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RigelKentaurus Flying Tartiflette Caldari Deep Space Industral	Posted - 2008.06.19 01:36:00 - [91] Originally by: Pan Crastus Many players seem to play EVE simply because they want a sci-fi MMO with long-term appeal (due to the market and the persistant world) and there's very little available in that niche. Indeed, CCP has almost a monopoly over space MMOs. Personnally, I'm only here because there are spaceships. While I don't dislike the "harsh death penalty" idea, I really hate the way it's been implemented (blobs exist because of that). What would be interesting to know is what would the current EVE population look like if E&B were still around. _________ Someday, EVE may look like this.
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong	Posted - 2008.06.19 03:59:00 - [92] ummm the 4th more popular mmorpg is final fantasy 11... which has 500,000 members. which is a lie but we'll pretend that's not the case :P making eve the 5th most popular mmorpg. 5th place is great.
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong	Posted - 2008.06.19 04:02:00 - [93] Originally by: CCP RyanD Originally by: trading hub Im a stil a bit confused, why is it EVE online lagging big time in terms of population behind other MMOs. EVE is now the 3nd largest full-price western MMO behind World of Warcraft and Conan at just over 230K paid subscribers or paid subscriber equivalents. Runescape and Dofus are larger in absolute terms but they have a significant free-play component and a discounted ($5) monthly subscription price for people who choose to pay. EVE is bigger than EverQuest, EverQuest II, Lord of the Rings Online, Dungeons & Dragons Online, etc. In addition, EVE grows every year and has since release. Unlike every other MMO in the market EVE's growth rate is actually increasing not decreasing as time passes. Here's a lot of data for the curious. I stand corrected :P I guess final fantasy 11 was lying! yarr!
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong	Posted - 2008.06.19 04:06:00 - [94] Originally by: trading hub Just to be fair Id like to say that majority of MMO comunity prefer to play fantasy (Warrior, Wizzard) type of games, rather than SCI-FI games. Not sure how to explains that, perhpas owing to D&D paper game or smth. Then there is not much market left as such for EVE to chop into by definition. However I would still argue, that in current state of internet "sophistication" it is very easy to teach players anything, and if your game is genuinly appealing then it will eat into existing market shares of other games. but MORE people play eve that 98% of fantasy mmorpgs. they are all below eve other than two.
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong	Posted - 2008.06.19 04:06:00 - [95] Originally by: Pan Crastus EVE is the only MMO where the average player has something like 2.5 accounts. ;-) [/quote sorry but CCP did a study on this in the co report only 20% of the eve community has more than one account.
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong	Posted - 2008.06.19 04:08:00 - [96] Edited by: MotherMoon on 19/06/2008 04:10:10 Originally by: Captain Falcord Originally by: Traidor Disloyal Originally by: Tippia The learning curve in ≡v≡ is murderous û WoW's isn't. Yes, yes it is: http://bloodeagles.com/images/LearningCurve.jpg If you look at it closely, that graph makes no sense :P. Put that way, it means you gain a LOT of skill in short time. actully it goes back in time when you get pod killed and forget to get a new clone! EDIT: sorry about all my posts :P I had too many people to reply too while I was reading :P Right so someone said something about competed with second life. Guess what if eve dumbed down to second life standard it could support over 400,000 people easy. but there is a problem... eve has game mechcanics :)
Elessina Antares Fleet Yards SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2008.06.19 05:00:00 - [97] Edited by: Elessina on 19/06/2008 05:00:54 Of all the MMOs currently in publication, I'd be willing to bet on only WoW and EVE (or their corresponding successor/sequel) insofar as long term future and success. The way I see it, WoW will continue to attract mostly the younger generation of gamer looking for fun and easy gameplay, and the "I am a god" type experience. (WoW at the moment also attracts people of the older generation who are only just getting into games - but they can be ignored as they are a dying demographic). However, as these WoW gamers grow up, go to uni/trade school, learn various skills (accouting, economics, engineering, maths, science, etc.), enter the work force, and generally become more mature, a complicated, "sand box" game like EVE will begin to appear more appealing than WoW. IMO, the relevance of real world knowledge and skills in a game, and the ability to apply such knowledge/skills in the game makes the game especially appealing/enjoyable to persons with such RL knkowledge/skills. For example, if one had a look at the Market Discussion sub-forum, some of the discussions there are so academically challenging that you literally need a degree in commerce/econ/accounting/finance to begin to make heads or tails out of it. And I am sure these people take great pleasure out of being able to apply their RL knowledge to EVE. Similarly, those EVE subscribers who have had military or para-military experience in RL would be attracted to the PvP aspects of EVE such as leading fleets and alliances, managing logistics/supply lines, defending territory, and military tactics in general. As the population of most 1st world countries is generally aging, and as the education of children/teen agers/adults is become more and more accelerated, I reckon EVE is well placed to be a market leader in the coming years. The fact that EVE's subscription is lower than some of the other MMO's currently in publication, together with the fact that EVE is showing positive growth, means only that EVE has not yet peaked. Using the "buy low sell her" rule, EVE has basically identified an undervalued stock, invested heavily in it, and is now riding the upward trend. My 2c. --Ele edit: typos + grammatical
Mara Rinn	Posted - 2008.06.19 05:37:00 - [98] Originally by: Captain Falcord If you look at it closely, that graph makes no sense :P. Put that way, it means you gain a LOT of skill in short time. Alternately, view the line as "the level of skill you must have in order for continued play to be meaningful," rather than "the level of skill you get spoonfed while playing the game." :) So with EVE you can get in your ship, run the tutorial missions, then go start a career mining veldspar in the starter system in a frigate! Woot! Day one of EVE is so easy, you even have the game telling you how to play! Then you get to day 2. You've finished the tutorials, and mining veldspar in your Ibis is getting kinda old. Now what? There's no NPC standing around with a big exclamation mark above its head to tell you what to do next! OH NOES! Welcome to the extremely steep learning curve of EVE :)
Pan Crastus Anti-Metagaming League	Posted - 2008.06.19 06:15:00 - [99] Originally by: Danton Marcellus Originally by: Pan Crastus ...So you are saying that you are competing with Second Life, which is a 60.000 PCU system... Is that something like World of World of Warcraft? No, it's something like Ambulation. How to PVP: 1. buy ISK with GTCs, 2. fit cloak, learn aggro mechanics, 3. buy second account for metagaming
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong	Posted - 2008.06.19 06:22:00 - [100] Edited by: MotherMoon on 19/06/2008 06:22:03 Originally by: Pan Crastus Originally by: Danton Marcellus Originally by: Pan Crastus ...So you are saying that you are competing with Second Life, which is a 60.000 PCU system... Is that something like World of World of Warcraft? No, it's something like Ambulation. yeah but at least ambulation won't have player modeled assets... shutters... SL is a **** store by the way, honest.
Olli Hokkanen Full Life Alternative	Posted - 2008.06.19 07:17:00 - [101] eves largest problems are: warp drive active.. zzz warping.. zzz its just too damn boring, even 0.0 alliances arent much fun since mostly you wait at the station for orders/rat in belts while waiting
trading hub	Posted - 2008.06.19 08:51:00 - [102] It was very interesting to have at numbers at this website MMORPG charts. IÆve done some number crunching to understand how EVE is position on competitive landscape and thatÆs what IÆve found out. 1.60% of games exhibited negative average annual growth of subscribers (consequently 40% exhibited positive growth, that includes EVE) 2.Top performer was not ! WOW but relatively young game called DOFUS. However in my view it can be attributed to the fact, that the game is young, and it may as well decline in the future, as we have seen with many other games. In the light of that uncontested leader is WOW with average annual growth of 151% 3.Average annual growth across all games including those with negative growth was 23%, excluding those with negative growth 77% 4.Worst performer was Vanguard: Saga of Heroes with negative annual growth of 56% EVE average annual growth was 74% - what can we learn from this ? û EVE is very stable good average market participant. It falls into 40% of positive performers, it also perform somewhat in line with the rest of the market, i.e. in line with 77% average growth across the board. Hence I would say that all in all EVE business model is a success, however if I was a shareholder of CCP , then I would definitely say that it is not good enough and that the game should perform better than the market. EVE definitely has some unique game mechanics, and it appears that CCP is relatively flexible in terms of implementing additional content. IÆm not saying that EVE should mimic WOW, however as they say in US û ôYou can be excused for not inventing a good idea, but there is no excuse for not stealing a good ideaö. I suppose you could definently learn from best market players out there. To me it appears the game designers are already learning. FW adds much more player interaction to the game, which I think is a distinctive feature of WOW. And obviously as devs comment themselves that they are looking to induce more interaction between EVE rpg content universe and players community. Which is a good thing.
Sidney Greenstreet	Posted - 2008.07.22 00:12:00 - [103] Here is the #1 problem with EVE, nobody knows what it is... They have no idea how vast it is, how detailed it is, how broad the options are for player participation, and that the end game can continue for years... I have played EQ, DAOC, Shadowbane, WOW, AOC, and now EVE (for a week). I had no idea what EVE was until a guy playing AOC heard me talk about Shadowbane and how it had the best conceptual design due to the fact that players actually control the politics and join likeminded "guilds" and form realms. He was adamant that EVE was like that, so I decided to look it up, and here I am... As far as the idea stealing, it's EVE that the other MMO's need to mimic, as no other game has this level of player implemented politics, mixed with a PVP system that works and actually has an end game. Content is great for the future, but accurately communicating to the gaming world what EVE actually is and represents is by far the main need that needs to be addressed... People just don't get it...
Cat Gilligan Caldari Blair Corporation	Posted - 2008.07.22 01:14:00 - [104] Edited by: Cat Gilligan on 22/07/2008 01:14:32 I don't WANT CCP to go after WOW, or their players. I'm happy with EVE as a relative niche game, but it's a HIGHLY successful niche... Star Wars Galaxies used to also be pretty complex and hardcore, and stood out as a successor to UO instead of EQ (WoW is in the EQ mold, and SWG's original Devs were mostly UO Devs) and management decided (foolishly) to chase the WoW audience because 250K subs weren't "enough". Today they have far less than 50K and the WORST reputation in the industry, to the point that to even MENTION the "NGE" (the biggest "fail" in the history of MMO's) anywhere generates "SOE sucks" hatred. I don't want to ever see ANY hint of WoWishness in EVE or CCP. EVE has grown to where it is because of the game that it is. To try to be anything else would be to "failcascade" like SWG did. And I think our Devs are smart enough to know it.
Wrayeth Inexorable Retribution	Posted - 2008.07.22 01:37:00 - [105] Edited by: Wrayeth on 22/07/2008 01:37:51 Originally by: Pan Crastus So you are saying that you are competing with Second Life, which is a 60.000 PCU system. Second life doesn't allow you to pew-pew other players right in the face. It's also a different genre as far as sci-fi/fantasy/modern life/historical fiction/etc. goes. Quote: As a long-time player I find this debatable. I think the only reason why people are still finding the capacity of the cluster barely acceptable is because they adapt or leave. Many would love to have playable 500v500 fleet fights (or even 200v200) nowdays and know that it's not possible (with little or no lag). It doesn't mean that the cluster is delivering the performance it should. As another individual has said, every time CCP improves the servers the players just bring a larger blob. A 100-v-100 fleet fight was considered massive at one point, FFS. Originally by: Cat Gilligan Edited by: Cat Gilligan on 22/07/2008 01:14:32 I don't WANT CCP to go after WOW, or their players. I'm happy with EVE as a relative niche game, but it's a HIGHLY successful niche... Star Wars Galaxies used to also be pretty complex and hardcore, and stood out as a successor to UO instead of EQ (WoW is in the EQ mold, and SWG's original Devs were mostly UO Devs) and management decided (foolishly) to chase the WoW audience because 250K subs weren't "enough". Today they have far less than 50K and the WORST reputation in the industry, to the point that to even MENTION the "NGE" (the biggest "fail" in the history of MMO's) anywhere generates "SOE sucks" hatred. I don't want to ever see ANY hint of WoWishness in EVE or CCP. EVE has grown to where it is because of the game that it is. To try to be anything else would be to "failcascade" like SWG did. And I think our Devs are smart enough to know it. This. -Wrayeth n00b Extraordinaire "Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing to this thread!"
Schani Kratnorr x13	Posted - 2008.07.22 02:59:00 - [106] EVEs Sci-fi setting and un-sharded game world makes it a more interesting game to play. I have been playing EVE since it came out, and have been around for the growing pains. THE best thing to happen for EVE was when CCP aquired the distribution rights from Simon & Shuster, who quite frankly did a half-assed job at promoting the game. Another milestone was when CCP gave two months free to all the refugees from Earth & Beyond - a nice gesture that earned them many points with the Sci-Fi crowd. These events may lie years in the past, but they occured at a time when EVE could easily have gone down the toilet instead of where it is now. As for WoW - well it had and has its fanbase. it has magic swords, orcs and potions. It is an avatar-based game that is supreemely done - but seen from the outside, it does not appear to expand much on the basic design of this type of game. EVE is the only game where you can fly a huge spaceship. Play the user-driven market. Be s smuggler, hero, villain, pirate, tycoon, politician, diplomat, recruiter, leader, spy, and much more... ¦ It will take a well executed, expansive and franchise-driven competitor to make a dent. Star Trek/Wars might have what it takes, but their respective owners are content with non-visionary developers churning out useless crap (with a few exeptions). EVE Online is always at a crossroads. On one hand the game has technical issues that need adressing, and some argue the finer points of PvP are lost in the blob. On the other hand, it does deliver a unique experience - and that is what keeps people coming back for more.
Sidney Greenstreet	Posted - 2008.07.22 03:20:00 - [107] Originally by: Cat Gilligan Edited by: Cat Gilligan on 22/07/2008 01:14:32 I don't WANT CCP to go after WOW, or their players. I'm happy with EVE as a relative niche game, but it's a HIGHLY successful niche... Star Wars Galaxies used to also be pretty complex and hardcore, and stood out as a successor to UO instead of EQ (WoW is in the EQ mold, and SWG's original Devs were mostly UO Devs) and management decided (foolishly) to chase the WoW audience because 250K subs weren't "enough". Today they have far less than 50K and the WORST reputation in the industry, to the point that to even MENTION the "NGE" (the biggest "fail" in the history of MMO's) anywhere generates "SOE sucks" hatred. I don't want to ever see ANY hint of WoWishness in EVE or CCP. EVE has grown to where it is because of the game that it is. To try to be anything else would be to "failcascade" like SWG did. And I think our Devs are smart enough to know it. Wowishness? You do not want WOW players? The beauty of this game is that most of the folks that stayed in WOW for a long period of time, cannot handle this level of complexity. I say bring on the fodder, let the Company make the money, improve game capacity, and let's see where it goes, strap it on... PS: Don't be the bunny!
Muddy Miner	Posted - 2008.07.22 03:39:00 - [108] I'm not sure what this learning curve is you all speak of. I have only been playing a month or so and I've got the basics down. Then again I'm not a snot nosed brat either.
teh punisher Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2008.07.22 03:40:00 - [109] this is a silly question. it's like asking why car and bicycle manufacturers make different gross incomes. though they both produce a means for transportation, they satisfy fundamentally different marketplaces. quite simply, there are many more people in the world who want to shoot fireballs from their hands than shoot lasers from a spaceship.
Kyra Felann Gallente Noctis Fleet Technologies	Posted - 2008.07.22 04:13:00 - [110] Originally by: An Anarchyyt I play this game 100% adequatly with only 1 account. And I'm sure I'm not the only one. Same here. One account, one character on that account. I've been playing around 9-10 months.
Kyra Felann Gallente Noctis Fleet Technologies	Posted - 2008.07.22 04:19:00 - [111] Originally by: MotherMoon SL is a **** store by the way, honest. SL is a really cool concept. I like the fact that the whole world is player-created and that it's a sandbox, even more so than Eve. What I got tired of was the furries, the cybersex, the casinos, the spam for casinos and cyber-prostitutes and all that. I joined to build things, script things, maybe even make some money, not to dress up like a rabbit and have cybersex with someone dressed like a fox. Eve has a lot of similarities with SL, actually. But it has an actual cohesive setting, though, and no furries.
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong	Posted - 2008.07.22 04:23:00 - [112] Originally by: Pan Crastus Originally by: Thorradin Originally by: Pan Crastus EVE is the only MMO where the average player has something like 2.5 accounts. ;-) Perhaps you should go read the account stats posted in one of the CSM (i think) blog. That's based only on credit cards AFAIK and absolutely untrustworthy. Many alt accounts are paid for with GTCs even if the main account is paid with CC. it's 5% of players fool. even based on card whqat does everyone have 3 cards?
Draygo Korvan Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.07.22 05:03:00 - [113] Wow is starting to show signs that it might start losing subscription numbers. The reason is not suprising, it follows almost exactly the same model put forth by everquest. --
Mr M	Posted - 2008.07.22 05:37:00 - [114] Some people crave magical shoulder pads, some don't. EVE Tribune \| EVEgeek
Belmarduk Amarr de Prieure Four Elements	Posted - 2008.07.22 05:45:00 - [115] Originally by: CCP RyanD In addition, EVE grows every year and has since release. Unlike every other MMO in the market EVE's growth rate is actually increasing not decreasing as time passes. Here's a lot of data for the curious. Keep it up like you are, CCP and it will continue to grow. The death of an mmo is: Letting scripting (MacroMiners....) go rampant. Not keeping to your line and making too drastic bad changes - Sofar CCP has kept to its line. The gtc-price change was borderline - not a good idea from marketing - Too many changes like that can cause considerable damage to the game.. On the whole Eve is running very fine - just do something against the MacroMiners !!! Greetings Belmarduk CCP Please give us casual players a Skill-Queue !
Kuolematon Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United	Posted - 2008.07.22 05:56:00 - [116] Originally by: Anisa Schardl .. Unlike WoW, I can assume that most Eve players I run into have at least moderate intelligence and a drive that is difficult to find in other MMO's .. Ha-Ha! Not so fast there. I can say that there is ALOT of idiots in EVE. And I know what I'm talking about. "The Amarr are the tanking and ganking floating rods of ~~gold~~crap"
wah bok Caldari Copperhead Arsenal	Posted - 2008.07.22 12:06:00 - [117] Originally by: Matthew If that is the case, then you would have to change the game-style of Eve to be less like Eve, and more like WOW. Aside from my personal feelings that this is a bad idea, because I like Eve how it is, this is also a risky business strategy. You risk alienating your existing playerbase, with no guarantee of securing a new playerbase with your changes (which is likely to be harder anyway if you have a horde of former players filling the internet with how you screwed them over). While it might be a desperation move if the company is in trouble, for a viable and growing company such as CCP, that risk makes very little business sense. The real question is, does Eve need to be as big as WOW to be a successful business? On current evidence, the answer is a resounding no.[/quote SWG anyone
rValdez5987 Amarr Series of Tubes	Posted - 2008.07.22 12:16:00 - [118] Originally by: CCP RyanD Originally by: trading hub SO Here is the question for you (no judgment implied, just raising the topic) - do you want to be a group of enthusiasts, who occupy a niche within a niche, or do you want to try to beat Blizzard in their own game and CHOP into WOW profits and market share? We're in a totally different market space than WoW so we don't pay them much attention except to root for them to get bigger and bigger and make more and more people aware of the MMO concept. WoW shards are 3,500 to 5,000 PCU (Peak Concurrent Users) systems. EVE is a 45,000 PCU system. They are in the business of selling a single-player or small-group scripted theme park experience in a simulated world. We're in the business of creating a living virtual world. Our goal with EVE is to continue to grow the player community and the PCU total forever until we hit some hard cap physical limit, or we reach the point where everyone on earth with the necessary equipment, income, and interest in the genre have been reasonably well exposed to EVE and have had a chance to try it for themselves and see if they'd like to join the community. So far the engineers have been able to keep raising the capacity of the cluster as fast as the rate of new users joining the community and we don't see that changing in the near future so I expect that growth will continue as well. As far as investment value, well, lets just say that we're all pretty happy with the growth of the notional value of CCP's equity. :) If you have stock or some way of actually putting money into your company, I am in fact interested. I really see EVE as being the MMO to be a part of, and I truly feel that we are here before the real bang goes off.
Val Vympel Caldari 24th Imperial Crusade	Posted - 2008.07.22 12:31:00 - [119] Originally by: trading hub Im a stil a bit confused, why is it EVE online lagging big time in terms of population behind other MMOs. Resisting the urge to answer this in long form,here is my opinion in short... Eve is a game created by adults,for play by adults. (Something like that..reading the forums too much may render my opinion void however. My 2 ISK
Slanty McGarglefist	Posted - 2008.07.22 12:40:00 - [120] Is CCP a publicly traded company? I demand stock options! __________________________________________________ Originally by: CCP Wrangler No Doh!

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