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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 2 post(s)
Carnun Blodeuwedd	Posted - 2008.07.22 12:50:00 - [121] Well forgive my bluntness but as I see it EVE loses a lot of potential customers because the new player experience: a) sucks b) is hard and takes a long time to get into c) requires a completely difference attitude to most MMOs and because the actual verbs that you do can be fairly boring.
Gnulpie Minmatar Miner Tech	Posted - 2008.07.22 12:53:00 - [122] Why is it that Eve doesn't have more players? A quite high entry barrier. You just cannot get your account and start doing stuff. There is the character creation which can easily take 1+ hour. And then? You usually cannot just start doing things, too difficult. Difficult times as noob. With so many veterans around, no one can do any pvp with unnamed t1 and no skills. So that leaves pve, but there is not enough pve for small chars around! Not enough relaxing stuff, eyecandy. Some people just want to fly around and enjoy the beautiful imagination Eve can give. But after a while everything looks the same and is repeated. Hopefully the next expansion will introduce more different things! The griefer, the scammer and all the ugly. Eve is a harsh world. Many people just want to relax and have a carefree time online. For those people Eve is not the right game. (which is good I might add ) Old players getting bored with pve stuff or upset with pvp/0.0 things - though I think they are almost always comming back. I think that are the main reasons why Eve has not more players.
Plumpy McPudding	Posted - 2008.07.22 12:57:00 - [123] Originally by: Carnun Blodeuwedd Well forgive my bluntness but as I see it EVE loses a lot of potential customers because the new player experience: a) sucks b) is hard and takes a long time to get into c) requires a completely difference attitude to most MMOs and because the actual verbs that you do can be fairly boring. Because EVE fills a niche market and does not cater to the mass market audience giving it one of its greatest strengths, but also its greatest weakness. __________________________ Fear me for I have an insatiable appetite! Proprietor and inventor of Chocolate Chip Chocolate Donut flavored Ice Cream.
CommmanderInChief	Posted - 2008.07.22 13:05:00 - [124] the learning curve and the loss vs reward basically puts people off...simple..eves numbers hasnt raised for some time, the trinity patch initally got it up to 40000+ peak time thats now dropped back to around 34000 which was around the same before trinity - so what does that tell you and they did advertise this version
Tarminic 24th Imperial Crusade	Posted - 2008.07.22 13:05:00 - [125] Originally by: Carnun Blodeuwedd Well forgive my bluntness but as I see it EVE loses a lot of potential customers because the new player experience: a) sucks b) is hard and takes a long time to get into c) requires a completely difference attitude to most MMOs and because the actual verbs that you do can be fairly boring. How recently have you tried it? I made a new character for kicks a month ago and I was really amazed at how in-depth the tutorials and everything are now. They even have a mission that acts as a tutorial for invention. ---------------- Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.83 (Updated 7/3)
Slanty McGarglefist	Posted - 2008.07.22 13:06:00 - [126] Originally by: CommmanderInChief the learning curve and the loss vs reward basically puts people off...simple..eves numbers hasnt raised for some time, the trinity patch initally got it up to 40000+ peak time thats now dropped back to around 34000 which was around the same before trinity - so what does that tell you and they did advertise this version What are you talking about? __________________________________________________ Originally by: CCP Wrangler No Doh!
Miyamoto Uroki Caldari State Protectorate	Posted - 2008.07.22 13:08:00 - [127] The entry barrier for Eve is considerably lower that it was when I started in 2003. A lot lower, infact. Nowadays you have guidance in the process of character creation, aswell as quite detailed ingame tutorials from AURA. And also you actually get useful things and quite good reward for your tutorial missions. The early days were trial and error at best. And it's a myth that you cannot do pvp in your noob time. Train some basic skills for mwd and tackle gear and there you go. Especially with todays possibility to start with Gunnery V (and therefor small tech2 turrets within a week or so) or high frigate lvl. After a week in the game one can become a quite good tackler already. The eyecandy stuff is sadly true. It keeps you occupied for lets say 2 months, but you quickly realize that every star system is the same really. I am hoping for more space backgrounds, some nice stuff like system wide astro fields and basically Cosmos 2.0 Old players eventually burn out a bit, true. Most come back later though. Originally by: Puupuu dude... your face
Karii Ildarian Caldari Eve University Ivy League	Posted - 2008.07.22 13:08:00 - [128] Done correctly, I think that Ambulation could easly double the player base.
Kash Ka Amarr Point of No Return Vanguard.	Posted - 2008.07.22 13:20:00 - [129] I started playing eve a bit over a year ago. Back then i would see tops 20,000 people on. Now i often see 30,000 - 40,000. Eve has doubled in activity in the last year. Which is something special considering its over 5 years old now. Something no other mmo, as i can recall, has achieved. --------------==============================-------------- Forgiveness is between you and god, im just here to arrange the meeting.
Letouk Mernel	Posted - 2008.07.22 13:27:00 - [130] It's pretty much all been said, but I wanted to add my two cents in: The "niche" part affects the playerbase numbers heavily. Specifically: - PVP. Historically, PVP MMO's have had lower population numbers than PVE MMO's. PVP servers are usually less populated than PVE servers. PVP areas are less populated than PVE areas (70% of EVE stays in high-sec Empire). - sci-fi/spaceships. The single-player combat sim genre died 10 years ago; Freespace 2, IWAR2 were pretty much the last games in the genre. Freelancer was an attempt, not sure how successful, to resurrect it. I love spaceships and flight sims, and I guess many people do, but not enough to make it profitable, I guess. Not as profitable as elves in skimpy outfits. As far as going after the WoW market, I think CCP are doing that, just not with EVE. EVE will stay the way it is and continue to develop in the direction it's going. CCP are coding that Vampire MMO, which has first person avatars walking around and fighting and interacting, and I'm guessing that that's more similar to WoW's environment, so that'll be how CCP goes after the WoW market. Incidentally, Blizzard probably has a Starcraft MMO in the works somewhere... sci-fi even if there's no ship combat, and then there's the Stargate MMO and a possible Star Wars MMO (yes, another one) to compete with that, and that new Jumpgate MMO to compete with the spaceship pewpew that EVE is. Not saying that any are any good, but CCP and everyone else are competing on many fronts.
Zaerlorth Maelkor The Maverick Navy Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.07.22 13:31:00 - [131] Originally by: Captain Falcord Originally by: Traidor Disloyal Originally by: Tippia The learning curve in ≡v≡ is murderous û WoW's isn't. Yes, yes it is: http://bloodeagles.com/images/LearningCurve.jpg If you look at it closely, that graph makes no sense :P. Put that way, it means you gain a LOT of skill in short time. Look at it this way: The skill graph is the amount of skill needed to have fun. Not the amount of skill you aquire from playing. ================================================== I should really get a sig.
Malcanis We are Legend	Posted - 2008.07.22 13:40:00 - [132] Originally by: Letouk Mernel It's pretty much all been said, but I wanted to add my two cents in: The "niche" part affects the playerbase numbers heavily. Specifically: - PVP. Historically, PVP MMO's have had lower population numbers than PVE MMO's. PVP servers are usually less populated than PVE servers. PVP areas are less populated than PVE areas (70% of EVE stays in high-sec Empire). - sci-fi/spaceships. The single-player combat sim genre died 10 years ago; Freespace 2, IWAR2 were pretty much the last games in the genre. Freelancer was an attempt, not sure how successful, to resurrect it. I love spaceships and flight sims, and I guess many people do, but not enough to make it profitable, I guess. Not as profitable as elves in skimpy outfits. As far as going after the WoW market, I think CCP are doing that, just not with EVE. EVE will stay the way it is and continue to develop in the direction it's going. CCP are coding that Vampire MMO, which has first person avatars walking around and fighting and interacting, and I'm guessing that that's more similar to WoW's environment, so that'll be how CCP goes after the WoW market. Incidentally, Blizzard probably has a Starcraft MMO in the works somewhere... sci-fi even if there's no ship combat, and then there's the Stargate MMO and a possible Star Wars MMO (yes, another one) to compete with that, and that new Jumpgate MMO to compete with the spaceship pewpew that EVE is. Not saying that any are any good, but CCP and everyone else are competing on many fronts. Well they're not competing until those games are actually launched. And by then they'll have a 6-year headstart in terms of installed playerbase, balancing and general experience. I'm not ruling out the possibility, but Jumpgate would have to be pretty damb awesome to entice me away from nearly 2 years investment in EvE, with all the skills, assets, friends, experience and contacts I've accumulated. There's also no way I'm paying subs to two MMOs. Realistically, even if Jumpgate or whatever is great it'll still be buggy and thinly populated to begin with. Say it's 6 months before they iron out the teething problems - another 6 months of investment in EvE.... I suspect that CCP will then raise their game with something like atmospheric flight (for the joystick jockeys) and/or planetary exploration (for the counterstrikers). Atmospheric flight would probably be the easiest to bolt on. All they have to do is add an off-the-shelf flight sim engine, tweak it, make up racial air fighters as a deployable module which you can fit in cargo (100m^3 or so) and you're off. It would be on separate servers - heck it should be available during downtime. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
djenghis jan Amarr 24th Imperial Crusade	Posted - 2008.07.22 14:02:00 - [133] Check out this podcast :van hemlock it has some rather interesting info on the matter...
Bfoster Minmatar Rising Federation	Posted - 2008.07.22 14:43:00 - [134] From a noob's prospective... Eve is not as big as WoW... Because.. 1.) The are not 50 copys at every Best Buy, like WoW.. 2.) Like said above, AoC and WoW, you can join a PVE server, fight monkeys with a glowing sword, and think your cool.. Its not hard, you will go from LVL 1 to LVL 20 in a few days, so kids think they are getting somewhere.. Real easy.. EVE, is a different story, jump the wrong gate, and ur ass is grass. Its one server, which is the way it should be, if you wanna PVP with your friends, you dont have to find which server they are on, just make a little journey through space. 3.) The gameplay is much more in depth, I wouldnt stay its hard for a noob, stay in high sec, learn some skills, make some money, meet some friends.. Same thing with any other MMO.. The game is best played with good people at your side no matter where you are! U gonna take your lvl 2 char and whoop a lvl 40 char on WoW or AoC? On day 2? Nope.. 4.)Blizzard is a name, they've got alot of loyal supporters, and for good reason. FUNCOM, well AoC is buggy to say the least, their last MMO was a flop because of thier customer support and game support(AO), this one will fall to.. I know too many canceling already..
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong	Posted - 2008.07.22 14:46:00 - [135] Originally by: Slanty McGarglefist Is CCP a publicly traded company? I demand stock options! this actually, where I can stick 1000$ in CCP stock?
RaTTuS BIG Libertas Fidelitas	Posted - 2008.07.22 14:48:00 - [136] CCp are private -- BIG Lottery, BIG Deal, InEve, USERPROFILE
Bfoster Minmatar Rising Federation	Posted - 2008.07.22 14:52:00 - [137] I just wanted to add again how great it is for EVE to be on ONE server.. If ur on the PVE server in AoC and caveman A walks by and I just feel like cutting him open, I cant, PVE server... But, on EVE... Even in high sec, I could shoot whomever I please.. I would pay for it, but im not being controlled or limited by the server I logged.. EVE Freedom ...
Crae Matreki Sten Industries	Posted - 2008.07.22 16:03:00 - [138] Originally by: CCP RyanD EVE is now the 3nd largest full-price western MMO behind World of Warcraft and Conan at just over 230K paid subscribers or paid subscriber equivalents. AoC is that popular? That's criminal - it's awful!!
Malcanis We are Legend	Posted - 2008.07.22 16:19:00 - [139] Originally by: Crae Matreki Originally by: CCP RyanD EVE is now the 3nd largest full-price western MMO behind World of Warcraft and Conan at just over 230K paid subscribers or paid subscriber equivalents. AoC is that popular? That's criminal - it's awful!! Everyone who bought the box set counts as a subscriber... till the end of the month. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
J Kunjeh Gallente	Posted - 2008.07.22 17:36:00 - [140] Originally by: Malcanis I like EvE all elitist and niche, thanks. +10 I think Eve is for a certain type of gamer, one that likes their games complicated and with complex real-world like mechanics (i.e. the Eve market). It's also for SciFi nerds, which doesn't have mass appeal. I like it this way. Slow, small and steady growth is a blessing for Eve and all of the players who love it.
Carnun Blodeuwedd	Posted - 2008.07.22 21:56:00 - [141] Edited by: Carnun Blodeuwedd on 22/07/2008 21:57:14 Most new players I believe will have a large lack of direction or lack the abilities to follow the path they want to be on when they start. Faction warfare certainly helped but I believe there's still a lot CCP can do. Part of the problem I think is that missions (at least level 1s, 2s and 3s) are very solo oriented when EVE is a very social/party/corp oriented game. Not to mention unbelievably mundane if you play alone. This is completely counter-productive, in my opinion they need to up the difficulty of at least everything after level 1s significantly, up the rewards and put the onus on the starting corps to form groups to do them. Also, (and its almost certainly been mentioned before but)wtf is the point in learning skills? This is a big time sink for new players where they could be training skills to go have fun. Abolish them (at least the basic ones) and find a way of reinbursing everyone who has trained them... so basically everyone. Originally by: Tarminic Originally by: Carnun Blodeuwedd Well forgive my bluntness but as I see it EVE loses a lot of potential customers because the new player experience: a) sucks b) is hard and takes a long time to get into c) requires a completely difference attitude to most MMOs and because the actual verbs that you do can be fairly boring. How recently have you tried it? I made a new character for kicks a month ago and I was really amazed at how in-depth the tutorials and everything are now. They even have a mission that acts as a tutorial for invention. Well almost a year ago now but yeh it has improved but given the obvious complexity and steep learning/progression curve of EVE, the new player experience may be as long as x months (depends on the player really), Gnulpie describes this quite well.
Bfoster Minmatar Rising Federation	Posted - 2008.07.22 22:16:00 - [142] Originally by: Crae Matreki Originally by: CCP RyanD EVE is now the 3nd largest full-price western MMO behind World of Warcraft and Conan at just over 230K paid subscribers or paid subscriber equivalents. AoC is that popular? That's criminal - it's awful!! Whats real funny is how they "duped" all there fans into joining fileplanet to get early access for like a week or 2. I can't believe people actually went for that... Lame... Huge money scam between FUNCOM and Fileplanet.
Skipdog	Posted - 2008.07.22 22:31:00 - [143] Originally by: Karii Ildarian Done correctly, I think that Ambulation could easly double the player base. whoaaaa, i about fell out of my chair laughing!!! how is "walking around and not being able to do anything useful" going to attract players? lolol seriously, "walking around as your character" is not going to bring NEW players into the game. it will only please those who have never played a real mmo(and think it will be SO MUCH FUN to be able to WALK AROUND OMG!!!) and just **** off pilots who realize how pointless the entire concept is.
Johnny English Caldari Dark Entropy G00DFELLAS	Posted - 2008.07.22 22:56:00 - [144] 1. Eve is one server , therefore can take on aset amount of players. WoW has like 20 servers taking on much more players. for one server competing against games with multiple servers, its quite impressive 2. EvE was sold in a box in game in 2003, i have 2 copies with the orginal case, cd and tutorial book, teaches you how to mine and create a character and gives you a timeline of eve for the win :D 3. CCP has grown you know it owns this white wolf company and will most prob start development of the card games white wolf have made, eve has room for improvement they'll leave some art designers, coders, programmers and what not for it, but ccp has bigger plans o/
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong	Posted - 2008.07.22 23:07:00 - [145] Originally by: Johnny English 1. Eve is one server , therefore can take on aset amount of players. WoW has like 20 servers taking on much more players. for one server competing against games with multiple servers, its quite impressive 2. EvE was sold in a box in game in 2003, i have 2 copies with the orginal case, cd and tutorial book, teaches you how to mine and create a character and gives you a timeline of eve for the win :D 3. CCP has grown you know it owns this white wolf company and will most prob start development of the card games white wolf have made, eve has room for improvement they'll leave some art designers, coders, programmers and what not for it, but ccp has bigger plans o/ actually wow has over 400 servers lol. which is madness.
Soporo Caldari	Posted - 2008.07.22 23:16:00 - [146] Quote: Done correctly, I think that Ambulation could easly double the player base. This is what scares me. Sooner or later those people will actually undock and do stuff.
Angela Toren Amarr Toren Shipyards	Posted - 2008.07.22 23:31:00 - [147] Edited by: Angela Toren on 22/07/2008 23:32:44 Originally by: trading hub Im a stil a bit confused, why is it EVE online lagging big time in terms of population behind other MMOs. CCP started eariler than WOW, so they had first mover advantage, why is it CCP could not capitalize on booming internet growth same way WOW did ? Any thought on this ? Disclaimer: All stupid morron trolls, please DO go away: 1) Im not saying that wow is better 2) I really would like to see what is happening with the game and gauge some thoughts in the subject 3) Please DO read comment about trolls. Thank you EVE is internet spaceships, WOW is not. Internet spaceships has a very select following, usually those who like sci fi whilst fantasy mmo's have always appealed to the larger more general audience. This fact will always show when viewing subscriber numbers based on the genre. CCP is hoping to blur the lines somewhat with the ambulation project so those that love full body avatar games but are not too keen on spaceships might give Eve a try rather than ignoring it altogether. _______ Oh Mindy...
Yelan Zhou Amarr Hedion University	Posted - 2008.07.22 23:32:00 - [148] Originally by: Cat Gilligan Edited by: Cat Gilligan on 22/07/2008 01:14:32 I don't WANT CCP to go after WOW, or their players. I'm happy with EVE as a relative niche game, but it's a HIGHLY successful niche... Star Wars Galaxies used to also be pretty complex and hardcore, and stood out as a successor to UO instead of EQ (WoW is in the EQ mold, and SWG's original Devs were mostly UO Devs) and management decided (foolishly) to chase the WoW audience because 250K subs weren't "enough". Today they have far less than 50K and the WORST reputation in the industry, to the point that to even MENTION the "NGE" (the biggest "fail" in the history of MMO's) anywhere generates "SOE sucks" hatred. I don't want to ever see ANY hint of WoWishness in EVE or CCP. EVE has grown to where it is because of the game that it is. To try to be anything else would be to "failcascade" like SWG did. And I think our Devs are smart enough to know it. Iam a SWG (pre NGE) Vet. and you are dam right.I will never ever buy another Sony product again. War, War never changes.
Billy Sastard Amarr Life. Universe. Everything.	Posted - 2008.07.22 23:43:00 - [149] There are a lot of good points in this thread that help to answer the OP's question, however I feel it all boils down to one thing... *EVE is just too freakin awesome for the masses.* They just cant take it. -=^=-
Buyerr	Posted - 2008.07.23 01:10:00 - [150] Originally by: Arvald eve isnt heavily advertised ehh main reason is that ccp don't give a shit what people want, ccp give people what ccp want themselve, which is a hardcore non caring game with a pve as bad as the old amiga games etc etc. the reason it is not popular is that they don't listend or they just don't care to bring people what they want, realise most mmo'ers are pve'ers with a joy for pvp. real pvp type players play cs, instant fair action. meaning, having shitty pve in a game that is not instant fair action will result in a very low playerbase, even worse most of all players have atleast two accounts (some of them have up to 8 :/) which means that the actual playerbase is properly not nearly half of the assigned accounts. I declare war on stupidity

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