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Vily Eternity INC. Project Alice.	Posted - 2008.06.18 05:54:00 - [1] i posted this is game dev forum, ill do it here as well. AF's get immunity to stasis webs, in return they cannot use MWD's simple as that -
Vily Eternity INC. Project Alice.	Posted - 2008.06.18 05:58:00 - [2] in a little more depth, it seperates the role of assualt frigates from interceptors from AF's, Inty's high speed tackle, AF's are slower, yet much mroe surivable since they cannot just be webbed and instapopped as before making them a heavy duty tackler. it creates a distinct niche among ships that would make them worth flying and make them strong enough to consider flying against some typed of other ships -
Maeltstome Suicidal Office Clerks	Posted - 2008.06.18 07:12:00 - [3] Web immunity isn't a new idea, but it seems CCP are finding a role for AF's as opposed to changing them randomly. And btw - MWD's work well on AF's... Dont limit them like that. ------- [12:07] w33Daz: a trained 1 skill fur 24 mins n it took 2 days aff drones lvl 5 [12:07] w33Daz: A WIS LIKE WTF
Blind Jhon	Posted - 2008.06.18 07:26:00 - [4] cool so when i found an AF in my hyena i die, when a mate in kitsune or sentinel meet them he can escape... "i love my new home" aka GOOD JOB
Kyusoath Orillian Viziam	Posted - 2008.06.18 07:32:00 - [5] Originally by: Blind Jhon cool so when i found an AF in my hyena i die, when a mate in kitsune or sentinel meet them he can escape... "i love my new home" aka GOOD JOB yes you should be able to escape everytime in any ship you fly.
Prometheus Exenthal Dirty Deeds Corp. Axiom Empire	Posted - 2008.06.18 08:23:00 - [6] MWD on an AF usually means pop if you're against anything larger than a cruiser. AB on an AF and you'll take less damage and therefore survive longer, even when webbed. So yes,I endorse the idea of resisting webs at the cost of using an MWD. HOWEVER I sense this would result in gangs consisting of a bunch of AFs and a couple interceptors. Super-tanked AFs doing MASSIVE dps with the assistance of a Ares or something that can disrupt out of neut range. You need to keep in mind that 2-4 Enyos (~300dps each) can take down even the heaviest tanking battleships. FRIGANK
Kay Rissa Russian Thunder Squad Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2008.06.18 08:48:00 - [7] I think it is wrong - immunity. No ship in eve should be completely immune to something. Look at the titans and motherships. They were immune to warp disruptors, but ccp realised (and not only CCP) that this is wrong. About AF, you want them to be 100% immune from webs, but this make so many ships absolutely useless (minnie recons, minnie EW frigs, BS will not be able do anything to AF)
Kano Sekor modro CORPVS DELICTI	Posted - 2008.06.18 09:20:00 - [8] Raise all resists on AF:s and give them the role as the ultimate gang-frigate. With very high resists small RR:s will actually give some EHP to them and they also need a damage bonus to compete with cruisers. I.e. they are more expensive than T1 cruisers they should be better than them. And since making them more mobile than cruisers (which they are not atm) will only make em like interceptors but worse. So all in all. More resists More damage Fulfill role of a small powerpuncher/anti-cruiser (anti-nano anyone?) frig optimized for gangs. ----------------------------------------------------------------------
Akyla Bears Inc Violent-Tendencies	Posted - 2008.06.18 09:38:00 - [9] Hmm... I think I like this idea. ________________________________ All your honey are belong to us!
Sergeant Spot Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.06.18 10:11:00 - [10] My favorate idea has 2 parts: 1. Match the mass of AFs to the T1 Frigs they are based on. 2. a bonus of 25% per point of AF skill level to AB speed bonus. (perhaps more than 25%, but not so much that they compete with MWD Intys for speed tanks) Another option would be Web "resistance", perhaps 15% per point of AF skill level.... Play nice while you butcher each other.
Gwendion Bladed Moon	Posted - 2008.06.18 11:08:00 - [11] Don't forget fixing their damages. Hawk does less damage than a Kestral for example. Though I like the AB speed increase, thats a pretty decent idea. Maybe also giving them a 5/10% resist bonus per level giving them very survivable tanks. (could replace the static bonus) Id also like to see them get more weapon hardpoints as well, maybe 6? I mean, theyre 'assault' or combat ships. They should be able to dish out some serious DPS much like their T2 Counterparts. Since T1 weapons have crap range, and crap damage, they do need a bit more. -----------------------------------
Imaos	Posted - 2008.06.18 11:49:00 - [12] Keep the mass as it is at the moment and change the following: 1) Give the Assault frigate a signature size bonus like the Interceptors have. (as missing 4th bonus) 2) Make the webber signature radius based like explosion radius on missiles. Make the web radius somewhere at 35m-40m for full effect. (40m for t1 to 35m best named/t2.) -> They are still clumsy and slow, but can mitigate the web effect to some degree as they are small hard bullets now. It also helps to assault medium ships. Imaos ------------------------------------------ Originally by: NoNah My friend, this is EVE, as it's a space oriented game, they couldn't have trolls. We have Caldari.
darkmancer	Posted - 2008.06.18 11:49:00 - [13] I seem to rerember a dev statement along the lines of they were going to give AF's a bonus to AB speed and more damage, but then rejected the idea because they want af's to be "Special". So they're looking into giving afs web resistance (not imunity). Web resistance wouldn't really massively enhance the Harpy and Hawk much, although it'd be a boon to most the others. I'd like to see them get both sets of bonus's but we'll see. --------------------------------- There's a simple solution to every problem. It is always invariably wrong
Akyla Bears Inc Violent-Tendencies	Posted - 2008.06.18 11:54:00 - [14] Originally by: Gwendion Maybe also giving them a 5/10% resist bonus per level giving them very survivable tanks. (could replace the static bonus) You mean like the 10/15% bonus they have already and the static bonus they do not have? But yes, I think the web resist/immunity would be the way to go. They're small ships with usually small range so they often need to go within web range for decent damage. ________________________________ All your honey are belong to us!
Fade Orient	Posted - 2008.06.18 12:11:00 - [15] I fail to understand the problem with them. I use them, as do my corp mates, regularly (every day) in pvp, and already think they have a great balance of pros vs. cons. Quit dreaming of uber ships and learn to play the game. AF's are -VERY- effective, and I don't want mine nerfed because of you idiots. "Assault" = to be the aggressor. AF's - the Hawk, the Vengeance, the ENyo, etc, have great tanks, so they regularly tackle what needs tackled. The pwn any frigate and most of the cruisers out there, and easily hold BS's that don't have webs. If a BS fit a web - GOOD for him (or her)! With the right fittings a battleship SHOULD take down an AF, and a web is a part of that 'right' fit. Most fights I win, some I lose, but there's no doubt that AF's have made me one of the higher-ranked players on the main killboards. (posted with an alt)
Kano Sekor modro CORPVS DELICTI	Posted - 2008.06.18 12:14:00 - [16] Originally by: Fade Orient I fail to understand the problem with them. I use them, as do my corp mates, regularly (every day) in pvp, and already think they have a great balance of pros vs. cons. Quit dreaming of uber ships and learn to play the game. AF's are -VERY- effective, and I don't want mine nerfed because of you idiots. "Assault" = to be the aggressor. AF's - the Hawk, the Vengeance, the ENyo, etc, have great tanks, so they regularly tackle what needs tackled. The pwn any frigate and most of the cruisers out there, and easily hold BS's that don't have webs. If a BS fit a web - GOOD for him (or her)! With the right fittings a battleship SHOULD take down an AF, and a web is a part of that 'right' fit. Most fights I win, some I lose, but there's no doubt that AF's have made me one of the higher-ranked players on the main killboards. (posted with an alt) I fail to see even if you and your corp mates use em (heck even i use one) the difference it whould be (besides skills in use) for you and your corp mates to just use cruisers instead? btw. no critique on my suggestion... makes me sad panda... ----------------------------------------------------------------------
Raspp Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2008.06.18 12:29:00 - [17] Originally by: Sergeant Spot My favorate idea has 2 parts: 1. Match the mass of AFs to the T1 Frigs they are based on. i.e. remove the original Nerf they received? this would be enough,
Grimpak The Republican 1st Strike Force	Posted - 2008.06.18 13:01:00 - [18] Edited by: Grimpak on 18/06/2008 13:02:46 Originally by: Vily i posted this is game dev forum, ill do it here as well. AF's get immunity to stasis webs, in return they cannot use MWD's simple as that well you know that the AF's are total bricks, when comparing them to inties or frigs right? considering that a mwd has much less efficiency in a AF than in an inty, and that their agility is poor, it's ok to say that if they give web immunity to the AF class, the agility and mass of the ships should remain the same, for the sake of balance. as as small FYI, a jag with 3 T2 od's, T2 mwd, and 2 polys reaches the 4.4km/sec. something that is hardly "fast" considering nowadays standards. also, to hit the 6km/sec mark, you need faction OD's, gitsii mwd, and T2 polys. --- Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals. ain't that right.
Vily Eternity INC. Project Alice.	Posted - 2008.06.18 13:04:00 - [19] i realize they would have speed issues, but it creates a new role for them. get AF's to their location and they can all fo a sudden be beastly -
Grimpak The Republican 1st Strike Force	Posted - 2008.06.18 13:06:00 - [20] Originally by: Vily i realize they would have speed issues, but it creates a new role for them. get AF's to their location and they can all fo a sudden be beastly I wouldn't take away their ability to use mwd, if they maintain the mass and agility. --- Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals. ain't that right.
Deadeye Devie	Posted - 2008.06.18 13:45:00 - [21] its simple, lower the mass/agility so they are more manuverable and more comparitive to a frigate than a cruiser, and give them the AB bonus...this means they wont suffer from an enlarged sig radius, like you get whilst your MWDing into a fight, and so tank better. the accelleration and turning whilst using an AB will be a little more sluggish than a MWD, so as such, it wont be a biiiig boost, and would keep it below the while inty role, allowing these ships to arm for damage and tank, not tackle, and so be the big guns for a frigate fleet. they dont need 6 high slots, and dont realy need a web resistance (and DEFFINATELY not web immune...waaay too imbalanced. but all in all, they need mass and agility sorted to make them a viable ship compared to T1 cruisers. Whoever appeals to the law against his fellow man is either a fool or a coward. Whoever cannot take care of themself without that law is both.
Imaos	Posted - 2008.06.18 14:07:00 - [22] Changing the web to be affected by sig and giving the Assault ships a bonus to sig would help more ships than just the ASs and also help with AB module popularity. As icing on the cake maybe allow them to be jumped in by black ops. Imaos ------------------------------------------ Originally by: NoNah My friend, this is EVE, as it's a space oriented game, they couldn't have trolls. We have Caldari.
Varitus Tribal Liberation Force	Posted - 2008.06.18 14:19:00 - [23] Originally by: Deadeye Devie its simple, lower the mass/agility so they are more manuverable and more comparitive to a frigate than a cruiser, and give them the AB bonus...this means they wont suffer from an enlarged sig radius, like you get whilst your MWDing into a fight, and so tank better. Im not completely sure whats wrong with the AF's beyond that that don't have a role. Why not just give them a -10% per level to the added sig radius from MWD's. Makes them harder to track, it takes longer to lock them and they take less damage when hit by large weapons. A wolfs has a normal sig of 33 and 198 under mwd. -50% would bring it under 100 while mwd is active.
Maeltstome Suicidal Office Clerks	Posted - 2008.06.18 14:35:00 - [24] sig radius wont really help imo. Just had an awesome thought, give them web immunity - then ill take a 200man fleet of them into systems to pop cyno jammers, PEW PEW. No more fleet fitted BS for me. ------- [12:07] w33Daz: a trained 1 skill fur 24 mins n it took 2 days aff drones lvl 5 [12:07] w33Daz: A WIS LIKE WTF
Imaos	Posted - 2008.06.18 14:43:00 - [25] Originally by: Maeltstome sig radius wont really help imo. Just had an awesome thought, give them web immunity - then ill take a 200man fleet of them into systems to pop cyno jammers, PEW PEW. No more fleet fitted BS for me. And another post why web immunity isn't a good idea. As long as web ignore sig radius modifing sig on AFs has no point. Make the stasis webifier signature dependend and it'll become worthwhile and not as extreme as the immunity. Imaos ------------------------------------------ Originally by: NoNah My friend, this is EVE, as it's a space oriented game, they couldn't have trolls. We have Caldari.
Grimpak The Republican 1st Strike Force	Posted - 2008.06.18 17:20:00 - [26] Originally by: Imaos Originally by: Maeltstome sig radius wont really help imo. Just had an awesome thought, give them web immunity - then ill take a 200man fleet of them into systems to pop cyno jammers, PEW PEW. No more fleet fitted BS for me. And another post why web immunity isn't a good idea. As long as web ignore sig radius modifing sig on AFs has no point. Make the stasis webifier signature dependend and it'll become worthwhile and not as extreme as the immunity. Imaos even with web immunity, considering today's AF top speeds, mass and agility, a myrmidon with the right drones can make short work out of a couple of 'em or even more. web immunity seems the right answer, IF it's tested enough and IF the mass and agility of AF's is maintained as it is. --- Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals. ain't that right.
slothe Murky Inc.	Posted - 2008.06.18 17:28:00 - [27] Originally by: Kyusoath Orillian Originally by: Blind Jhon cool so when i found an AF in my hyena i die, when a mate in kitsune or sentinel meet them he can escape... "i love my new home" aka GOOD JOB yes you should be able to escape everytime in any ship you fly. can escape all the time in nano ships atm, whats your point?
Power's Urge Pixels Docks Fang Alliance	Posted - 2008.06.18 17:30:00 - [28] Originally by: darkmancer Web resistance wouldn't really massively enhance the Harpy and Hawk much This. A Harpy in its intended role as a sniper has no advantage from web resistance. Even an artillery Wolf with the proper bonus (range instead of falloff) would usually be fighting outside web range.
Deadeye Devie	Posted - 2008.06.18 18:52:00 - [29] Originally by: Varitus Originally by: Deadeye Devie its simple, lower the mass/agility so they are more manuverable and more comparitive to a frigate than a cruiser, and give them the AB bonus...this means they wont suffer from an enlarged sig radius, like you get whilst your MWDing into a fight, and so tank better. Im not completely sure whats wrong with the AF's beyond that that don't have a role. Why not just give them a -10% per level to the added sig radius from MWD's. Makes them harder to track, it takes longer to lock them and they take less damage when hit by large weapons. A wolfs has a normal sig of 33 and 198 under mwd. -50% would bring it under 100 while mwd is active. at the mo, AFs have the mass and agility near as damnit to a cruiser size vessle...this means you have a frigate with frigate hp and slow ass speed and turning, with only a bit more resist than a T1 frig, which costs 2x more or higher, than a T1 cruiser. add the fact that T1 cruisers have more slots in mid, low and high, and can fully be insured, and have more HP, pg, cpu and rig slots.......now, ask yourself, what is the point of an AF when a T1 cruiser can do all it does and more???!!!?!? mass/agility is the number 1 problem holding back this class of ship, and needs to be looked at befor any pointless role can be applied to it....simple as that. Whoever appeals to the law against his fellow man is either a fool or a coward. Whoever cannot take care of themself without that law is both.
Hannobaal Federal Defence Union	Posted - 2008.06.18 19:02:00 - [30] Web resistance is mostly useless to me with the way I fly my assault ships. Not being able to use mwd is a major disadvantage. If this happened, I would stop flying them. The only thing that needs to be done if you want themj improved is make them not be by far the heaviest ships in all of Eve compared to their hull size. Check out the mass on those things. It's insane.

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