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Tatsujin Koufu	Posted - 2008.06.25 07:33:00 - [1] Edited by: Tatsujin Koufu on 25/06/2008 07:34:22 I get some random mail off a dude saying hes overpayed for some missiles Here is the transaction log http://forums.lost-chapter.net/download/file.php?id=3 I leave it for you good reader.refund? Quote: 2008.06.24 16:04 i don`t supose i could ask you to give my money back, right? So I take a look at the transaction logs, think it looks like a backfired scam and deny his request Quote: 2008.06.24 18:00 you could, but the order looks like you were trying to set up a scam so the answer is regretfully no I get another mail.. Quote: 2008.06.25 05:19 lol m8, i was trying to buy some missiles, you are the one who is set up a scam. i realise that you are 200 millions richer, but that was my money, and i am broke now. i have nicely asked of you to return me my money m8 .... i have worked hard for it and it`s ... my money. at least you could do is to show up some character. it`s a game ... not real life... Apparently im now a scammer, although last time i checked it was not necessary to add more zeros to an existing sell order.. Then he engages me in chat.. random idiot > o/ Tatsujin Koufu > hi random idiot > i just received ur email random idiot > i had no buy order Tatsujin Koufu > you must have done random idiot > i purched some missiles Tatsujin Koufu > because i dont scam sell my missiles random idiot > was not paying to much attention on the 0 random idiot > with 200 milion isj? random idiot > isk ? random idiot > you sell 1000 missiles with 200 milions isk? Tatsujin Koufu > no random idiot > yes u did Tatsujin Koufu > think you will find they are priced at 186isk random idiot > that is scamming Tatsujin Koufu > is it **** Tatsujin Koufu > i dont scam Tatsujin Koufu > i have never scammed random idiot > mate random idiot > i have the hjurnal random idiot > jurnal log random idiot > you just scammed me Tatsujin Koufu > i think you need to go get a clue mate random idiot > of 200 millions isk Tatsujin Koufu > YOU filled in the amount random idiot > you want my log? random idiot > do you have 200 milions isk ? Tatsujin Koufu > i dont need it , I have my own Tatsujin Koufu > no i have several billion isk random idiot > then please give it back random idiot > i have no money Tatsujin Koufu > hard earned, from MONTHS of providing missile services to this system random idiot > mate i have no money Tatsujin Koufu > in fact i would go so far as to say, I sell about 80% of all missiles in this system random idiot > look into the log random idiot > you just received 200 millions isk, right? Tatsujin Koufu > you want to see my log Tatsujin Koufu > the one that shows other people, before and after you paying a NORMAL price for missiles? Tatsujin Koufu > what was the time of the transaction? random idiot > 2008.06.24 15.53 random idiot > i have screenshots if u need Tatsujin Koufu > so do it Tatsujin Koufu > xxai random idiot > i asked u nicely if you could give me back my money Tatsujin Koufu > 2008.06.24 15:28 random idiot > u want screenshot? Tatsujin Koufu > no man, you have sat there and blatently accused me of cheating and scamming Tatsujin Koufu > thats NOT asking nicely random idiot > you say you don`t scam ppl random idiot > i will show you the log, ok ? Tatsujin Koufu > mate Tatsujin Koufu > i get to see the log from my side Tatsujin Koufu > you dont Tatsujin Koufu > i have much more data than you random idiot > i will show you the transaction Tatsujin Koufu > the log just shows what your fool ass typed into the price window, NOT what i was charging at the time. random idiot > dude random idiot > you had a sell order<br>with 1000 paradice cruise missiles random idiot > and you charged 200 milions for them random idiot > that is not scamming? random idiot > you say that you are a faire person, prove it Tatsujin Koufu > i didnt charge you 200 mil random idiot > i just want my money back Tatsujin Koufu > you cant type, how is that my fault? random idiot > i am broke Tatsujin Koufu > and again, how is
Franga NQX Innovations	Posted - 2008.06.25 07:37:00 - [2] Good for you. I got 76mil of a sale of 100 missiles once. Didn't even know I'd set the price at that level. Was a nice surprise. Even if it is a scam, he should probably check what he's doing before placing the order. Originally by: Rachel Vend ... with 100% reliability in most cases ...
Sepulcher Domini	Posted - 2008.06.25 07:42:00 - [3] even that. i don`t agree with these scams. that is what they are. you have 3 bills from what i can see, what good are 200 more? that dude really looks desperate, you could consider giving his money back.
Huurtney Gurdsen	Posted - 2008.06.25 07:46:00 - [4] Edited by: Huurtney Gurdsen on 25/06/2008 07:46:32 His approach was wrong, but it sounds like he typo'd himself out of 200 million. Now you have to choose between giving him the balance back or not. I suspect from your tone that had he approached you with "I'm dreadfully sorry but I have made this mistake (weep) and please sir can I have my money back?" you might have given it to him. I'd give it back to him, minus what he was supposed to have paid, on the basis of do as you would have others do to you.
RaTTuS BIG	Posted - 2008.06.25 07:48:00 - [5] Edited by: RaTTuS on 25/06/2008 07:49:53 Ba ! duplicate post -- BIG Lottery, BIG Deal, InEve,
RaTTuS BIG	Posted - 2008.06.25 07:50:00 - [6] looks like a fail on his part, no scam, he just pasted in too many iskies... now it's up to you what you do I know what I'd do... refunding some and explaining how the market system works may help him out ... he's got a bad attitude though -- BIG Lottery, BIG Deal, InEve,
Rhanna Khurin	Posted - 2008.06.25 07:51:00 - [7] Edited by: Rhanna Khurin on 25/06/2008 07:53:59 Give him his money back i think. It's the right thing to do :D
Clara Mismer Gulfonodi Industries Shadow Donkeys	Posted - 2008.06.25 07:51:00 - [8] The missing peice here is that the order is filled by the lowest seller at the price the buyer put in. A LOT of people do not know that and so set up stupidly priced buy orders to launder cash. Those who don't understand the system are often amazed that their order was filled but not by the outrageous order they put up. Since you cant control who buys your product or how much over your asking price they pay the proper response to the request is "Have a nice day, unless of course you've made other plans".
Misila Distrugatorul	Posted - 2008.06.25 07:52:00 - [9] The honorable thing would be to give him the money back. You said it yourself you don't need his money, but not every one is as rich as you.
Sepulcher Domini	Posted - 2008.06.25 08:15:00 - [10] misila are you from romania :) ?
Tatsujin Koufu	Posted - 2008.06.25 08:16:00 - [11] I am considering refunding it upon an apology for calling me a scammer, its not what I want to be dealing with while im eating brekfast and tending to my wares. Its not the first time this has happened either, its just the first time someone has asked for the cash back in such a "direct" manner
Boschete Moshu	Posted - 2008.06.25 08:19:00 - [12] Edited by: Boschete Moshu on 25/06/2008 08:19:36 You want him to apologise on this thread :) ?
Tatsujin Koufu	Posted - 2008.06.25 08:21:00 - [13] Originally by: Sepulcher Domini even that. i don`t agree with these scams. that is what they are. you have 3 bills from what i can see, what good are 200 more? that dude really looks desperate, you could consider giving his money back. There is no scam here, hes done himself out of 200 mil by not paying attention After all, I cant create a buy order that requires some basic intelligence on the part of the buyer as part of the transaction
Tatsujin Koufu	Posted - 2008.06.25 08:22:00 - [14] Originally by: Boschete Moshu Edited by: Boschete Moshu on 25/06/2008 08:19:36 You want him to apologise on this thread :) ? Yeah it would go a long way
Boschete Moshu	Posted - 2008.06.25 08:27:00 - [15] Ok m8, as i sad in the chat, i am sorry to have called you a scammer, but, i was kind of upset. I don`t have all that much money, and when i saw it gone from the wallet i tought i was going insane. You showed a lot of caracter by doing this post and askin ppl. I hope you keep you end of the deal. fly safe
Tatsujin Koufu	Posted - 2008.06.25 08:35:00 - [16] Originally by: Boschete Moshu Ok m8, as i sad in the chat, i am sorry to have called you a scammer, but, i was kind of upset. I don`t have all that much money, and when i saw it gone from the wallet i tought i was going insane. You showed a lot of caracter by doing this post and askin ppl. I hope you keep you end of the deal. fly safe I will credit you with the full amount minus 221,000 ism (221x1000) when I log in this evening
Boschete Moshu	Posted - 2008.06.25 08:40:00 - [17] thank you very much
Roguehalo RH Ship Brokers	Posted - 2008.06.25 08:47:00 - [18] Edited by: Roguehalo on 25/06/2008 08:51:09 I placed a buy order for caracals for 320m once. Fortunately I only bought 4 before I discovered my mistake. I convoed a guy who I had bought 1 from and we did a deal where he kept 70m and returned 250m. The other guy who I bought 3 from for 960m refused to convo me and wouldn't answer my evemails. His name is Brother Arthus and here is a quote from his 'corp description' :- "What we are not? . Pirates . Stealers . Macrominers . Geeks . Nags . Nerds . Gankers . Unloyal" Had to chuckle at his sheer hypocrisy
NeoTheo Dark Materials	Posted - 2008.06.25 09:17:00 - [19] Edited by: NeoTheo on 25/06/2008 09:17:51 fail, in the extreme. Tat, for what its worth [and cheekily as your CEO, your in your rights to tell me to bugger off but], i wouldn't refund him anything no body has done us any favours, that there mate is that new abbadon for galvatine. ;) in fact if yuo give him the cash back, ill kick you.... lol. /Neo Neotheo Dark Materials Linkage
Boschete Moshu	Posted - 2008.06.25 09:21:00 - [20] maybe nobody has done you any favors because of your attitude NeoTheo? with this attitude nobody will help you m8.
Xparky Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2008.06.25 09:25:00 - [21] moshule pay more attention next time .
Huurtney Gurdsen	Posted - 2008.06.25 09:37:00 - [22] Glad you sorted that out amicably.
NeoTheo Dark Materials	Posted - 2008.06.25 09:43:00 - [23] Originally by: Boschete Moshu maybe nobody has done you any favors because of your attitude NeoTheo? with this attitude nobody will help you m8. i know mate, but here is the issue for me. We have had litterally 10's of people setting up fake and scam buy orders (and doing it wrong) THEN asking for the cash back when they realise they have***ed up. I am less motivated than ever to act on this stuff; Especially** after the person attacks my industry director with alligations of scamming. DAMT does not scamm the market, its about the only thing we dont do, but we DONT do that. Anyhow, me and tat have just argued this out, and in good cop bad cop fashion, the final say comes from tat as realistically i am just /flexing in something that is his responsibility. Personally though, i wouldnt have given you squat. You abused a senior member of our corp called him a scammer when the mistake was CLEARLY yours. You spent the best part of some time calling him a scammer when it was YOU who screwed up, appologie or not that makes you a dishonest person. on the other hand, call me what you will, I ALWAYS convay a consistant attitude, at least i am honest. the only thing that you can glean from this is Tat is way to nice, pay heed to this warning... pay attention to what your doing in EvE; not everyone is as nice as Tat. /neo. Neotheo Dark Materials Linkage
Disposeble Alt	Posted - 2008.06.25 10:00:00 - [24] People would have to come with pretty convincing stories for me to refund their money. If you overpay by such a large amount on a new order (not when ajusting an existing one) you get asked for confirmation. So my estimate of the situation would indeed be money laundring gone wrong and I'd petition the transaction (date time and person involved) to ccp allowing them to check out the buyer and the intended recipient for any foul play. Posts by alts hide political affiliation and history. No political statement by any alt should be taken seriously.
Tatsujin Koufu	Posted - 2008.06.25 10:18:00 - [25] Originally by: Disposeble Alt People would have to come with pretty convincing stories for me to refund their money. If you overpay by such a large amount on a new order (not when ajusting an existing one) you get asked for confirmation. So my estimate of the situation would indeed be money laundring gone wrong and I'd petition the transaction (date time and person involved) to ccp allowing them to check out the buyer and the intended recipient for any foul play. Now that is interesting. Let me get this right then, someone creates a massive overpriced sell order, someone creates a buy order....isk changes hands for IRL cash? Naturally missiles would be a good target for this kind of thing due to the large volume traded in the mission hubs... Is that about the size of it?
NeoTheo Dark Materials	Posted - 2008.06.25 10:23:00 - [26] Edited by: NeoTheo on 25/06/2008 10:23:14 if that is the case, id like us to check how clean the ISK is before doing anything else. if its not then /report. tat assuming you have understood that right can i please ask you to check it out with CCP. Neotheo Dark Materials Linkage
Slashamite	Posted - 2008.06.25 14:11:00 - [27] I'm not saying this was a scam. Even if it was, anyone who is dumb enough to fall for a scam deserves to have every single isk taken from them. Lack of reading, FTL. And no "well the honorable thing to do..." blah blah blah. Or "you obviously don't need his money..." blah blah blah. It's the guy's fault. Enjoy your 200m isk. He would have done something stupid with it anyway.
Wanglyi	Posted - 2008.06.30 10:09:00 - [28] Originally by: NeoTheo DAMT does not scamm the market, its about the only thing we dont do, but we DONT do that. Personally though, i wouldnt have given you squat. You abused a senior member of our corp called him a scammer when the mistake was CLEARLY yours. You spent the best part of some time calling him a scammer when it was YOU who screwed up, appologie or not that makes you a dishonest person. the only thing that you can glean from this is Tat is way to nice, pay heed to this warning... pay attention to what your doing in EvE; not everyone is as nice as Tat. /neo. Let me clear things up a bit, this should be a good lesson for players who could accidentally fall into this some other time :) So i was looking today, a few days after this whole scam/not scam argue, on the market in Isenairos, and shock - looks that your fellow corpmate Tatsujin Koufu is still selling packets of 500 Wrath Cruise Missiles with about 155000 isk a piece !! Here's a small screen: http://go-dl1.eve-files.com/media/0806/isenairos20080630.JPG Pardon my ignorance but what could be this called but lowest level scamming ? Maybe lowest than contracting ravens as CNR in Jita... Would you say that you can Accidentally sell 500 missiles with 150k a piece ? Its simpler than money laundering and other dark affairs some people started to fantasize some early posts. So i wonder why are you so offended after being called scammers and keep your corp member side - just keeping appearences, or being so trustful that you didnt even check the market ? Whats being so sad about dear Tat is that even so he claimed he would return the money, heard he was so nice as he never kept his word :) So this is not a scam, this is a scam's scam - so people who read that when you press that buy button - Open Your Eyes :)
Galvatine	Posted - 2008.06.30 10:27:00 - [29] Originally by: Wanglyi Originally by: NeoTheo DAMT does not scamm the market, its about the only thing we dont do, but we DONT do that. Personally though, i wouldnt have given you squat. You abused a senior member of our corp called him a scammer when the mistake was CLEARLY yours. You spent the best part of some time calling him a scammer when it was YOU who screwed up, appologie or not that makes you a dishonest person. the only thing that you can glean from this is Tat is way to nice, pay heed to this warning... pay attention to what your doing in EvE; not everyone is as nice as Tat. /neo. Let me clear things up a bit, this should be a good lesson for players who could accidentally fall into this some other time :) So i was looking today, a few days after this whole scam/not scam argue, on the market in Isenairos, and shock - looks that your fellow corpmate Tatsujin Koufu is still selling packets of 500 Wrath Cruise Missiles with about 155000 isk a piece !! Here's a small screen: http://go-dl1.eve-files.com/media/0806/isenairos20080630.JPG Pardon my ignorance but what could be this called but lowest level scamming ? Maybe lowest than contracting ravens as CNR in Jita... Would you say that you can Accidentally sell 500 missiles with 150k a piece ? Its simpler than money laundering and other dark affairs some people started to fantasize some early posts. So i wonder why are you so offended after being called scammers and keep your corp member side - just keeping appearences, or being so trustful that you didnt even check the market ? Whats being so sad about dear Tat is that even so he claimed he would return the money, heard he was so nice as he never kept his word :) So this is not a scam, this is a scam's scam - so people who read that when you press that buy button - Open Your Eyes :) way to go manufacturing "evidence" reported for blatantly defamatory post which im sure the gms can verify as FALSE
NeoTheo Dark Materials	Posted - 2008.06.30 10:30:00 - [30] stop amnufacturing evidence, your getting reported for that. and not only that, the money has not been returned yet because we have asked the GMs to make sure this wasnt a money laundering gig, IE if the money is legit youll get it back. all tho now your using alts to manufacure evidence, i am less bothered.

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