Pages: 1 [2] 3 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
VaMei
Meafi Corp
92
|
Posted - 2012.03.12 22:46:00 -
[31] - Quote
Terminal Insanity wrote:I really dont know how to be any more obvious about this.... ... Blowing up players results in lost isk.
Blowing up a player's ship and his goods reduces his net worth and may leave him broke. While his stuff did have value before it went poof, it was not isk.
Here it is Barney style:
3 players in the game, you, me and Joe the Miner. Each of us have 100 isk. 300isk in the game.
I buy 90 isk in materials from Joe, and build a ship. Now, you have 100, I have 10, and Joe has 190. 300 isk in the game.
You buy the ship from me for 100 isk. Now, you have 0, I have 110, & Joe has 190. 300 isk in the game.
Your ship gets blown up. you get 20 isk from insurance. I still have 110 & Joe still has 190. 320 isk in the game.
While you are broke, no isk was destroyed and the total amount of isk in the game has actually increased.
Edite: I'm skipping over manufacturing & broker fees, which are actually isk sinks that remove isk from the game. |
Grumpy Owly
311
|
Posted - 2012.03.12 22:48:00 -
[32] - Quote
List of isk Faucets and Sinks (courtesy of Tippia):
Faucets:
NPC bounties NPC buy orders Mission rewards Insurance payout GM actions: Reimbursement for lost pods Character creation
Sinks:
Market taxes & fees: Broker fees, Sales tax NPC sell orders NPC station services: Repairs, Jump clone installation, Medical clone installation/upgrade/station change, Science and industry slot rental, Ship insurance NPC station office fees: Rent, Impound penalties Wardecs Sovereignty fees PI fees: Building PI structures, Import/export tax (from NPC-owned customs offices) Corp & alliance fees: Corp creation, Alliance creation, Alliance upkeep, Creating/awarding medals, Corp registry ads Agent fees: (Certain) LP store items, Locator agent services, Courier missions w/ deposits CSPA Charges Smuggling fines GM Actions: Removal of bought ISK, Removal of insurance after ship reimbursement Character deletion Bounty Hunting for CSM 7
Stop EvE Apathy |
Sasha Azala
Blood and Decay
70
|
Posted - 2012.03.12 22:49:00 -
[33] - Quote
Terminal Insanity wrote:I really dont know how to be any more obvious about this.
Blowing up players results in lost isk. You lost isk. Isk sink. Isk gone! TRUST ME - I HAVE A MONOCLE
Do you really think i would have amassed this much wealth and not know the difference? My shirt cost 800 million isk alone.
ITS AN ISK SINK
It's an isk sink for you maybe, but your isk still remains ingame you just transfer it to someone else. Exceptions are when it goes to an NPC as it's effectively removed from circulation.
Maybe when people say they're leaving the game and deleting their characters people should say delete your goods and isk and do the game a favour.
So charges for using the markets are isk sinks using isk at the LP store is also, but can't think of any others at the moment.
Even someone buying PLEX from the market, most of the isk remains ingame, just transfered to someone else.
Edit: Grumpy seems more with it than me at the moment. |
Terminal Insanity
Convex Enterprises Unprovoked Aggression
263
|
Posted - 2012.03.12 22:49:00 -
[34] - Quote
VaMei wrote:Terminal Insanity wrote:I really dont know how to be any more obvious about this.... ... Blowing up players results in lost isk. Blowing up a player's ship and his goods reduces his net worth and may leave him broke. While his stuff did have value before it went poof, it was not isk. Here it is Barney style: 3 players in the game, you, me and Joe the Miner. Each of us have 100 isk. 300isk in the game. I buy 90 isk in materials from Joe, and build a ship. Now, you have 100, I have 10, and Joe has 190. 300 isk in the game. You buy the ship from me for 100 isk. Now, you have 0, I have 110, & Joe has 190. 300 isk in the game. Your ship gets blown up. you get 20 isk from insurance. I still have 110 & Joe still has 190. 320 isk in the game. While you are broke, no isk was destroyed and the total amount of isk in the game has actually increased.
Its still lost isk. I paid for those modules and now they're gone. The modules didnt change hands My employees in highsec all mined for hours and hours to provide me with them And all of that is now removed
WHATS SO HARD TO UNDERSTAND ABOUT THIS OBVIOUS ****? Buy a monocle maybe that'll help.
Dont tell me you're too blind to see |
Sasha Azala
Blood and Decay
70
|
Posted - 2012.03.12 23:05:00 -
[35] - Quote
Terminal Insanity wrote:VaMei wrote:Terminal Insanity wrote:I really dont know how to be any more obvious about this.... ... Blowing up players results in lost isk. Blowing up a player's ship and his goods reduces his net worth and may leave him broke. While his stuff did have value before it went poof, it was not isk. Here it is Barney style: 3 players in the game, you, me and Joe the Miner. Each of us have 100 isk. 300isk in the game. I buy 90 isk in materials from Joe, and build a ship. Now, you have 100, I have 10, and Joe has 190. 300 isk in the game. You buy the ship from me for 100 isk. Now, you have 0, I have 110, & Joe has 190. 300 isk in the game. Your ship gets blown up. you get 20 isk from insurance. I still have 110 & Joe still has 190. 320 isk in the game. While you are broke, no isk was destroyed and the total amount of isk in the game has actually increased. Gotta make you understand. Its still lost isk. I paid for those modules and now they're gone. The modules didnt change hands My employees in highsec all mined for hours and hours to provide me with them And all of that is now removed WHATS SO HARD TO UNDERSTAND ABOUT THIS OBVIOUS ****? Buy a monocle maybe that'll help. Dont tell me you're too blind to see
Minerals are not ISK, they have a variable value based on the market. Minerals don't generate ISK the ISK to buy them is already ingame thanks i.e. to mission runners that get ISKrewards.
So losing goods/minerals does not effect the amount of actual ISK that's floating about ingame.
Edit: Other than the sales charges (any ISK paid to NPCs gets removed from game). Grumpy is talking about the removal of actual ISK from the game as ISK sinks. |
VaMei
Meafi Corp
92
|
Posted - 2012.03.12 23:06:00 -
[36] - Quote
Terminal Insanity wrote: Gotta make you understand.
Its still lost isk.
Last shot at it since I'm pretty sure I've been trolled...
It's lost isk to you, not the total economy. A sink removes money from the economy never to return, rather than taking it from you and giving it to someone else. |
Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
334
|
Posted - 2012.03.12 23:11:00 -
[37] - Quote
VaMei wrote:Terminal Insanity wrote: Gotta make you understand.
Its still lost isk.
Last shot at it since I'm pretty sure I've been trolled...
You have discovered a troll faucet. Troll inflation |
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
66
|
Posted - 2012.03.12 23:31:00 -
[38] - Quote
Terminal Insanity wrote:VaMei wrote:Terminal Insanity wrote:I really dont know how to be any more obvious about this.... ... Blowing up players results in lost isk. Blowing up a player's ship and his goods reduces his net worth and may leave him broke. While his stuff did have value before it went poof, it was not isk. Here it is Barney style: 3 players in the game, you, me and Joe the Miner. Each of us have 100 isk. 300isk in the game. I buy 90 isk in materials from Joe, and build a ship. Now, you have 100, I have 10, and Joe has 190. 300 isk in the game. You buy the ship from me for 100 isk. Now, you have 0, I have 110, & Joe has 190. 300 isk in the game. Your ship gets blown up. you get 20 isk from insurance. I still have 110 & Joe still has 190. 320 isk in the game. While you are broke, no isk was destroyed and the total amount of isk in the game has actually increased. Gotta make you understand. Its still lost isk. I paid for those modules and now they're gone. The modules didnt change hands My employees in highsec all mined for hours and hours to provide me with them And all of that is now removed WHATS SO HARD TO UNDERSTAND ABOUT THIS OBVIOUS ****? Buy a monocle maybe that'll help. Dont tell me you're too blind to see
We've explained it to you so many ways ISK does not disappear WHEN A SHIP GOES POOF!!!! You are a R E-T A R D if you think the ISK in the system disappeared still. It is still there after the ships BLOWN UP SHIPS ARE A MINERAL NOT A ISK SINK it is in someone elses hands just not yours. I'm done trying to educate you your think headedness means wither you are a troll or a rere-tard |
Jas Dor
Republic University Minmatar Republic
74
|
Posted - 2012.03.12 23:51:00 -
[39] - Quote
Really what's the point of talking about numbers and details if a significant portion of this board thinks blowing ships up is an isk sink. |
Soporo
23
|
Posted - 2012.03.13 00:33:00 -
[40] - Quote
Grey Azorria wrote:~20% of all isk injected into the economy is minor!?!
And yes, incursions make more isk per hour than lvl4s. Though you are correct in stating that bounties/mission rewards need hit with the nerf bat in some shape or form.
What? Yet again, you mean? LvL 4's are an easy target that have been nerfed repeatedly over time.
The only thing that needs adjusting there is the excessive, crap meta drops that get churned into minerals. Mining with guns is just screwing legitimate miners (non bots, if there are any around anymore). The bounties are fine. Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats. - H.L. Mencken |
|
Johnny Marzetti
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
284
|
Posted - 2012.03.13 01:20:00 -
[41] - Quote
Jas Dor wrote:Really what's the point of talking about numbers and details if a significant portion of this board thinks blowing ships up is an isk sink.
On the other hand their stupidity is distracting them from your real deceit, which was handwaving your patently absurd position that highsec suicide ganking is a greater source of inflation than highsec incursions in the hope of getting support for crusade against suicide gankers. I mean, do you really expect to get away with claiming that the amount of play time players have to invest in incursions changes anything about how much isk flows into the economy as a result?
A faucet is a faucet and a rate of flow is a rate of flow. X liters will overflow the bathtub whether you're hand pumping it or having it dumped in by an army of slave monkeys with buckets. |
Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
334
|
Posted - 2012.03.13 01:46:00 -
[42] - Quote
Johnny Marzetti wrote: A faucet is a faucet and a rate of flow is a rate of flow. X liters will overflow the bathtub whether you're hand pumping it or having it dumped in by an army of slave monkeys with buckets.
Quite true, trouble is no one ever knows how big the bathtub is. With the real world bathtub, when it overflows we get all sorts of nasty side effects, hyper inflation being the one most often cited.
That can't happen in quite the same way on Eve though. For one, the market is hard coded, we do not have a lot of choices when it comes to choosing another money. ISK is not based on debt, having more and more ISK in the system does not have any of the debt related side effects.
What can, and hopefully will happen, if CCP sees the light, prices will rise to the point where doing something other than shooting rats is more worthwhile. Divisions of labor and industrial specialization are the key to solving this. Sadly, few see it. |
Aggressive Nutmeg
124
|
Posted - 2012.03.13 01:58:00 -
[43] - Quote
Terminal Insanity wrote:I really dont know how to be any more obvious about this.
Blowing up players results in lost isk. You lost isk. Isk sink. Isk gone! TRUST ME - I HAVE A MONOCLE
Do you really think i would have amassed this much wealth and not know the difference? My shirt cost 800 million isk alone.
ITS AN ISK SINK You're going to be really embarrassed when the penny finally drops for you.
Also, Monocles <> Economics Degree. Never make eye contact with someone while eating a banana. |
Taiwanistan
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
192
|
Posted - 2012.03.13 02:08:00 -
[44] - Quote
DarthNefarius wrote:TheBreadMuncher wrote:Y U PEOPLE IGNORE TECH MOONS Becuase they are over owhelmingly NULL SECers using Incursions as a scape goat
damn dawg that's some greek style economics right there yo how many times must it be told that tech moon goo are bought and sold on the market, the isk exchange hands not created. One thing is for sure, you and I are not friends, buddies or pals so don't /emote me with DMC. That's DeMichael Crimson to you. |
Jas Dor
Republic University Minmatar Republic
74
|
Posted - 2012.03.13 02:33:00 -
[45] - Quote
Johnny Marzetti wrote:Jas Dor wrote:Really what's the point of talking about numbers and details if a significant portion of this board thinks blowing ships up is an isk sink. On the other hand their stupidity is distracting them from your real deceit, which was handwaving your patently absurd position that highsec suicide ganking is a greater source of inflation than highsec incursions in the hope of getting support for crusade against suicide gankers. I mean, do you really expect to get away with claiming that the amount of play time players have to invest in incursions changes anything about how much isk flows into the economy as a result? A faucet is a faucet and a rate of flow is a rate of flow. X liters will overflow the bathtub whether you're hand pumping it or having it dumped in by an army of slave monkeys with buckets.
This is also a game. If people are playing the game more hours, then they will generate more isk. One of the main incentives to run incursions is that group play sure beats the hell out of soloing level IVs. If incursions were removed from high sec people would play fewer hours. This would mean less of an isk faucet. People playing less hours would not be good for the game. By your logic the inflation problem could be resolved by permabanning half the game. While this might be effective, the effect on CCPs wallet would moot any need to discuss EvE.
What I find amazing is that when the dev who has actual hard number saying that incursions are not the source of inflation posts the PvPidiots on this board flame him for being wrong. This is the guy with the actual, honest to god, number with all the comparative and supporting data.
I'm not saying incursions are not the problem CCP is saying incursion are not the problem.
On the other hand this is a game of risk v. reward. When I undock in a combat ship its for fun. When I undock in an isk making ship I need to get paid for having my ass(ets) hanging out in space. Suicide ganking has increased the risk found in anything above station trading/station production. Greater risk requires greater reward. Systemized greater risk brings about systemic price increases. Systemic price increases are generally known as inflation. |
Ris Dnalor
Black Rebel Rifter Club
249
|
Posted - 2012.03.13 02:45:00 -
[46] - Quote
DarthNefarius wrote:Terminal Insanity wrote:Blowing ships up directly removes isk from circulation. You're literally blowing it up.
Your entire point is void (Due To Suicide Ganking) Blowing up ships removes 0 ISK from the economy the ISK was already paid for & leaks back to the industialist that made it! The ISK is still circulating. The insurance paid actually adds ISK into the ecomony
not always true.
Killing pods is an isk-sink.
FIGHT INFLATION -- KILL A POD!
Save the Miners! |
Har Harrison
Amarrian Retribution Amarr 7th Fleet
156
|
Posted - 2012.03.13 02:52:00 -
[47] - Quote
Ris Dnalor wrote:DarthNefarius wrote:Terminal Insanity wrote:Blowing ships up directly removes isk from circulation. You're literally blowing it up.
Your entire point is void (Due To Suicide Ganking) Blowing up ships removes 0 ISK from the economy the ISK was already paid for & leaks back to the industialist that made it! The ISK is still circulating. The insurance paid actually adds ISK into the ecomony not always true. Killing pods is an isk-sink. FIGHT INFLATION -- KILL A POD! How it is a sink? Installing a new clone is an ISK sink. Replacing impants could be considered an isk sink as you need to pay isk (as well as the LP) for the item. Being podded isn't. Its up to you if you replace impants and upgrade clone or not...
Fix Faction Warfare CCP!!!
Vote Hans Jagerblitzen for CSM 7 |
Taedrin
Kushan Industrial
384
|
Posted - 2012.03.13 02:55:00 -
[48] - Quote
DarthNefarius wrote:TheBreadMuncher wrote:Y U PEOPLE IGNORE TECH MOONS Becuase they are over owhelmingly NULL SECers using Incursions as a scape goat
Yeah, those NPC buy orders for technetium are sure injecting large amounts of ISK into the system... |
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
67
|
Posted - 2012.03.13 08:30:00 -
[49] - Quote
Ris Dnalor wrote:DarthNefarius wrote:Terminal Insanity wrote:Blowing ships up directly removes isk from circulation. You're literally blowing it up.
Your entire point is void (Due To Suicide Ganking) Blowing up ships removes 0 ISK from the economy the ISK was already paid for & leaks back to the industialist that made it! The ISK is still circulating. The insurance paid actually adds ISK into the ecomony not always true. Killing pods is an isk-sink. FIGHT INFLATION -- KILL A POD!
Killing PODs I guess could be considered an exception but really its the replacement of 'plants... only times I go to anywhere with bubbles you can guarrenty I got no worth while implants though but I'll give you that point anyways |
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
67
|
Posted - 2012.03.13 08:33:00 -
[50] - Quote
Taiwanistan wrote:DarthNefarius wrote:TheBreadMuncher wrote:Y U PEOPLE IGNORE TECH MOONS Becuase they are over owhelmingly NULL SECers using Incursions as a scape goat damn dawg that's some greek style economics right there yo how many times must it be told that tech moon goo are bought and sold on the market, the isk exchange hands not created.
I've always called moon goo a mineral fountain ( guess its really a catlyst but still used to build ) not a ISK fountain. It is still an a faucet just like Incursions are. |
|
Xylia Ailyx
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
1
|
Posted - 2012.03.13 09:17:00 -
[51] - Quote
i have yet to see a moon that adds isk to the system also anyone saying being podded is not a sink is delusional, it's pretty much a tax on SPlevied on those 'dumb' enough to get podded |
Mussaschi
No Wise Guy's Stellar Economy Experts
11
|
Posted - 2012.03.13 09:18:00 -
[52] - Quote
Even if there would be an inflation, that would be fine too, since it means that all people earn more, so that the ratio of income to costs stay intact.
So what we really see, are people that are not willing to adapt to a changing landscape and think that their style of playing is the only valid one, and that the others should suffer for adapting.
Some people seem to forget that eve is not "won" by the man with the most ISK in his pocket. The only valid question is, does the profession you choose pay enough to make it valid.
So what might needs some balancing is the ISK generated by some professions. Candidates for that would be in my view pirates and inventors. So please add ransom contracts, make scanning of ships in low harder, discourage gate camping and reduce other sources of low sector ore to make low and pirating more fun, and change the base material index of invented stuff to -2
|
Xylia Ailyx
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
1
|
Posted - 2012.03.13 09:20:00 -
[53] - Quote
What we really see is people watching the news for buzzwords and trying to use the same words in an EVE context without understanding how any of it works. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
5462
|
Posted - 2012.03.13 10:36:00 -
[54] - Quote
I have to say, this is the best stealth-GÇ£nerf gankingGÇ¥-thread I've seen in a long whileGǪ GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Find more rants over at Tippis' Rants. |
Espen Egak
Bootleg Vitamin
0
|
Posted - 2012.03.13 11:10:00 -
[55] - Quote
Quote: 4. Decreasing ability to arbitage items between regions due to suicide ganking.
You really must be angry at those suicide gankers .. since this is the second threat where you talk about your lag of knowledge about how to get around them. |
J3ssica Alba
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
126
|
Posted - 2012.03.13 11:12:00 -
[56] - Quote
Terminal Insanity wrote:YOU PAID 5 BIL FOR THOSE MODULES - AND NOW IT WAS DESTROYED! POOF!
You are either 1) trolling 2) need to find a school that teaches basic economics since the one you went to failed horribly For all the-áomgz incursions are an isk faucet-áwhiners CCP Soundwave : "Incursions are not a big issue in terms of isk globally."
|
Pheusia
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
5
|
Posted - 2012.03.13 11:22:00 -
[57] - Quote
Johnny Marzetti wrote:No no no, dumping baskets full of currency into the economy doesn't cause inflation, preventing people from autopiloting freighters full of loot to Jita causes inflation.
Eyjog alt spotted |
Pheusia
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
5
|
Posted - 2012.03.13 11:26:00 -
[58] - Quote
Jas Dor wrote: What I find amazing is that when the dev who has actual hard number saying that incursions are not the source of inflation posts the PvPidiots on this board flame him for being wrong. This is the guy with the actual, honest to god, numbers with all the comparative and supporting data.
I'm not saying incursions are not the problem CCP is saying incursion are not the problem...
Last year (or was it the year before?) a Dev who had actual hard numbers said that Gallente ships were fine and he couldn't see any problem with Blasters.
Soundwave was looking at the same data we are; his interpretation of those data differed.
|
J3ssica Alba
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
126
|
Posted - 2012.03.13 11:28:00 -
[59] - Quote
Pheusia wrote: Soundwave was looking at the same data we are; his interpretation of those data differed.
He's the dev, you aren't. His interpretation holds more clout. For all the-áomgz incursions are an isk faucet-áwhiners CCP Soundwave : "Incursions are not a big issue in terms of isk globally."
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
5465
|
Posted - 2012.03.13 11:30:00 -
[60] - Quote
J3ssica Alba wrote:He's the dev, you aren't. His interpretation holds more clout. He's a software designer, not an economistGǪ
Then again, and he didn't actually say that incursions were not a source of inflation. So there's always that speaking in his favour. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Find more rants over at Tippis' Rants. |
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 [2] 3 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |