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Quelque Chose
New Eden Roller Disco Supply
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Posted - 2008.06.18 02:32:00 -
[1]
I've been playing around with warp speed recently and I was wondering if anybody had detailed knowledge of the ins and outs of it or had tested it much. What seems to happen in warp is that the ship accelerates to a point halfway between start and destination and then starts to decelerate; if that's the case then the limit of useful warp speed should be determinable as a function of longest and/ or average cross- system jumps (gate to gate).
I've just started running some time trials and the results seem disappointing so far. The first comparative test was 12 jumps from undock to system load; the ships were a blockade runner rigged and implanted to a warp speed of 14.3 AU/ sec and a shuttle using only the implant with a max speed of 6.6 AU/ sec. Align time for the blockade runner per EFT, skills included, was 3.6 sec.
Result: blockade runner made the trip in 11min 44sec, shuttle completed it in 11min 33sec.
The next test will use a frigate so I can have a known (and hopefully identical or at least close) align time to compare against. I also have a covops (13.5 au/ sec base) to throw into the mix and will eventually look at interceptors as well.
What this makes me wonder, though, is whether the blockade runner ever even achieved its maximum warp speed. The longest warp on the course was ~105 AU and I would hope it made better time through that system than the shuttle, but I didn't time individual systems so I don't know for sure.
Is there any way to improve agility while in warp (ie, make the ship accelerate and decelerate faster)? Anybody here have any in depth arcane knowledge on the subject?
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Belce
ADAMA Corps
Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2008.06.18 02:48:00 -
[2]
For a comparsion of warp speed the best test would have been that single 105 au warp you made. When you did the 12 jump test there are a bunch of other factors introduced into it. Did you auto pilot this 12 jump trip, you come out of each jump at a random spot so alignment to warp can be a factor, etc. For instance if you auto piloted the trip, the shuttle is going to travel to the jump gate faster than the blockade runner, better accerate and better top speed, plus once jumped it has a faster align I am thinkin as well. I think that really for this test, best case would be to do the 105 au warp and pre align to complete it first.
Truth is Truth |
Quelque Chose
New Eden Roller Disco Supply
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Posted - 2008.06.18 03:03:00 -
[3]
There was no autopilot involved. To clarify, what I'm trying to determine here is if there's a maximum warp speed for practical use in making long trips around the universe as opposed to some kind of purely academic salt flats test. In other words, I want to know the fastest way to get from say west Verge Vendor to the Bleak Lands rather than some number that doesn't really matter as much.
Re: random alignment. I'm pretty sure that when you load the system you're always aligned parallel to the long axis of the gate. Your position relative to the gate will make some difference to the length of warp to the next gate but at the distances involved it's unlikely to be significant IMO.
To be sure though I'll try the 105 AU prealigned sprint because that will help towards nailing down how much speed might be wasted.
And yes, the question of whether align time trumps warp velocity is a significant one. So far it seems to.
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Ecky X
Universal Securities
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Posted - 2008.06.18 03:13:00 -
[4]
I see where you're coming from. It annoys me that a Covops spends just as much time slowing down from warp as does, say, a freighter. In practice, vastly increased warp speed doesn't seem to help much, since you spend more time accelerating and decelerating in warp, than anything else.
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Quelque Chose
New Eden Roller Disco Supply
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Posted - 2008.06.18 03:22:00 -
[5]
 Originally by: Ecky X
I see where you're coming from. It annoys me that a Covops spends just as much time slowing down from warp as does, say, a freighter. In practice, vastly increased warp speed doesn't seem to help much, since you spend more time accelerating and decelerating in warp, than anything else.
I dunno. It seems like I notice a difference with the covops but then I tend to do most of my WTZ travel in haulers and it could just be the placebo effect from seeing the big number on show info.
I'll look at covops vs normal frigate next I think.
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Terianna Eri
Scrutari
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Posted - 2008.06.18 03:33:00 -
[6]
I believe that when you jump through a stargate, your ship isn't actually pointing in any direction regardless of what it looks like. When you give your ship a vector for the first time, the game treats it as though you are accelerating from rest already pointing in that direction.
This is why if you web a freighter (or any other ship) just as it begins aligning for warp out of a stargate, it insta-warps, even though the ship model isn't pointing the right direction yet (and may in fact start it's warp pointing entirely the wrong way).
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Quelque Chose
New Eden Roller Disco Supply
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Posted - 2008.06.18 03:41:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Terianna Eri
I believe that when you jump through a stargate, your ship isn't actually pointing in any direction regardless of what it looks like. When you give your ship a vector for the first time, the game treats it as though you are accelerating from rest already pointing in that direction.
This is why if you web a freighter (or any other ship) just as it begins aligning for warp out of a stargate, it insta-warps, even though the ship model isn't pointing the right direction yet (and may in fact start it's warp pointing entirely the wrong way).
OK, well, working from that as a hypothesis then if you were going to try and minimize travel time only would you fit inertial stabilizers or nanofiber internal structures to max out your gate- to- gate align time?
Something else to throw into my regimen of nbernerd experimentation. Good stuff, thanks. 
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Belce
ADAMA Corps
Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2008.06.18 03:58:00 -
[8]
I hadn't noticed that in the admitly only one time webbing a freighter warping between gates, it seemed to take ages for the thing to align, accelerate and warp.
It may take the same time to accelerate in warp for a freighter and an interceptor, but the interceptor does 9 au/sec to the freighter's 1 or 3 au/sec. Have an interceptor race a freighter on that 105 au warp, I think the interceptor will win.
Like I said earlier, if you are doing a run of 12 systems there are other things than warp jump time to take in. Quelque has provided an answer to a couple of things that first came to mind for me regarding auto pilot and alignment time. I think we would find that the shuttle aligns faster than even a blockade runner, a gues son my part since I haven't used one, but I have flown an interceptor and a shuttle is in that area. To initiate warp you have to turn to the destination and accelerate to I believe 75% max speed. This is something a shuttle is going to be better at than most ships.
Intersting talk
Truth is Truth |
Gor Kraon
Red Alliance
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Posted - 2008.06.18 04:02:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Gor Kraon on 18/06/2008 04:04:34
Stationary alignment is not a theory. Its how eve works. Eve physics is more like a marble on a plate of glass than anything else. When at rest you can go in any direction in the same amount of time, when rolling in one direction it takes more time to align somewhere else as you need to slow down your current motion to re-align somewhere else.
The fastest aligning would be with polycarb rigs and inertia stabilizers. But, that doesn't speed up the acceleration into warp or out of warp as far as i can tell. If the warp is shorter than those 2 combined you will never use your ships maximum warp speed.
I believe the time it takes to reach warp speed x is the same for every ship/fitting combo. But i have not tested this much (and the difference from the time it takes to hit 6 AU/s vs 13 AU/s isn't noticeable enough to have bothered trying to time.)
It would actually be more interesting to know the distance it takes for any ship (assuming warp acceleration is constant) to get up to say 3 AU/s and back to 0. If it takes 25 AU then you know anything shorter will never benefit from warp speed increase (save capitals).
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Hannobaal
Federal Defence Union
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Posted - 2008.06.18 04:24:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Hannobaal on 18/06/2008 04:25:13
From what I can tell, the time it takes to go from going into warp to reaching the top warp speed for the ship in question (and the time it takes to drop back to 0 and leave warp) is the same for all ships. That means that ships like cov ops and interceptors accelerate faster while warping than the slower warping ships because they have to reach a higher speed in the same amount of time.
There are rigs that will increase your top warping speed, but there are no rigs or modules that change the time it takes you to accelerate to your top warp speed.
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Quelque Chose
New Eden Roller Disco Supply
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Posted - 2008.06.18 04:32:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Belce
It may take the same time to accelerate in warp for a freighter and an interceptor, but the interceptor does 9 au/sec to the freighter's 1 or 3 au/sec. Have an interceptor race a freighter on that 105 au warp, I think the interceptor will win.
I'm pretty sure you're right on that one, I think something that does 6+ AU/ sec will beat something that does 3 AU/ sec in either a sprint or a long haul. I'll look into it just for completeness' sake.
Beyond that though I'm thinking there's a point of diminishing returns or even possibly a brick wall at which no increase in warp velocity will have any effect. Could be 6 AU/ sec, could be 7, 9, 12 or anything in between.
Originally by: Gor Kraon
Stationary alignment is not a theory. Its how eve works. Eve physics is more like a marble on a plate of glass than anything else. When at rest you can go in any direction in the same amount of time, when rolling in one direction it takes more time to align somewhere else as you need to slow down your current motion to re-align somewhere else.
Are you totally sure of that? From casual observation it looks like if you're, say, stationary in a belt (yes, I mine lol) you'll get into warp faster if you're prealigned to your target than otherwise due to the turn preventing you from accelerating. IIRC I checked that out with a hulk during the Great Goon Rampage of '08 and the difference was only a couple of seconds but for other ships it could be more.
The question above was whether it works differently when you're "spawned" at a stargate.
Quote:
It would actually be more interesting to know the distance it takes for any ship (assuming warp acceleration is constant) to get up to say 3 AU/s and back to 0. If it takes 25 AU then you know anything shorter will never benefit from warp speed increase (save capitals).
Bingo: those are the key variables we don't seem to know, and that's what a sprint test (or series of them) should tell me.
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Belce
ADAMA Corps
Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2008.06.18 04:44:00 -
[12]
Big fat ships turn and accelerate slower than small thin ships. Take your big fat ship of choice, point it 180 degrees away and stationary and then warp to an in system destination and it will wallow around, pick its nose out of the dirt, wake up, start moving and then warp. Repeat with a small light ship and it is entirely different.
I think the big advantage of the blockade runner is its innate warp stabilization and its fast warp jump speed, for a shuttle it is survivable because it can spend very little time at jump gates because of its fast align and jump. The blockade runner uses it warp stabilization bonus to survive, not its align and warp jump ability which varies across all ship types.
All things equal, I think you would find that interceptors have the best align to warp and warp speed, shuttles compete well for align to warp and have good warp speed. Compared to the shuttle, I think you will find a blockade runner takes more time to turn, more time to accelerate than a shuttle does. For this the blockade runner gets better ability to resist warp drive jam, better cargo and better damage resist and absorb.
Truth is Truth |
Belce
ADAMA Corps
Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2008.06.18 04:49:00 -
[13]
When you are stationary you will turn much better than at speed. Speed decreases your turn rate. So if at 0 speed, turn and warp is faster than the same turn and warp at full speed regardless of ship. If you pre align and then warp after reaching max speed that will be almost instant, regardless of ship. Teh time to destination dependent on your ship warp speed.
Truth is Truth |
TimMc
Genos Occidere
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Posted - 2008.06.18 04:52:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Quelque Chose
Originally by: Belce
It may take the same time to accelerate in warp for a freighter and an interceptor, but the interceptor does 9 au/sec to the freighter's 1 or 3 au/sec. Have an interceptor race a freighter on that 105 au warp, I think the interceptor will win.
I'm pretty sure you're right on that one, I think something that does 6+ AU/ sec will beat something that does 3 AU/ sec in either a sprint or a long haul. I'll look into it just for completeness' sake.
Beyond that though I'm thinking there's a point of diminishing returns or even possibly a brick wall at which no increase in warp velocity will have any effect. Could be 6 AU/ sec, could be 7, 9, 12 or anything in between.
Actually the pure interceptors such as the Ares travel at 13.5 AU/s. Fit an i-stab or two on it and see how quickly you can travel.
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Belce
ADAMA Corps
Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2008.06.18 05:08:00 -
[15]
My understanding of i-stabs is that they allow you to turn without decreasing speed as much otherwise, hence the name. Outside of better velocity performance during turns I do not know of another benefit for i-stabs. Yes this helps to improve align to warp, but not warp a to b time.
Truth is Truth |
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