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Istvaan Shogaatsu Guiding Hand Social Club	Posted - 2008.06.22 22:56:00 - [31] Originally by: Aeo IV sigh Why Terrian artifact CCP? Why not a Jovian one? why did you have to make the Terrians super beings? Terran stuff has been in the Eve database for ages. There's word of tech 3 being terran stuff that's uncovered and reverse-engineered, this isn't exactly a surprise ;p
Daelin Blackleaf Naqam	Posted - 2008.06.22 23:05:00 - [32] Originally by: Sapphrine Any information in the book as to what happened politically with Midular going awol and shakor disappearing or is that being played out in game now only? Basically the Republic has been falling apart. With the lack of faith in democracy it's been easy for Amarr (or specifically Karsoth) to bribe both people in the Republic's Assembly and government staff. Midular is now returning to try to see new election through (cos some people just don't get the fact that democracy doesn't work for the Minmatar). She was at one point in the care of the Elders via Kaiten (sp) and Shakor after an attempt on her life was made. As for Shakor he will likely continue working with the Elders in their "sanctuaries" in deadspace as he has little interest in the sham that is the parliament. Originally by: Galen Darksmith What I want to know is if the novel made [Heth's] whole rise to power actual make sense from a public standpoint. There was. Conditions in the State have become far worse than most of us thought. The gap between the elite and proletariat has grown to a ridiculous level and the States economy is falling apart while those supposed to be tending to it are filling their wallets, renting expensive Gallente hookers, living in palatial estates, etc. This left little challenge for the Broker to install Heth as a hero to these people. There is of course a lot more detail to it than that and it's covered well. An interesting point is that the Kaalakiota CEO was threatened with ruin by Heth, but left alive constrained to her estate, in exchange for the signing of a contract to hand it all over to him. She wants vengeance, as of course does Otro's sister who has pretty much retired from corporate circles. Wish the Amarrian public had gotten a quarter as much attention, but it seems TonyG prefers to write about Caldarians, it would have been nice to get a window into how the commoners and Holders were taking all this beyond a few words from the heirs. The Matri and Gallentean point of view is handled a little better, though not directly, due to the governments worrying about public reaction and giving it mention in the book. Sig removed, inappropriate content. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Daelin Blackleaf Naqam	Posted - 2008.06.22 23:18:00 - [33] Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu Originally by: Aeo IV sigh Why Terrian artifact CCP? Why not a Jovian one? why did you have to make the Terrians super beings? Terran stuff has been in the Eve database for ages. There's word of tech 3 being terran stuff that's uncovered and reverse-engineered, this isn't exactly a surprise ;p I figured for some time the tech levels were going to be: t1: Standard t2: Empire advanced t3: Talocan, Sleeper, etc t4: Jovian t5: Old Terran Tech Based on the point that the Jove are likely as old as the lost civilizations but survived where they did not, and the point that the Terrans old ** could probably kick the crap out of the Jove. I get the picture of an entire set of civilizations rising after the fall of the EVE gate and having since fallen, with the current empires being second generation so to speak. As an aside the Terran superweapon turns a ships own defenses against it, the shields deflect the hull basically crushing what they are supposed to protect. This means by the time this tech is seen a way to remove this vulnerability from our older technology may have been found. There is a hint at the very end of the book of something darker, a Jovian Eidolon battered beyond belief escaping through** Point Genesis (the center of the EVE gate) and then being destroyed by energies from the gate itself. Should the Terrans be on the other side of that gate still with technology thirty-thousand years more advanced than Jamyl's reverse engineered weapon then ôreturn of the dark light from the heart of the motherö is going to be a dark day indeed. Sig removed, inappropriate content. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
soldieroffortune 258	Posted - 2008.06.22 23:35:00 - [34] Edited by: soldieroffortune 258 on 22/06/2008 23:40:40 Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu Originally by: Aeo IV sigh Why Terrian artifact CCP? Why not a Jovian one? why did you have to make the Terrians super beings? Terran stuff has been in the Eve database for ages. There's word of tech 3 being terran stuff that's uncovered and reverse-engineered, this isn't exactly a surprise ;p oi, could you link me to the site that has this t3 equipment plz, i would love to see it edit: seriously, im not being sarcastic, i would just love to see this, that would have advantages and disadvantages though, think about it, if t3 can do anything like what it did in the trailer, that would alter the balance of the game MUCH more
Segge Bolled Dirty Sexy Pilots	Posted - 2008.06.22 23:52:00 - [35] Of course, what they're not telling us is that at the end of the book Harry Potter dies ...
Svetlana Scarlet Caldari Independent Navy Reserve The Fourth District	Posted - 2008.06.22 23:54:00 - [36] I still don't see any explanation of why no one in the Caldari State has said anything about Heth's rise being particularly odd. The problem hasn't been that it happened necessarily, but that no one seems to think it is at all unusual for a forklift driver to become dictator of the State in less than a month. And if the whole reason was to force Gariushi's hand, what possible motivation would Ishukone have for backing him after the Malkalen incident goes down, seeing as how forcing Gariushi's hand is pretty much an impossibility after he's dead.... -- CAPT Svetlana Scarlet CAIN Chief of Diplomatic Staff
Thorradin State Protectorate	Posted - 2008.06.23 00:01:00 - [37] Originally by: Daelin Blackleaf Caldarians Don't ever type that again. It's so grammatically (and in the context of EVE's PF, historically) wrong that it's going to be painful reading the book if it's used heavily in it.
Thorradin State Protectorate	Posted - 2008.06.23 00:04:00 - [38] Originally by: Daelin Blackleaf That I may be completely off and the old Terran could well be t3 but where does that place the lost civilizations stuff? Named T2 at best? I don't see why lost civilizations would have to be more advanced than even current T2. If those empires were so advanced, you'd think some evidence to support it would come forth. Besides, the day T3 comes into EVE is likely the day faction and officer mods crash through the pricing floor.
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong	Posted - 2008.06.23 01:09:00 - [39] Originally by: Thorradin Originally by: Daelin Blackleaf That I may be completely off and the old Terran could well be t3 but where does that place the lost civilizations stuff? Named T2 at best? I don't see why lost civilizations would have to be more advanced than even current T2. If those empires were so advanced, you'd think some evidence to support it would come forth. Besides, the day T3 comes into EVE is likely the day faction and officer mods crash through the pricing floor. tech 3 will be weaker than tech 2 but ebtter when overheated we know this allready people, watch the fanfest videos.
Daelin Blackleaf Naqam	Posted - 2008.06.23 01:14:00 - [40] Originally by: Svetlana Scarlet I still don't see any explanation of why no one in the Caldari State has said anything about Heth's rise being particularly odd. The problem hasn't been that it happened necessarily, but that no one seems to think it is at all unusual for a forklift driver to become dictator of the State in less than a month. Because 98% of the people in the State are said forklift drivers, paper shufflers, and box movers. They get paid in company money that they can't spend on anything but company goods, they can't get, the prospects they were told about are a lie, and their leaders are fat and incompetent. Of course some people think this whole "revolution" is a bad idea, but you don't argue with the pitchfork wielding mob. Leaders have had similar sudden rises to power in our world, all it takes is for the people to completely lose hope and then for one man to offer it to them. As for killing Otro I think the Broker's time is nearly up and he simply, for the first time ever, lost his temper. His clones don't last and as the "virus" progresses he has less time to live in each body. There will come a time when he simply can't come back and that time is close. After Otro's death he actively pushes Heth onwards to war in an effort to vindictively crush what the deceased CEO held dear. I imagine right now he's after Mila or Malaetu in a final effort to get his hands on that cure. Sig removed, inappropriate content. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Victor Vision Central Intelligence Service	Posted - 2008.06.23 01:21:00 - [41] Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu Originally by: Aeo IV sigh Why Terrian artifact CCP? Why not a Jovian one? why did you have to make the Terrians super beings? Terran stuff has been in the Eve database for ages. There's word of tech 3 being terran stuff that's uncovered and reverse-engineered, this isn't exactly a surprise ;p Bah Istvaan, nothing ever is a surprise to you hehehe EVE War I-The Beginning - EVE History Wiki
Protheroe	Posted - 2008.06.23 02:05:00 - [42] Originally by: Daelin Blackleaf As an aside the Terran superweapon turns a ships own defenses against it, the shields deflect the hull basically crushing what they are supposed to protect. This means by the time this tech is seen a way to remove this vulnerability from our older technology may have been found. The strange matter idea was better in my opinion. EGSE Share/Bond Brokerage
Tyr Vaantau Synthetic Frontiers	Posted - 2008.06.23 02:11:00 - [43] Originally by: Svetlana Scarlet I still don't see any explanation of why no one in the Caldari State has said anything about Heth's rise being particularly odd. The problem hasn't been that it happened necessarily, but that no one seems to think it is at all unusual for a forklift driver to become dictator of the State in less than a month. Well, it was in the book anyway. Maybe someone'll explain it to you here. ------
Pliskkenn Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2008.06.23 03:18:00 - [44] Awesome topic is awesome. I'll still read the book when I buy it. ---
Ferin Eineneu	Posted - 2008.06.23 03:28:00 - [45] Telepathy? Why would CCP do this.
Thorradin State Protectorate	Posted - 2008.06.23 03:44:00 - [46] Originally by: MotherMoon Originally by: Thorradin Originally by: Daelin Blackleaf That I may be completely off and the old Terran could well be t3 but where does that place the lost civilizations stuff? Named T2 at best? I don't see why lost civilizations would have to be more advanced than even current T2. If those empires were so advanced, you'd think some evidence to support it would come forth. Besides, the day T3 comes into EVE is likely the day faction and officer mods crash through the pricing floor. tech 3 will be weaker than tech 2 but ebtter when overheated we know this allready people, watch the fanfest videos. Ideas change over time. If you can't think of any fleet-killing examples, please lemme know.
Daelin Blackleaf Naqam	Posted - 2008.06.23 04:19:00 - [47] Originally by: Ferin Eineneu Telepathy? Why would CCP do this. I thought the same thing when I watched the news detailing a dictators ascension in the State, the return and acceptance of a dead heir, and the appearance of the Elders. At the risk of sounding like a fanboi I'm going to wait to see how this plays out before passing judgment on it. Sig removed, inappropriate content. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Elsebeth Rhiannon Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2008.06.23 09:37:00 - [48] I am still uncomfortable about a lot of stuff, mostly because I as a player I am not certain if I know what my character would know. And I do not know that I do not know every detail she would, I mean I do not know if she knows particular details or not. Say Elders in deadspace pockets? Does the book say if this is general knowledge in the EVE world? Or are they some hidden mysterious guys only Shakor and Middy and whonot know of? (If it is general knowledge, why is it not general? If not, it sounds like a weird plotline to me. Why not just use the established NPCs as awesome leaders, without some no-one-knows-of backup. I think Shakor and Midular both very well had the makings of a hero on their own right.) And for now, I am in denial about the telepathy. Srsly. Maybe if we don't look at it, it goes away. -- Help us defend the Republic; join Gradient today.
Haverloth 1st Praetorian Guard Vigilia Valeria	Posted - 2008.06.23 11:24:00 - [49] Edited by: Haverloth on 23/06/2008 11:24:51 Thanks for the post OP and everyone else. I'm going to get the book, as I love EVE, but this does nothing to disavow my notion that this book is all about Epic and Grand Things with Casts of Thousands that Pay Little Attention To What Has Gone Before (and Jamyl Sarum waxing her wrath mightly with the Artefacts of Ancients). I am especially disappointed that she did indeed clone herself, and that all the Heirs just went along with it... I'll get the book after I'm finished with Matter, Iain M. Banks' latest. Now if they could have gotten him to write an EVE-novel... ____________________ http://1pg.vigilia-valeria.org http://www.amarr-empire.net
Tyr Vaantau Synthetic Frontiers	Posted - 2008.06.23 13:23:00 - [50] Originally by: Haverloth Edited by: Haverloth on 23/06/2008 11:24:51 and that all the Heirs just went along with it... They didn't at first, they needed persuasion. ------
Rodj Blake PIE Inc.	Posted - 2008.06.23 13:31:00 - [51] Originally by: Tyr Vaantau Originally by: Haverloth Edited by: Haverloth on 23/06/2008 11:24:51 and that all the Heirs just went along with it... They didn't at first, they needed persuasion. But we still have no idea why. What's their motivation? Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong	Posted - 2008.06.23 14:35:00 - [52] Originally by: Thorradin Originally by: MotherMoon Originally by: Thorradin Originally by: Daelin Blackleaf That I may be completely off and the old Terran could well be t3 but where does that place the lost civilizations stuff? Named T2 at best? I don't see why lost civilizations would have to be more advanced than even current T2. If those empires were so advanced, you'd think some evidence to support it would come forth. Besides, the day T3 comes into EVE is likely the day faction and officer mods crash through the pricing floor. tech 3 will be weaker than tech 2 but ebtter when overheated we know this allready people, watch the fanfest videos. Ideas change over time. If you can't think of any fleet-killing examples, please lemme know. if I can't? I don't see how weaker epiupment that can be used better for 2 mins is fleet breaking. will be fun dual tanking with a tech 2 and . or mixxing in a few tech 3 guns to overheat.
RaTTuS BIG	Posted - 2008.06.23 14:48:00 - [53] Fdacepalm -- BIG Lottery, BIG Deal, InEve,
Galen Darksmith Caldari Independent Navy Reserve The Fourth District	Posted - 2008.06.23 14:51:00 - [54] Originally by: Daelin Blackleaf Originally by: Svetlana Scarlet I still don't see any explanation of why no one in the Caldari State has said anything about Heth's rise being particularly odd. The problem hasn't been that it happened necessarily, but that no one seems to think it is at all unusual for a forklift driver to become dictator of the State in less than a month. Because 98% of the people in the State are said forklift drivers, paper shufflers, and box movers. They get paid in company money that they can't spend on anything but company goods, they can't get, the prospects they were told about are a lie, and their leaders are fat and incompetent. Great, so the Caldari State is, in secret, the Gallente Federation. In other news, the Republic have taken all the Starkmanir as slaves. The State was born on efficiency. You don't do your job properly, you get the boot in favor of someone who can. This came naturally to a people who have always had to struggle for survival, it was their defining trait, just as the Republic's background as former slaves was theirs. Suddenly retconning the State into an abysmal failure so that CCP can have it's "Fuhrer" stand-in and make lame references to WW2 (D-Day? "Sleeping giant"?! For the love of...) basically shows that consistency is not a goal when it comes to the PF, and PF will be completely changed on a whim to suit the current plot of the day.
Daelin Blackleaf Naqam	Posted - 2008.06.23 15:26:00 - [55] Edited by: Daelin Blackleaf on 23/06/2008 15:26:04 Originally by: Elsebeth Rhiannon I am still uncomfortable about a lot of stuff, mostly because I as a player I am not certain if I know what my character would know. For the Matari side this isn't too difficult, most of it is public knowledge other than the details. The people don't know the extent of what has been going on behind their backs yet, the "Sanctuaries" etc. Nor do they know much of the Elders except as myth and legend. But they do know the Elders have "returned" and that force had to come from somewhere. Of course, with the number of people involved and the element of surprise lost the rest of the truth is probably seeping out by now. I wonder if any will point out that had that money not been used to build machines of war then the Republic would not have faltered in the first place. Starvation, the economy, unemployment, emigration, crime, all these issues can be laid squarely at the feet of the Elders and Maeletu Shakor. Even an Amarrian could tell you that had the money for those ships been better used the Republic would not have been the joke that it was. If you need to know if something specific is mentioned as common knowledge feel free to ask, I'll answer as best I can. Sig removed, inappropriate content. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Daelin Blackleaf Naqam	Posted - 2008.06.23 15:26:00 - [56] Originally by: Haverloth Edited by: Haverloth on 23/06/2008 11:24:51 Thanks for the post OP and everyone else. I'm going to get the book, as I love EVE, but this does nothing to disavow my notion that this book is all about Epic and Grand Things with Casts of Thousands that Pay Little Attention To What Has Gone Before (and Jamyl Sarum waxing her wrath mightly with the Artefacts of Ancients). I am especially disappointed that she did indeed clone herself, and that all the Heirs just went along with it... Epic... partly, but not in the way you think. Most of the characters are trapped events beyond their control, and as powerful as the controlling forces are there is a desperation to them. Jamyl Sarum has a war in her mind and the only thing the two can agree upon is the importance of the throne and Falek Grange, she seems almost vulnerable and lost at the moment. Heth has had things spiral out of control, he intended to die at the Armor Forge and now that the Broker seems done with him he may well falter and fall. The Broker's days are numbered and his desperation is obvious. President Foiritan is left in a pure reactionary position having a responsibility to protect the people. Midular has seen her Republic fall with nothing she could do. Shakor is the odd one out, with few forces standing against him as few knew what he was up to until he made his move. As for the Heirs there are several reasons they went along with it. > Artico Kor-Azor demonstrated to them that they are ruled by the people not the other way around and the people support Jamyl Sarum. > They don't want to die. These days they are all capsuleers but denied the use of clones, they can see real immortality but they are denied it. > Being on the throne hasn't exactly been a good place to be lately. Damned if you win the succession, damned if you don't. > Tradition changes. As mentioned they are all now capsuleers, they have had capsuleers represent them, they have had non-Amarrians represent them, they've even had a non-Amarrian race raised to the status of Heirs (although since the Khanid are not considered pure Amarrians I'm a little confused on this one). Basically while the core Scriptures are largely unchanging the interpretation of them fits the times. Nowhere is it written that the flesh of the Emperor cannot be cloned. More interestingly as far as I can see nowhere is it written that pure Amarrians are in any way held in special regard by God other than as his messengers, there's no hint of superiority mentally, physically, or spiritually. It really does seem that the interpretation of the Scriptures was indeed changed to suit certain powers, and the Cult of Tetrimon may indeed have been correct about certain Apocrypha having been removed from the original. Sig removed, inappropriate content. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Gaius Kador PIE Inc.	Posted - 2008.06.23 15:28:00 - [57] How come I never thought of RPing a telepathic guy... ----------------------------------------------
Daelin Blackleaf Naqam	Posted - 2008.06.23 15:36:00 - [58] Edited by: Daelin Blackleaf on 23/06/2008 15:37:04 Originally by: Galen Darksmith Great, so the Caldari State is, in secret, the Gallente Federation. You can't stand against the will of a desperate people, not once one man has united them. The State had forgotten what it was, it was becoming the Federation, too much focus amongst the Elite on personal wealth, prestige, and power. I think Heth made a speech in the news much to this effect. Only CEO Gariushi recalled that the Corporations are supposed to serve the people that make them, not those who lead them. This trend of individualism has now been reversed and even if Heth is removed from power the new executives will remember why he got into power in the first place and how those before them fell. Originally by: Galen Darksmith The State was born on efficiency. You don't do your job properly, you get the boot in favor of someone who can. I think you addressed your own issue. Sig removed, inappropriate content. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Elsebeth Rhiannon Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2008.06.23 15:48:00 - [59] Originally by: Daelin Blackleaf The people don't know the extent of what has been going on behind their backs yet, the "Sanctuaries" etc. Nor do they know much of the Elders except as myth and legend. Thanks, this helps a lot. Quote: But they do know the Elders have "returned" This is the bit I struggle most with. Without reading the book, it seems very weak in detail. What do we know about this, exactly? What does it mean that the "Elders have returned", to the people who now know that they have? What do the "myths and legends" say the Elders are like? Who has returned exactly and from where - that is, according to our "general knowledge"? Do we think the dead Elders have somehow been resurrected, or does that refer more to Tradition being substituted for Modern Government, or what? What do we know about these "the Elders"? Do they have names? Clans? Why do they have a claim to the leadership of the tribes? Are they descendants to some ancient leaders, or do they have some Voluval Mark and special training and stuff that makes them so? Who the hell do we, who apparently are on the streets celebrating their return, think they are? That is what I don't get. I cannot make myself play "The Elders have returned YAY! Death to the Amarr!" without knowing what that means. Me and my character both just do not work that way. OTOH I cannot really question it IC when I don't know what the general knowledge IC is. Quote: Of course, with the number of people involved and the element of surprise lost the rest of the truth is probably seeping out by now. Yea, and how I hope they'd do a newspiece or a chronicle that would explain all this stuff, rather than having to find out this way. :P Quote: I wonder if any will point out that had that money not been used to build machines of war then the Republic would not have faltered in the first place. Starvation, the economy, unemployment, emigration, crime, all these issues can be laid squarely at the feet of the Elders and Maeletu Shakor. Even an Amarrian could tell you that had the money for those ships been better used the Republic would not have been the joke that it was. All in a good time. -- Help us defend the Republic; join Gradient today.
Galen Darksmith Caldari Independent Navy Reserve The Fourth District	Posted - 2008.06.23 15:54:00 - [60] Originally by: Daelin Blackleaf Edited by: Daelin Blackleaf on 23/06/2008 15:37:04 Originally by: Galen Darksmith Great, so the Caldari State is, in secret, the Gallente Federation. You can't stand against the will of a desperate people, not once one man has united them. The State had forgotten what it was, it was becoming the Federation, too much focus amongst the Elite on personal wealth, prestige, and power. I think Heth made a speech in the news much to this effect. That's my point. Suddenly, we find out that the State is this huge corrupt failure. No reason for it to have become such, especially when it's constantly having to lock economical horns against the Gallente. It just is, because CCP dictated it. CCP does run the universe, but it interrupts the flow of a story when you subvert the flavor of an entire people just to drum up a war. Also, the State has never been about "the will of the people." That's a Gallente concept. The Caldari have always been about the rule of the mental elite supported by the rest of society. Tossing this out the window pretty much tosses out the whole flavor of the Caldari out as well. Might as well make the Amarr atheists. Originally by: Daelin Blackleaf Originally by: Galen Darksmith The State was born on efficiency. You don't do your job properly, you get the boot in favor of someone who can. I think you addressed your own issue. Heth isn't efficient. The man's sacrificed who knows how many lives over a lump of rock. That's not efficient. That's not practical. The Caldari have always been about "the greater good," the continuation of their people. How does recapturing Caldari Prime help achieve that end? Simply put: it doesn't. Heth just wants to kill Gallente. He's worse than any corrupt CEO could have been, at least the CEOs didn't start a war that will likely end up devastating the already small Caldari population.

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