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Sewell
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Posted - 2004.05.17 09:10:00 -
[91]
I thinks Baun's assumption that the Raven is presently a dud is way off.
In my opinion the Raven is one of the best battleships out there - it is a superb shield tank, missiles always hit, and if you get jammed - just switch to FoF missiles and carry on fighting (a jammed Apoc with rails is a sitting duck).
To everyone saying "but missiles never hit at long range so the Raven is worthless!" I can only point out that a Megathron with blasters won't hit anyting at long range either. And since missiles are going to travel faster, the range issue will not be as big as now.
So, I think the Raven still will be a good ship after these changes, and the Apoc will have been made a good ship too, and that's ok with me.
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Estios
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Posted - 2004.05.17 09:35:00 -
[92]
As it appears whiners seem to get un-needed nerfs and changes through, I would like 7 Turret hard points on the Tempest please because if we are going to have to fit anti frig guns such as 425 AC's I feel only have 6 points is unbalanced.
Also while you are at it I would also like 5000 more shield and a billion more armour. Plus some go faster stripes and speed holes.
So HMV consider Andy Williams and Dean Martin to be "easy listening" do they? Tell that to my mate Dave, he's been deaf for 20 years.
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Matanga
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Posted - 2004.05.17 11:40:00 -
[93]
 Originally by: Isiana
WTT tempest for apocalypse
oh and im not speaking as a raven user thats jealous that my ship will be kinda useless, i can fly all bs, amd i can change as the nerf wheel goes forward, The Apoc will be the flavor of the month :)
Sad but true  This is the only way to go in this game.
Cheers
A sad Scorp pilot
"ÆIn accordance with the principles of double-think it does not matter if the war is not real. For when it is, victory is not possible. The war is not meant to be won, but it is meant to be continuous.Æö
George Orwell ô1984ö |
Grut
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Posted - 2004.05.17 12:03:00 -
[94]
After playing around on chaos for abit i've found the only real way to goes pdus and a cap injector even then my raven could only fit 1x dual heavy and 1x heavy beam, the damage seems well... sucky.
I'd much prefer a higher dot launcher with more reloads to the current system of treating them like turrets and forgeting about htem after they've switched on.
Conversely i took out a well equiped raven in a geddon using lasers so it looks like amarr are getting all the love these days 
Mostly harmless |
Grut
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Posted - 2004.05.17 12:03:00 -
[95]
After playing around on chaos for abit i've found the only real way to goes pdus and a cap injector even then my raven could only fit 1x dual heavy and 1x heavy beam, the damage seems well... sucky.
I'd much prefer a higher dot launcher with more reloads to the current system of treating them like turrets and forgeting about htem after they've switched on.
Conversely i took out a well equiped raven in a geddon using lasers so it looks like amarr are getting all the love these days
Mostly harmless |
Nafri
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Posted - 2004.05.17 12:14:00 -
[96]
Originally by: Estios
As it appears whiners seem to get un-needed nerfs and changes through, I would like 7 Turret hard points on the Tempest please because if we are going to have to fit anti frig guns such as 425 AC's I feel only have 6 points is unbalanced.
Also while you are at it I would also like 5000 more shield and a billion more armour. Plus some go faster stripes and speed holes.
425er wont hit the frigs, what about 2 small assault launchers with light missles? should solve the problem for you and with 6x 1400er you can still deal nice damage.
think i will use small weapons on my raven till it finally dies and i get a tempest too
Wanna fly with me?
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Jazz Bo
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Posted - 2004.05.17 12:24:00 -
[97]
Edited by: Jazz Bo on 17/05/2004 12:29:25
Originally by: fras
I havn't been able to get on Chaos since the changes So I wont comment on setups etc. I think if we are really going down the route of Ravens having to shield tank(which I think is a shame), then the ships that have gotten a PG boost need to be forced to armour tank too, it's the only way of adding some balance to their huge grid.
Yes.
I suggest that the Shield booster Cpu requirement is kept the same or even increased, but that the ships that are "supposed" to shield tank get a Cpu boost, just like the ships that are "supposed" to armor tank are getting a PG boost.
That way the shield tankers can't use armor repairers without PG enhancing modules, and the armor tankers can't use shield boosters (or rather can't use the XL booster) without Co-processors.
This way we'd get rid of uber armor tanking Ravens and uber shield tanking Apocs. Althought with a stacking penalty on the Cap Relays (?) and none on the med slot cap rechargers the Apoc is still going to have more cap, which it will need to use it's more cap sucking main weaponry.
Originally by: DB Preacher
Celestial Apocalypse - Brave souls fighting the endless smak.
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Baun
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Posted - 2004.05.17 13:27:00 -
[98]
Quote:
To everyone saying "but missiles never hit at long range so the Raven is worthless!" I can only point out that a Megathron with blasters won't hit anyting at long range either.
I was unaware that cruise missles, which have a range of over 150km, are supposed to be the equivalent of a blaster with an optimal range of 6km, o silly me.
The reason I am calling the Raven a dud is simple; While all the Megathron and the Apoc are being made even better (by virtue of increased powergrid) or at worst being left essentially as they are, the Raven is being handed new problems. As it stands a Raven already has an incredibly hard time fitting siege launchers and tanking, so it is already handicapped. Luckily, if you spend an assload of money on modules and train weapons upgrades 5, you CAN get around some of its fitting issues.
Now, however, the Raven users are being shackled with a problem that different modules cannot help and that no skill that they train can alleviate. The result is that the Raven now has an even harder time fitting what it is "supposed to fit" while the Megathron and the Apocalypse (and the armageddon and to some extent the typhoon) have an easier time fitting what they are "supposed to fit". For this reason, despite the fact that it seems the Raven's main weapon has been fixed, the Raven itself is still getting the short end of the stick.
For my proposed balancing of this issue, check out the proposition for named launchers and shield boosters. This would bring the powergrid reduction of those modules, intended for CPU strapped ships, inline with the CPU reduction of turrets intended for CPU strapped ships. It wouldn't alleviate the Raven's new fitting issue on its own, but it would give a Raven user more options.
The Enemy's Gate is Down
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Admiral IceBlock
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Posted - 2004.05.17 14:11:00 -
[99]
The raven is not suppose to fitt 6 siege launchers and 2 large guns... just like the apoc is not suppose to fitt 8 tachyons...
stop ur whining, its stupid... why should the raven be able to fitt the best weapons for its race (siege launchers) and still be the best shield tank?
You want to be a uber shield tank in ur raven? use the new Cruise Launcher I!!!!
"We brake for nobody"
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Baun
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Posted - 2004.05.17 14:22:00 -
[100]
Originally by: Admiral IceBlock
The raven is not suppose to fitt 6 siege launchers and 2 large guns... just like the apoc is not suppose to fitt 8 tachyons...
stop ur whining, its stupid... why should the raven be able to fitt the best weapons for its race (siege launchers) and still be the best shield tank?
You want to be a uber shield tank in ur raven? use the new Cruise Launcher I!!!!
No but an Apoc CAN fit 8 425s which are better than 8 tachyons and still outshield tank the Raven. THAT is one of the central issues here.
Rather than getting caught up in self righteously denouncing my "whining" why don't you strap your thinking cap on and start reading what I am writing.
I have no issues with the Raven being handed fitting problems. Indeed, it already had fitting problems which it was difficult to get around. Now, however, it is impossible to get around the fitting problems without sacrificing a LOT of low slots. All I am asking for are the same options turret users have to equip their ships with CPU issues. Indeed, given that there is no skill for powergrid reduction I am asking for only 1 out of the 2 options turret users have that missles users do not have.
Finally,
The cruise launcher is not a viable primary weapon. It has an RoF of 30 seconds. That is plain trash.
The Enemy's Gate is Down
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Admiral IceBlock
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Posted - 2004.05.17 14:30:00 -
[101]
Quote:
Finally,
The cruise launcher is not a viable primary weapon. It has an RoF of 30 seconds. That is plain trash.
Offence Vs Defence!
If you want to use 6 of the ravens "primary" weapons, then u cant shield tank as good as u would without the 6 of the "primary" weapons...
"We brake for nobody"
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qrac
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Posted - 2004.05.17 14:51:00 -
[102]
Originally by: Baun
Originally by: Admiral IceBlock
The raven is not suppose to fitt 6 siege launchers and 2 large guns... just like the apoc is not suppose to fitt 8 tachyons...
stop ur whining, its stupid... why should the raven be able to fitt the best weapons for its race (siege launchers) and still be the best shield tank?
You want to be a uber shield tank in ur raven? use the new Cruise Launcher I!!!!
No but an Apoc CAN fit 8 425s which are better than 8 tachyons and still outshield tank the Raven. THAT is one of the central issues here.
Rather than getting caught up in self righteously denouncing my "whining" why don't you strap your thinking cap on and start reading what I am writing.
I have no issues with the Raven being handed fitting problems. Indeed, it already had fitting problems which it was difficult to get around. Now, however, it is impossible to get around the fitting problems without sacrificing a LOT of low slots. All I am asking for are the same options turret users have to equip their ships with CPU issues. Indeed, given that there is no skill for powergrid reduction I am asking for only 1 out of the 2 options turret users have that missles users do not have.
Finally,
The cruise launcher is not a viable primary weapon. It has an RoF of 30 seconds. That is plain trash.
i still don't get it. 6 siege launchers do more damage than 8 425mm rails and the apoc can't outtank (shields) the raven.
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Insanes numquam moriuntur! |
Hellek
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Posted - 2004.05.17 15:04:00 -
[103]
baun, the 8 425rails are about as good as 6 of them on a megathron. furthermore, if mounting those guns, it can NOT outtank a raven with 6 sieges if the raven pilot has good skills.
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JoCool
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Posted - 2004.05.17 15:07:00 -
[104]
Of course it can outtank the Raven. How should the Raven with PDUs to fit its weapons outtank the Apoc with 6-7 CPRs, a big ass cap and thus its monstrous cap recharge?
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qrac
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Posted - 2004.05.17 15:25:00 -
[105]
Originally by: JoCool
Of course it can outtank the Raven. How should the Raven with PDUs to fit its weapons outtank the Apoc with 6-7 CPRs, a big ass cap and thus its monstrous cap recharge?
hmm let me see.. 1 shield amp means that he can turn off his shield booster ~1 per 3 repeats. this is enough to keep it going without ever capping out and still be able to tank as much as the apoc. the torps hit for more than the railguns and thus the raven has superior firepower too. fit the 2 highslots left over with something and u can have fun :P
*note* cap relays are getting stacking nerfed and u wont be able to fit that apoc loadout with power diags while the raven can fit power diags and then fit some in the high slots. i played around a bit with the raven and could run a xlarge c5-l for some minutes with power diags before capping out.
the xlarge c5-l together with an amp repairs roughly 50% more shield than the xlarge clarity which the apoc wont even be able to fit with power diags.
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Insanes numquam moriuntur! |
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