) + there are legal game mechanics that can be used to minimize (and even somehow "profit" from being podded) Plus you body provides entertainment for the attacker :) ------------------------------------------ All nerfs are meant to hurt you personally. Next time they are going to nerf you directly. Eve Forums.
Furb Killer USC Militia	Posted - 2008.06.17 10:01:00 - [17] I got experience, when you are podded in JC, you move to your medical clone, you get new medical clone (that you got to upgrade to your SP). So you still got your original jumpclones, and if you clone jump to one after being podded, your medical clone you just waked up in becomes jumpclone.
Agor Dirdonen	Posted - 2008.06.17 10:02:00 - [18] Originally by: Quelque Chose Originally by: Serafiel Originally by: Quelque Chose That's still 10 mil every time you get podded though. Plus ship replacement. That's steeper than I'd want to go. As far as I know You dont loose your jump clone wher you get podded :) I don't know, haven't been podded in one yet tbh but I was kind of under the impression that the clone was just destroyed; it would make sense given that they stay where you leave them upon clone jumping. Otherwise if I'm wrong and you're right what happens? Does the clone go back to its original install station sans any implants? You have the two types of clones: * jumpclones * standard 'anti-podding' clones So if you have a jumpclone in station A and the standard clone in a medical bay at station B. You're playing along, bad bad pirate shows up, pops your ship and your pod and you wake up in station B. When you look in the list of jumpclones, you'll be happy to see that your jumpclone is still in Station A. You will have to buy a new standard clone in station B though before you move out to avoid skillpoint losses but that has nothing to do with jumpclones. Some people who are starting to go to lowsec for the very first time after months/years of highsec missioning might want to check their standard clone grade before moving to lowsec though. Make sure the skillpoint level on the clone is higher then the amount of skillpoints that you currently have or you'll loose a level or two of your skills when you get podded.
Quelque Chose New Eden Roller Disco Supply	Posted - 2008.06.17 10:05:00 - [19] OK, well thanks for that. I had everything figured out except the death part. Cheers. But, if they're permanent that seems like all the more reason not to hand one out for free just for joining the militia. ___________________________________________
nahtoh Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2008.06.17 10:09:00 - [20] Originally by: Quelque Chose Edited by: Quelque Chose on 17/06/2008 09:59:17 Originally by: Serafiel Originally by: Quelque Chose That's still 10 mil every time you get podded though. Plus ship replacement. That's steeper than I'd want to go. As far as I know You dont loose your jump clone wher you get podded :) I don't know, haven't been podded in one yet tbh but I was kind of under the impression that the clone was just destroyed; it would make sense given that they stay where you leave them upon clone jumping. Otherwise if I'm wrong and you're right what happens? Does the clone go back to its original install station sans any implants? edit OK, see above. But still the question remains, what happens to the jumpclone? Does it reappear in the last station it was docked in or what? / stuff's confusin' Remember not to jump from a station you already have a clone stored at and do not have your jump clone stored at your med station. ========= "I am not saying there should be capital punishment for stupidity, but why can`t we just take the safety labels off everything and let the problem fix its self
Agor Dirdonen	Posted - 2008.06.17 10:11:00 - [21] Originally by: Quelque Chose OK, well thanks for that. I had everything figured out except the death part. Cheers. But, if they're permanent that seems like all the more reason not to hand one out for free just for joining the militia. I agree completely
WA Dragon 108 Field Squadron RM RE	Posted - 2008.06.17 10:13:00 - [22] The whole Faction War situation seems to me to be a bit of an ISK sink hole. Cost of ship replacement, Updating clones, fittings, standings loss, ect, ect there is a big negative list for not getting into FW and very few posatives. WARNING if you should forget to update your clone and you get podded you will lose skills as a direct result. FW not for me thank you very much. To be or not to be......sorry can you repeat the question?
Lord Evangelian The White Mantle	Posted - 2008.06.17 10:31:00 - [23] Originally by: Quelque Chose Originally by: Furb Killer You can just get jumpclones using special corporations with good standing (that you join for one day), and i believe also people use carriers with clone bays to sell jumpclones. A jumpclone cost arround 10 million afaik, so nothing compared to your +4 set. That's still 10 mil every time you get podded though. Plus ship replacement. That's steeper than I'd want to go. I don't think you should get free jump clones for FW though, that's just too much hand- holding. I was able to grind out some clones in a few weeks' missioning under these conditions: I can't run lvl 4s yet, I refuse to kill empire faction navy ships in missions (which means a lot of delays owing to refused missions), I was working on 6.7 with another corp simultaneously, and I would often go 2 or 3 weeks between missioning time because I absolutely detest the standings grind. But I did it, and I'm the only one in my corp with standings so now the whole damn corp has jump clones: sweet =D. If you want it badly enough you can do it, probably maybe faster than me. you dont have to replace the JC everyti eyou get poped...just think of it as you using a blank version of your current clone expect you get all your skills and have the same bank account. When you clone jump you have to go find your ships and Items... The White Mantle
Xennith Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2008.06.17 10:51:00 - [24] Originally by: Sapphrine you're in empire / lowsec... why you worried? Chance of losing your pod is negligible. unless you lag out or are flying your (almost) free t1 frig / cruiser whilst drunk and pass out on the keyboard... Do the militia stations have medbays? if so, you can just get jumpclones with the militia once you have the requisite ranks. We come for our people
Yin Sue	Posted - 2008.06.17 11:27:00 - [25] I'm sorry this topic has degenerated into people explaining to other people what a jumpclone is and how it works. The point of this thread was to point out the fact FW was designed to encourage inexperienced players into trying PvP. Inexperienced players means they'll make lots of mistakes, including getting podded when they could have avoid it. Even extremely experienced players get podded now and then due to lag. All I'm saying is that if CCP is indeed making FW to encourage more people getting into PvP they have to provide them a convenient way of not risking "too much". Losing your ship and modules is fine, losing your full set of implants is a bit too much imo especially for newer players for whom 50 millions+ is a lot. Providing a free jumpclone to militia members could be the solution, that way they can PvP with a bit less risk. The only ontopic reply that was given so far is the fact jumpclones are permanent hence it's too big of a "holding-hands" thing to give. Then just make it so that special FW jumpclone lasts for only as long as you're in the militia. If you leave, you lose it. People who are in NPC corps, and especially those 4 new FW corps are at a disadvantage vs player corps that can easily have JC thanks to their corp's standings. And getting into a decent corp when you have less than 5 millions SP really isn't easy.
Furb Killer USC Militia	Posted - 2008.06.17 11:30:00 - [26] Since you havent trained reading to lvl 2 yet, i will tell again. Buying a jumpclone from corp/carrier pilot shouldnt cost more then 10 million isk, you only need to do that once. If you got for 50 million implants, you can also afford that.
Agor Dirdonen	Posted - 2008.06.17 16:54:00 - [27] I agree with Furb Killer. Everybody that went into lowsec at one time was required to get a jumpclone or risk his implants. It's the same now. We've all had to work for it. The next thing you 're going to propose is 'free ships, free t2 stuff and free ammo for everyone that's flying in the militia. You'll have to give it back when you leave'. No thanks. Oh, and if you do loose a full set of implants that 'costs too much', you will feel 'liberated' of the fear of loosing them after your first poddeath. Trust me, you'll enjoy pvp much more after that. You can't and shouldn't deny players that experience can you?
Jacob Mei	Posted - 2008.06.17 17:07:00 - [28] Originally by: Admiral Apex question, how does this attaining of the jump clone thing work? can you get the jump clone and move him somewhere? Basicly you need to either be in a corp with an 8.0 rep with a NPC corp or have the 8.0 yourself. Most NPC corps have several stations equiped with medical facilities for creating jump clones. You go there, click medical bay and select install jump clone. The game checks your rep and depending on the level, gives you a jump clone. Jump clone services have reps with NPC corporations that have atleast 5 stations that have medical facilities. The idea is that you do a running marathon to each of these stations in a day before they kick you out to avoid a rep loss penalty due to your lack of rep with that particular NPC corp. Once you have a jump clone you can "jump" into it, leaving your implants and so forth behind at another station. This is particularly useful in many respects. For combat, it allows you to either keep your implants safe by not having them in your clone in the first place (IE for situations where you expect to not come back from the battle) or to specialized a particular clone, IE have one with the best learning implants, another with the best implants for missioning, mining, and so forth. Note: You CAN NOT HAVE MORE THAN ONE JUMP CLONE AT THE SAME STATION!!!1!!1 To do so will result in a jump clone being destroyed along with any implants it may have on it. However, this does not mean you can not visit a station that has a jump clone in it, it just means you cant store 2 jump clones at the same time at one station. Jump clones cost 100,000 a pop if I recall and yes you can move them around, but you have to be in that particular clone to do so. you can only jump into another clone once every 24 hours so keep that in mind if you are in a corporation that depends on you being in the area. -------------------------------- To borrow a phrase: Players who post are like stars, there are bright ones and those who are dim.
Bronson Hughes The. Conspiracy	Posted - 2008.06.17 17:11:00 - [29] If CCP handed out free jump clones for people who joined a militia, you'd have everyone joining, getting their free clone(s), and then leaving. FW is about opening more doors for PvP, it's not about a free ride. -------------------- "I am hard pressed on my right; my centre is giving way; situation excellent; I am attacking." - Ferdinand Foch at the Battle of the Marne
Wendat Huron Stellar Solutions	Posted - 2008.06.17 17:16:00 - [30] You can make jumpclones from a carrier? That's the first I hear about it. These forums are FUBAR, upgrade this decade!

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