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Uda Nahn
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2008.06.24 19:20:00 -
[91]
Originally by: Esmenet However the majority of pvp is in gangs/fleets. And my point (that you apparently didnt get)was that caldari pilots in a fleet try to fit their ships like they were playing solo. For instance it doesnt matter if you cant put a scram on your raven if you got another ship that will tackle. It doesnt matter if your drake has a uberpassive tank and will be killed last if you dont do any damage while you are still alive. etc etc etc.
All ok with that, but you honestly don`t see the flaws in your arguement? If that what you state is true, what do you think is the reason for this? You think people choosing to fight for Caldari are more stupid than those that fight for Gallente? Or do you think by clicking on the Calari button way back someone ticked out his brain along? What you are saying is that people that have chosen Caldari cannot fit their ships - this is plain racism (o.k. not a problem here as it is a virtuel race) never the less you suggest to me that the inability to fit their ships comes from the race the are or flying for - and not from the mods/ships and playstyle of pvp?? You also tell me that Caldari pilots unlike those flying for Gallente are unable to adopt to the pvp situation done in FW, again your only reason is they are Caldari... Did it ever cross your mind that maybe, just maybe, people have more difficulty to find decent PvP setups for Caldari ships than for other races ships, and this independently of their race but a rather as a reflection of the way pvp is done and what mods and ships are there to use???
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Esmenet
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Posted - 2008.06.24 19:40:00 -
[92]
Edited by: Esmenet on 24/06/2008 19:41:24 Edited by: Esmenet on 24/06/2008 19:40:57
Originally by: Uda Nahn
All ok with that, but you honestly don`t see the flaws in your arguement? If that what you state is true, what do you think is the reason for this? You think people choosing to fight for Caldari are more stupid than those that fight for Gallente? Or do you think by clicking on the Calari button way back someone ticked out his brain along? What you are saying is that people that have chosen Caldari cannot fit their ships - this is plain racism (o.k. not a problem here as it is a virtuel race) never the less you suggest to me that the inability to fit their ships comes from the race the are or flying for - and not from the mods/ships and playstyle of pvp?? You also tell me that Caldari pilots unlike those flying for Gallente are unable to adopt to the pvp situation done in FW, again your only reason is they are Caldari... Did it ever cross your mind that maybe, just maybe, people have more difficulty to find decent PvP setups for Caldari ships than for other races ships, and this independently of their race but a rather as a reflection of the way pvp is done and what mods and ships are there to use???
Most likely because caldari has been proclaimed as the best for PVE, and have a large number of people that treat PVP like PVE because thats what they are used to doing. The caldari also comes in the ships they are using for PVE like a drake and seem unable to understand how to refit it for pvp. A militia fleet is absolutely no reflection on the average power of the relevant races ships.
If you gave a group of 10 experienced pvp people a task of setting up a 10 man fleet of only caldari ships to face a similar gang of 10 gallente ships (all subcapital, normal t2 fit ships) and let them fight it out in space i would bet on the caldari team.
However that is all irrelevant as there is no restrictions on what ships you can fly and a normal fleet will have ships from multiple races to minimize their weaknesses.
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Uda Nahn
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2008.06.24 19:56:00 -
[93]
Originally by: Esmenet
Most likely because caldari has been proclaimed as the best for PVE, and have a large number of people that treat PVP like PVE because thats what they are used to doing. The caldari also comes in the ships they are using for PVE like a drake and seem unable to understand how to refit it for pvp. A militia fleet is absolutely no reflection on the average power of the relevant races ships....
You really think that the majority of people at the moment of choosing their race had the question of PvE vs PvP being the base for their decision? I doubt this!!
ôThe caldari à and seem unable to understand how to refit it for pvpö Your reason for they are unable to refit for pvp is that he is Cladari?
Yes a militia fleet shows a lot about the different races. If you check the kbs you will find that a significant number of the tacklers in a Caldari fleet are not Caldari ships and a lot are ceptors. While in Gallente fleets many of the tacklers are simple Thoraxes fitted with scramblers, as they would for solo PvP. This is not an issue in 0.0, but for something called factional warfare it simply points to an imbalance between the races to fight in current PvP situations.
And no I would not bet on the Caldari ships to get more kills, unless in an artificial environment like the CCP PvP tournaments, but defo not a gate in Tama! As I bet that Gallente half of the time could simply warp out!
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Esmenet
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Posted - 2008.06.24 20:42:00 -
[94]
Edited by: Esmenet on 24/06/2008 20:44:38
Originally by: Uda Nahn
You really think that the majority of people at the moment of choosing their race had the question of PvE vs PvP being the base for their decision? I doubt this!!
Mmos are filled to the brim with min-maxers and caldari space is filled to the brim with mission runners in drakes and ravens.
Quote:
The caldari … and seem unable to understand how to refit it for pvp” Your reason for they are unable to refit for pvp is that he is Cladari?
Perhaps it seems strange but the killboards is filled with drakes with PVE fits or worse. But if you look at these forums for instance whenever a drakesetup is discussed its a passive tanked pve setup. Perhaps caldari is just too used to beeing the PVE race.
Oh and militia fleets dont show any of its race power as its just a random disorganised blob. Why dont it use one of the races biggest strenghts ECM more for instance?
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Uda Nahn
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2008.06.24 21:04:00 -
[95]
Originally by: Esmenet
Perhaps it seems strange but the killboards is filled with drakes with PVE fits or worse. But if you look at these forums for instance whenever a drakesetup is discussed its a passive tanked pve setup. Perhaps caldari is just too used to beeing the PVE race.
The reason might be that a Caracal is not as streight foreward to fit for PvP as a Thorax? And isn't being the PvE race a clear sign of an imbalance when it comes to FW?
Originally by: Esmenet Oh and militia fleets dont show any of its race power as its just a random disorganised blob.
Well if Gallente are superior when fighting as a random disorganised blob then it means Caldari would have to organize to achieve the same which contradict an earlier statement of you!
Originally by: Esmenet Why dont it use one of the races biggest strenghts ECM more for instance?
It needs more coordination for this which (see above) just once more proofs the imbalance... 'Cause frankly 1 BB is worth nothing as it would be prime right away. You need a reasonable number (10 or so)of BB/falcons/rooks or scorps and then we have it again, Caldari would need ortganise and tell pilots what they have to fly which is not the case for Gallente fleets.
All it would need to balance the hole thing out a bit is some tweaks on the mssl explotion velocity and maybe mssl speed and defo a high or low slot tackling mod for ships other than hictors.
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Bobbie Chilli
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Posted - 2008.06.24 23:58:00 -
[96]
Edited by: Bobbie Chilli on 24/06/2008 23:58:07
Originally by: Straight Chillen
Ishtar and stuff.
Try fitting small pulse on your ishtar. Tracking is awesome and you lose next to nothing in dps on the bigger targets you will comfortably take out ceptors. As for the rest well, the range/missile race currently has the least damaging sniper bs (by a mile) and the best missile ship is amarr.
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Cpt Branko
Surge. NIght's Dawn
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Posted - 2008.06.25 01:29:00 -
[97]
Seriously, aside from having the best support T1 frig, the best support T1 cruiser, one of the best (if not the absolute best) PvP BC (together with another decent one), one (in fact, three) of the best (if not the best) gang BS, best gang support recon, best solo-capable interceptor, what else do you people want?
And, yes, the Drake is, for a up-close slugfest, the best PvP BC which can fit full tackle plus MWD (you may be doing it wrong, but it's your problem), the Griffin/Blackbird are awesome cheap support ships, all three of your BS are very good (although gang-oriented, particularly the Scorpion), I won't even mention the Falcon/Rook, and the Crow is a superb interceptor.....
Btw: the Drake with a single LSE II + 2x invuln II + DC II does better then a plated Brutix/Hurricane/Harbringer effective HP wise, and I'd sooner fly a Ferox then a Brutix for most purposes as well.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Ingea Klienau
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Posted - 2008.06.25 02:20:00 -
[98]
Very simpel sulotion to not being happy flying one race of ships!!!!!!!!! Train to fly other races ships so you are not limited.
DAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
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Uda Nahn
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2008.06.25 07:42:00 -
[99]
Originally by: Cpt Branko ... what else do you people want?
As stated multiple times by multiple people: higher explosion velocity for missiles and a high or low slot tackling module.
By the way both things are not Caldari specific
Originally by: Ingea Klienau Very simpel sulotion to not being happy flying one race of ships!!!!!!!!! Train to fly other races ships so you are not limited.
Well that is what people currently do . But Eve has a backstory and FW contains the word factional and with respect to both these facts, request for the things stated above are very legitimate. One state would hardly accept the fact that their pilots have to fly their enemyÆs ships instead of their own and would rather start working to find ways to make their ships or setups more competitive. And in some way this is what happens if people post in this section of the forum û help the game to evolveà
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kill0rbunny
Jagdkommando RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2008.06.25 08:26:00 -
[100]
Edited by: kill0rbunny on 25/06/2008 08:29:34
CCP can do nothing to prevent you caldari militia noobs from getting pwnd.
Caldari ship are perfectly fine for totally slaughtering nanos apart, if you know what you are doing.
Missiles are the only sort of weapon that doesn't care whether it's target had a high transversal when they are fired. You have to outrun them the entire flight time and if a ship manages to get a web on you before flight time is over, you're toast. The only problem you have is gazillions of noobs that think flying full passive tanked drakes and badly fitted caracals is somehow contributing to the gangs performance at all.
Go places. Kill people. |
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Italian Wedding
Soup Of The Day
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Posted - 2008.06.25 08:29:00 -
[101]
Most excuses I see from people saying Caldari are fine are saying that caldari are meant for fleets. Basically you're saying for every one ship fielded, no matter what class/size Caldari have to field two. One to tackle, and one to do damage. I will tell you right now, **** you and shut the **** up :) That is not balance, and if you think it is, you should go shoot yourself in the face.
Caldari are an extremely underpowered PvP race in the current Eve universe. Missiles need love, ESPECIALLY precision missiles. Precision lights should be able to hit any target at full damage cept the pimpest of the pimped ceptors.
Stating that Caldari are ment for fleets and are supposed to field 2 ships per 1 hostile ship (regardless of ships size, one to tackle, one to do damage) is so ******* stupid and pathetic it's beyond belief.
Caldari pilots shouldn't be forced to cross train just to be effective.
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kill0rbunny
Jagdkommando RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2008.06.25 08:32:00 -
[102]
Edited by: kill0rbunny on 25/06/2008 08:32:35 The most effective ship there is in the whole game is the falcon, which is GUESS WHAT, caldari. In gangs up to five, a single falcon can totally disable the other gang. See, no fleet, a GANG.
It's not the fault of caldari ships that you all fly them as pathetic noobs. Get a damn clue.
Go places. Kill people. |
Italian Wedding
Soup Of The Day
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Posted - 2008.06.25 08:44:00 -
[103]
Originally by: kill0rbunny Edited by: kill0rbunny on 25/06/2008 08:32:35 The most effective ship there is in the whole game is the falcon, which is GUESS WHAT, caldari. In gangs up to five, a single falcon can totally disable the other gang. See, no fleet, a GANG.
It's not the fault of caldari ships that you all fly them as pathetic noobs. Get a damn clue.
Yes, thank god Caldari have a single ship worth flying that takes months of training to fly effectively. One whole ship, my god nerf Caldari, obviously a developer oversight.
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Gypsio III
Bambooule
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Posted - 2008.06.25 09:01:00 -
[104]
Italian Wedding, please get a clue. It doesn't matter what race's ships you'd fly, you'd still be incompetent.
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kill0rbunny
Jagdkommando RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2008.06.25 09:45:00 -
[105]
Edited by: kill0rbunny on 25/06/2008 09:55:13 Edited by: kill0rbunny on 25/06/2008 09:50:31
Originally by: Italian Wedding Yes, thank god Caldari have a single ship worth flying that takes months of training to fly effectively. One whole ship, my god nerf Caldari, obviously a developer oversight.
Raven - watch Burn Eden Videos, nuff said, prolly the most effective small gang damage dealer. Blackbird - Most effective Tech I Cruiser ingame Crow - Good Ceptor Rokh - Easily DD Proof Fleet Sniper Eagle - Total Support Rapeage Cerb - Most effective Range of all med weapons Onyx - Badass Tanking Hic Phoenix - One of the best Dreads for Pos Bashing
No your passive ubertanked Drake is not one of those. That was meant by getting a clue.
No one cries for a nerf. I'm a caldari user myself and I'm tired of noobs that don't have a sigle clue on how to use the ships and then whine on the forums for changes. That whining was what brought us those crappy scripts.
Go places. Kill people. |
Uda Nahn
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2008.06.25 10:48:00 -
[106]
Originally by: kill0rbunny Raven - watch Burn Eden Videos, nuff said, prolly the most effective small gang damage dealer. Blackbird - Most effective Tech I Cruiser ingame Crow - Good Ceptor Rokh - Easily DD Proof Fleet Sniper Eagle - Total Support Rapeage Cerb - Most effective Range of all med weapons Onyx - Badass Tanking Hic Phoenix - One of the best Dreads for Pos Bashing
Your list is biased as it does not includes where other races have all their advantages and in the case of the BB simply wrong, as it depends what you want to do with your T1 cruiser. And in the case of PvP the bb is by far not the most effective T1 cruiser as it only can fulfill a very specific role!!!
Originally by: kill0rbunny Missiles are the only sort of weapon that doesn't care whether it's target had a high transversal when they are fired.
But it is the only primary weapon that does care what velocity the target has!
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Uda Nahn
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2008.06.25 10:49:00 -
[107]
Originally by: Gypsio III Italian Wedding, please get a clue. It doesn't matter what race's ships you'd fly, you'd still be incompetent.
To answer for him: likewise
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FlameGlow
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2008.06.25 10:56:00 -
[108]
Originally by: kill0rbunny
Raven - watch Burn Eden Videos, nuff said, prolly the most effective small gang damage dealer. Blackbird - Most effective Tech I Cruiser ingame Crow - Good Ceptor Rokh - Easily DD Proof Fleet Sniper Eagle - Total Support Rapeage Cerb - Most effective Range of all med weapons Onyx - Badass Tanking Hic Phoenix - One of the best Dreads for Pos Bashing
No your passive ubertanked Drake is not one of those. That was meant by getting a clue.
No one cries for a nerf. I'm a caldari user myself and I'm tired of noobs that don't have a sigle clue on how to use the ships and then whine on the forums for changes. That whining was what brought us those hilarious scripts.
The biggest problem of caldari ships - the missiles. They don't harm fast ships and in this second nanoage ships are still too fast. Phoenix may be the pos basher, but it is the worst dread to shoot other caps, all of his citadel torps can be easily blasted away by smarties. Second problem is that nearly all pvp modules(mwd, cap booster, tackle, ewar) are midslot and shieldtankers have to sacrifice tank to use them, if some of them were moved to low and some others to high it would even out the odds. Something like MWD, AB, injector->low, ecm,damps,distuptors,painters->high, web/scram stay in mid.
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kill0rbunny
Jagdkommando RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2008.06.25 11:17:00 -
[109]
Edited by: kill0rbunny on 25/06/2008 11:24:53 Edited by: kill0rbunny on 25/06/2008 11:23:45
Originally by: FlameGlow The biggest problem of caldari ships - the missiles. They don't harm fast ships and in this second nanoage ships are still too fast. Phoenix may be the pos basher, but it is the worst dread to shoot other caps, all of his citadel torps can be easily blasted away by smarties.
I stopped reading after that. Omg, go back to the newbie guide.
Originally by: Uda Nahn Your list is biased as it does not includes where other races have all their advantages and in the case of the BB simply wrong, as it depends what you want to do with your T1 cruiser. And in the case of PvP the bb is by far not the most effective T1 cruiser as it only can fulfill a very specific role!!!
Every pvp ship fulfills a specific role in pvp. That's why you bring them to a gang.
Originally by: Uda Nahn
But it is the only primary weapon that does care what velocity the target has!
That's a serious attempt of trolling. Nobody can be that stupid for real.
Read this post on how to pvp properly, please, kthx: http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=806651
Go places. Kill people. |
FlameGlow
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2008.06.25 11:27:00 -
[110]
Originally by: kill0rbunny
I stopped reading after that. Omg, go back to the newbie guide.
Been to newbie guide http://www.eve-online.com/guide/en/g61_3.asp , it assumes no ship moves faster then 3 km/s
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kill0rbunny
Jagdkommando RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2008.06.25 11:35:00 -
[111]
Edited by: kill0rbunny on 25/06/2008 11:35:20 If all state protectorate pilots are that bright, the reason why you suck at pvp gets painfully obvious.
Go places. Kill people. |
Uda Nahn
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2008.06.25 11:44:00 -
[112]
Originally by: kill0rbunny Read this post on how to pvp properly, please, kthx: http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=806651
That post just confirms my view on the pvp inbalance within Eve. Any one can pvp with Gallente ships in an out of the box setup but you have to organise your fleet to perfection and be really really smart to fit your ship as Caldari - q.e.d. their is an issue obviously and one has to be really blind not to see it.
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kill0rbunny
Jagdkommando RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2008.06.25 12:06:00 -
[113]
Edited by: kill0rbunny on 25/06/2008 12:10:46 Edited by: kill0rbunny on 25/06/2008 12:08:29
Originally by: Uda Nahn That post just confirms my view on the pvp inbalance within Eve. Any one can pvp with Gallente ships in an out of the box setup but you have to organise your fleet to perfection and be really really smart to fit your ship as Caldari - q.e.d. their is an issue obviously and one has to be really blind not to see it.
This is not wow. Being totally dumb and still pwning by number was never intended in this game. Knowing how to fit a ship has nothing to do with intelligence, it's called common sense and learn how to read the fits in the fitting forum.
As I said in the other thread you state protectorate guys are easily the most disorganized bunch of noobs on the whole server. Gallente, Minmatar and even Amarr are organized much better, the main reason is they are lead by corps who know how to pvp.
Take the hint and use the info, and stop whining before you have gotten a clue on how to use a ship to be effective in PvP.
Go places. Kill people. |
Zarch AlDain
Hematite Rose Bionic Dawn
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Posted - 2008.06.25 12:21:00 -
[114]
Originally by: kill0rbunny Raven - watch Burn Eden Videos, nuff said, prolly the most effective small gang damage dealer. Blackbird - Most effective Tech I Cruiser ingame Crow - Good Ceptor Rokh - Easily DD Proof Fleet Sniper Eagle - Total Support Rapeage Cerb - Most effective Range of all med weapons Onyx - Badass Tanking Hic Phoenix - One of the best Dreads for Pos Bashing
And how many of those tackle well without large sacrifices?
Zarch AlDain ---- My corp is recruiting. See the recruitment thread here.
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Uda Nahn
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2008.06.25 12:25:00 -
[115]
Originally by: kill0rbunny This is not wow.
Sorry how should I know? I never played wow - you apperently can make the comparison
And to the rest of your intellectual output Mr. Naseweis , just calling everyone else, that has a different opinion , a noob or not having a clue just reflects your own incapability to reasonably argue over something. We do not ask for bigger and better ships, we do not ask for a Gallente nerf û all we ask for is some tweaks on some aspects of missile (which not only Caldari uses) and the introduction of some additional tackling gear for all - not just Caldari ships, located outside of med slots. So why are you opposing more options, which apparently some people would like to see? And is this a reason to call other people noobs??
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Ciaphas Khaine
Wreckless Abandon Un-Natural Selection
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Posted - 2008.06.25 15:19:00 -
[116]
Originally by: Uda Nahn
Originally by: kill0rbunny This is not wow.
Sorry how should I know? I never played wow - you apperently can make the comparison
And to the rest of your intellectual output Mr. Naseweis , just calling everyone else, that has a different opinion , a noob or not having a clue just reflects your own incapability to reasonably argue over something. We do not ask for bigger and better ships, we do not ask for a Gallente nerf û all we ask for is some tweaks on some aspects of missile (which not only Caldari uses) and the introduction of some additional tackling gear for all - not just Caldari ships, located outside of med slots. So why are you opposing more options, which apparently some people would like to see? And is this a reason to call other people noobs??
because your an idiot and things were fine before all you FW noobs started getting your asses kicked and now your filling our forums with your dribble. Shut up and play the game instead of being a forum warrior. also, I would suggest developing some tactics (i know its hard) for your gang before you undock the next time. I know the rest of us have, and thats why were spanking you up and down black rise.
BOOST EVERYTHING THAT I FLY! NERF EVERYTHING I DONT! |
James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2008.06.25 16:44:00 -
[117]
Originally by: Zarch AlDain
Originally by: kill0rbunny Raven - watch Burn Eden Videos, nuff said, prolly the most effective small gang damage dealer. Blackbird - Most effective Tech I Cruiser ingame Crow - Good Ceptor Rokh - Easily DD Proof Fleet Sniper Eagle - Total Support Rapeage Cerb - Most effective Range of all med weapons Onyx - Badass Tanking Hic Phoenix - One of the best Dreads for Pos Bashing
And how many of those tackle well without large sacrifices?
You're looking at it the wrong way around, if you're even asking that question. You're quite correct to say they don't tackle very well. But you know what? In most fights, you don't actually need all that many points. I mean, if the target you're currently shooting at has enough to stop him warping, anything else is overkill. WASTED EFFORT.
Anything bigger than a cruiser is wasting slots by tackling anyway - they just don't lock fast enough.
Caldari's biggest weakness is that it's specialised. Caldari's biggest strength is that it's specialised. Play to your strengths - specialise your ships, generalise your gang. -- Crane needs more grid 249km locking? |
Uda Nahn
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2008.06.25 18:45:00 -
[118]
Originally by: Ciaphas Khaine because your an idiot
Hmmm... you apparently have an exceptionally rich vocabularyà
Originally by: Ciaphas Khaine à and things were fine before all you FW noobs started getting your asses kicked and now your filling our forums with your dribble. Shut up and play the game instead of being a forum warrior. also, I would suggest developing some tactics (i know its hard) for your gang before you undock the next time. I know the rest of us have, and thats why were spanking you up and down black rise.
ROFL - And that from a guy whose corp looses ships in 0.0 against mining barges!!! Sorry mate but you utterly fail and I strongly recommend you switch on the thing halfway in between your ears and start discussing the topic instead of commenting my and others PvP capabilities which you certainly have no idea of.
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Ferocious FeAr
THE FINAL STAND
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Posted - 2008.06.25 20:26:00 -
[119]
You know what is really funny? When people say its a "gang ship race" give me a ******* break. I don't want to hear that bull****. Every race should have the ability to play solo. Do you think everyone that joins this game is in it for gangs?
Don't hate me, learn to love me |
zealoty
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Posted - 2008.06.25 20:55:00 -
[120]
Edited by: zealoty on 25/06/2008 20:55:42
Quote: because your an idiot
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