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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
trading hub
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Posted - 2008.06.18 18:37:00 -
[1]
Im a stil a bit confused, why is it EVE online lagging big time in terms of population behind other MMOs. CCP started eariler than WOW, so they had first mover advantage, why is it CCP could not capitalize on booming internet growth same way WOW did ?
Any thought on this ?
Disclaimer: All stupid morron trolls, please DO go away:
1) Im not saying that wow is better
2) I really would like to see what is happening with the game and gauge some thoughts in the subject
3) Please DO read comment about trolls.
Thank you
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Arvald
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.06.18 18:39:00 -
[2]
eve isnt heavily advertised
 Originally by: Xanos Blackpaw
Stealthbomber combat (or as i like to call it: Just because you are paranoid don't mean there isnt a invisible demon about to eat your face)
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Mangala Solaris
Ma'adim Logistics
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Posted - 2008.06.18 18:41:00 -
[3]
The masses of mmo players werent masses back when eve was released, and as Arvald says EVE wasnt (and still isnt) heavily advertised.
Even now, when it has more exposure and is considerably easier to get into that it used to be, its still pretty niche. Which is good.
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trading hub
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Posted - 2008.06.18 18:44:00 -
[4]
Niche can be good
But look at it like this - more players, more revenue, (ofc yes that costs increase too) but in absolute terms net incoem is higher for the company -> much more money to introduce new content and make game more fun !
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PaddyPaddy Nihildarnik
aurorae pacificas
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Posted - 2008.06.18 18:49:00 -
[5]
Edited by: PaddyPaddy Nihildarnik on 18/06/2008 18:50:15
Three reasons imo
1. Blizzard already had a successful template and brand to work from. The WOW brand was already huge before the MMO, so Id imagine that helped enormously.
2. CCP seems to have gone for exotic and niche over masses, which is what makes eve unique and worthwhile to play. Its also alot harsher which im sure puts off alot of players.
3. Complexity. It takes months to understand the basic mechanics of the game, let alone the actual political history of the larger alliances and finer points of pvp. Simply put, its difficult for younger or less intelligent users to roll a char and head off to "quest" a "dungeon" or whatever, again making Eve unique and captivating for those who can bear with the learning curve. I nearly gave eve up when I first started due to the difficulty and (wrong) assumption that I would never catch up to everyone else. Glad I didnt.
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Tippia
School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2008.06.18 18:52:00 -
[6]
WoW builds on a gaming IP that gained world-wide popularity when it was launched 15 years ago, and which has maintained it ever since.
PvP-centric MMOs have always lagged behind PvE ones (cf. Planetside, WW2O and the splintering of UO).
The learning curve in ≡v≡ is murderous – WoW's isn't.
≡v≡ offers zero goals and motivations to the player, and has no end-game – players who are unable/unwilling to actively decide and pursue their own end-states will quickly drop out. WoW holds your hand every step of the way.
…also, based on nothing but my own observations on RPGs (both computerised and pen-and-paper), I'd say that a lot of people get really confused by not having the classic, clearly defined classes and levels to provide structure to their gaming experience, which means ≡v≡ freaks them right out, while they feel right at home in carbon-copy-of-everything-that's-gone-before-WoW.
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Corduroy Rab
Digital Fury Corporation
Digital Renegades
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Posted - 2008.06.18 18:52:00 -
[7]
I'd venture to say (like the others) that the advertising had something to do with it. I also hear the launch was a bit lackluster. WoW also had the advantage of being an adapatation of an already existant and sucessful product while eve was a original creation. Last, I do not think that the way eve was designed has as wide of an appeal as wow (permentant losses etc...), not that I am saying that is a bad thing.
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Patch86
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2008.06.18 18:52:00 -
[8]
Furthermore, due to the non-sharded nature of EVE, it physically couldn't support as many players as WoW right now, with the technology available. If EVE had a million players, it'd be completely unplayable.
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Originally by: Dark Shikari
The problem with killing Jesus is he always just respawns 3 days later anyways. |
Roy Batty68
Immortal Dead
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Posted - 2008.06.18 18:54:00 -
[9]
niche game
I don't think it's supposed to appeal to the masses. They're trying to broaden their demographic via the ambulation project. However they've never given the impression that they desire to appeal to the greater MMO masses with sugar-coated-grindcraft-like gameplay.
Besides, the single shard aspect is what makes it special. They simply aren't capable of hosting that many concurrent logins. No MMO is.
Which, in my mind, is a quality over quantity thing. There's a pretty cool thread in C&P where some dudes smack talk basically got him booted from his corp because quite a few people were willing to war dec his corp in response to his racist BS.
Name another MMO where that's going to happen.
One virtual world. Actions have consequences. It's friggen awsome.
That aspect alone makes it worthwhile, even if it does mean a smaller slice of the MMO population pie.
Sig removed, inappropriate content. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Doc Fury
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Posted - 2008.06.18 18:56:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Arvald
eve isnt heavily advertised
I guess that depends on what you mean by "heavily".
IIRC, CCP spent over 7+ Million dollars on advertising last year. That's before EVEtv and all the other fluff.
It's so safe to play along, little soldiers in a row
Falling in and out of love, with something sweet to throw away.
I want something good to DIE for...to make it beautiful to live. |
Alenia Swift
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.06.18 19:01:00 -
[11]
Eve is an oddity when it comes to population.
Most games start big and fizzle out slowly over time. Eve on the other hand started very small and has had steady growth over a very long period of time. With the exceptions of the very first MMO this is rare.
There are many games that have come and gone in the time that Eve has been around. Many had great launches such as Earth and Beyond, Horizons and some I can not even remember. I remember the days when Eve had less than 4000 people online at any one time.
WOW can not be counted as typical. Blizzard had a fan base and had an appeal to console players as well. It caused an expansion of online play, with great marketing and a bankroll to boot.
Eve had one office in a older building in Iceland, and has grown ever since. They acquired White Wolf and now working on another game through them, and this done primarily by word of mouth and internet advertising.
The other side, to look at is EVE is making money (note the acquisition) many MMO never do this even the big ones take years to cover the initial investments.
CCP is the little company that could.
5 years and growing how many games can make that claim?
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Traidor Disloyal
NightCrew
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Posted - 2008.06.18 19:12:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Tippia
The learning curve in ≡v≡ is murderous û WoW's isn't.
Yes, yes it is:
http://bloodeagles.com/images/LearningCurve.jpg
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Love is having a second account with a cov ops pilot |
brinelan
Victory Not Vengeance
Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2008.06.18 19:16:00 -
[13]
250,000 is about the same or better as all but a very few mmo's in terms of playerbase.
What's the problem. WOW's population is a fluke. Most "successful" mmo's are around the 250k population range (except those asian free to play rmt ones).
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Some days you're the bug, some days you're the windshield |
Taedrin
Royal Hiigaran Navy
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Posted - 2008.06.18 19:16:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Traidor Disloyal
Originally by: Tippia
The learning curve in ≡v≡ is murderous û WoW's isn't.
Yes, yes it is:
http://bloodeagles.com/images/LearningCurve.jpg
/thread
pure win right there.
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Qduhaf
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Posted - 2008.06.18 19:25:00 -
[15]
I haven't played WOW or some other highly succesful MMO's but I would say that they have far more "content", especially for the solo player and players with limited play time (IE defined start/end). EVE isn't a game you just play, its a new life that you get absorbed into.
But it has a steep learning curve, both from a game play perspective and actual skill training, so it takes a long time to feel that you are part of that world, losing a lot of players in the path to the 3 month point where you can start to make an impact. Then it probably loses a lot of people after the year point as they realize that playing a game for 8 hours a day isn't what they want to do, because nothing in EVE (like RL) really happens fast. Truy rewarding moments are few and far between, and there aren't really a lot instant rushes.
PVP in Eve is harsh, and therfore very exciting. But considering that it often takes 10 hours of play to afford well fitted T2 ship, there are actually very few people that want to make that kind of commitment to really enjoy the finest aspect of EVE.
CCP seem to spend a lot of time/effort focusing on the 0.0 alliance end games and catering to the highest SP players. I think this is because those are the players they most see themselves as, dedicated to living in this alternative reality. But made a big mistake on the POS mechanisms and cap ships. Those 2 "features" and continue blob escalation have driven the more casual player to the fringe of 0.0 (either a casual participant in large 0.0 allaince, or into smaler npc station corp, or now into FW). The average person can't make a difference, and gets bored spending hours for a single fight or even worse POS shooting/defending. So many of more dedicated players are getting dissatisfied with product
FW seems to be a step in the direction of increasing participation without all the huge time commitments of 0.0 alliances. A single palyer in a T1 ship can get a feeling of team accomplishment without requiring hours everyday of play time. But in a few weeks time FW will start to look more like 0.0 warfare, or it will fizzle out. Its just a natural response to the harsh reality of PVP in EVE, blobs will form for protection.
IF CCP wants to increase players they need to focus more on content of the game, and make PVP even more accessible while controlling the blobs. At some level need to introduce artificial mechanisms to reduce the blob mentality. That won't appeal to the EVE purist, but it would to the masses. I don't expect CCP will go that far until its too late though, its a company run by the purists.
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Daelin Blackleaf
Naqam
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Posted - 2008.06.18 19:25:00 -
[16]
Barriers to entry.
In EVE they are part of the games natural complexity.
In WoW they are hunted down vigorously.
While simplifying entry into EVE could be done, it would be at a cost to the community, that cost being that people too dumb to buy modules, fit ships, and hit things with turrets will be flying round in pre-fitted Kestrels.
It remains to be seen whether or not CCP will cave in to the pressure of appealing to a larger market, so far signs hint to the answer being no, and we shouldn't look at the simplification of overcomplicated systems as dumbing down EVE.
Sig removed, inappropriate content. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Tippia
School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2008.06.18 19:26:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Traidor Disloyal
Originally by: Tippia
The learning curve in ≡v≡ is murderous – WoW's isn't.
Yes, yes it is:
http://bloodeagles.com/images/LearningCurve.jpg
I was thinking specifically about that image – this time I'll remember to bookmark it 
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Jenny Spitfire
LoneStar Industries
Veritas Immortalis
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Posted - 2008.06.18 19:28:00 -
[18]
My opinon is mabe wow is moar poppular or a super produck. It is not liek peopel want to buy soemthing defektive ...
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Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria!
Go vote!
Put voice for silent majority.
LOVE PVP, HATE grief |
Cors
It's A Trap
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Posted - 2008.06.18 19:43:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Cors on 18/06/2008 19:44:27
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
My opinon is mabe wow is moar poppular or a super produck. It is not liek peopel want to buy soemthing defektive ...
seeing as you're like the 75th person to "Own" Jenny Spitfire, and you seem to be unable to type, we'll ignore you.
EVE is a game that not many will be interested in just because of the content.
It's Hard.
It has no clearly defined goals.
It's complex.
It has no "path" to greatness.
It takes true real life skills to succeed in pvp.
And the Lag.... if we get those new servers online and eliminate lag, you'd see a LOT more people come back. The lure of 2000 vs 2000 battles with next to no lag would ensure it's place in history. Haveing battles that would last hours just because there are SO MANY hostiles on screen, would lure a LOT of old players back.
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Jacob Mei
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Posted - 2008.06.18 19:51:00 -
[20]
Being popular is not nessessarly a good thing. History has proven time and again once a company reaches a certain point, the greed factor sets in and they take short cuts, thus making an inferior product.
Look at Dell for example, at one point they did make good products, had an award winning tech support division and what not, now look at them. Making crappy computers and you have to set your day aside with the tech support just to get them to admit you have a problem (hell, these days they would perfer to talk you threw the repairs on the phone then send a repairman like they are contractually obligated to do).
In any case, CCP in my opinion is doing things right. They were able to land airing an ad each friday when galactica was on, they have been continously releasing new content twice a year, they are working towards several other projects as well. Will they eve beat WoW? I doubt and hope not. I dont think out of the whole video game population that there is a majority that could handle what EvE is like.
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To borrow a phrase:
Players who post are like stars, there are bright ones and those who are dim.
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Tharukan Desm'ar
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Posted - 2008.06.18 20:07:00 -
[21]
From the people I've met in eve. The maturity level of a lot of the friends Ive made has been much higher compared to many other MMO's Ive played. Plus its a very niche game due to its initial complexity getting started. Bigger isn't always better due to how most games player base Ive been in from near launch has suffered in quality as it has grown subscriber-wise. More players = more idiots sometimes.
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CCP RyanD
C C P
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Posted - 2008.06.18 20:09:00 -
[22]
Originally by: trading hub
Im a stil a bit confused, why is it EVE online lagging big time in terms of population behind other MMOs.
EVE is now the 3nd largest full-price western MMO behind World of Warcraft and Conan at just over 230K paid subscribers or paid subscriber equivalents. Runescape and Dofus are larger in absolute terms but they have a significant free-play component and a discounted ($5) monthly subscription price for people who choose to pay.
EVE is bigger than EverQuest, EverQuest II, Lord of the Rings Online, Dungeons & Dragons Online, etc.
In addition, EVE grows every year and has since release. Unlike every other MMO in the market EVE's growth rate is actually increasing not decreasing as time passes.
Here's a lot of data for the curious.
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Patch86
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2008.06.18 20:11:00 -
[23]
Originally by: CCP RyanD
3nd
Thats a little confusing
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Originally by: Dark Shikari
The problem with killing Jesus is he always just respawns 3 days later anyways. |
Jinx Barker
GFB Scientific
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Posted - 2008.06.18 20:14:00 -
[24]
Originally by: CCP RyanD
EVE is now the 3nd largest full-price western MMO behind World of Warcraft and Conan at just over 230K paid subscribers or paid subscriber equivalents. Runescape and Dofus are larger in absolute terms but they have a significant free-play component and a discounted ($5) monthly subscription price for people who choose to pay.
EVE is bigger than EverQuest, EverQuest II, Lord of the Rings Online, Dungeons & Dragons Online, etc.
In addition, EVE grows every year and has since release. Unlike every other MMO in the market EVE's growth rate is actually increasing not decreasing as time passes.
Here's a lot of data for the curious.
I love how EVE keeps climbing ever so "slowly" compared to other MMOs - basically shows that whatever the case maybe a certain number of gamers comes in, and out of that number there are always those who stay and keep an going.
A steady climb, without much break, vs. zig-zagging of other MMOs that attract people with passing fads and then drop like a rock in "attendance."
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Haywoode Jablome
State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.06.18 20:14:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Patch86
Originally by: CCP RyanD
3nd
Thats a little confusing
It's Wishfull thinking
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Mankirks Wife
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Posted - 2008.06.18 20:23:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Mankirks Wife on 18/06/2008 20:27:35
Originally by: CCP RyanD
EVE is bigger than EverQuest, EverQuest II, Lord of the Rings Online, Dungeons & Dragons Online, etc.
In addition, EVE grows every year and has since release. Unlike every other MMO in the market EVE's growth rate is actually increasing not decreasing as time passes.
Here's a lot of data for the curious.
LOL. CCP says, "Yeah, we pwned everyone except WoW and the guys who just launched last week a while ago. It was nothing - really."
As for the increasing growth rate.. I'll use myself as an example.
I played DAOC. I played WoW for a while. Then I got tired of the RPG-On-Rails and Game-With-Training-Wheels mentality of the devs, tried Eve about a year ago (A year in August, actually), and immediately loved it. I have a feeling many others who come to Eve and stay feel the same way.
Also the way the game is designed, it can be added to endlessly, without rendering anything that came before obsolete, which is a huge problem in the other MMOs I've played and really made them feel stale after a while when you're running around looking at all the crap nobody does anymore 'cause it's not 'end-game' (whoever came up with that concept for an MMO should be shot in the face, btw), too low-level, has crap rewards, everyone's already done it 10,000 times, etx.
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Robert Rosenberg
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2008.06.18 20:27:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Robert Rosenberg on 18/06/2008 20:28:01
Edited by: Robert Rosenberg on 18/06/2008 20:27:42
Just so that everyone knows, the impressive subscription stats on Age of Conan are indicative of an impressive launch BOX sale, not actual subscriptions. In order do use your free 30 days with the Age of Conan box you must start a recurring subscription plan, even if you cancel it within the first 30 days and are never billed.
So every single box that they sold counts as a subscriber, whether or not that person ever subscribes. I personally thought that AoC was crap and canceled my sub and sold my account on Craigslist on launch week, and I doubt I am alone in terms of bought-but-never-subscribed.
The AoC numbers remind me of a certain quote... "There are lies, damn lies, and statistics". CCP and Blizzard count money in the bank, AoC tries to manipulate the facts so their abysmal game does not appear to be flopping so hard.
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Danadur
Naval Protection Corp
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Posted - 2008.06.18 20:34:00 -
[28]
3 letters...P. V. P. When you can't get to the "end game" of a MMO without PvP, a large portion of the MMO player base runs away and hides under their mum's skirts, crying their eyes out. They are skert to play a real MMO! Thus, as other peeps have said, it's a "niche" game. Only the hard core players come and play in this ballfield.
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Cassandra Valieries
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Posted - 2008.06.18 20:35:00 -
[29]
Wow is the Macdonalds of MMOs, while EVE is a gourmet restaurant. WoW and it's clones will always have more players than quality games like EVE, and we EVE players will have a lot more quality thant the ******s playing WoW or whatever hyped up game that just launched...
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Furious Hawk
Farlight Optic Council
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Posted - 2008.06.18 20:40:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Furious Hawk on 18/06/2008 20:41:00
Edited by: Furious Hawk on 18/06/2008 20:40:43
Originally by: PaddyPaddy Nihildarnik
Edited by: PaddyPaddy Nihildarnik on 18/06/2008 18:50:15
The WOW brand was already huge before the MMO, so Id imagine that helped enormously.
I think you mean the WARCRAFT brand. I didn't spend half my childhood playing "World of Warcraft" on my uncle's Mac.
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Everyone is entitled to my opinion. |
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