| Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5 6 :: one page |
|
|
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Gypsio III
Bambooule
   |
Posted - 2008.06.25 12:49:00 -
[31]
 Quote:
Pick any ship class and place Caldari in the top 2-3 I am sure it cant be done... prove me wrong happy to accept.
Best cruiser: Blackbird
Best battlecruiser: Drake
Best battleship: Scorpion
Best recon: Falcon
|
Xennith
Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude
Ushra'Khan
|
Posted - 2008.06.25 12:51:00 -
[32]
No, the OP i understand. Its good advice on a couple of very useful setups and how they could be used together effectively, towards the goal of increasing the ability of the caldari militia to fight without forming large fleets (blobs).
This is the post i dont understand:
Originally by: Kelli Flay
Got to love these threads where the OPer tries to "educate" people on how to deal with something that is unbalanced because they are so afraid it will get nerfed.
Fail.
because i assumed that you were on an anti-nano whine. apparently i was wrong. please enlighten me, what is so unbalanced and being protected from its just nerfing?
We come for our people |
Drachma Golea
hunter killers
|
Posted - 2008.06.25 12:57:00 -
[33]
Quote:
Raptors:
3x 75mm rails
WTB Raptor with 3 turrets?
|
Pychian Vanervi
Personal Vendetta
Vendetta Alliance.
|
Posted - 2008.06.25 13:00:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Xennith
Originally by: Pychian Vanervi
Pick any ship class and place Caldari in the top 2-3 I am sure it cant be done... prove me wrong happy to accept.
Recons:
Falcon,
Rapier,
everything else.
Interceptors:
Crow,
Taranis,
Stilleto,
Ok maybe the falcon, but thats a perspective thing.
Crow I will disagree with and say the ranis is best with claw and sader easily able to out gun and perform the crow.
For the guy about the Scorp, not sure what constitutes best but the ability to fit EW doesnt really make it the best. Back in the day maybe but if it was the best more would be seen in fleets.
b]-----------------------------
It's all about the fortune and glory, fortune and glory![/b]
[ |
Gypsio III
Bambooule
|
Posted - 2008.06.25 13:05:00 -
[35]
Quote:
Back in the day maybe but if it was the best more would be seen in fleets
Unfortunately people don't think like this. They tend to bring what is best for themselves, rather than what is best for their gang. Scorps always get primaried, and for good reason, so, in general, people dislike flying them.
Disregarding human nature, the maths is clear. A Scorpion removes enemy DPS more efficiently than any other battleship. This is most clearly manifested in a typical fleet sniper action, but still holds true on smaller scales.
|
Tippia
School of Applied Knowledge
|
Posted - 2008.06.25 13:06:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Drachma Golea
WTB Raptor with 3 turrets?
Try the market.
It's under Ships -> Interceptors -> Caldari.
Sells for roughly 7mil in my region.
|
Lorna Loot
Nox Eternus
|
Posted - 2008.06.25 13:06:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Drachma Golea
Quote:
Raptors:
3x 75mm rails
WTB Raptor with 3 turrets?
WTS: Show Info button.
|
RuleoftheBone
Ataraxia.
|
Posted - 2008.06.25 13:07:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Kelli Flay
Got to love these threads where the OPer tries to "educate" people on how to deal with something that is unbalanced because they are so afraid it will get nerfed.
Fail.
Goodness knows why you might try the OP fits/tactics and prove him wrong first. Which you won't by the way.
Far easier to toss out "fail" I suppose.
I am sure some of the Caldari folks might be appreciative.
"Lead Me..Follow Me..Or get the **** out of my way"
General George Patton USA
|
Esmenet
|
Posted - 2008.06.25 13:11:00 -
[39]
Edited by: Esmenet on 25/06/2008 13:11:17
Originally by: Kelli Flay
Got to love these threads where the OPer tries to "educate" people on how to deal with something that is unbalanced because they are so afraid it will get nerfed.
Fail.
Yes you better stick to the blobs of caracals and passive tanked drakes where the true power of caldari is... 
|
Kraleak
Induseng Enterprises
R0ADKILL
|
Posted - 2008.06.25 13:13:00 -
[40]
Edited by: Kraleak on 25/06/2008 13:14:21
Originally by: Drachma Golea
Quote:
Raptors:
3x 75mm rails
WTB Raptor with 3 turrets?
It has 3 Turret Hardpoints.
Originally by: Xennith
Originally by: Pychian Vanervi
Valid statement +1.
Recons:
Words.
Ok maybe the falcon, but thats a perspective thing.
More words, words words, claw (No webs are bad mmkay. People thinking to not fit a web on an inty and fit a Cap Recharger are what causes nano whines) and sader (See: Claw, also makes babies cry.) easily able to out gun and perform the crow.
For the guy about the Scorp, not sure what constitutes best but the ability to fit EW doesnt really make it the best. Back in the day maybe but if it was the best more would be seen in fleets.
I don't know what idea you think an Interceptor should be doing in fleets, but DPS is definately not one of them. Its meant to tackle, not 1v1 and "pwnerise noobs".
For the record, best Inty is the Ares with its sexy 3/3/4. Fit full tackle and nice nano lows.
As for the Scorp, the fact that its the only EW Battleship Hull (Widow) makes it infinitely more useful than any other battleship. No gankathron can gank something if its jammed.
Quote:
Originally by: CCP Prism X
omgomgomgomg....gag me with a SPOON!
Quote:
Originally by: CCP Prism X
devs are tasty treats
|
|
|
Xennith
Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude
Ushra'Khan
|
Posted - 2008.06.25 13:14:00 -
[41]
Pychian, i think the fact that its arguable proves the point really, Caldari have some absolutely fantastic ships. The problem is that Caldari ships are very role specific, ship X excels at task Y and god help you if you want it to do Z as well. As such caldari ships fit into gangs very well (excluding RR gangs) but cant really solo as easily as other races do.
Take the Rokh for example (personal favorite), you can have more EHPS than a Megathron with comparible blaster damage at much longer ranges. But god help you if you try to fit a point, web, MWD and cap booster on it.
We come for our people |
Rhanna Khurin
|
Posted - 2008.06.25 13:19:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Gypsio III
Quote:
Pick any ship class and place Caldari in the top 2-3 I am sure it cant be done... prove me wrong happy to accept.
Best cruiser: Blackbird
Best battlecruiser: Drake
Best battleship: Scorpion
Best recon: Falcon
Best PvP battlecruiser certainly isnt the drake, i think the Ferox rounds out a caldari fleet better than that. sure maybe a couple of Drakes, but who needs a bait ship in a blob?
|
Esmenet
|
Posted - 2008.06.25 13:22:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Rhanna Khurin
Best PvP battlecruiser certainly isnt the drake, i think the Ferox rounds out a caldari fleet better than that. sure maybe a couple of Drakes, but who needs a bait ship in a blob?
The drake is actually a great pvp battlecruiser, its just that you are so used to seeing people flying it in a PVE fit that sucks.
|
Kraleak
Induseng Enterprises
R0ADKILL
|
Posted - 2008.06.25 13:23:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Esmenet
Originally by: Rhanna Khurin
Words.
The drake is actually a great pvp battlecruiser, its just that you are so used to seeing people flying it in a PVE fit that sucks.
This is true. HAM drake much? It has alot of potential, just need to think out of the box.
Quote:
Originally by: CCP Prism X
omgomgomgomg....gag me with a SPOON!
Quote:
Originally by: CCP Prism X
devs are tasty treats
|
Mila Prestoc
|
Posted - 2008.06.25 13:24:00 -
[45]
People won't admit James is right because that means admitting they suck, its much easier to just blame the game or "OMG YOU HACK!" like loads do in first person shooters.
Caldari have great gang ships, i'd say there whole design philosophy is to gang warfare so if you can't use them right don't blame the game.
-------------------------
Originally by: "Lord Violent"
EvE is slowly becoming a game for the stupid, catered to by devs as they lack ability to kill/survive anything.
|
Gypsio III
Bambooule
|
Posted - 2008.06.25 13:27:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Esmenet
Originally by: Rhanna Khurin
Best PvP battlecruiser certainly isnt the drake, i think the Ferox rounds out a caldari fleet better than that. sure maybe a couple of Drakes, but who needs a bait ship in a blob?
The drake is actually a great pvp battlecruiser, its just that you are so used to seeing people flying it in a PVE fit that sucks.
Damn right. I'm not training HAM Spec V for nothing. 
Although I agree with your comment that a sniper Ferox is better suited for dealing damage to fast-movers at medium range.
|
Rhanna Khurin
|
Posted - 2008.06.25 13:32:00 -
[47]
There's already enough peeps firing missiles about willy-nilly, some rail support would go a long way to back it up.
Thats why i think Ferox is a better pvp ship
(just to clarify my previous statement)
|
kill0rbunny
Jagdkommando
RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.06.25 13:40:00 -
[48]
Edited by: kill0rbunny on 25/06/2008 13:42:56
Tbh, neither the ferox nor the drake fit in the shown gang concept, as both of them fill no real role that cannot be fulfilled by the three mentioned ships.
The lifetime of the raptors is totally dependant on the sheer jamming power of the blackbirds.
The drake can be used as a damage dealer if you are short on BOTH money and jamming skills.
But it will never ever perform as great as the raven does for slaughtering ships of any given ship size, hence the spidertanking ability and the range heavy neutralizers provide.
Ferox unfortunately does crap overall damage unless you have perfect gunnery skills.
And even then you still make more sense sitting in another blackbird.
When you use the raven with the given fitting and are lucky enough to have buddies do the same, your chances of losing a ship are extremely low. And even if you do, you lose about 20 Million after insurance.
That's extremely cost effective. For what it can do.
Go places. Kill people. |
Tippia
School of Applied Knowledge
|
Posted - 2008.06.25 13:43:00 -
[49]
Edited by: Tippia on 25/06/2008 13:43:42
Originally by: kill0rbunny
Tbh, neither the ferox nor the drake fit in the shown gang concept, as both of them fill no real role that cannot be fulfilled by the three mentioned ships.
Warfare links?
Or, put another way: what do you define as a "real role?"
|
kill0rbunny
Jagdkommando
RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.06.25 13:45:00 -
[50]
Edited by: kill0rbunny on 25/06/2008 13:46:26
Edited by: kill0rbunny on 25/06/2008 13:45:31
Originally by: Tippia
Warfare links?
Yeah, I must admit that's a possible option, the only one that actually makes sense, tbh.
But even then you only need one or two of those in a 100 man fleet.
Basilisk would be an ship that would be great too for keeping the others alive, at least if you have two of them.
Go places. Kill people. |
|
|
Gypsio III
Bambooule
|
Posted - 2008.06.25 13:53:00 -
[51]
Edited by: Gypsio III on 25/06/2008 13:54:18
Originally by: Rhanna Khurin
There's already enough peeps firing missiles about willy-nilly, some rail support would go a long way to back it up.
Thats why i think Ferox is a better pvp ship
(just to clarify my previous statement)
Well, it's situational, isn't it? In a close range shoot-out, HAM Drake has an excellent combination of DPS, tackle and tank. It may not have the DPS of a gank Harbinger or Brutix - but it has more EHP and projects and delivers its DPS more easily. It's far superior to blaster Ferox.
On the other hand, when fighting nanos, I agree that I'd rather have a Ferox squad. Or a Blackbird/Scorpion/Raven squad. Although that doesn't mean the HAM/HM Drakes are useless. If a tackler can hold a web on a nanocruiser for a few seconds, they still have the ability to deliver respectable DPS at useful ranges. Especially if there's a line of missiles already chasing the tackled target. From my experience, the FW blob hasn't really had the tacklers, or the ability to keep them alive, to make this work, though.
Quote:
Tbh, neither the ferox nor the drake fit in the shown gang concept, as both of them fill no real role that cannot be fulfilled by the three mentioned ships.
The lifetime of the raptors is totally dependant on the sheer jamming power of the blackbirds. The drake can be used as a damage dealer if you are short on BOTH money and jamming skills. But it will never ever perform as great as the raven does for slaughtering ships of any given ship size, hence the spidertanking ability and the range heavy neutralizers provide. Ferox unfortunately does crap overall damage unless you have perfect gunnery skills. And even then you still make more sense sitting in another blackbird.
I also agree with the principle here. But we must also deal with the reality of the pilots' skills.
|
Pychian Vanervi
Personal Vendetta
Vendetta Alliance.
|
Posted - 2008.06.25 13:57:00 -
[52]
Ok I am going to start again, just to get this clear in my head... and bare in mind I have not partaken in any FW fleets or even a fight yet.
What sort of fleet warfare are we talking about, the usual sort or the not so usual Missile fleet warfare?
I mean if you are giving advise on how to set up a Caldari fleet would the Rohk be mentioned a lot more, or are the Caldari fleets now happy to get chewed by Turret fleets of the other races?
b]-----------------------------
It's all about the fortune and glory, fortune and glory![/b]
[ |
Rhanna Khurin
|
Posted - 2008.06.25 14:06:00 -
[53]
Random FW blob with everyone flying caracals, kestrels, crows and the like tbh
|
Pychian Vanervi
Personal Vendetta
Vendetta Alliance.
|
Posted - 2008.06.25 14:21:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Rhanna Khurin
Random FW blob with everyone flying caracals, kestrels, crows and the like tbh
So really the only advice to give for Caldari fleets is leave missiles at home?
b]-----------------------------
It's all about the fortune and glory, fortune and glory![/b]
[ |
kill0rbunny
Jagdkommando
RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.06.25 14:25:00 -
[55]
Edited by: kill0rbunny on 25/06/2008 14:26:31
Originally by: Pychian Vanervi
Ok I am going to start again, just to get this clear in my head... and bare in mind I have not partaken in any FW fleets or even a fight yet.
What sort of fleet warfare are we talking about, the usual sort or the not so usual Missile fleet warfare?
I mean if you are giving advise on how to set up a Caldari fleet would the Rohk be mentioned a lot more, or are the Caldari fleets now happy to get chewed by Turret fleets of the other races?
The reasons for using such a fleet setup:
- Skills that most caldari pilots should already have or are able to acquire in a few days of skilling
- Having enough players for each role
- Having three defined ships to use helps avoiding that people brign to much useless crap
You asked about the rokh. It's a good ship overall if the gang you're facing is a sniper fleet, but it uses cap to shoot, so it has less of it for remote repping purposes and it has issues hitting smaller targets even if they are webbed. It also uses all of it's highslots for damage dealing, while the raven does more damage with just six of them and can fit an additional shield transporter and neutralizer.
Therefore the cruise raven is a lot more effective if you don't know what you're facing.
It also is cheaper and I think more caldari militia pilots are capable of flying it.
Originally by: Pychian Vanervi
So really the only advice to give for Caldari fleets is leave missiles at home?
Cruise Missiles are missiles too, aren't they? 
Go places. Kill people. |
Pychian Vanervi
Personal Vendetta
Vendetta Alliance.
|
Posted - 2008.06.25 14:41:00 -
[56]
Originally by: kill0rbunny
Edited by: kill0rbunny on 25/06/2008 14:27:40
Originally by: Pychian Vanervi
My stuff
Stuff.......
Therefore the cruise raven is a lot more effective if you don't know what you're facing.
It also is cheaper and I think more caldari militia pilots are capable of flying it.
Ok understand the part about ability to use stuff but is than an excuse for accepting a rubbish fleet DPS mode? Turrets have always been king and the fact Caldari, by forum admission are getting kicked is because all other races I assume use turrets?
As for the not knowing what you are going to fight, if you have scouts you cover that base.... or again is FW different?
I am only asking and questioning what i think are reasons why, I maybe wrong in my theories. As I am going to be partaking want to know what to expect from my wingmen.
b]-----------------------------
It's all about the fortune and glory, fortune and glory![/b]
[ |
Ulstan
State Protectorate
|
Posted - 2008.06.25 14:50:00 -
[57]
Good post James.
If only there was a way to make this be a sticky in the non existent caldari FW forums or perhaps an MOTD in the caldari militia channel.
Oh and the thread on how to counter nanos too.
|
Ulstan
State Protectorate
|
Posted - 2008.06.25 14:50:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Drachma Golea
Quote:
Raptors:
3x 75mm rails
WTB Raptor with 3 turrets?
I have one I'll sell you for 20m.
|
Gypsio III
Bambooule
|
Posted - 2008.06.25 15:04:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Pychian Vanervi
Originally by: Rhanna Khurin
Random FW blob with everyone flying caracals, kestrels, crows and the like tbh
So really the only advice to give for Caldari fleets is leave missiles at home?
Not quite. Although more rails would help, the problem is more that people are using the wrong missiles. Against fast stuff, the Caracals should be using Precision Lights from AML IIs and, in close-range fights, the Drakes are better off using HAMs. But that's only a fraction of the problem - the lack of ewar, tackle and logistics doesn't help either.
The problem is really one of ship fits and gang composition, rather than weapon systems.
|
Ulstan
State Protectorate
|
Posted - 2008.06.25 15:06:00 -
[60]
Quote:
While thios post is 'win', and I don't agree with all the nano-crap threads, it's funny how only Caldari have to organise to fight effectivelly and others can blob so well.
How is that a surprise? Caldari ships have always been more specialized and fit for gang work than solo work. If you throw a bunch of random ships that are good at soloing into a fleet, they'll at least be moderately effective.
Caldari ships don't work that way - they fulfill rather specific niches and roles and don't tend to be that strong on their own. You need to have a plan and have people bring ships according to the plan and you'll be fine.
|
|
|
|
|
| |
|
| Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5 6 :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |