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TomB
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Posted - 2004.05.15 23:00:00 -
[1]
These changes are live on Chaos for testing
These first tunings are only a start of balancing fitting issues with the battleships and play styles for the ships as they were designed for. You can read all about it here on second post about armor tanking and ship stuff. Remember only to reply with useful information regarding this subject and no debating on this thread, keep it clean to make it easier to get the wanted feedback and comments. Spam and useless posts will be deleted and spammers will as always get podded.
Ship Power & CPU changes:
Apocalypse Power: 19500 (was 15000)
Armageddon Power: 16500 (was 12500)
Megathron Power: 15000 (was 12500)
Raven Power: 9500 (was 10000)
Raven CPU: 700 (was 600)
Tempest Power: 13500 (was 12500)
Typhoon Power: 12500 (was 9500)
Modules:
Siege Launcher Power: 1750 (was 1000)
Large Armor Repairer: 2000 (was 950)
Tachyon Beam Power: 3750 (was 4250)
* The Raven gets a little power nerf instead for the CPU boost, check fitting with the current Raven on Chaos.
* Tempest and Megathron get less power boost than apoc and armageddon because of less power need for fitting railguns or artilleries + launchers.
2004.07.06 19:30:45combatTomB strikes you critically with his Nerf Bat, pwning you for -100% everything. |
Faster ThanJesus
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Posted - 2004.05.15 23:11:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Faster ThanJesus on 15/05/2004 23:17:58
Edited by: Faster ThanJesus on 15/05/2004 23:16:07
Edited by: Faster ThanJesus on 15/05/2004 23:12:54
 Originally by: BH Hammerhead
I just want to post before Josh Calvert 
Doesn't that constitute spam? Or am I not allowed to talk about it... kind of fight club style?
Anyway, interesting stuff, but do you have any provisional stats on the mini seige launcher, which I believe will be more significant to Raven fittings than the alterations made to the its core stats?
Edit - as an aside to this, I think the siege launcher should have an increased CPU requirement due to it becoming so much more
powerful (by virtue of the lower reload rates) making raven users need those mini sieges (obviously depending on their stats).
Edit 3 - can't spell (must stop posting after beer)
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Hellek
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Posted - 2004.05.15 23:11:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Hellek on 15/05/2004 23:17:14
Wow, that's really interesting.
I think the Raven has a bit too much CPU now though, and I think that on the other side, the CPU of the Apoc is too low. Although i.e. Megabeams use only 55 CPU this is still a lot compared to the 500 CPU the Apoc has.
Sure, 19500 grid is also a lot compared to 9500  , well, we will see, Chaos is not up yet, but I think an increase would be a good thing (not only for me but also for balance ), maybe only a small increase like 25 though. (so that it would have 525 CPU)
I just think 100 CPU for 500 grid is a too good deal for the raven pilots, as the CPU:Grid ratio seems to be about 1:20, or even if seen relatively, 15% CPU boost for 5% less grid.
Anyway, the changes are really very interesting and I am looking forward to try them out and make a detailed post about what I found out.
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CCP Hammerhead
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Posted - 2004.05.15 23:12:00 -
[4]
I'll be spawning that stuff (new launchers) on chaos. There was a recent mirror so your characters are all up to date.
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Chode Rizoum
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Posted - 2004.05.15 23:12:00 -
[5]
Siege Launcher Power: 1750 (was 1000)
let me see 6 x 1750 = 10500
will be hard to armor tank the raven now :) and use 1400 mm proj
Centuria > whoot?
Centuria > you stalking me? :)
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Nafri > then I a bird pooed on my head AND ON MY MEAL
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http://www.subroc.net/teddybears/
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Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2004.05.15 23:40:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Hellek
I think the Raven has a bit too much CPU now though, and I think that on the other side, the CPU of the Apoc is too low. Although i.e. Megabeams use only 55 CPU this is still a lot compared to the 500 CPU the Apoc has.
I don't think so, shield tanking is very CPU intensive, and that's what the Raven is designed for. Power Diagnostics use 20tf each, the tech II ones use 30tf each, quite a bit.
The Raven uses the most CPU intensive weapons and modules in the game, hands down. XL Shield Booster, is very CPU intensive, the shield boost amp is CPU intensive, launchers and railguns use the most CPU of any weapons, it makes sense that the Raven have quite a bit more CPU than the Apocalypse or any other non-caldari battleship.
On the flip side, the Apocalypse uses the most powergrid hungry weapons in the game, and it's pretty clear that the Apocalypse has been blessed with much more grid now for its weapons and armor repairers.
Not to mention the Apocalypse has many low slots for a spare co-proc where as the Raven is much more limited in this regard, if a Raven devotes too much of his lowslots to non shield tanking modules, you wind up with a very crappy shield tank, which isn't much of a tank at all.
It's not like lowslots are not useful, as many people seem to pretend they aren't for some reason.
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ROBBLE ROBBLE |
Adrastos
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Posted - 2004.05.16 00:13:00 -
[7]
if Large Armor Repairer gets 2000 in power req i would belive the dominix needs a boost to, as i understand it the dom is a blaster ship and needs armour tanking to be effective just like the mega.
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Shirei
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Posted - 2004.05.16 00:15:00 -
[8]
What will be the PG/CPU requirements for the new Cruise Launcher?
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Bram Bram
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Posted - 2004.05.16 00:42:00 -
[9]
Will armor repairers boost armor at the start of the armor repairer cycle, as the shield booster does? Or do you have to guess the correct time for switching them on? Might not be directly related to topic, but will there be named armor hardners as well? They would help lower cpu needs for armor tanks.
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Anubies Hazas
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Posted - 2004.05.16 01:21:00 -
[10]
how will a raven be able to shield tank effectively when the new changes to cap relay comes in? to me the raven seems to be getting a bad nerfing.
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Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2004.05.16 04:51:00 -
[11]
how about a Raven with torpedoes at short range though, would that not be pretty devestating against an Apocalypse? Cruise missiles seem like very fast missiles for long range, and should compare nicely against the long range turrets with ranged ammunition/crystals.
At shorter ranges, Torpedoes should be really strong, they do about 560 damage per torpedo with skills with these changes and you won't have to reload as much on top of that, plus they will be cheaper and as fast as cruise missiles are on tranquility right now.
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ROBBLE ROBBLE |
Amy Foxx
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Posted - 2004.05.16 04:53:00 -
[12]
hummm looking at those numbers, a Raven cannot fit a full load of launchers, two 425mm rails, and anything it might use for sheild tanking...
The new numbers will be something like 16K PG just for 6 seige launchers (6 X 1750 = 10500 PG) and 2 425mm rails ( 2 X 2750 = 5500PG)
A Raven with a base PG of 9500 will see 11875 after enegering 5...
My current Raven Set up is running close to 12.75k PG useage... and that is 6 seige launchers and 2 425mm rails, three sheild hardners and a large sheild booster..
As for the CPU 875 at Electroics V with a base of 700, that is LOADS of CPU... I only get close to 840 on my curent set up when I have everything but the 100MN MWD on...
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Garramon
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Posted - 2004.05.16 06:29:00 -
[13]
I just don't get why we should be able to fit all 8 of the best weapons on at one time. Why bother having the other weapons then?
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Ishtari
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Posted - 2004.05.16 07:20:00 -
[14]
No changes to the `forgotten`Dominix? Maybe something change to ship special ability to make that huge dronebay usefull?
I know off topic
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Rerir
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Posted - 2004.05.16 08:13:00 -
[15]
IMO, This will take the fun out of fitting the ships, it¦ll be too easy to make uber setups with so high cpu & pg stats.
Only good change I see is the Raven cpu increase.
Rerir, deadduck1 |
Rob Mattacks
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Posted - 2004.05.16 08:25:00 -
[16]
I think these changes look very good. Hopefully CPU will keep the mega,apoc and arma from uber weapon set ups encouraging them to use armor defence. I am glad that it is gonna be tough for raven to fit 6 siege and 2 425mm's also cos no one else can fit a full compliment of their top weapon of choice. I like the fact that the tempest is getting a boost to grid cos it needed it with the missile changes. With the stacking nerf no one is gonna be able to comletely tank anyway so hopefully fitting your ship will get more interesting.....
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Elrathias
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Posted - 2004.05.16 09:46:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Elrathias on 15/06/2004 02:07:08
Edited by: Elrathias on 15/06/2004 00:40:09
CHANGED!
In the light of these proposed changes, im really going to have to whine.
i dont like it, but having the siege powergrid need, upped that much, will cripple the scorpion, as it is.
12500mw, minus 4 siege (a must otherwise im incapable of dealing damage), is 4500mw, for 2 highslots, where id prefer to atleast have two guns, im probobly looking at 250mm railguns now, AND 8 medslots, whereof one will be a XLARGE shieldbooster.
i could fit 2 nosferatos, maybe not though. i could prbobly fit a nosfearto and a shield transferer. then again, probobly not.
This wont work tomb, really, it wont work.
Im going to leave the proposing of changes, to stop this, or atleast make the scorp nerf a bit more subtle.
Regards, Elrathias.
Celestial Apocalypse
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Rob Mattacks
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Posted - 2004.05.16 10:08:00 -
[18]
Actually the scorpion wont be too badly affected. The grid with engineering lv 5 is 11250 mw and fitting 4 siege (7000mw) will leave you with 4250 mw for 2 turrets. If you wanna fit 2 425mm's may have to use a low slot for grid upgrade but no other ship can fit all their desired weapons without doing this so....
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Darius Shakor
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Posted - 2004.05.16 10:36:00 -
[19]
Thanks tomb for posting the new info. I can go back to my rather messy looking sheet of paper now and make more changes to my setups.
One request that I keep repeating and will do so until it is done is can you please post some more info on fitting requirements for the cruise launchers so it gives us all an idea of what they will need?
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Analysis[Ceasefire]....Complete - 'Term given to the act of firing, causing the ceasation of the life it is directed at |
Tyrrant
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Posted - 2004.05.16 14:30:00 -
[20]
Tomb-
Before you implement all these changes at once, can u introduce the small siege launcher first? This way the tempest and the typhoon dont get nerf'd, until some one gets the agent bp and sells them at a redicilous price? just to make everything fair and balanced?
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TomB
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Posted - 2004.05.16 17:45:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Lansfear
Why isnt the Dominix getting a power grid increase? To fit any decent setup requires power diags or reactor control units, and thats just if you want 4 425mm rails out of the 6 turret slots.
Dominix has loads of CPU, can shield tank nicely and the 350mm will be more suited for it. On the other hand, i'm looking into increasing the base drone space of dominix and removing the drone space ship bonus for a damage bonus on drones doing kinetic damage...
2004.07.06 19:30:45combatTomB strikes you critically with his Nerf Bat, pwning you for -100% everything. |
Bella Verde
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Posted - 2004.05.16 18:58:00 -
[22]
Actually you can control 10 drones if you train long enough. And I think they are planning on introducing larger drones, imagine having 10 super-heavy drones.
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Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2004.05.16 20:21:00 -
[23]
I have no idea how to stop an Apoc fitting 8 425mm's simply because of the cap usage of lasers; even if you make lasers/hybrids have the exact same damage over time and you could fit an equal number of turrets, an Apoc pilot will always go for the less cap greedy weapon.
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Tyrael Winterheart
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Posted - 2004.05.16 21:25:00 -
[24]
* Tempest and Megathron get less power boost than apoc and armageddon because of less power need for fitting railguns or artilleries + launchers.
Are these changes supposed to reflect more than the increased grid needs of armor repairers? They must because the Apoc and Arma are getting so much more than the Mega and Tempest, which will change the balance in powergrid that is currently in place allowing Amarr ships to fit more of their weaponry and still have the same amount of grid that the Mega and Tempest just got left over. That's not even starting to go into Amarr ships fitting Hybrids and Projectiles.
I like some others that have posted would like to see Hybrid CPU needs upped as well as the CPU on Caldari and Gallente ships raised accordingly to discourage Amarr ships from fitting them, as for Projectiles I'm not sure as I have no experience using them.
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Lansfear
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Posted - 2004.05.16 22:00:00 -
[25]
Originally by: TomB
Originally by: Lansfear
Why isnt the Dominix getting a power grid increase? To fit any decent setup requires power diags or reactor control units, and thats just if you want 4 425mm rails out of the 6 turret slots.
Dominix has loads of CPU, can shield tank nicely and the 350mm will be more suited for it. On the other hand, i'm looking into increasing the base drone space of dominix and removing the drone space ship bonus for a damage bonus on drones doing kinetic damage...
I LOVE YOU!
Now all we need are drones that will actualy tax the space the dom has for them, maybe make a drone that is 1000m¦? (that does kinetic damage ofcourse.... )
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Nafri
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Posted - 2004.05.16 23:07:00 -
[26]
what about making the 425er using very much CPU and boosting both Gallente and Caldari Ships so that only thy can fit the 425ers?
together with some decent lasers boosts it would solve some problems
Wanna fly with me?
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Rinji
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Posted - 2004.05.17 00:57:00 -
[27]
I'm a bit worried about the Dom too, my favorite ship. No, really.
Anyway, it makes a nice armor tank, and I think should be able to continue to do so after the changes, but with a bump like that to the large repairer fitting the Dom needs a boost or it will be left far behind.
Vice Admiral Rinji Morisato
Logistics Division
Commanding Officer of Logistics Division |
Ronyo Dae'Loki
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Posted - 2004.05.17 03:06:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Rinji
I'm a bit worried about the Dom too, my favorite ship. No, really.
Anyway, it makes a nice armor tank, and I think should be able to continue to do so after the changes, but with a bump like that to the large repairer fitting the Dom needs a boost or it will be left far behind.
Agreed, give the Dom maybe 1000MW more and it should be fine.
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My salsa makes all the pretty girls want to dance and take off their underpants.
I <3 ( . Y . ) |
ClawHammer III
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Posted - 2004.05.17 06:15:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Ronyo Dae'Loki
Originally by: Rinji
I'm a bit worried about the Dom too, my favorite ship. No, really.
Anyway, it makes a nice armor tank, and I think should be able to continue to do so after the changes, but with a bump like that to the large repairer fitting the Dom needs a boost or it will be left far behind.
Agreed, give the Dom maybe 1000MW more and it should be fine.
Actualy, I think the Dominix should get about 3000Mw more to bring it back in line with the Typhoon's powergrid.
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Daiken
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Posted - 2004.05.17 06:52:00 -
[30]
quote Tomb: "These first tunings are only a start of balancing fitting issues with the battleships and play styles for the ships as they were designed for".
At the roleplay aspect it's a cool thing to have a old warhorse in the game. But not at the balancing... it's kinda hard to balance the Dominix and Scorpion (or Typhoon) in the "way they're designed for".
A (few hundret!?) year old ship against a new "top of the line" ultra technology Battleship.
Personally I don't care for that.. make an announcment at the inGame-roleplay news, "the Gallente ppl had made a new technology upgrade for there "oldest warhorse", to offer this ship a better way to not be useless in war."
(pro for +1000pg)
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