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Is FW what you thought it would be?

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ChangWufei State Protectorate	Posted - 2008.06.24 17:36:00 - [1] Not trying to get at the devs here because I can't really fault the initial release of FW. It's not exactly how I thought it would be though and this is down to the players I believe. I have been trying to find pvp I enjoy in EVE for a long time. I have found pirating to involve a lot of camping which I find a bit boring, not to mention the aggression timers :). In empire wars it can be much the same and a lot of time can be wasted with war targets just hiding in stations etc. I went to 0.0 space and spent a lot of time either camping gates, again boring, or roaming around in smaller groups which can be fun. However you always end up flying around for a long time looking for action, running from big fleets and hitting ones you outnumber by a lot. I was hoping that factional warfare would bring some mechanism which could be used to get almost instant action. I figured it would be all about capturing the systems so there would basically be a front line and the fighting would always be there. This would mean you could log in, fly to the front line and get stuck in. However it has ended up just like 0.0 space with people camping gates or flying around all over the place in fleets trying to find eachother or running away until they can get more people etc. I'm not sure if I want something that nowone else does or if others wanted it to be like this and so maybe it needs changing somehow to bring it more to this way of working. So let me know what you think.
Apoctasy The Python Cartel	Posted - 2008.06.24 17:39:00 - [2] FW is exactly what I thought it would be. Incompetent blobs standing around gates trying to figure out their overview settings while firing on friendlies and generally not getting anywhere. Combat consists of outblobbing the other blob.
Rakshasa Taisab Sane Industries Inc. Ursa Stellar Initiative	Posted - 2008.06.24 17:40:00 - [3] Originally by: Apoctasy Incompetent blobs standing around gates trying to figure out their overview settings while firing on friendlies and generally not getting anywhere. Sounds like a lot of fun, exactly as I thought it would be. ^_^
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2008.06.24 17:41:00 - [4] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 24/06/2008 17:42:46 I think its pretty fun, but I predict that with time, the blobs will be less and less. People will group in smaller groups, looking to fight the enemy on their own without massive blobbing. Why? Because of the lag, the waiting for others, the waiting for the FC, the one-click targeting ship after ship until you either die or win. No skill involved, except for the fleet commanders. --- Its dead, Jim.
Danton Marcellus Nebula Rasa Holdings	Posted - 2008.06.24 17:42:00 - [5] Edited by: Danton Marcellus on 24/06/2008 17:42:32 Yes and no I don't want to contribute to improving it since it's beyond repair going full scale galactic war with no escalations and possibility of containment and worthwhile objectives. They've basically brought battlegrounds to EVE and I prefer to leave it in its hollow state as to not lose any pilots to it. Should/would/could have, HAVE you chav! Also Known As
Deverian Tarik Core Combat and Industry The Core Collective	Posted - 2008.06.24 17:44:00 - [6] Was fun the first couple of days, then descended into the low-sec pvp norm of gatecamps and nanofaggery.
Gabrialle Sunspot Requisitions Worlds End Consortium	Posted - 2008.06.24 17:51:00 - [7] not what i was hoping for at all but it is exactly what i thought it would be what i was hoping for was a full warmachine that would work from miners/indies giving there ore/weapons/ships to the militia in exchange for lp and standing. the militia have NPC industrial personnel to turn the ore into componnts and ships then the militia pvpers buy the supplies from the militia limited by rank and using there own LP which can be gained by running missions for the militia against NPC pilots like standard operations what i thought it would be is an isk sink and thats exactly what it is not eve a creative one
ChangWufei State Protectorate	Posted - 2008.06.24 17:52:00 - [8] I just want some way I can sign on, go fight some people for a bit and sign off again. Not sit around waiting or fly around for ages with nothing happening except ganks :(.
Rells Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2008.06.24 18:23:00 - [9] Faction warfare is what I thought it would be. You eliminate the pvpers of eve that know what they are doing for the most part (the alliance players) and then you introduce low budget pvp to a huge base of untrained pilots and remove warp disruption bubbles, bombs and other things not allowed in lowsec and you get a farce. Allow bubbles and bombs in lowsec would make it ... interesting. [;)] But then the temptation to fire a bomb into one of these uncontrolled blobs of light shis would be too much to pass up and id got to -10 in a half a second
Napro	Posted - 2008.06.24 18:27:00 - [10] I thought it was at first but.. thinking about it more... not really What did they really do? Give us little red and blue icons and tell us to fight. The biggest disappointment for me are the missions. I thought they would be the single greatest thing ever mixing PvP and PvE. Turned out to be a flop and everyone says to avoid them. Thinking about turning in my pilot's license. I'll be sure to post a thread where you guys can pick my stuff up at should I quit

Spineker State Protectorate	Posted - 2008.06.24 18:28:00 - [11] It is a great deal of fun. Far better then 0.0 ever was which was blobs and gate camping. Plus the newness of it all is fun also with new people learning about PVP and such. 0.0 became half scam half bull**** ego trips I hate corps and hate alliances even more. Elite few living off the other members and most of the time they are just numbers not members. Yeah there are a couple of small ones before everyone starts whining but mostly NO. 0.0 because a joke FW is far more interesting and far more open ended. Those who think there is no skill being used obviously need to leave Jita and stop pretending like they actually pvp.
Rells Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2008.06.24 18:28:00 - [12] Originally by: Napro I thought it was at first but.. thinking about it more... not really What did they really do? Give us little red and blue icons and tell us to fight. The biggest disappointment for me are the missions. I thought they would be the single greatest thing ever mixing PvP and PvE. Turned out to be a flop and everyone says to avoid them. Thinking about turning in my pilot's license. I'll be sure to post a thread where you guys can pick my stuff up at should I quit Untrained pvp sucks. Get some training and experience real pvp for a while and yo uwill change your mind. Being in a disorganized riot is not the same as a well functioning, coordinated, fleet.
Spineker State Protectorate	Posted - 2008.06.24 18:30:00 - [13] Originally by: Napro I thought it was at first but.. thinking about it more... not really What did they really do? Give us little red and blue icons and tell us to fight. The biggest disappointment for me are the missions. I thought they would be the single greatest thing ever mixing PvP and PvE. Turned out to be a flop and everyone says to avoid them. Thinking about turning in my pilot's license. I'll be sure to post a thread where you guys can pick my stuff up at should I quit The missions are absolutely stupid. 14 jumps including enemy highsec many times and no reward for doing it. They need to totally revamp the missions and delete any reference to the current ones they are giving out in Caldari anyway.
Havohej The Defias Brotherhood DEFI4NT	Posted - 2008.06.24 18:31:00 - [14] Originally by: Napro What did they really do? Give us little red and blue icons and tell us to fight. Right. Like I've been saying for the last few days since my 14-day forum ban expired - they took you by the hand and gave you what the rest of EVE already had, in a form that you have no hope of controlling: they gave you an alliance and a wardec. Only it's not a real alliance, so not even the best of you have any say over what happens beyond going and blobbing each other with Drakes and Myrmidons. I have this to offer you: [Drake, lol nano drake] Overdrive Injector System II Overdrive Injector System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Warp Disruptor II Large Shield Extender II Medium Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Cap Booster 200 Target Painter II Target Painter II 10MN MicroWarpdrive II 'Arbalest' Heavy Missile Launcher, Thunderbolt Heavy Missile 'Arbalest' Heavy Missile Launcher, Thunderbolt Heavy Missile 'Arbalest' Heavy Missile Launcher, Thunderbolt Heavy Missile 'Arbalest' Heavy Missile Launcher, Thunderbolt Heavy Missile 'Arbalest' Heavy Missile Launcher, Thunderbolt Heavy Missile 'Arbalest' Heavy Missile Launcher, Thunderbolt Heavy Missile Drone Link Augmentor I Salvager I Polycarbon Engine Housing I Polycarbon Engine Housing I Polycarbon Engine Housing I Warrior II x5 Originally by: CCP Explorer You can still steal their stuff.
Napro	Posted - 2008.06.24 18:32:00 - [15] Originally by: Rells Originally by: Napro I thought it was at first but.. thinking about it more... not really What did they really do? Give us little red and blue icons and tell us to fight. The biggest disappointment for me are the missions. I thought they would be the single greatest thing ever mixing PvP and PvE. Turned out to be a flop and everyone says to avoid them. Thinking about turning in my pilot's license. I'll be sure to post a thread where you guys can pick my stuff up at should I quit Untrained pvp sucks. Get some training and experience real pvp for a while and yo uwill change your mind. Being in a disorganized riot is not the same as a well functioning, coordinated, fleet. I'm sure it is but I'm a 2 month old player with less than 3 million skill points (i cant even fly a tech 2 ship) But I'm going to start keeping my eye on the recruitment channels and see if I can find an alliance that wont keep me guarding gates 5 hours a day, thanks for the tip
Havohej The Defias Brotherhood DEFI4NT	Posted - 2008.06.24 18:32:00 - [16] Originally by: Spineker It is a great deal of fun. Far better then 0.0 ever was which was blobs and gate camping. Because Caldari militia doesn't campe gates with 200-man Caracal and Drake blobs. Originally by: CCP Explorer You can still steal their stuff.
Spineker State Protectorate	Posted - 2008.06.24 18:32:00 - [17] Originally by: Rells Originally by: Napro I thought it was at first but.. thinking about it more... not really What did they really do? Give us little red and blue icons and tell us to fight. The biggest disappointment for me are the missions. I thought they would be the single greatest thing ever mixing PvP and PvE. Turned out to be a flop and everyone says to avoid them. Thinking about turning in my pilot's license. I'll be sure to post a thread where you guys can pick my stuff up at should I quit Untrained pvp sucks. Get some training and experience real pvp for a while and yo uwill change your mind. Being in a disorganized riot is not the same as a well functioning, coordinated, fleet. Untrained PVP? LMAO you haven't even played i suppose. Napro does just fine and is always out there doing something.
Havohej The Defias Brotherhood DEFI4NT	Posted - 2008.06.24 18:35:00 - [18] Originally by: Napro I'm sure it is but I'm a 2 month old player with less than 3 million skill points (i cant even fly a tech 2 ship) I take exception to this statement, Napro. To be honest, I think agony empire (particularly rells) toots their own horn too much but he IS right in the fact that organized PvP is more fulfilling than just joining a noob blob and camping a gate, giggling. But you don't NEED 20M SP to kill things in an organized gang. Look at this picture... worth a thousand words. Originally by: CCP Explorer You can still steal their stuff.
Spineker State Protectorate	Posted - 2008.06.24 18:35:00 - [19] Originally by: Havohej Originally by: Spineker It is a great deal of fun. Far better then 0.0 ever was which was blobs and gate camping. Because Caldari militia doesn't campe gates with 200-man Caracal and Drake blobs. No the fleets I am in generally are 50 or less so I don't join the Boromer 100+ fleets. I don't suicide in highsec like tards and I prefer an ******* for FC instead of diplomat. We move in the fleets I am in generally don't sit on one gate unless we are pinned in. So you are wrong and I have not seen a Caldari 200 man fleet at any time. I think Boromer has broke 140 I don't know I leave them when they are that big.
Napro	Posted - 2008.06.24 18:39:00 - [20] Originally by: Havohej Originally by: Napro What did they really do? Give us little red and blue icons and tell us to fight. Right. Like I've been saying for the last few days since my 14-day forum ban expired - they took you by the hand and gave you what the rest of EVE already had, in a form that you have no hope of controlling: they gave you an alliance and a wardec. Only it's not a real alliance, so not even the best of you have any say over what happens beyond going and blobbing each other with Drakes and Myrmidons. I have this to offer you: [Drake, lol nano drake] Overdrive Injector System II Overdrive Injector System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Warp Disruptor II Large Shield Extender II Medium Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Cap Booster 200 Target Painter II Target Painter II 10MN MicroWarpdrive II 'Arbalest' Heavy Missile Launcher, Thunderbolt Heavy Missile 'Arbalest' Heavy Missile Launcher, Thunderbolt Heavy Missile 'Arbalest' Heavy Missile Launcher, Thunderbolt Heavy Missile 'Arbalest' Heavy Missile Launcher, Thunderbolt Heavy Missile 'Arbalest' Heavy Missile Launcher, Thunderbolt Heavy Missile 'Arbalest' Heavy Missile Launcher, Thunderbolt Heavy Missile Drone Link Augmentor I Salvager I Polycarbon Engine Housing I Polycarbon Engine Housing I Polycarbon Engine Housing I Warrior II x5 I don't think CCP took us by the hand.... more like shoved us all into a death pit. If they had taken us by the hand we'd have something like NPC fleet leaders (which I would have loved, btw). Anyway, Like I said before, the alliances all have SP requirements unless I want to join a carebear mining alliance and haul **** all day (which I don't). Thanks for the drake setup (I guess thats for me) but Im about 200 Million isk short on being able to afford it

Jeremy Paxman Special Doc	Posted - 2008.06.24 18:39:00 - [21] I was longing and hoping for a new age of Eve Leeeroy Jenkins's to emerge in pursuit of valiant faction goals. Instead we got the pvp equivalent of a poorly made apricot blancmange. -------------------- In Soviet Cornwall, cows tip you.
Rells Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2008.06.24 18:43:00 - [22] Originally by: Spineker Those who think there is no skill being used obviously need to leave Jita and stop pretending like they actually pvp. I will remember that. Its been a long time since I was called a carebear.
Kel Nissa	Posted - 2008.06.24 18:44:00 - [23] No FW is not what i expected. Its more or less a joke. As someone mentured already: The only thing they gave us are faction alliances with auto-wardec against the other faction alliance. But without the ability to control the alliance. There is no sense inside FW. No goal. Nothing. Its just blob vs blob thats all. I would love to see front missions where im able to join. Without the requirement to fly 15 jumps to my agent. Just flying to the front-war-mission which is 2 jumps next to me. And it must be absolutly easy to find this missions. Its okay that the mission objectives must be scanned initially but afterwards the whole FW must be forced to join this missions. This should be the only place where FW is allowed. It should be impossible for non-fw players to join this fighting grounds which will stop the current pvp gankers. It would be also nice to find heavily fortified POSes without any ship limitations joining the missions. Or maybe another try: Look at the FW banner on eve-online.com. Whatch the teasers. Look at the trailer. And afterwards tell me: where can you find the seen fragments inside FW? How about a normal station as battle target? I seen a carrier driving against one which might imply that FW would also contain fights against normal stations. Where is the map being visible the whole time? The pilots should be forced to see a tactical map whenever they fly around. Currently we fly in minmatar, jump to amarr and afterwards maybe we chose to fly through gallente space. And no one cares because its meaningless. There is no front line between the factions - its just a small text written on the top left of the screen - wow thats really impressive. How about a starmap as additional mini-overview? It should highlight the guarded space and it should also display enemy ships inside the controlled space like the fog of war minimap inside every existing strategy game. Its nearly impossible to add tactic fights between the factions, when the normal pilot has no chance to figure out whats going on! just some thoughts summary: current fw is just annoying
Rells Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2008.06.24 18:45:00 - [24] Originally by: Napro Anyway, Like I said before, the alliances all have SP requirements unless I want to join a carebear mining alliance and haul **** all day (which I don't). Thanks for the drake setup (I guess thats for me) but Im about 200 Million isk short on being able to afford it Not all of them.
Napro	Posted - 2008.06.24 18:46:00 - [25] Originally by: Rells Originally by: Napro Anyway, Like I said before, the alliances all have SP requirements unless I want to join a carebear mining alliance and haul **** all day (which I don't). Thanks for the drake setup (I guess thats for me) but Im about 200 Million isk short on being able to afford it Not all of them. If that's an invitation, I humbly accept
Artthana Kinda'Shujaa	Posted - 2008.06.24 18:54:00 - [26] Originally by: Napro Where do I sign up? Originally by: Rells If you are interested in agony you should come check out our sie by clicking on the link in my sig.
Artthana Kinda'Shujaa	Posted - 2008.06.24 18:54:00 - [27] Edited by: Artthana on 24/06/2008 18:54:35 double post.
Havohej The Defias Brotherhood DEFI4NT	Posted - 2008.06.24 19:00:00 - [28] Originally by: Napro I still don't understand why they just can't put a Jita 2 right next to Jita and move some traffic over Jita isn't the market hub. Jita 4 - Moon 4 station (That Caldari Navy one) is the market hub. You could make a system called Jita 2 and put it one jump out of Jita, and Jita 4 - Moon 4 would STILL be the market hub. It's not CCP that made it a market hub, it's the players and the player-driven economy that made Jita a market hub. Like the desusig says: Jita doesn't lag because the server is inadequate, it lags because people keep going until it lags. Originally by: CCP Explorer You can still steal their stuff.
Rells Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2008.06.24 19:01:00 - [29] Originally by: Havohej Originally by: Napro I still don't understand why they just can't put a Jita 2 right next to Jita and move some traffic over Jita isn't the market hub. Jita 4 - Moon 4 station (That Caldari Navy one) is the market hub. You could make a system called Jita 2 and put it one jump out of Jita, and Jita 4 - Moon 4 would STILL be the market hub. It's not CCP that made it a market hub, it's the players and the player-driven economy that made Jita a market hub. Like the desusig says: Jita doesn't lag because the server is inadequate, it lags because people keep going until it lags. There are feasible solutions to Jita but thats a topic for another thread. Lets keep this one on topic.
Khazeel	Posted - 2008.06.24 19:06:00 - [30] Hi there. I'm new to EVE and I enjoy it immensely... especially the fact that PvP has real consequences. That said, while I am enjoying faction wars I think it could have been done much better. -First of all I wish there had been real "fronts" ... like two prongs of valid assault into a factions territory, with no territory capture outside of these fronts. IE, the Min/Amarr war would have two zones to capture in.. maybe the gallente have one front they can attack Amarr in. Then the same setup with Caldari/Gallente. Not sure if that made sense, but I don't really feel like I am fighting a war. More like random strikes here and there. -Missions would then need to take you to these fronts and not a zillion jumps into a far away reach of space you don't actually give a crap about. - There should be less control points, but made harder to take. This is probably a controversial idea, but when one/two beginner frigates can take areas, it just makes for a whack a mole type conflict and the teams with the most players has a significant advantage. If there were less areas, but more heavily defended then you could have some more epic meaningful battles IMO. Right now as Amarr I feel like I am playing the whack a mole game with stubs for arms since if we drive off someone from a capture point there are 2-3 others at the other points already. -Territory claimed by a faction should get the protection of that factions navy, and that protection should build over time to make it harder to take. Just some random thoughts. I have found it entertaining, but not exactly epic fun. I think just making an actual front line would be neat and get me more into it. Just my .02.

Bast's Cleric 24th Imperial Reserves	Posted - 2008.06.24 19:09:00 - [31] I have some issues with the Missions Offered in FW. Level 1, Quality 3 Agent, and he wants me to go Kill a Battle cruiser, Protected by 6 Frigates and a Cruiser. Doesn't Sound like a Level 1 Mission to me. On top of having to Dodge War targets I'm also Having to Try and Kill Stuff Far Byond the Friage that My 2 weke old self can Fly. Well Done CCP, Well Done for making it impossible for New players to get into PVP, or even PVP related PVE. -
ChangWufei State Protectorate	Posted - 2008.06.24 19:10:00 - [32] Edited by: ChangWufei on 24/06/2008 19:13:43 Originally by: Rells Originally by: Havohej Originally by: Napro I still don't understand why they just can't put a Jita 2 right next to Jita and move some traffic over Jita isn't the market hub. Jita 4 - Moon 4 station (That Caldari Navy one) is the market hub. You could make a system called Jita 2 and put it one jump out of Jita, and Jita 4 - Moon 4 would STILL be the market hub. It's not CCP that made it a market hub, it's the players and the player-driven economy that made Jita a market hub. Like the desusig says: Jita doesn't lag because the server is inadequate, it lags because people keep going until it lags. There are feasible solutions to Jita but thats a topic for another thread. Lets keep this one on topic. Was the topic factional warfare or recruitment for your alliance? ;) ..seriously though, I like a lot of the ideas Khazeel mentions. Some sort of front line seems to be the key.
Havohej The Defias Brotherhood DEFI4NT	Posted - 2008.06.24 19:14:00 - [33] Originally by: Bast's Cleric I have some issues with the Missions Offered in FW. Level 1, Quality 3 Agent, and he wants me to go Kill a Battle cruiser, Protected by 6 Frigates and a Cruiser. Doesn't Sound like a Level 1 Mission to me. On top of having to Dodge War targets I'm also Having to Try and Kill Stuff Far Byond the Friage that My 2 weke old self can Fly. Well Done CCP, Well Done for making it impossible for New players to get into PVP, or even PVP related PVE. I don't even know what to say to this post. One of the main points behind FW was to get people to work together. EVE is not necessarily a 1-player game. This isn't WoW where every quest you get (up until the first time you get sent into an instance) can be done all by yourself. Go out and make friends, you social butterfly, you. Originally by: CCP Explorer You can still steal their stuff.
Wendat Huron Stellar Solutions	Posted - 2008.06.24 19:17:00 - [34] Only two things are certain on an EVE forum thread Jita & nano. These forums are FUBAR, upgrade this decade!
Bast's Cleric 24th Imperial Reserves	Posted - 2008.06.24 19:20:00 - [35] Originally by: Havohej Originally by: Bast's Cleric I have some issues with the Missions Offered in FW. Level 1, Quality 3 Agent, and he wants me to go Kill a Battle cruiser, Protected by 6 Frigates and a Cruiser. Doesn't Sound like a Level 1 Mission to me. On top of having to Dodge War targets I'm also Having to Try and Kill Stuff Far Byond the Friage that My 2 weke old self can Fly. Well Done CCP, Well Done for making it impossible for New players to get into PVP, or even PVP related PVE. I don't even know what to say to this post. One of the main points behind FW was to get people to work together. EVE is not necessarily a 1-player game. This isn't WoW where every quest you get (up until the first time you get sent into an instance) can be done all by yourself. Go out and make friends, you social butterfly, you. lol, Well I tried Asking for Help in the Militia Channels, But everyone else was to Busy Stroking their Own Egos about how Big each other E-peens are and Sitting around doing nothing to help. so I figured well it's a level 1, how hard can it be. -
Havohej The Defias Brotherhood DEFI4NT	Posted - 2008.06.24 19:22:00 - [36] Originally by: CCP Explorer You can still steal their stuff.
Ulstan State Protectorate	Posted - 2008.06.24 19:44:00 - [37] It's actually a lot more fun than I thought it would be. Gangs of people who don't know what they are doing flying around in whatever willing to fight whoever is just fun! Though I'm curious to see what kind of effects system occupancy will have down the road. Hopefully it's nothing too drastic, as the amarr are totally getting rolled by Minmatar.
Spineker State Protectorate	Posted - 2008.06.24 20:15:00 - [38] Its hell of a lot more fun than 0.0 ganking tard fleets or blobs in large alliance. Spend hours and hours and hours and get to fire once if that. Or crash a node. People act like you need to be elite to be in 0.0 as if it takes some special skills. It doesn't it is not much different then FW except in FW you can move to safe home territory and carry on with other interest which you don't have the luxury of in 0.0 and rarely or they that organized either. Just because someone is in 0.0 space doesn't make them any better then a blob pilot in 0.8 space. Anyone trying to sell that is full of it. I have pvp'ed in almost all aspects from huge alliance to low-sec gank squads and FW is the best thing to happen to this game for many people.
Rooker Lysian Enterprises	Posted - 2008.06.24 20:37:00 - [39] I joined yesterday finally and it was exactly what I was hoping for. X'd up for 3 different fleets, including one of the LOLLERCOASTER fleets started from militia chat in Nourv, curbstomped six or seven (or more?) Gallente fleets, pewed at a carrier that went boom... Best fun I've had since the pre-nanoeverything 0.0 days. My only regret is that some dude in a sniping Apoc blew up and scared away all the nanonubs before I got there. I could have left the Rapier in the hangar and flown something with MOARRRRR ALPHA. Also, ROFL at smacking Rells. For you State people, think Boromor, then multiply by three for knowing his ****. -- Let Us Avoid Systems Via Autopilot
Adunh Slavy Ammatar Trade Syndicate The ENTITY.	Posted - 2008.06.24 20:40:00 - [40] Edited by: Adunh Slavy on 24/06/2008 20:41:19 FW is fun for the most part, there's always something to do, and I'll return to it one our little alliance war is over. FW of course suffers from the current Eve issues, blobs lag, nano, log off, etc, etc. These are not FW problems, so much as they manifest them selves in a new way with FW. (My obligitory "jump gates suck" thouhgts go here.) There are a couple of FW specific things that could be improved. For one, missions are just too far away, scaning for complexes is more intresting. FW doesn't really need agents and missions in the mostly traditional sense in which they've been implemented, they are redundant. For the most part, it is what I thought it would be, as described from the blogs. The Real Space Initiative - V5 (Forum Link)

Kurlieu The Ore House	Posted - 2008.06.24 20:45:00 - [41] It's pretty much what I thought it would be, but quite a bit less than I hoped it would be.
Furb Killer USC Militia	Posted - 2008.06.24 20:59:00 - [42] In beginning i liked FW, but getting bit disapointed. Fighting solo or small fleet vs caldari is impossible. When i attacked every caldari i saw with my thrasher i got finally killed by 2 interceptors, a stealth bomber and a caracal on me. I managed to kill an executioner that didnt really realise i didnt had point on him. But besides that, every single opponent ran. I tried to attack 2 caracals at same time, they both ran from a single destroyer. And then you got the fleets/blobs, done by both sides. It usually takes arround an hour before a fleet leaves high sec (which is why i usually only join fleets that allready have left). And then FCs usually are even after the fleet have been for an hour in high sec still kinda slow. If people dont allign, leave them behind, then they learn. (and dont worry about newbs who dont know how to, it is all explained to them, and their cruisers/frigs shouldnt have problems with keeping up with fleet even when they allign too late). And when there finally is an enemy fleet, neither of the fleets will attack unless one is much larger, due to grid loading.
Rooker Lysian Enterprises	Posted - 2008.06.24 21:45:00 - [43] Originally by: Furb Killer Then stay away from Tama, Old Man Star and the pipe between them. That seems to be the front line where the blobs stress test the node servers all day long. There are smaller roving gangs all over Black Rise/Placid/Essence, etc. -- Let Us Avoid Systems Via Autopilot
Hannobaal Federal Defence Union	Posted - 2008.06.24 21:53:00 - [44] Edited by: Hannobaal on 24/06/2008 21:53:43 From playing on the test server before it come I thought Faction Warfare would be a more interesting but less organized and more spread out and decentralized version of major alliance warfare in 0.0. That's exactly how it has turned out. I just hop into a ship and go roaming on my own. It's been a lot of fun, although I haven't had too much time to play the last week or so.
Hannobaal Federal Defence Union	Posted - 2008.06.24 21:58:00 - [45] Originally by: Bast's Cleric I have some issues with the Missions Offered in FW. Level 1, Quality 3 Agent, and he wants me to go Kill a Battle cruiser, Protected by 6 Frigates and a Cruiser. Doesn't Sound like a Level 1 Mission to me. On top of having to Dodge War targets I'm also Having to Try and Kill Stuff Far Byond the Friage that My 2 weke old self can Fly. Well Done CCP, Well Done for making it impossible for New players to get into PVP, or even PVP related PVE. Don't do missions solo. I found it nearly impossible when I tried, and I have 21 mil sp. They're clearly not meant to be done by a single player. Do complexes or join in fleet with your fellow militia and do whatever they do. If you absolutely have to do missions, get a group of people together to do them with.
DanFraser OCForums Holdings	Posted - 2008.06.24 22:41:00 - [46] Ive found that FW has been implemented very well. The problem is the players. A large majority of players, certainly in the Amarr militia are quite frankly afk idiots. How else can I struggle to give away free ships (reason being people won't be afraid to lose their ship) and actually get smacked for it? I'm even told to shut up advertising so they can spend the next three hours collecting seven x's for a little gang... How stupid can people be? That stupid apparently. Fine then, implode the Amarr Militia. CCP, you failed to account for your players.
Kelli Flay	Posted - 2008.06.24 22:52:00 - [47] Edited by: Kelli Flay on 24/06/2008 22:54:13 Originally by: Bast's Cleric I have some issues with the Missions Offered in FW. Level 1, Quality 3 Agent, and he wants me to go Kill a Battle cruiser, Protected by 6 Frigates and a Cruiser. Doesn't Sound like a Level 1 Mission to me. On top of having to Dodge War targets I'm also Having to Try and Kill Stuff Far Byond the Friage that My 2 weke old self can Fly. Well Done CCP, Well Done for making it impossible for New players to get into PVP, or even PVP related PVE. I think CCP wants you to do these missions as a group instead of just being a more dangerous version of normal agent missions you can do in Empire for isk. IE: They don't want individuals farming them all day long for rewards. I think this is one instance where they should have thrown a bone to soloers though. Even if people wanted to farm them, chances are, they would get ganked a lot if they went into hostile territory alone to shoot NPCs. That is more risk than anything you get in regular Empire missions unless you are a lvl 4 low sec mission runner. Solo content in a MMO is a controversial thing but often it is a good thing. Companies need to wake up and realize a lot of people play MMOs not to always play in a group but to play against other real players. You can of course do both in EvE but you really have to work hard to do the latter. My last MMO before EvE was Dark age of Camelot and while the pvp in that game had it's share of problems {many of which mirrored EvE's} the developers recognized many enjoyed playing solo and put solo content in pvp for those players in the form of kill missions and solo type classes. /shrug
Khazeel	Posted - 2008.06.24 23:40:00 - [48] Originally by: DanFraser Ive found that FW has been implemented very well. The problem is the players. A large majority of players, certainly in the Amarr militia are quite frankly afk idiots. How else can I struggle to give away free ships (reason being people won't be afraid to lose their ship) and actually get smacked for it? I'm even told to shut up advertising so they can spend the next three hours collecting seven x's for a little gang... How stupid can people be? That stupid apparently. Fine then, implode the Amarr Militia. CCP, you failed to account for your players. Well I have one of your punishers you were handing out Dan and I must say I certainly appreciated it. There are so many spies and alts in the militia that I wouldn't take the talk there personally. I do wonder how many of those ships actually make it to our front lines in the first place. My guess is that a lot of them actually end up in the hands of the enemy as people ferry them back to the mim. Honestly, I went on fleets made from the militia channel three times and twice they were just alts that led us to traps. The third time we did ok but after an hour the FC left and the whole fleet sort of fell apart. You really should get a medal for your intent, but maybe you should look into supplying the reputable FW corps instead. Since I have joined a corp FW has been much more successful and fun. I no longer need to work with the militia channel which I am convinced is at least half spies/etc. I am actually looking for other reputable FCs that I can fly with when my corp mates are not around. I don't really care how competent they are so long as they don't purposely butthump me. Don't give up on us Dan just maybe be a bit more selective in who ya help out. I know lots of legitimate Amarr warriors are happy for your help.
MrChook Heretic Militia	Posted - 2008.06.25 01:36:00 - [49] I'm having a blast with FW. The Minmatar militia channel is complete chaos and some of the fleets are complete failures but it's still great fun. Some of the questions people ask have me spluttering in my tea but generally they get sensible answers from the more patient experienced players. I don't think I have really enjoyed the game quite this much for a long time. There is only a couple of negative things from my perspective so far. One of these is the failure of the Amarr militia to get organised. We do outnumber them but not by insurmountable odds (about 3:2 at the moment although it looks like their numbers dropped yesterday, which is kinda sad). The other negative was some clown last night that started calling me a loot thief in militia chat. Technically he was correct, I was taking loot from yellow cans but I had found the plex and had it 1/3 completed before these guys showed up and helped to complete it. At the end I just started looting and salvaging, as you do, ignoring the colour of the cans since, you know, it's a team effort. Was totally gob smacked that anyone would complain about that at all. Probably the kind of person that would also come to the forum and whine about people scanning down and salvaging his wrecks in high sec missions (btw, if you read this whoever that was, all you had to do was ask in local and I wouldn't have touched "your" wrecks) Originally by: Khazeel -First of all I wish there had been real "fronts" ... like two prongs of valid assault into a factions territory, with no territory capture outside of these fronts. IE, the Min/Amarr war would have two zones to capture in.. maybe the gallente have one front they can attack Amarr in. Then the same setup with Caldari/Gallente. Not sure if that made sense, but I don't really feel like I am fighting a war. More like random strikes here and there. I've had the same thought on occasion. Kinda more like Onslaught in Unreal Tournament where you need to capture nodes in sequence to make the enemy core vulnerable. I can't decide if that woud make things better or worse. On the plus side it would concentrate the effort into a smaller number of systems thus causing more conflict. On the negative side it would concentrate the effort into a smaller number of systems thus causing more blobs and lag
Jmanis Catharg State Protectorate	Posted - 2008.06.25 01:45:00 - [50] To be honest, I was hoping to be able to collect player-tags for popping ships. Nothing too complicated to strain the DB like personalized ones i.e. "Jmanis Catharg's Second Lieutenant" tag, just "Caldari Militia Second Lieutenant" tags would've been nice. No NPC buy orders for them (as they'd be too farmable). Maybe even have standing-only rewards to your militia for handing in the tags to certain agents. Purely eye-candy.

Selene Dukat	Posted - 2008.06.25 03:41:00 - [51] To those who are strongly critical of FW, may I ask a question? What harm does it do? It seems like something that is great at least for newer players. If it doesn't fit your pvp style, it doesn't detract from any of the null sec pvp that was previously available does it? It seems to only add something to Eve without taking away anything else in the process - why is that bad?
Jmanis Catharg State Protectorate	Posted - 2008.06.25 03:44:00 - [52] Quote: It seems to only add something to Eve without taking away anything else in the process - why is that bad? The only thing it takes away is 0.0 alliance pets who decide they want something more exciting.
Cassius Rex Legio Cybernetica	Posted - 2008.06.25 04:38:00 - [53] It's kind of funny watching Eve vets (of both the pvp and carebear varieties) cry over FW. It's been said before, EA isn't for you experianced people. It's for new players like me. I've been playing eve for a year and all of my pvp and nullsec experiance wouldn't fill a thimble. what kept me out of 0.0 are all the horror stories you hear about mandatory ops and drama. I'm a grown man with kids, If I want mandatory work and drama I'd just remarry my ex-wife... With FW I can jump into a cruiser with a fit that doesn't break the bank, go out and pewpew, and be done with it when I feel like it. And so so close to my home station that it doesn't take me forever to get back. It's causal mode. Without FW, I doubt I'd have continued to play eve very much longer, to many high barriers for casual players like me.
Solid Trust Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2008.06.25 05:34:00 - [54] Quote: Is FW what you thought it would be? It is better then I thought it would be. Great job CCP. This tops Warp To Zero and the WCS Nerf combined. It has brought a whole new dynamic to the game which I felt was much needed.
Jeckes	Posted - 2008.06.25 05:57:00 - [55] Originally by: Deverian Tarik Was fun the first couple of days, then descended into the low-sec pvp norm of gatecamps and nanofaggery. QFT IBTL
Herateis	Posted - 2008.06.25 06:02:00 - [56] Originally by: Havohej Originally by: Napro I'm sure it is but I'm a 2 month old player with less than 3 million skill points (i cant even fly a tech 2 ship) I take exception to this statement, Napro. To be honest, I think agony empire (particularly rells) toots their own horn too much but he IS right in the fact that organized PvP is more fulfilling than just joining a noob blob and camping a gate, giggling. But you don't NEED 20M SP to kill things in an organized gang. Look at this picture... worth a thousand words. And this is the truth. EW T1 frigates properly fitted and used during a gang or fleet fight are devastating assets. As such, they need to be killed, and T1 fighter frigates are good for that job. So no use saying that T2 ships and anything other than a frigate is necessary for PVP. There's just no call for that kind if ignorant sweeping statement.
Shakuul Infinitus Sapientia New Eden Research	Posted - 2008.06.25 06:05:00 - [57] No FW is a bunch of nanowhines I wasn't expecting that although I'm not surprised.
Thirzarr	Posted - 2008.06.25 06:09:00 - [58] I cont sign up without leaving my friends in my corp or signing them bunch of carebears up along with me. :(
qanatas Tribal Liberation Force	Posted - 2008.06.25 06:42:00 - [59] The first few days were a lot of fun, with nice battles and squirmishes in a lot of systems. But lately you can hardly find a wartarget. The capping of systems is very boring. Initially it's nice for the faction standing boost (the title means nothing), but I cant imagine people will keep doing this a few weeks from now, when everybody is general (or whatever the highest rank is).
Jeckes	Posted - 2008.06.25 07:12:00 - [60] Edited by: Jeckes on 25/06/2008 07:14:42 Originally by: Havohej Originally by: Bast's Cleric I have some issues with the Missions Offered in FW. Level 1, Quality 3 Agent, and he wants me to go Kill a Battle cruiser, Protected by 6 Frigates and a Cruiser. Doesn't Sound like a Level 1 Mission to me. On top of having to Dodge War targets I'm also Having to Try and Kill Stuff Far Byond the Friage that My 2 weke old self can Fly. Well Done CCP, Well Done for making it impossible for New players to get into PVP, or even PVP related PVE. I don't even know what to say to this post. One of the main points behind FW was to get people to work together. EVE is not necessarily a 1-player game. This isn't WoW where every quest you get (up until the first time you get sent into an instance) can be done all by yourself. Go out and make friends, you social butterfly, you. DIdn't you know. MMO's largely attract antisocialites who's sole purpose is to play a game without interacting with others. WoW taught people how to do that, and people bring that lesson to Eve. MMO's are called MMOs because its MEANT to be a shared experience between multiplayers. instead, we have people wanting to solopwnmobile everything in sight, in what could more accurately be called Massively Single Player Online Game + aim/MSN chat interface inserted. I blame people who play the game like tards imho. Additionally, these antisocialites feel so entitled to anything, that they think a corp either does or does not deserve them, that they are better than a corp, and more powerful alone than with an actual support structure of other players, and they simply deign to grace a corp with their presence until they get angry at having to pay 10% tax just so the corp can barely keep on its feet, and run off in a huff. MMOs are great, but they attract all the antisocials the world has to offer into one cesspool of uncooperativeness and Rtard rodeo.

Herateis	Posted - 2008.06.25 07:19:00 - [61] Originally by: Adunh Slavy Edited by: Adunh Slavy on 24/06/2008 20:41:19 FW is fun for the most part, there's always something to do, and I'll return to it one our little alliance war is over. FW of course suffers from the current Eve issues, blobs lag, nano, log off, etc, etc. These are not FW problems, so much as they manifest them selves in a new way with FW. (My obligitory "jump gates suck" thouhgts go here.) There are a couple of FW specific things that could be improved. For one, missions are just too far away, scaning for complexes is more intresting. FW doesn't really need agents and missions in the mostly traditional sense in which they've been implemented, they are redundant. For the most part, it is what I thought it would be, as described from the blogs. Agreed with this ones sentiments.
Jeckes	Posted - 2008.06.25 07:24:00 - [62] Originally by: Kelli Flay Edited by: Kelli Flay on 24/06/2008 22:54:13 Originally by: Bast's Cleric I have some issues with the Missions Offered in FW. Level 1, Quality 3 Agent, and he wants me to go Kill a Battle cruiser, Protected by 6 Frigates and a Cruiser. Doesn't Sound like a Level 1 Mission to me. On top of having to Dodge War targets I'm also Having to Try and Kill Stuff Far Byond the Friage that My 2 weke old self can Fly. Well Done CCP, Well Done for making it impossible for New players to get into PVP, or even PVP related PVE. I think CCP wants you to do these missions as a group instead of just being a more dangerous version of normal agent missions you can do in Empire for isk. IE: They don't want individuals farming them all day long for rewards. I think this is one instance where they should have thrown a bone to soloers though. Even if people wanted to farm them, chances are, they would get ganked a lot if they went into hostile territory alone to shoot NPCs. That is more risk than anything you get in regular Empire missions unless you are a lvl 4 low sec mission runner. Solo content in a MMO is a controversial thing but often it is a good thing. Companies need to wake up and realize a lot of people play MMOs not to always play in a group but to play against other real players. You can of course do both in EvE but you really have to work hard to do the latter. My last MMO before EvE was Dark age of Camelot and while the pvp in that game had it's share of problems {many of which mirrored EvE's} the developers recognized many enjoyed playing solo and put solo content in pvp for those players in the form of kill missions and solo type classes. /shrug Solo content in an MMo is an inherent flaw in an MMO. Its stupid and redundant, and merely creates an opposing spectrum to actually playing together. What else is the point of an MMO, if not actually interacting with others either with market, mining, or combat PVP? solo in an MMO = go buy a console.
Franga NQX Innovations	Posted - 2008.06.25 07:25:00 - [63] Love it so far. Unfortunately I've joined some of the major blobs. I don't think I'll be doing that again. The fun comes, imvho, the small roaming gangs with the smaller quicker ships. Normal low-sec baiting kind of stuff, but the best bit about it is there is no gate-gun aggro and none of the sec-status hit. Originally by: Rachel Vend ... with 100% reliability in most cases ...
Herateis	Posted - 2008.06.25 07:28:00 - [64] Originally by: Khazeel Originally by: DanFraser Ive found that FW has been implemented very well. The problem is the players. A large majority of players, certainly in the Amarr militia are quite frankly afk idiots. How else can I struggle to give away free ships (reason being people won't be afraid to lose their ship) and actually get smacked for it? I'm even told to shut up advertising so they can spend the next three hours collecting seven x's for a little gang... How stupid can people be? That stupid apparently. Fine then, implode the Amarr Militia. CCP, you failed to account for your players. Well I have one of your punishers you were handing out Dan and I must say I certainly appreciated it. There are so many spies and alts in the militia that I wouldn't take the talk there personally. I do wonder how many of those ships actually make it to our front lines in the first place. My guess is that a lot of them actually end up in the hands of the enemy as people ferry them back to the mim. Honestly, I went on fleets made from the militia channel three times and twice they were just alts that led us to traps. The third time we did ok but after an hour the FC left and the whole fleet sort of fell apart. You really should get a medal for your intent, but maybe you should look into supplying the reputable FW corps instead. Since I have joined a corp FW has been much more successful and fun. I no longer need to work with the militia channel which I am convinced is at least half spies/etc. I am actually looking for other reputable FCs that I can fly with when my corp mates are not around. I don't really care how competent they are so long as they don't purposely butthump me. Don't give up on us Dan just maybe be a bit more selective in who ya help out. I know lots of legitimate Amarr warriors are happy for your help. I think this is the best lesson all of us could learn from. We need to join reputable FW corps, and stop getting into random groups with strangers who are as likely to be brain dead morons as to be spies.
Krets	Posted - 2008.06.25 07:53:00 - [65] Edited by: Krets on 25/06/2008 07:54:24 Originally by: DanFraser Ive found that FW has been implemented very well. The problem is the players. A large majority of players, certainly in the Amarr militia are quite frankly afk idiots. How else can I struggle to give away free ships (reason being people won't be afraid to lose their ship) and actually get smacked for it? I'm even told to shut up advertising so they can spend the next three hours collecting seven x's for a little gang... How stupid can people be? That stupid apparently. Fine then, implode the Amarr Militia. CCP, you failed to account for your players. I wholeheartedly agree with you Danfraser. just know you have been able to give at least a few ships to me. But mostly, the Amarr militia consists of people that signed up for it, but never x up. REALLY frustrating. Reading the above posts: spying is definately a thing that hampers the militia greatly and gets people to turn away from FW - noobs and experienced ppl alike.
Rhanna Khurin	Posted - 2008.06.25 07:57:00 - [66] I think the FW is very good for alliances as they'll soon have a bunch of pilots that have pvp experience and can work as a team. So more quality peeps to recruit.
Sikarn	Posted - 2008.06.25 08:52:00 - [67] Originally by: Rells Untrained pvp sucks. Get some training and experience real pvp for a while and yo uwill change your mind. Being in a disorganized riot is not the same as a well functioning, coordinated, fleet. This is funny. For newer players like myself, FW is the closest thing you'll get at some sort of PvP training since you won't get it anywhere else. 0.0 corps? They ask for experience and high skillpoint characters. Umm yeah, that helps. The playerbase is shooting itself in the foot here.
Rodj Blake PIE Inc.	Posted - 2008.06.25 09:04:00 - [68] Join Amarr. You get action whenever you want it. Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
Deej Montana Outbound Flight	Posted - 2008.06.25 13:33:00 - [69] Originally by: Bast's Cleric I have some issues with the Missions Offered in FW. Level 1, Quality 3 Agent, and he wants me to go Kill a Battle cruiser, Protected by 6 Frigates and a Cruiser. Doesn't Sound like a Level 1 Mission to me. On top of having to Dodge War targets I'm also Having to Try and Kill Stuff Far Byond the Friage that My 2 weke old self can Fly. Well Done CCP, Well Done for making it impossible for New players to get into PVP, or even PVP related PVE. Exactly. Coupled with the fact that you're flying a disposable T1 frig, destroyer or cruiser through 10-15 jumps of enemy territory full of WTs just to get to the mission for very little reward makes the whole thing an exercise in frustration. I enjoy a challenge, but this has gotten fun and suicide confused. I lost 3 ships running a mission on Sisi before this mess went live and I decided that it's just not worth the hassle. As someone said earlier the whole mission strucure needs an overhaul. FW seems to me like a huge compromised mess. Too bad, it could have been so much more. Carebear? You say that like it's a bad thing....
Rells Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2008.06.26 00:56:00 - [70] Originally by: Sikarn Originally by: Rells Untrained pvp sucks. Get some training and experience real pvp for a while and yo uwill change your mind. Being in a disorganized riot is not the same as a well functioning, coordinated, fleet. This is funny. For newer players like myself, FW is the closest thing you'll get at some sort of PvP training since you won't get it anywhere else. 0.0 corps? They ask for experience and high skillpoint characters. Umm yeah, that helps. The playerbase is shooting itself in the foot here. hmm you dont know AGONY it seems. We have been working with, training, and hiring newer players for 2 years. We have all range of players from 40milion to 400 thousand SP.



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