LOLno. Totally false. Even if it were true, wormhole dwelling is far more risky than Incursions ever thought of being.

-Liang

Unless the data just changed overnight I doubt that highly.

CCP Diagoras published the data on it, actually.

-Liang

Who's fail now, Cipher?

By the way, all those ships you named? They all still take months to fly correctly. Months.

We're talking about retaining new players, who can't earn ISK as fast as it is being devalued.

Ever salvage a level one mission?

******* genius!

Meh, that was the only thing I had an issue with. Overall he's a semi decent (though extremely trollish) poaster. Eve is retaining new players and has amazing growth. Just for you: http://liangnuren.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/chart_1.png

-Liang

Meh, that was the only thing I had an issue with. Overall he's a semi decent (though extremely trollish) poaster. Eve is retaining new players and has amazing growth. Just for you: http://liangnuren.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/chart_1.png

-Liang

CCP Diagoras published the data on it, actually.

-Liang

Sorry Liang, this thread really isn't a debate over whether Eve has positive or negative overall retention. It's about what is driving away those new players who wind up leaving after their free trial, being counted toward negative retention.

Therefore I'm not so sure it was a headshot, either.

You are throwing around some pretty serious verbiage by claiming that Eve is "hemorrhaging" new players. That verbiage is not even remotely consistent with observable facts - which in facts would say that we're keeping more new players than ever before.

-Liang

Second of all, when the issue was brought up, I addressed the reasons new players would leave the game.

First of all, I did not "throw around the verbiage" (verbage?).

You addressed what you feel are the reasons new players would leave the game. Unless you care to give us a direct from CCP quote on what you said.

First of all, I did not "throw around the verbiage" (verbage?).

Second of all, when the issue was brought up, I addressed the reasons new players would leave the game.

The rate of growth does not imply that there is anywhere near reasonable retention.

Acknowledging growth is fine, but addressing issues that can improve growth is never bad.

So, sure, you have your observable facts which have nothing to do with the subject of this thread other than a superficial correlation.

I don't know what the numbers are in terms of new players signing up for accounts and then not converting, etc. but I would love to see them. Can you please share the data that led you to your assertion above?

I started playing less than a month ago, signed up after my 2nd day on trial, I'm wishing I would have started playing this game sooner. I've always heard that this game was nothing but elitists and hardcore PvP, so I've stayed away for the past 8 or so years.

I'm not a PvPer, although I do enjoy a friendly duel now and then. I enjoy the atmosphere, exploring, and mining. I'm not worried about ISK/hour, I'm just enjoying the game, and having a great time.

I've tried to get friends from other MMOs to sign up with me, but they all say the same thing, EVE has a bad reputation, steep learning curve, and they'll never catch up with the veteran players so they won't even try it.

CCP please do something positive about this.

You have the numbers, you know we're losing a small number of new players on a daily basis.
The number of players being lost to EvE outnumber the new players signing-up (who then also become ex-players).

What is the primary reason new players to EvE are leaving ?
Some of it has to do with EvE being difficult to get into, but we know this has been addressed as best as possible with the new player training lessons.

What else is causing the slow but constant haemorrhage of new players, CCP ?

No, I did not say EvE is dying - it's just not growing as well as it could be. Big difference there.

I'm sure the numbers will look healthier starting around 28th of this month when Japanese players finally get to play on Tranquility, but this will be a short growth-spurt and then we're back to where we are now.

I love EvE and the people in it. I would love to see it grow to 60, 70, 80K players a night.

Constructive comments welcome.
Asinine comments - you know where the door is and that it leads nowhere.

Three words, the other players. If EvE was absent of it's players new players would play a lot longer. The problem though is the EvE playerbase are paranoid, juvenile neckbeards that troll everyone else because they feel that they are so special that everyone else in the game are out to get them. Then there are the goons. So remove all the players and EvE will grow exponentially.

More and more people (Americans in particular) are losing their attention span and are becoming somewhat zombified. They can hardly drive cars any more. The new thing now in changing lane on the highway is to hit the brakes and stop traffic. It's the refresh rates of the TVs, the constant "depend on google for everything", ear buds and media at all times (most of todays 20 somethings were those kids you saw in the backs of the SUV each with their own TV with cartoons blaring at them), and finally the prozac and bad diet.

They come to EvE, there is no constant instant gratification, some initiative and level of decision-making is required to keep this game going, on the part of the player, whether they PVP or PVe.

They lose interest and leave. This is the soundbyte nation where everything is based on a 10 second attention span. This is the nation where "Angry Birds" is popular.

This game takes a living human brain with a supply of oxygenated blood. You don't see that much. Sure there are no undead shuffling around looking for brains to eat, but you have everything but that, they are still zombies.

I would love to see the actual statistics of who is coming and going, and what country they are from. I am betting that the "engineering student from Poland" is more likely to stick around than the "Art Major from California".

You're pretty fail TBH. You can incursion in a logi, which is cheap and quick to get into.

'

So you're saying the reasons I gave are never a reason a new player would leave because...

CCP didn't come out and say so?

Critical thinking FTW.

[Edit:

We can talk semantics all you want. I addressed reasons new players would leave. It's that simple. Are there other reasons new players might leave? Sure. I bet there are. Were the reasons on my list comprehensive? No. Was it my opinion? Yes. Does that change the fact that this thread isn't about whether or not Eve is growing, but rather what the cause of new players leaving after their trial may be? Not for one red second.

That's precisely what I addressed.]

Verbiage. Neat. Thanks Tippia.

What else is causing the slow but constant haemorrhage of new players, CCP ?

Perhaps they see that pvp has more to do with having expensive booster alts that you dual box off grid rather than piloting skill.

I'm sure not many new players like the idea that they have to create alt dual box alts. It turns a game into a chore.

But don't take my word for it ask new players what they think about continuing in a game where that is required.

The biggest turn off for new players is the way the help channel closes and they are left with nothing, no one talks in local any more, no or very few people will offer them help, there is no recruitment channel dedicated to the new player just a general recruitment channel. No instructions on how to join other channels and if they do the reception by others in those channels are lets say less than a welcome one.

The NPE just stops,the end, many just quit at this point, either driven out by the leet brigade who kill for the lutz or so confused by all the differing 'advise' they just cant take it all in and sort the good from the bad, (they wouldn't know the good or bad anyway they haven't played long enough).

No, only those who stay in NPC starter corps because of the immunity would be forced into crap NPC corps after a certain period. If you set yourself goals and work towards them, you are rewarded with certificates and finally with an option to move to a better, non-starter, non-crap NPC corp - with advantages over the starter corp, with like-minded people. I think these people could enjoy an improved certificate system, give something more than just gaining more ISK and opening new gear via SP, while doing the same old grind. Titles, ranks, medals, whatever that symbolizes their progress, and maybe some concrete advantages and rewards that come with them.

Also, why on earth would using a corp website an issue :S

Putting questions that way primes the pump pretty heavily. Its like asking whether America is richer than Canada and then promptly proclaiming that Canada is a third world nation with the inevitable result.

What you're claiming isn't really necessary - not in small gang combat, not in fleets, and not anywhere. Its not necessary except that you feel its necessary for you. Hell man, you may as well cry about people requiring scouting alts or tackle alts or .. well, anything.

-Liang