| Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 :: [one page] |
|
|
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
The Star Fraction
   |
Posted - 2008.06.25 10:57:00 -
[1]
Dear Caldari Militia.
It has come to my attention that you have been sucking entirely too much at PvP, and have been therefore spamming my forums with whine.
I would therefore like to share with you this cunning master plan for 'how not to suck'.
The important point is you start on the fitting screen, and your ship setup. You then need to ensure you've made a fleet, not a blob. You also do not need deadweight in your fleet - bring what you can is acceptable, but don't consider that a substitute for having someone useful. They get to be bait, or maybe a scout if they're not a fool. If someone is a fool, or otherwise refuses to be a team player, you should dispense with them too. Even if it is the FC.
Bring an approximately equal mix of:
Raptors:
3x 75mm rails
1mn MWD, Warp disruptor, web.
Overdrive, 2 nanofibers.
(If you're feeling rich, rig it)
Blackbirds/Falcons/Rooks.
Assault Missile launchers in the highslots (ideally T2 with precisions)
10mn MWD, mix of racial jammers (if you're sure who you're fighting and what they're flying tweak accordingly)
1x SDA, 1x 1600mm plate.
Again, rig if you're feeling rich.
Ravens:
Cruise missile launchers, Heavy neutraliser, large shield transporter.
100mn MWD, 2x LSE, 2x Invuln, Sensor booster (targeting speed)
3x Ballistic controls, 1x damage control, 1x Warded Gravimetric Sensor backup.
Rigs wise, resistance rigs are cheap and good.
Bring remote shield rep drones, and warriors on the Ravens.
Other ships might be acceptable substitutes for some of these - most races interceptors work fine, as do rifters and vigils.
Falcons, Rooks and Scorpions can pretend to be blackbirds with a bigger price tag. (Scorps should be fit to neutralise and shield transfer. They should have a shield hardener or two fit, and a sensor booster to make up for the fact they lock slower than cruisers do)
What you do:
Tackle stuff with the tacklers.
Shoot them with the Ravens.
Jam them with the Blackbirds.
When facing a non-trivially sized enemy:
Blackbirds start jamming targets starting from their letter in the alphabet. If there's multiple people starting with teh same letter, then one jams up, one jams down alphabetically. Match racials wherever you can, if necessary skipping over a few.
Ravens hold formation with each other. Use gang broadcasts (hotkey this) to lock the person getting shot, and repair them with your drones, and shield transporter.
Neut anything hostile that comes close enough, but otherwise rely upon your tacklers.
tacklers: Get a point and web on whatever the FC calls primary, and laugh as a volley of cruise missiles disappear up it's tailpipe and it vanishes.
FC: Call targets. Start with 'interferance' such as recons, ewar ships. Then... hell, you could probably do worse than work through the enemy gang in alphabetical order. If something seems to not be dying, switch target. Call a primary, secondary and tertiary, so all your pilots know what order things are dying in. And appoint a secondary, and tertiary to continue target calling for when you die or have to warp.
--
Crane needs more grid
249km locking? |
James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
The Star Fraction
|
Posted - 2008.06.25 10:57:00 -
[2]
Dear Caldari Militia.
It has come to my attention that you have been sucking entirely too much at PvP, and have been therefore spamming my forums with whine.
I would therefore like to share with you this cunning master plan for 'how not to suck'.
The important point is you start on the fitting screen, and your ship setup. You then need to ensure you've made a fleet, not a blob. You also do not need deadweight in your fleet - bring what you can is acceptable, but don't consider that a substitute for having someone useful. They get to be bait, or maybe a scout if they're not a fool. If someone is a fool, or otherwise refuses to be a team player, you should dispense with them too. Even if it is the FC.
Bring an approximately equal mix of:
Raptors:
3x 75mm rails
1mn MWD, Warp disruptor, web.
Overdrive, 2 nanofibers.
(If you're feeling rich, rig it)
Blackbirds/Falcons/Rooks.
Assault Missile launchers in the highslots (ideally T2 with precisions)
10mn MWD, mix of racial jammers (if you're sure who you're fighting and what they're flying tweak accordingly)
1x SDA, 1x 1600mm plate.
Again, rig if you're feeling rich.
Ravens:
Cruise missile launchers, Heavy neutraliser, large shield transporter.
100mn MWD, 2x LSE, 2x Invuln, Sensor booster (targeting speed)
3x Ballistic controls, 1x damage control, 1x Warded Gravimetric Sensor backup.
Rigs wise, resistance rigs are cheap and good.
Bring remote shield rep drones, and warriors on the Ravens.
Other ships might be acceptable substitutes for some of these - most races interceptors work fine, as do rifters and vigils.
Falcons, Rooks and Scorpions can pretend to be blackbirds with a bigger price tag. (Scorps should be fit to neutralise and shield transfer. They should have a shield hardener or two fit, and a sensor booster to make up for the fact they lock slower than cruisers do)
What you do:
Tackle stuff with the tacklers.
Shoot them with the Ravens.
Jam them with the Blackbirds.
When facing a non-trivially sized enemy:
Blackbirds start jamming targets starting from their letter in the alphabet. If there's multiple people starting with teh same letter, then one jams up, one jams down alphabetically. Match racials wherever you can, if necessary skipping over a few.
Ravens hold formation with each other. Use gang broadcasts (hotkey this) to lock the person getting shot, and repair them with your drones, and shield transporter.
Neut anything hostile that comes close enough, but otherwise rely upon your tacklers.
tacklers: Get a point and web on whatever the FC calls primary, and laugh as a volley of cruise missiles disappear up it's tailpipe and it vanishes.
FC: Call targets. Start with 'interferance' such as recons, ewar ships. Then... hell, you could probably do worse than work through the enemy gang in alphabetical order. If something seems to not be dying, switch target. Call a primary, secondary and tertiary, so all your pilots know what order things are dying in. And appoint a secondary, and tertiary to continue target calling for when you die or have to warp.
--
Crane needs more grid
249km locking? |
Kraleak
Induseng Enterprises
R0ADKILL
|
Posted - 2008.06.25 11:03:00 -
[3]
+1.
Posting in a JAAAMES LYYRUUSSS topic.
 Quote:
Originally by: CCP Prism X
omgomgomgomg....gag me with a SPOON!
Quote:
Originally by: CCP Prism X
devs are tasty treats
|
Kraleak
Induseng Enterprises
R0ADKILL
|
Posted - 2008.06.25 11:03:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Kraleak on 25/06/2008 11:10:40
Edited by: Kraleak on 25/06/2008 11:08:50
+1.
Posting in a JAAAMES LYYRUUSSS topic.
Also, advice for FCs: After you deal with EW, if you are in a small gang (2-3 squads max.) After killing their jammers, you should focus on any recons (other EW - TDs, Damps, Recons), and direct your EW to jam up their DPS, and then you primary their tacklers.
Tacklers are easy to kill, cruicial, and any fleet losing tacklers can't hold much down.
Quote:
Originally by: CCP Prism X
omgomgomgomg....gag me with a SPOON!
Quote:
Originally by: CCP Prism X
devs are tasty treats
|
Neaghan Grebs
State Protectorate
|
Posted - 2008.06.25 11:07:00 -
[5]
Yeah it does seem to be a bit of x up and blob at the moment. Hopefully things will improve, either that or i join a corp running ops so it's easier to find a small gang to play in. 
|
Hoder Daynari
0utbreak
|
Posted - 2008.06.25 11:08:00 -
[6]
I endorse this product !
(dont nerf my nano's plz  )
Btw, if caldari dont know how powerfull a dozen of ravens are with remote shield transporters,
watch IXC House of Prawn 3! link !
|
shanda captison
The Littlest Hobos
|
Posted - 2008.06.25 11:08:00 -
[7]
<3 James
Originally by: James Lyrus
FC: Call targets. Start with 'interferance' such as recons, ewar ships. Then... hell, you could probably do worse than work through the enemy gang in alphabetical order. If something seems to not be dying, switch target. Call a primary, secondary and tertiary, so all your pilots know what order things are dying in. And appoint a secondary, and tertiary to continue target calling for when you die or have to warp.
The Algey tactic tbh! A -> Z! 
Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed dimensions of 400x120 pixels -Sahwoolo Etoophie ([email protected]) |
Rhanna Khurin
|
Posted - 2008.06.25 11:09:00 -
[8]
Good tactics, i approve
|
Sarin Adler
State Protectorate
|
Posted - 2008.06.25 11:17:00 -
[9]
While thios post is 'win', and I don't agree with all the nano-crap threads, it's funny how only Caldari have to organise to fight effectivelly and others can blob so well.
|
northwesten
Trinity Corporate Services
|
Posted - 2008.06.25 11:21:00 -
[10]
I guess i have to give this a try :)
Trinity Corporate Services
|
|
|
Gypsio III
Bambooule
|
Posted - 2008.06.25 11:21:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Gypsio III on 25/06/2008 11:26:24
Bringing 2 or 3 Basilisks will also help to keep your tacklers alive, and it'll take a lot to break the remote-rep circletoss of, say, 3 Basilisks and 5 shield-transferring Ravens, all with ECCM. Even Ospreys have a STA range bonus that will help tacklers close to you.
Do not fit Heavy Missile Launchers on your Caracals. Always fit Assault Missile Launcher IIs with Precision Lights, and train Target Navigation Prediction to IV immediately. Ten Caracals will deliver 50 Precision Lights every 5-6 seconds, hitting an unpimped nanocruiser for full damage. That will hurt. Heavy missiles will not. Use kinetic missiles against Minnie HACs/recons, EM missiles against other races' nanocruisers.
|
Xennith
Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude
Ushra'Khan
|
Posted - 2008.06.25 11:22:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Sarin Adler
While thios post is 'win', and I don't agree with all the nano-crap threads, it's funny how only Caldari have to organise to fight effectivelly and others can blob so well.
caldari have a high proportion of newer players tbh. minmatar have some really great pvpers, as do amarr (even if they are lacking in numbers in certain timezones) and the gallente have some really experienced corps from what i can tell.
from the conversations on SHC and here, it seems that the caldari would benefit most from a poke in the chest with a sharp stick.
We come for our people |
kill0rbunny
Jagdkommando
RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.06.25 11:28:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Sarin Adler
While thios post is 'win', and I don't agree with all the nano-crap threads, it's funny how only Caldari have to organise to fight effectivelly and others can blob so well.
That's because you're easily the worst organized bunch that ever touched the server.
Plz do what the op says and start pwning caldari style.
Go places. Kill people. |
Rhanna Khurin
|
Posted - 2008.06.25 11:31:00 -
[14]
Originally by: kill0rbunny
Originally by: Sarin Adler
While thios post is 'win', and I don't agree with all the nano-crap threads, it's funny how only Caldari have to organise to fight effectivelly and others can blob so well.
That's because you're easily the worst organized bunch that ever touched the server.
Plz do what the op says and start pwning caldari style.
I want your killboard sig lol
|
van Uber
Swedish Aerospace Inc
Firmus Ixion
|
Posted - 2008.06.25 11:58:00 -
[15]
This should be mandatory reading before entering the Caldari Militia.
Excellent post
|
Corewin
Shadow Contingency
|
Posted - 2008.06.25 11:59:00 -
[16]
Originally by: James Lyrus
Dear Caldari Militia.
It has come to my attention that you have been sucking entirely too much at PvP, and have been therefore spamming my forums with whine.
I would therefore like to share with you this cunning master plan for 'how not to suck'.
lol wut?
If you were a panda I would hug you.
|
Elirel
|
Posted - 2008.06.25 12:10:00 -
[17]
Just gather 2 billions and send it as an alliance mail and it will stay there forever. So every noob can read it anytime.
|
Dihania
Mucho Dolor
|
Posted - 2008.06.25 12:13:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Dihania on 25/06/2008 12:13:38
posting in a "how not to suck" by James Lyrus.
I endorse this product
.
EVE: "The Hand-holding Age".
I need isk!Accepting donations.
Renting sig space.Taking various jobs. |
Kelli Flay
|
Posted - 2008.06.25 12:24:00 -
[19]
Got to love these threads where the OPer tries to "educate" people on how to deal with something that is unbalanced because they are so afraid it will get nerfed.
Fail.
|
Tippia
School of Applied Knowledge
|
Posted - 2008.06.25 12:29:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Kelli Flay
Got to love these threads where the OPer tries to "educate" people on how to deal with something that is unbalanced because they are so afraid it will get nerfed.
Fail.
Got to love these threads where responders refuse to take in perfectly useful advice to deal with common threats.
Fail.
|
|
|
Xennith
Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude
Ushra'Khan
|
Posted - 2008.06.25 12:29:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Kelli Flay
Got to love these threads where the OPer tries to "educate" people on how to deal with something that is unbalanced because they are so afraid it will get nerfed.
Fail.
im going to assume that you're talking about nanoships? because the OP didnt mention them.
We come for our people |
Dihania
Mucho Dolor
|
Posted - 2008.06.25 12:32:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Kelli Flay
Got to love these threads where the OPer tries to "educate" people on how to deal with something that is unbalanced because they are so afraid it will get nerfed.
Fail.
reading comprehention FTL.
.
EVE: "The Hand-holding Age".
I need isk!Accepting donations.
Renting sig space.Taking various jobs. |
Kelli Flay
|
Posted - 2008.06.25 12:38:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Dihania
Originally by: Kelli Flay
Got to love these threads where the OPer tries to "educate" people on how to deal with something that is unbalanced because they are so afraid it will get nerfed.
Fail.
reading comprehention FTL.
Mr. Idiot, You should learn how to spell "comprehension" {or at least get a spell checker} before you question someone's ability to comprehend.
|
Kelli Flay
|
Posted - 2008.06.25 12:39:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Xennith
Originally by: Kelli Flay
Got to love these threads where the OPer tries to "educate" people on how to deal with something that is unbalanced because they are so afraid it will get nerfed.
Fail.
im going to assume that you're talking about nanoships? because the OP didnt mention them.
I never said that word here. Paranoid about something? 
Assuming is for idiots btw.
|
Tippia
School of Applied Knowledge
|
Posted - 2008.06.25 12:40:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Kelli Flay
I never said that word here. Paranoid about something?
So what, exactly, is the OP trying to keep from getting nerfed?
|
Xennith
Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude
Ushra'Khan
|
Posted - 2008.06.25 12:43:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Kelli Flay
I never said that word here. Paranoid about something?
Assuming is for idiots btw.
your post history displays a lot of complaints about nanos being broken, but im willing to admit when im wrong. so please. enlighten me, what exactly do you think is broken and being defended in this thread if it is not nanos?
We come for our people |
Pychian Vanervi
Personal Vendetta
Vendetta Alliance.
|
Posted - 2008.06.25 12:43:00 -
[27]
I am just posting in the first thread I have fully read about FW.
Caldari sucking, is that just an obvious statement no matter how big the blob? Caldari ships make up maybe 10-15% of PvP compared to the other races. So shows they have to contend with harder ships to use and thus Noobs and more experienced alike are going to end up with a lesser fleet.
I am not 100% sure of the rules of engagement yet and what can be used but if its just racial ship types then no wonder Caldari suck.
Pick any ship class and place Caldari in the top 2-3 I am sure it cant be done... prove me wrong happy to accept.
I am about to join this fray and just see what fun it will be.... if any at all, so reading up about my sucky faction.
b]-----------------------------
It's all about the fortune and glory, fortune and glory![/b]
[ |
Xennith
Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude
Ushra'Khan
|
Posted - 2008.06.25 12:46:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Pychian Vanervi
Pick any ship class and place Caldari in the top 2-3 I am sure it cant be done... prove me wrong happy to accept.
Recons:
Falcon,
Rapier,
everything else.
Interceptors:
Crow,
Taranis,
Stilleto,
We come for our people |
Kelli Flay
|
Posted - 2008.06.25 12:47:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Xennith
Originally by: Kelli Flay
I never said that word here. Paranoid about something?
Assuming is for idiots btw.
your post history displays a lot of complaints about nanos being broken, but im willing to admit when im wrong. so please. enlighten me, what exactly do you think is broken and being defended in this thread if it is not nanos?
Huh? You need the original post explained to you? I don't understand what your malfunction is.
Its a good thing you looked up my post history as well.
|
Kirana Si
House of Lubrication
|
Posted - 2008.06.25 12:49:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Kirana Si on 25/06/2008 12:49:34
Originally by: Kelli Flay
Originally by: Xennith
Originally by: Kelli Flay
I never said that word here. Paranoid about something?
Assuming is for idiots btw.
your post history displays a lot of complaints about nanos being broken, but im willing to admit when im wrong. so please. enlighten me, what exactly do you think is broken and being defended in this thread if it is not nanos?
Huh? You need the original post explained to you? I don't understand what your malfunction is.
Its a good thing you looked up my post history as well.
Why dont you lose a Caracal over it ?
|
|
|
Gypsio III
Bambooule
|
Posted - 2008.06.25 12:49:00 -
[31]
Quote:
Pick any ship class and place Caldari in the top 2-3 I am sure it cant be done... prove me wrong happy to accept.
Best cruiser: Blackbird
Best battlecruiser: Drake
Best battleship: Scorpion
Best recon: Falcon
|
Xennith
Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude
Ushra'Khan
|
Posted - 2008.06.25 12:51:00 -
[32]
No, the OP i understand. Its good advice on a couple of very useful setups and how they could be used together effectively, towards the goal of increasing the ability of the caldari militia to fight without forming large fleets (blobs).
This is the post i dont understand:
Originally by: Kelli Flay
Got to love these threads where the OPer tries to "educate" people on how to deal with something that is unbalanced because they are so afraid it will get nerfed.
Fail.
because i assumed that you were on an anti-nano whine. apparently i was wrong. please enlighten me, what is so unbalanced and being protected from its just nerfing?
We come for our people |
Drachma Golea
hunter killers
|
Posted - 2008.06.25 12:57:00 -
[33]
Quote:
Raptors:
3x 75mm rails
WTB Raptor with 3 turrets?
|
Pychian Vanervi
Personal Vendetta
Vendetta Alliance.
|
Posted - 2008.06.25 13:00:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Xennith
Originally by: Pychian Vanervi
Pick any ship class and place Caldari in the top 2-3 I am sure it cant be done... prove me wrong happy to accept.
Recons:
Falcon,
Rapier,
everything else.
Interceptors:
Crow,
Taranis,
Stilleto,
Ok maybe the falcon, but thats a perspective thing.
Crow I will disagree with and say the ranis is best with claw and sader easily able to out gun and perform the crow.
For the guy about the Scorp, not sure what constitutes best but the ability to fit EW doesnt really make it the best. Back in the day maybe but if it was the best more would be seen in fleets.
b]-----------------------------
It's all about the fortune and glory, fortune and glory![/b]
[ |
Gypsio III
Bambooule
|
Posted - 2008.06.25 13:05:00 -
[35]
Quote:
Back in the day maybe but if it was the best more would be seen in fleets
Unfortunately people don't think like this. They tend to bring what is best for themselves, rather than what is best for their gang. Scorps always get primaried, and for good reason, so, in general, people dislike flying them.
Disregarding human nature, the maths is clear. A Scorpion removes enemy DPS more efficiently than any other battleship. This is most clearly manifested in a typical fleet sniper action, but still holds true on smaller scales.
|
Tippia
School of Applied Knowledge
|
Posted - 2008.06.25 13:06:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Drachma Golea
WTB Raptor with 3 turrets?
Try the market.
It's under Ships -> Interceptors -> Caldari.
Sells for roughly 7mil in my region.
|
Lorna Loot
Nox Eternus
|
Posted - 2008.06.25 13:06:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Drachma Golea
Quote:
Raptors:
3x 75mm rails
WTB Raptor with 3 turrets?
WTS: Show Info button.
|
RuleoftheBone
Ataraxia.
|
Posted - 2008.06.25 13:07:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Kelli Flay
Got to love these threads where the OPer tries to "educate" people on how to deal with something that is unbalanced because they are so afraid it will get nerfed.
Fail.
Goodness knows why you might try the OP fits/tactics and prove him wrong first. Which you won't by the way.
Far easier to toss out "fail" I suppose.
I am sure some of the Caldari folks might be appreciative.
"Lead Me..Follow Me..Or get the **** out of my way"
General George Patton USA
|
Esmenet
|
Posted - 2008.06.25 13:11:00 -
[39]
Edited by: Esmenet on 25/06/2008 13:11:17
Originally by: Kelli Flay
Got to love these threads where the OPer tries to "educate" people on how to deal with something that is unbalanced because they are so afraid it will get nerfed.
Fail.
Yes you better stick to the blobs of caracals and passive tanked drakes where the true power of caldari is...
|
Kraleak
Induseng Enterprises
R0ADKILL
|
Posted - 2008.06.25 13:13:00 -
[40]
Edited by: Kraleak on 25/06/2008 13:14:21
Originally by: Drachma Golea
Quote:
Raptors:
3x 75mm rails
WTB Raptor with 3 turrets?
It has 3 Turret Hardpoints.
Originally by: Xennith
Originally by: Pychian Vanervi
Valid statement +1.
Recons:
Words.
Ok maybe the falcon, but thats a perspective thing.
More words, words words, claw (No webs are bad mmkay. People thinking to not fit a web on an inty and fit a Cap Recharger are what causes nano whines) and sader (See: Claw, also makes babies cry.) easily able to out gun and perform the crow.
For the guy about the Scorp, not sure what constitutes best but the ability to fit EW doesnt really make it the best. Back in the day maybe but if it was the best more would be seen in fleets.
I don't know what idea you think an Interceptor should be doing in fleets, but DPS is definately not one of them. Its meant to tackle, not 1v1 and "pwnerise noobs".
For the record, best Inty is the Ares with its sexy 3/3/4. Fit full tackle and nice nano lows.
As for the Scorp, the fact that its the only EW Battleship Hull (Widow) makes it infinitely more useful than any other battleship. No gankathron can gank something if its jammed.
Quote:
Originally by: CCP Prism X
omgomgomgomg....gag me with a SPOON!
Quote:
Originally by: CCP Prism X
devs are tasty treats
|
|
|
Xennith
Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude
Ushra'Khan
|
Posted - 2008.06.25 13:14:00 -
[41]
Pychian, i think the fact that its arguable proves the point really, Caldari have some absolutely fantastic ships. The problem is that Caldari ships are very role specific, ship X excels at task Y and god help you if you want it to do Z as well. As such caldari ships fit into gangs very well (excluding RR gangs) but cant really solo as easily as other races do.
Take the Rokh for example (personal favorite), you can have more EHPS than a Megathron with comparible blaster damage at much longer ranges. But god help you if you try to fit a point, web, MWD and cap booster on it.
We come for our people |
Rhanna Khurin
|
Posted - 2008.06.25 13:19:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Gypsio III
Quote:
Pick any ship class and place Caldari in the top 2-3 I am sure it cant be done... prove me wrong happy to accept.
Best cruiser: Blackbird
Best battlecruiser: Drake
Best battleship: Scorpion
Best recon: Falcon
Best PvP battlecruiser certainly isnt the drake, i think the Ferox rounds out a caldari fleet better than that. sure maybe a couple of Drakes, but who needs a bait ship in a blob?
|
Esmenet
|
Posted - 2008.06.25 13:22:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Rhanna Khurin
Best PvP battlecruiser certainly isnt the drake, i think the Ferox rounds out a caldari fleet better than that. sure maybe a couple of Drakes, but who needs a bait ship in a blob?
The drake is actually a great pvp battlecruiser, its just that you are so used to seeing people flying it in a PVE fit that sucks.
|
Kraleak
Induseng Enterprises
R0ADKILL
|
Posted - 2008.06.25 13:23:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Esmenet
Originally by: Rhanna Khurin
Words.
The drake is actually a great pvp battlecruiser, its just that you are so used to seeing people flying it in a PVE fit that sucks.
This is true. HAM drake much? It has alot of potential, just need to think out of the box.
Quote:
Originally by: CCP Prism X
omgomgomgomg....gag me with a SPOON!
Quote:
Originally by: CCP Prism X
devs are tasty treats
|
Mila Prestoc
|
Posted - 2008.06.25 13:24:00 -
[45]
People won't admit James is right because that means admitting they suck, its much easier to just blame the game or "OMG YOU HACK!" like loads do in first person shooters.
Caldari have great gang ships, i'd say there whole design philosophy is to gang warfare so if you can't use them right don't blame the game.
-------------------------
Originally by: "Lord Violent"
EvE is slowly becoming a game for the stupid, catered to by devs as they lack ability to kill/survive anything.
|
Gypsio III
Bambooule
|
Posted - 2008.06.25 13:27:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Esmenet
Originally by: Rhanna Khurin
Best PvP battlecruiser certainly isnt the drake, i think the Ferox rounds out a caldari fleet better than that. sure maybe a couple of Drakes, but who needs a bait ship in a blob?
The drake is actually a great pvp battlecruiser, its just that you are so used to seeing people flying it in a PVE fit that sucks.
Damn right. I'm not training HAM Spec V for nothing.
Although I agree with your comment that a sniper Ferox is better suited for dealing damage to fast-movers at medium range.
|
Rhanna Khurin
|
Posted - 2008.06.25 13:32:00 -
[47]
There's already enough peeps firing missiles about willy-nilly, some rail support would go a long way to back it up.
Thats why i think Ferox is a better pvp ship
(just to clarify my previous statement)
|
kill0rbunny
Jagdkommando
RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.06.25 13:40:00 -
[48]
Edited by: kill0rbunny on 25/06/2008 13:42:56
Tbh, neither the ferox nor the drake fit in the shown gang concept, as both of them fill no real role that cannot be fulfilled by the three mentioned ships.
The lifetime of the raptors is totally dependant on the sheer jamming power of the blackbirds.
The drake can be used as a damage dealer if you are short on BOTH money and jamming skills.
But it will never ever perform as great as the raven does for slaughtering ships of any given ship size, hence the spidertanking ability and the range heavy neutralizers provide.
Ferox unfortunately does crap overall damage unless you have perfect gunnery skills.
And even then you still make more sense sitting in another blackbird.
When you use the raven with the given fitting and are lucky enough to have buddies do the same, your chances of losing a ship are extremely low. And even if you do, you lose about 20 Million after insurance.
That's extremely cost effective. For what it can do.
Go places. Kill people. |
Tippia
School of Applied Knowledge
|
Posted - 2008.06.25 13:43:00 -
[49]
Edited by: Tippia on 25/06/2008 13:43:42
Originally by: kill0rbunny
Tbh, neither the ferox nor the drake fit in the shown gang concept, as both of them fill no real role that cannot be fulfilled by the three mentioned ships.
Warfare links?
Or, put another way: what do you define as a "real role?"
|
kill0rbunny
Jagdkommando
RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.06.25 13:45:00 -
[50]
Edited by: kill0rbunny on 25/06/2008 13:46:26
Edited by: kill0rbunny on 25/06/2008 13:45:31
Originally by: Tippia
Warfare links?
Yeah, I must admit that's a possible option, the only one that actually makes sense, tbh.
But even then you only need one or two of those in a 100 man fleet.
Basilisk would be an ship that would be great too for keeping the others alive, at least if you have two of them.
Go places. Kill people. |
|
|
Gypsio III
Bambooule
|
Posted - 2008.06.25 13:53:00 -
[51]
Edited by: Gypsio III on 25/06/2008 13:54:18
Originally by: Rhanna Khurin
There's already enough peeps firing missiles about willy-nilly, some rail support would go a long way to back it up.
Thats why i think Ferox is a better pvp ship
(just to clarify my previous statement)
Well, it's situational, isn't it? In a close range shoot-out, HAM Drake has an excellent combination of DPS, tackle and tank. It may not have the DPS of a gank Harbinger or Brutix - but it has more EHP and projects and delivers its DPS more easily. It's far superior to blaster Ferox.
On the other hand, when fighting nanos, I agree that I'd rather have a Ferox squad. Or a Blackbird/Scorpion/Raven squad. Although that doesn't mean the HAM/HM Drakes are useless. If a tackler can hold a web on a nanocruiser for a few seconds, they still have the ability to deliver respectable DPS at useful ranges. Especially if there's a line of missiles already chasing the tackled target. From my experience, the FW blob hasn't really had the tacklers, or the ability to keep them alive, to make this work, though.
Quote:
Tbh, neither the ferox nor the drake fit in the shown gang concept, as both of them fill no real role that cannot be fulfilled by the three mentioned ships.
The lifetime of the raptors is totally dependant on the sheer jamming power of the blackbirds. The drake can be used as a damage dealer if you are short on BOTH money and jamming skills. But it will never ever perform as great as the raven does for slaughtering ships of any given ship size, hence the spidertanking ability and the range heavy neutralizers provide. Ferox unfortunately does crap overall damage unless you have perfect gunnery skills. And even then you still make more sense sitting in another blackbird.
I also agree with the principle here. But we must also deal with the reality of the pilots' skills.
|
Pychian Vanervi
Personal Vendetta
Vendetta Alliance.
|
Posted - 2008.06.25 13:57:00 -
[52]
Ok I am going to start again, just to get this clear in my head... and bare in mind I have not partaken in any FW fleets or even a fight yet.
What sort of fleet warfare are we talking about, the usual sort or the not so usual Missile fleet warfare?
I mean if you are giving advise on how to set up a Caldari fleet would the Rohk be mentioned a lot more, or are the Caldari fleets now happy to get chewed by Turret fleets of the other races?
b]-----------------------------
It's all about the fortune and glory, fortune and glory![/b]
[ |
Rhanna Khurin
|
Posted - 2008.06.25 14:06:00 -
[53]
Random FW blob with everyone flying caracals, kestrels, crows and the like tbh
|
Pychian Vanervi
Personal Vendetta
Vendetta Alliance.
|
Posted - 2008.06.25 14:21:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Rhanna Khurin
Random FW blob with everyone flying caracals, kestrels, crows and the like tbh
So really the only advice to give for Caldari fleets is leave missiles at home?
b]-----------------------------
It's all about the fortune and glory, fortune and glory![/b]
[ |
kill0rbunny
Jagdkommando
RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.06.25 14:25:00 -
[55]
Edited by: kill0rbunny on 25/06/2008 14:26:31
Originally by: Pychian Vanervi
Ok I am going to start again, just to get this clear in my head... and bare in mind I have not partaken in any FW fleets or even a fight yet.
What sort of fleet warfare are we talking about, the usual sort or the not so usual Missile fleet warfare?
I mean if you are giving advise on how to set up a Caldari fleet would the Rohk be mentioned a lot more, or are the Caldari fleets now happy to get chewed by Turret fleets of the other races?
The reasons for using such a fleet setup:
- Skills that most caldari pilots should already have or are able to acquire in a few days of skilling
- Having enough players for each role
- Having three defined ships to use helps avoiding that people brign to much useless crap
You asked about the rokh. It's a good ship overall if the gang you're facing is a sniper fleet, but it uses cap to shoot, so it has less of it for remote repping purposes and it has issues hitting smaller targets even if they are webbed. It also uses all of it's highslots for damage dealing, while the raven does more damage with just six of them and can fit an additional shield transporter and neutralizer.
Therefore the cruise raven is a lot more effective if you don't know what you're facing.
It also is cheaper and I think more caldari militia pilots are capable of flying it.
Originally by: Pychian Vanervi
So really the only advice to give for Caldari fleets is leave missiles at home?
Cruise Missiles are missiles too, aren't they? 
Go places. Kill people. |
Pychian Vanervi
Personal Vendetta
Vendetta Alliance.
|
Posted - 2008.06.25 14:41:00 -
[56]
Originally by: kill0rbunny
Edited by: kill0rbunny on 25/06/2008 14:27:40
Originally by: Pychian Vanervi
My stuff
Stuff.......
Therefore the cruise raven is a lot more effective if you don't know what you're facing.
It also is cheaper and I think more caldari militia pilots are capable of flying it.
Ok understand the part about ability to use stuff but is than an excuse for accepting a rubbish fleet DPS mode? Turrets have always been king and the fact Caldari, by forum admission are getting kicked is because all other races I assume use turrets?
As for the not knowing what you are going to fight, if you have scouts you cover that base.... or again is FW different?
I am only asking and questioning what i think are reasons why, I maybe wrong in my theories. As I am going to be partaking want to know what to expect from my wingmen.
b]-----------------------------
It's all about the fortune and glory, fortune and glory![/b]
[ |
Ulstan
State Protectorate
|
Posted - 2008.06.25 14:50:00 -
[57]
Good post James.
If only there was a way to make this be a sticky in the non existent caldari FW forums or perhaps an MOTD in the caldari militia channel.
Oh and the thread on how to counter nanos too.
|
Ulstan
State Protectorate
|
Posted - 2008.06.25 14:50:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Drachma Golea
Quote:
Raptors:
3x 75mm rails
WTB Raptor with 3 turrets?
I have one I'll sell you for 20m.
|
Gypsio III
Bambooule
|
Posted - 2008.06.25 15:04:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Pychian Vanervi
Originally by: Rhanna Khurin
Random FW blob with everyone flying caracals, kestrels, crows and the like tbh
So really the only advice to give for Caldari fleets is leave missiles at home?
Not quite. Although more rails would help, the problem is more that people are using the wrong missiles. Against fast stuff, the Caracals should be using Precision Lights from AML IIs and, in close-range fights, the Drakes are better off using HAMs. But that's only a fraction of the problem - the lack of ewar, tackle and logistics doesn't help either.
The problem is really one of ship fits and gang composition, rather than weapon systems.
|
Ulstan
State Protectorate
|
Posted - 2008.06.25 15:06:00 -
[60]
Quote:
While thios post is 'win', and I don't agree with all the nano-crap threads, it's funny how only Caldari have to organise to fight effectivelly and others can blob so well.
How is that a surprise? Caldari ships have always been more specialized and fit for gang work than solo work. If you throw a bunch of random ships that are good at soloing into a fleet, they'll at least be moderately effective.
Caldari ships don't work that way - they fulfill rather specific niches and roles and don't tend to be that strong on their own. You need to have a plan and have people bring ships according to the plan and you'll be fine.
|
|
|
Ishquar Teh'Sainte
Tri Optimum
Ev0ke
|
Posted - 2008.06.25 15:24:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Pychian Vanervi
Ok understand the part about ability to use stuff but is than an excuse for accepting a rubbish fleet DPS mode? Turrets have always been king and the fact Caldari, by forum admission are getting kicked is because all other races I assume use turrets?
As for the not knowing what you are going to fight, if you have scouts you cover that base.... or again is FW different?
what i gathered on the forums, the main reason for the bad performance of the caldari militia is that they suck at PvP tactics. they seem quite unorganized. also seems they have a different pvper/pve'er ratio than the other factions. so you have quite alot of people that are used to mission combat, not knowing that PvP doesn't mean to deal another damage type and use some different hardeners.
so you have lots of people specced in caldari missile ships.
all weapon systems have their own tactics. james showed one of the available tactics for caldari based on missiles and EW.
at the scouting stuff .. well i wouldn't be surprised if some of the scouts have no clue what they are doing. another reason is - FW is happening in a quite small area. so you're not running into one single gang, but several gangs in short succession ... maybe even using different setups/tactics.
___________________
-Skellibjalla- Life is a garden of perceptions. Pick your fruit.
|
baltec1
Antares Shipyards
|
Posted - 2008.06.25 15:30:00 -
[62]
Edited by: baltec1 on 25/06/2008 15:33:27
Originally by: Kirana Si
Edited by: Kirana Si on 25/06/2008 12:49:34
Originally by: Kelli Flay
Originally by: Xennith
Originally by: Kelli Flay
I never said that word here. Paranoid about something?
Assuming is for idiots btw.
your post history displays a lot of complaints about nanos being broken, but im willing to admit when im wrong. so please. enlighten me, what exactly do you think is broken and being defended in this thread if it is not nanos?
Huh? You need the original post explained to you? I don't understand what your malfunction is.
Its a good thing you looked up my post history as well.
Why dont you lose a Caracal over it ?
too late
|
Pychian Vanervi
Personal Vendetta
Vendetta Alliance.
|
Posted - 2008.06.25 15:56:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Ishquar Teh'Sainte
Originally by: Pychian Vanervi
My waffle
what i gathered on the forums, the main reason for the bad performance of the caldari militia is that they suck at PvP tactics. they seem quite unorganized. also seems they have a different pvper/pve'er ratio than the other factions. so you have quite alot of people that are used to mission combat, not knowing that PvP doesn't mean to deal another damage type and use some different hardeners.
so you have lots of people specced in caldari missile ships.
all weapon systems have their own tactics. james showed one of the available tactics for caldari based on missiles and EW.
at the scouting stuff .. well i wouldn't be surprised if some of the scouts have no clue what they are doing. another reason is - FW is happening in a quite small area. so you're not running into one single gang, but several gangs in short succession ... maybe even using different setups/tactics.
So I guess education and organisation is the key. I am quite looking forward to joining the fray, Not some PvP genius but nothing like a challenge.
b]-----------------------------
It's all about the fortune and glory, fortune and glory![/b]
[ |
Rhanna Khurin
|
Posted - 2008.06.25 16:00:00 -
[64]
Originally by: baltec1
too late
standard missile launchers? For shame!
|
baltec1
Antares Shipyards
|
Posted - 2008.06.25 16:09:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Rhanna Khurin
Originally by: baltec1
too late
standard missile launchers? For shame!
yea, my missiles skills suck, kinda ironic for someone in the CM...
|
James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
The Star Fraction
|
Posted - 2008.06.25 16:55:00 -
[66]
Edited by: James Lyrus on 25/06/2008 16:58:36
Originally by: Pychian Vanervi
So I guess education and organisation is the key. I am quite looking forward to joining the fray, Not some PvP genius but nothing like a challenge.
EVE is not a space combat game. It's a strategy game. Planning, education and organisation are always the key. Know thyself - strengths and weaknesses. Take advantage of the strengths in the individual ship, and use the fleet to shore up the weaknesses.
PvP is very rarely about the limited scope of 1 ship, or 1 pilot vs. another. Sometimes, granted. But not often.
I've been PvPing (almost) exclusively in Caldari ships for a while now. I remain firm in my assertion that they are not bad at all. They are specialised. They are more efficient than the alternatives, when dedicated to a role. They are less efficient than the alternatives when you try and get every ship to do a bit of everything.
If you take advantage of that specialism, you have a fleet full of ships working at high efficiency. All else being equal, that fleet _will_ win. But when you get together a blob of 'whatever you've got in the hangar' then you have a load of ships that are operating at lower efficiency, and will lose.
Sadly, for better or for worse, the Caldari milita resembles this latter case.
I aimed to outline _one_ way in which 3 fairly simple and easy to acquire ship combinations would mesh together to exploit some good synergies between ship types. Having thought about it a bit, I think the Blackbirds (Falcons/Rooks) could do with probably a sensor booster, to increase their ECM sphere of influcence.
There's many possible options. I simply wanted to extend the view that the formation of a Caldari heavy fleet has to continue beyond the fitting screen, into the gang elements.
--
Crane needs more grid
249km locking? |
James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
The Star Fraction
|
Posted - 2008.06.25 17:18:00 -
[67]
Edited by: James Lyrus on 25/06/2008 17:18:37
Originally by: Pychian Vanervi
Pick any ship class and place Caldari in the top 2-3 I am sure it cant be done... prove me wrong happy to accept.
Frigates: Well, no tacklers here. But the Griffin is pretty fantastic, if used right. Lacking somewhat on tackle frigates though. Then again, Minmatar frigate 3 doesn't take long.
Destroyers: Both Cormorant and Thrasher are good at different things. Cormorant can hit at 95km with 150mm rails, which is no mean feat (and fantastic for slaughtering small ships)
Interceptors: Crow's right near the top of the list. For fleet use, it's very solid too, since it's fast, and has the required 3 midslots.
Electronic Attack Ships: Kitsune is a solid contender. Does something different to the Hyena, but both are a notch above the Keres and Sentinel.
Recon ships: Falcon is superb, and probably at the top of the class right now. Rapier's not far behind though, and the Curse deserves a mention. These are a cut above the rest.
HACs: Well, these ships are all very different. Cerberus and Eagle can outrange battleships. As generalised roamers, they're not that stunning, but as fleet elements they're really superb.
Heavy Interdictors: Onyx can do the heavy interdictor thing. It can shield tank phenomenally well. And it can fit a probe launcher.
Battlecruisers: Drake is a 600dps, 72k ehp badass. It can also swap damage types, and not use much cap. I hear it's also ok for missioning.
Command Ships: Well, again, it depends. For a short range gank ship, no, Caldari don't do well here. But the Vulture is a solid contender for fleet use - it can hit at ~200km with it's railguns, allowing it to snipe with the battleships _and_ do it's ganglink thing.
Battleships: For PvP, there's the Scorpion, Rokh, and Raven all coming out as 'really good'. Wait, that's all of them. Erm. Bit harder again, since there's a lot of diversity in what battleships can do.
Scorpion is the top (well, ok, only) ewar battleship. Which is nice in a fleet.
Raven is a horrendous torpedo monster of doom as a close range damage platform. If you apply some thought, cruise missile spamming doom can work, but be wary of it's limitations. (It's really the only ship that can do this)
Rokh is about the best sniper there is.
Dreadnoughts: Well, there's not a _lot_ between them. Phoenix has reasons to fly it though - being able to swap damage types is pretty nice when POS bashing. Revelation and Moros probably come out ahead here though (Is in the top 3, when there's only 4 of them ok? :))
Carriers: Archon comes out ahead, but Chimeras tank really hard, and have shield resists and remote rep power. When adequately supported, that makes them horrendous - they only really lose out to Archons because _most_ people armour tank in PvP.
Motherships: Same really.
Logistics: Guardian and Basilisk are really great when you have multiple - cap transferring and buddy repping (e.g. in a fleet of any size). Oneiros and Scimitar are good when you have just one in a roaming/speed gang.
Industrials: Well, battle badgers are pretty scary. Mammoth might come out ahead, but 6 mids is pretty compelling.
DSTs: Caldari one shield tanks, so can tank _and_ cargo expand.
Freighters: Charon has the biggest cargo. Freighters might as well only have one stat.
--
Crane needs more grid
249km locking? |
RuleoftheBone
Ataraxia.
|
Posted - 2008.06.25 17:28:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Pychian Vanervi
So I guess education and organisation is the key. I am quite looking forward to joining the fray, Not some PvP genius but nothing like a challenge.
Bingo. You win most EvE fights prior to undocking  .
Its winning what you are NOT prepared for that takes you up to the "next level".
"Lead Me..Follow Me..Or get the **** out of my way"
General George Patton USA
|
James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
The Star Fraction
|
Posted - 2008.06.25 19:19:00 -
[69]
Originally by: RuleoftheBone
Originally by: Pychian Vanervi
So I guess education and organisation is the key. I am quite looking forward to joining the fray, Not some PvP genius but nothing like a challenge.
Bingo. You win most EvE fights prior to undocking .
Its winning what you are NOT prepared for that takes you up to the "next level".
Oh yes. But preparing to deal with the unexpected is also useful.
--
Crane needs more grid
249km locking? |
Sarin Adler
State Protectorate
|
Posted - 2008.06.25 21:43:00 -
[70]
Originally by: kill0rbunny
Originally by: Sarin Adler
While thios post is 'win', and I don't agree with all the nano-crap threads, it's funny how only Caldari have to organise to fight effectivelly and others can blob so well.
That's because you're easily the worst organized bunch that ever touched the server.
Plz do what the op says and start pwning caldari style.
That's pretty much bs and you missinterpreted me. I mean that other factions, which are as unorganised as caldari a lot of times can be much more effective. That means that other races have more potential & survivality than its caldari counterparts, while caldari ships may be more effective in a organised fleet vs fleet encounter.
This translates very bad into FW enviorenment where blobs are not fitted for effectiviness but each one brings what he wants. But anyway, there are some nice fleets which at least have some better organisation, the noobery will go and things will get better.
p.s: I agree though that probably a lot of people fit their ships like crap
|
|
|
James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
The Star Fraction
|
Posted - 2008.06.25 22:04:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Sarin Adler
Originally by: kill0rbunny
Originally by: Sarin Adler
While thios post is 'win', and I don't agree with all the nano-crap threads, it's funny how only Caldari have to organise to fight effectivelly and others can blob so well.
That's because you're easily the worst organized bunch that ever touched the server.
Plz do what the op says and start pwning caldari style.
That's pretty much bs and you missinterpreted me. I mean that other factions, which are as unorganised as caldari a lot of times can be much more effective. That means that other races have more potential & survivality than its caldari counterparts, while caldari ships may be more effective in a organised fleet vs fleet encounter.
This translates very bad into FW enviorenment where blobs are not fitted for effectiviness but each one brings what he wants. But anyway, there are some nice fleets which at least have some better organisation, the noobery will go and things will get better.
p.s: I agree though that probably a lot of people fit their ships like crap
It's a tradeoff. You get less efficient in a blob, and more efficient in a fleet. Personally it's the kind of tradeoff I find interesting.
--
Crane needs more grid
249km locking? |
Oftherocks
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
|
Posted - 2008.06.25 22:43:00 -
[72]
When did you join Star Fraction? As a member of Star Fraction shouldn't you want the Caldari militia (and all other militias) to suck at pvp (and everything else)?
|
James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
The Star Fraction
|
Posted - 2008.06.25 23:08:00 -
[73]
Edited by: James Lyrus on 25/06/2008 23:09:06
Originally by: Oftherocks
When did you join Star Fraction? As a member of Star Fraction shouldn't you want the Caldari militia (and all other militias) to suck at pvp (and everything else)?
If this were IGS and therefore IC, I'd probably give you an answer that boiled down to 'large scale losses and attrition are more useful than getting demoralised, parking in a station and getting rolled over'.
But it's not, so instead I'll say this:
I'm fed up of seeing 4 threads a day saying 'Caldari suck'.
I want more people to have fun playing EVE.
I want more cool vids that have homogenous fleets fighting each other.
I want more people to learn how to PvP and enjoy it - one day I'll see them in space. Either on my side, or someone elses, matters less than us both enjoying the fight.
And I want to see more tactical development. Militias present a fascinating opportunity for this - it's very rare to see gangs that are not thoroughly mixed, and thus all constrained by the 'average'. Rokhs in a mixed fleet, can't really be used effectively beyond the shortest sniper range.
But with an all Caldari fleet, you have a chance to pick your own average, to actually use a Rokh sniper group, or a Chimera circle tank, without having to bow to the same pressures.
--
Crane needs more grid
249km locking? |
Oftherocks
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
|
Posted - 2008.06.26 00:35:00 -
[74]
Fair enough.
|
Dex Nederland
Lai Dai Infinity Systems
|
Posted - 2008.06.26 01:01:00 -
[75]
Thanks James.
|
SellYourPoppa
|
Posted - 2008.06.26 08:11:00 -
[76]
The biggest problem with caldari militias getting kills against the gallente scum is the lack of capable caldari tacklers... In a mixed fleet forcing caldari to do tackle = fail. But for an all caldari fleet against gallente we still have some options :
1. Heavy tacklers
Only two ships qualify for the job:
[Scorpion, heavy tackler]
Damage Control II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
100MN MicroWarpdrive II
Warp Disruptor II
Stasis Webifier II
Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
Invulnerability Field II
Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II
ECM - Ion Field Projector II
ZW-4100 Siege Missile Bay, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Torpedo
ZW-4100 Siege Missile Bay, Caldari Navy Inferno Torpedo
ZW-4100 Siege Missile Bay, Caldari Navy Inferno Torpedo
ZW-4100 Siege Missile Bay, Caldari Navy Juggernaut Torpedo
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]
Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I
Few caldari militias have the electronics skills SPs and experience to fly an electronic scopion effectively(and those should fly electronic ships - a caldari fleet without solid jamming = fail ,but in order to get kills you also need tackle. This contraption has about 100k EHP(max skills bit harder to fit than the mega-3% PG implant might be required), handles slightly better than the mega(can keep at range). Pitiful DPS but its still a scorpion(can jam one target).
Enemy confusion (target priority) might give friendly jamming Scorpions more time to do their thing...
The armor plates + EANII could be swapped for 3x BCUs to raise DPS near decent levels at cost of survivability....
NEXT the HAM active drake
[Drake, tackler + DPS]
Beta Reactor Control: Reaction Control I
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
10MN MicroWarpdrive II
X5 Prototype I Engine Enervator
Stasis Webifier II
Medium Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
Invulnerability Field II
Invulnerability Field II
XT-2800 Heavy Assault Missile Launcher I, Caldari Navy Torrent Assault Missile
XT-2800 Heavy Assault Missile Launcher I, Caldari Navy Torrent Assault Missile
XT-2800 Heavy Assault Missile Launcher I, Guristas Fulmination Assault Missile
XT-2800 Heavy Assault Missile Launcher I, Caldari Navy Torrent Assault Missile
XT-2800 Heavy Assault Missile Launcher I, Caldari Navy Torrent Assault Missile
XT-2800 Heavy Assault Missile Launcher I, Caldari Navy Torrent Assault Missile
XT-2800 Heavy Assault Missile Launcher I, Caldari Navy Hellfire Assault Missile
[empty high slot]
Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I
around 40k EHP , decent DPS (350 <) , year lights in PVP performance
from the PVE passive tanking monster
2. Medium tacklers
two options here, less than spectacular , nonetheless effective in numbers (we have numbers on our side right ? :) ). Those setups lack damage and survivability so convincing people to fly them might be hard ...
[Moa, moa tackle]
Damage Control II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
10MN MicroWarpdrive II
Stasis Webifier II
Warp Scrambler II
Large Shield Extender II
150mm Prototype I Gauss Gun, Antimatter Charge S
150mm Prototype I Gauss Gun, Antimatter Charge S
150mm Prototype I Gauss Gun, Antimatter Charge S
150mm Prototype I Gauss Gun, Antimatter Charge S
150mm Prototype I Gauss Gun, Antimatter Charge S
SV-2000 Assault Missile Bay, Sabretooth Light Missile
Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
[empty rig slot]
[empty rig slot]
Hobgoblin I x3
Eats drones and frigates for breakfast(at close range), Around 17k EHP...
|
el M
Romanian Space Explorer
|
Posted - 2008.06.26 08:12:00 -
[77]
ups, posted first part with the alt :) ...
-----------------
aspiring carebear |
Astria Tiphareth
|
Posted - 2008.06.26 08:19:00 -
[78]
Nicely written. Now do one for the Amarr on how to face a numerically superior foe 
___
My views may not represent those of my corporation or alliance, which is why I never get invited to those diplomatic parties... |
el M
Romanian Space Explorer
|
Posted - 2008.06.26 08:32:00 -
[79]
hit and run - guerrilla warfare ? (against the matari ?! the irony )
better salaries for the PR people (get more chaps to join ?)
No idea really 
-----------------
aspiring carebear |
Yakia TovilToba
Halliburton Inc.
|
Posted - 2008.06.26 08:33:00 -
[80]
Dear forum advisors, if you are such tough pvp guys and know exactly what to fit and how to fight, why don't you join the fight yourself ?
Apply as a FC (we need lot's of good FCs), say what ships you want in your fleet and people will bring it.
You know, on paper i can win every fight, that's not where you need skills, so unless you come and join the fight, i suggest you stand still and salute with humility and respect, when the next faction warfare fleet passes by, on their way to the battlefield.
|
|
|
Xennith
Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude
Ushra'Khan
|
Posted - 2008.06.26 08:39:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Yakia TovilToba
Dear forum advisors, if you are such tough pvp guys and know exactly what to fit and how to fight, why don't you join the fight yourself ?
Apply as a FC (we need lot's of good FCs), say what ships you want in your fleet and people will bring it.
You know, on paper i can win every fight, that's not where you need skills, so unless you come and join the fight, i suggest you stand still and salute with humility and respect, when the next faction warfare fleet passes by, on their way to the battlefield.
I hope you'll take this in the spirit in which it is intended, but I would rather have 10 Star Fraction pilots on my wing than 100 caldari militia, and I would take advice from my worst enemy if it was good advice offered in a helpful fashion.
We come for our people |
Waagaa Ktlehr
Evolution
Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2008.06.26 08:46:00 -
[82]
Edited by: Waagaa Ktlehr on 26/06/2008 08:46:41
Super Cheap Frigate/Nano hac swatter:
Caracal
H: 5x Assault Missile Launcher II w/ Precision Bloodclaws
M: 10mn MWD II, LSE II, F-S9 Large Extender, Anointed EM Hardener, Warp Disruptor II
L: 2x BCS II
Hits nano stuff that goes upto 8k/sec.
-
- |
el M
Romanian Space Explorer
|
Posted - 2008.06.26 08:56:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Yakia TovilToba
Dear forum advisors, if you are such tough pvp guys and know exactly what to fit and how to fight ...
 No I'm not an experienced FC. Not an experienced PVP-er either.
Still I am caldari and if I believe my advice will help the cause I will freely give it.
Yes the main problem with the caldari militias is not the caldari ships, is not the number of members, is the quality of (most of) the members.
Still as days go by and after each battle fought this can only increase ... You cannot make PVP-ers out of carebears overnight.
Prior to FW there where not many all caldari fleets so the setups and tactics apropriate are yet to be perfected.
The forums are the best place for new ideas to be shared.
The battlefield the only place to test them.
-----------------
aspiring carebear |
Yakia TovilToba
Halliburton Inc.
|
Posted - 2008.06.26 09:04:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Xennith
I would rather have 10 Star Fraction pilots on my wing than 100 caldari militia, and I would take advice from my worst enemy if it was good advice offered in a helpful fashion.
I don't question that they are good pvpers, but giving advise on the forums which begins with the sentence
Quote:
Dear Caldari Militia.
It has come to my attention that you have been sucking entirely too much at PvP, and have been therefore spamming my forums with whine.
does not help anyone.
There is plenty of good setups and theoretical advice on the forum, we don't have a shortage of that. What we need is leadership on the battlefield, not on forums. Whenever there is a good FC (we have a few good ones, but they can't cover the 23/7 ongoing battle in many systems), caldaris just crush the enemy fleets, and this happened quite often.
But most of time you have disorganized small groups, or spontanuous gangs with an FC that doesn't have a mike or clue about pvp etc. So if someone wants to help us, he should come and organize something instead of repeating setups that are not new or even obvious, even if he is Sir Molle, that won't change anything.
|
Venkul Mul
|
Posted - 2008.06.26 09:22:00 -
[85]
Originally by: Pychian Vanervi
Ok understand the part about ability to use stuff but is than an excuse for accepting a rubbish fleet DPS mode? Turrets have always been king and the fact Caldari, by forum admission are getting kicked is because all other races I assume use turrets?
As for the not knowing what you are going to fight, if you have scouts you cover that base.... or again is FW different?
I am only asking and questioning what i think are reasons why, I maybe wrong in my theories. As I am going to be partaking want to know what to expect from my wingmen.
No, the Caldari flee is doing badly because it hasn't a strong PvP corps backbone, is mostly composed of people thinking "this ship with this set up do strongly in PvE, so it should be as much effective in PvP", it is not organized so it is lacking the tacklers that would make the missile ships work well (most of the PvE players will not reduce tank to fit webber and warp disrupter, a valid tactic in Pve but not in PvP) and is lacking the scouts to give informations.
A significant percentage of the Gallente militia kills are done by the organized PvP corps within the militia (and I suppose it is the same for the Minmatar and Amarr). apparently there is a lack of those experienced PvP corps in the Caldari militia.
Lyrus post is a attempt to get the "rabble" of inexperienced PvE players to bring something more useful and capable to supporting the experienced PvP caldari players.
Having trained a Gallente and a Caldari PvE pilot, I can say that the Gallente pilots (and all the gun using pilots) are generally a bit more prepared for the problems of PvP. A gun using pilot will find some ship that are hard to hit even in level 2 missions, so he will buy a webber and learn to use it (I still recall the amazing change in my early fights against the NPC inti pilots after using the first time a webber). A missile user will not need that as his missiles will easily hit a NPC (and so not to fast) inti for some acceptable damage. So for them the first encounter with a fast ship is a stronger shock and most of them will try to win the fight with the same tactics that worked so well against NPC. When those fail a large percentage of them start crying "Caldari are broken. nano nerf. " instead of trying to get what they are doing wrong.
|
FlameGlow
State Protectorate
|
Posted - 2008.06.26 09:52:00 -
[86]
Edited by: FlameGlow on 26/06/2008 09:53:03
Originally by: Waagaa Ktlehr
Edited by: Waagaa Ktlehr on 26/06/2008 08:46:41
Super Cheap Frigate/Nano hac swatter:
Caracal
H: 5x Assault Missile Launcher II w/ Precision Bloodclaws
M: 10mn MWD II, LSE II, F-S9 Large Extender, Anointed EM Hardener, Warp Disruptor II
L: 2x BCS II
Hits nano stuff that goes upto 8k/sec.
Drop MWD, even with it it's still a BS-like slowboat and fitting is too tight. And I don't beleive you about 8k/s - even with all lvl 5 explosion velocity is 4500, so by 6 km/s target speed damage will be negated completely or almost completely. Explosion velocity rigs are needed, 3 T1s will get you 7km/s and then it won't fit because of rig drawbacks.
|
kill0rbunny
Jagdkommando
RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.06.26 10:11:00 -
[87]
Edited by: kill0rbunny on 26/06/2008 10:11:03
Originally by: SellYourPoppa
stuff
Originally by: el M
more stuff
Please don't spam a good thread with fits that are so incredibly crap it's not even funny any more.
A tackling scorp and blackbird, please stop telling anyone that is a good thing to do, because it's the easiest way to make them suck even more than they do now.
Go places. Kill people. |
el M
Romanian Space Explorer
|
Posted - 2008.06.26 10:25:00 -
[88]
@kill0rbunny
- if you fit all your ships to make best use of their strengths u get a predictable fleet of caldari who lacks tackle. No tackle bad PVP.
I did not advice caldari to fit all their Scorps and BB's like that, god forbid !!! Those skilled enough for caldari EWAR should use caldari EWAR.
Caldari have no ships with a clear tackle role(beeing specialized ships and all..) - fitting ships to tackle is not gonna make best use of those ships abilities (yes). Does this mean all caldari fleets should use no tackle at all then ?
-----------------
aspiring carebear |
Xennith
Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude
Ushra'Khan
|
Posted - 2008.06.26 10:33:00 -
[89]
Originally by: el M
Caldari have no ships with a clear tackle role(beeing specialized ships and all..) - fitting ships to tackle is not gonna make best use of those ships abilities (yes). Does this mean all caldari fleets should use no tackle at all then ?
crow. raptor. onyx.
We come for our people |
kill0rbunny
Jagdkommando
RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.06.26 10:35:00 -
[90]
Originally by: el M
Caldari have no ships with a clear tackle role(beeing specialized ships and all..) - fitting ships to tackle is not gonna make best use of those ships abilities (yes). Does this mean all caldari fleets should use no tackle at all then ?
Yeah, caldari have no interceptors and frigates at all.
Oh wait...
Cruisers/Battlecruisers/Battleships don't tackle ****. They are too slow.
[Merlin, Tackling ****]
Overdrive Injector System I
Nanofiber Internal Structure I
Medium Subordinate Screen Stabilizer I
X5 Prototype I Engine Enervator
Fleeting Warp Scrambler I
1MN MicroWarpdrive I
75mm Gatling Rail I, Antimatter Charge S
75mm Gatling Rail I, Antimatter Charge S
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]
It does not tackle a vagabond alone but the protection from his jamming friends will make it survive.
His jamming friends are scorps and blackbirds that fit jammers, not tackling gear.
Go places. Kill people. |
|
|
el M
Romanian Space Explorer
|
Posted - 2008.06.26 11:02:00 -
[91]
Edited by: el M on 26/06/2008 11:04:45
Skilled (crow. raptor. onyx.) pilots are not the subject of this thread ... This thread is addressed to the ones bringing PVE fits to PVP ..
About BCs and BSs not needing tackle beeing to slow and all ... Torp ravens are slow and short ranged .
Blaster addicted gallente will close on them fast.
Being able to web, scram them when they come for you seriously hurts them due to the extremely low ranges blasters need to operate. Webbed blaster boat is just as out of the fight as a jammed one (almost). Then you need them scramed so they don't just turn tail and leave you .
Caldari have little problems in long range fights. Close range skirmishes are gallente forte.
-----------------
aspiring carebear |
Roemy Schneider
BINFORD
|
Posted - 2008.06.26 11:19:00 -
[92]
Originally by: Gypsio III
Edited by: Gypsio III on 25/06/2008 11:27:05
Bringing 2 or 3 Basilisks will also help to keep your tacklers alive, and it'll take a lot to break the remote-rep circletoss of, say, 3 Basilisks and 5 shield-transferring Ravens, all with ECCM. Even Ospreys have a STA range bonus that will help tacklers close to you.
Do not fit Heavy Missile Launchers on your Caracals. Always fit Assault Missile Launcher IIs with Precision Lights, and train Target Navigation Prediction to IV immediately. Ten Caracals will deliver 50 Precision Lights every 5-6 seconds, hitting an unpimped nanocruiser for full damage. That will hurt. Heavy missiles will not. Use kinetic missiles against Minnie HACs/recons, EM missiles against other races' nanocruisers.
my scimitar doesnt like this post =(
-
putting the gist back into logistics |
Tenuo
Native Freshfood
|
Posted - 2008.06.26 11:19:00 -
[93]
Originally by: baltec1
Edited by: baltec1 on 25/06/2008 15:33:27
Originally by: Kirana Si
Edited by: Kirana Si on 25/06/2008 12:49:34
Originally by: Kelli Flay
Originally by: Xennith
Originally by: Kelli Flay
I never said that word here. Paranoid about something?
Assuming is for idiots btw.
your post history displays a lot of complaints about nanos being broken, but im willing to admit when im wrong. so please. enlighten me, what exactly do you think is broken and being defended in this thread if it is not nanos?
Huh? You need the original post explained to you? I don't understand what your malfunction is.
Its a good thing you looked up my post history as well.
Why dont you lose a Caracal over it ?
too late
And you wonder why I don't take people like you seriously.
_______________________________________________________________________________
EVE Online: The Hand-holding Age
The truth about balance is that it doesn't exist. |
Kelli Flay
|
Posted - 2008.06.26 11:44:00 -
[94]
Originally by: Yakia TovilToba
Dear forum advisors, if you are such tough pvp guys and know exactly what to fit and how to fight, why don't you join the fight yourself ?
Apply as a FC (we need lot's of good FCs), say what ships you want in your fleet and people will bring it.
You know, on paper i can win every fight, that's not where you need skills, so unless you come and join the fight, i suggest you stand still and salute with humility and respect, when the next faction warfare fleet passes by, on their way to the battlefield.
Here I will explain things for you.
Basically, the only reason they are even talking to you is because they are afraid of nanos getting the nerf bat. That is theONLY reason. None of them care about you, FW, or of the difficulty you may or may not be experiencing in PvP.
There are basically two types of Pro-Nano posters:
1) Poster will pretend like he wants to help you. He will give you advice on how to setup your ship, your fleet, tell you to cross train into another race, bring a Huginn, Learn about Transversal, don't expect missiles to be effective {even though the Caldari race are missile specialists }Use drones, train med railguns ect ect.
He will give you all the counters to nanos because it does two things:
a) Pacifies you into thinking you were wrong to think nano setups were OPered and broken all this time.
b) Poster believes if he posts all the "secrets" that the Devs will read and won't nerf since there are "obviously" so many counters.
What this poster doesn't tell you is that your Huggins will be the first ships primaried by the nanofags if you bring it to a gang. He won't tell you that most of the "counters" he has shared with you won't actually kill nano setups but at best, drive them off. Congratulations! All that work and preparation just to make a guy flee and live to fight again!
2) Okay, now we come to Pro-Nano poster number 2. What this guy will do is come on here and tell you that you are a dumb noob.  His posts will be a condescending wall of insults with very little substance. This poster doesn't even want to pretend to help you. He wants to embarrass you so that you won't discuss the topic further. He simply wants you to go away. After all, bringing attention to an issue could cause the nerf bat to come down hard so it is in their interest to shut you up regardless of what it takes.
So this is my brief guide to nano noob forum warfare. I hope you found it helpful.
|
el M
Romanian Space Explorer
|
Posted - 2008.06.26 12:04:00 -
[95]
@kill0rbunny
I did read the OPs post before and all your posts (full of good info that will benefit both me and the other readers ). Upon closer inspection it appears that indeed he is posting about a long range fleet (cruise ravens, newt only if in range, otherwise keep formation , don't rush the enemy lines).Jam thee @#$@ of the enemy ... Sound caldari tactic.
Does a cruise raven fleet actualy stand chance against a fleet of mega's fitted for fleet sniping ? What is the usual rage those FW skirmishes take place anyway ? Are these cruise Ravens supposed to supplement a bunch of Rohks ? Are they the main damage dealears ? What is the proposed/desired range for the engagement ?
(About my fittings please don't take them so literary ... All i meant to say was that some of the caldari boats can be altered to fit scramblers and webs ... )
On a perfect world caldari kite the poor permajammed gallente all day long while they just stand still waiting to be slaughtered .. Good FC-ing and fleet discipline can bring that day closer but still ... If/When this fleet gets ambushed  not a pretty sight.
and a little nitpick of our own -> not many of the caldari militias can use the PDS II.(heavy missile drake fit).
----
-----------------
aspiring carebear |
Xennith
Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude
Ushra'Khan
|
Posted - 2008.06.26 12:04:00 -
[96]
Originally by: Kelli Flay
Originally by: Xennith
Originally by: Kelli Flay
Got to love these threads where the OPer tries to "educate" people on how to deal with something that is unbalanced because they are so afraid it will get nerfed.
Fail.
im going to assume that you're talking about nanoships? because the OP didnt mention them.
I never said that word here. Paranoid about something?
Assuming is for idiots btw.
yep. not talking about nanos at all. incidently, the OP didnt mention them.
We come for our people |
Kelli Flay
|
Posted - 2008.06.26 12:07:00 -
[97]
Originally by: Xennith
Originally by: Kelli Flay
Originally by: Xennith
Originally by: Kelli Flay
Got to love these threads where the OPer tries to "educate" people on how to deal with something that is unbalanced because they are so afraid it will get nerfed.
Fail.
im going to assume that you're talking about nanoships? because the OP didnt mention them.
I never said that word here. Paranoid about something?
Assuming is for idiots btw.
yep. not talking about nanos at all. incidently, the OP didnt mention them.
Yeah and I made that post when?...yesterday?
I was also responding to another person in this thread. Not the OPer.
You fail.
|
Xennith
Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude
Ushra'Khan
|
Posted - 2008.06.26 12:11:00 -
[98]
oh well, seeing as you made the poast yesterday calling me an idiot and not today ill just ignore the fact that i was right and you were on an anti-nano whine despite this thread having nothing to do with the subject.
We come for our people |
Kelli Flay
|
Posted - 2008.06.26 12:21:00 -
[99]
Originally by: Xennith
oh well, seeing as you made the poast yesterday calling me an idiot and not today ill just ignore the fact that i was right and you were on an anti-nano whine despite this thread having nothing to do with the subject.
I see. the thread has nothing to do with nanos at all and has to do with the need of the entire Caldari militia needing an education on how to PvP. Hmm, I wonder why people might think they need that?
On a side note, interesting that i don't see Amaar, Gallente or Minmater "Militia,Fleet composition and tactic" threads anywhere.
|
Tippia
School of Applied Knowledge
|
Posted - 2008.06.26 12:22:00 -
[100]
Originally by: Kelli Flay
On a side note, interesting that i don't see Amaar, Gallente or Minmater "Militia,Fleet composition and tactic" threads anywhere.
Maybe because they're not having the same problems in their miltia fleets?
|
|
|
Kelli Flay
|
Posted - 2008.06.26 12:23:00 -
[101]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Kelli Flay
On a side note, interesting that i don't see Amaar, Gallente or Minmater "Militia,Fleet composition and tactic" threads anywhere.
Maybe because they're not having the same problems in their miltia fleets?
What problem would that be? Didn't they take down a couple RA carriers recently?
|
Tippia
School of Applied Knowledge
|
Posted - 2008.06.26 12:26:00 -
[102]
Edited by: Tippia on 26/06/2008 12:27:31
Originally by: Kelli Flay
What problem would that be? Didn't they take down a couple RA carriers recently?
Don't ask me – ask the Gallente who have been crying endlessly about the Caldari militia's (supposedly) poor PvP skills.
Oh and:
Quote:
I see. the thread has nothing to do with nanos at all
Nope. Someone mentioned it the first time, in passing, on page three and you were the first one to explicityly make it a pro/anti-nano debate in post #93.
|
FlameGlow
State Protectorate
|
Posted - 2008.06.26 12:33:00 -
[103]
Originally by: Kelli Flay
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Kelli Flay
On a side note, interesting that i don't see Amaar, Gallente or Minmater "Militia,Fleet composition and tactic" threads anywhere.
Maybe because they're not having the same problems in their miltia fleets?
What problem would that be? Didn't they take down a couple RA carriers recently?
But those weren't nano-carriers
|
Kelli Flay
|
Posted - 2008.06.26 12:34:00 -
[104]
Originally by: Tippia
Edited by: Tippia on 26/06/2008 12:27:31
Originally by: Kelli Flay
What problem would that be? Didn't they take down a couple RA carriers recently?
Don't ask me ű ask the Gallente who have been crying endlessly about the Caldari militia's (supposedly) poor PvP skills.
Oh and:
Quote:
I see. the thread has nothing to do with nanos at all
Nope. Someone mentioned it the first time, in passing, on page three and you were the first one to explicityly make it a pro/anti-nano debate in post #93.
And your point is?
Yesterday, I wasn't discussing nanos in this thread. Today I am. Wow, you got me there! /big golf clap for you.
Maybe ill come back tomorrow and mention them again or maybe not. The world will continue to revolve won't it?
|
Kelli Flay
|
Posted - 2008.06.26 12:35:00 -
[105]
Originally by: FlameGlow
Originally by: Kelli Flay
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Kelli Flay
On a side note, interesting that i don't see Amaar, Gallente or Minmater "Militia,Fleet composition and tactic" threads anywhere.
Maybe because they're not having the same problems in their miltia fleets?
What problem would that be? Didn't they take down a couple RA carriers recently?
But those weren't nano-carriers
lol Good thing. They should have brought their Minmater Recons and railguns.
|
Rhanna Khurin
|
Posted - 2008.06.26 12:37:00 -
[106]
Originally by: Tippia
Don't ask me ű ask the Gallente who have been crying endlessly about the Caldari militia's (supposedly) poor PvP skills.
If think you're mistaken, the Gallente don;t cry about Caldari being poor at pvp. They laugh.
|
Tippia
School of Applied Knowledge
|
Posted - 2008.06.26 12:44:00 -
[107]
Originally by: Rhanna Khurin
If think you're mistaken, the Gallente don;t cry about Caldari being poor at pvp. They laugh.
Well, I might have worded it poorly. I meant cry about in the sense of "making a ton of noise on the topic of" – or, perhaps more accuratly, "heckle mercilessly"
|
Tippia
School of Applied Knowledge
|
Posted - 2008.06.26 12:52:00 -
[108]
Originally by: Kelli Flay
And your point is?
My point is that, try as you might to derail the thread in that direction, it isn't about nano ships.
|
Kelli Flay
|
Posted - 2008.06.26 12:54:00 -
[109]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Kelli Flay
And your point is?
My point is that, try as you might to derail the thread in that direction, it isn't about nano ships.
It is now chief.
|
Tippia
School of Applied Knowledge
|
Posted - 2008.06.26 12:56:00 -
[110]
Originally by: Kelli Flay
It is now chief.
So Xennith was right, then. Good.
|
|
|
Kelli Flay
|
Posted - 2008.06.26 12:58:00 -
[111]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Kelli Flay
It is now chief.
So Xennith was right, then. Good.
I love how you post with your main and then agree with it with your alt.
It is funny how you two are both always in the same threads.
|
Xennith
Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude
Ushra'Khan
|
Posted - 2008.06.26 13:04:00 -
[112]
Originally by: Kelli Flay
I love how you post with your main and then agree with it with your alt.
It is funny how you two are both always in the same threads.
Not that i want to derail this thread any further, (probably not possible), or get involved in a slagging match on the interwebs but could you provide some examples please?
i remember last time i asked you to do that you kinda ended up spraying bile all over the thread and running away for a day then pretending that it never happened. so im interested to see if you do the same this time. call it scientific curiosity.
We come for our people |
NeoTheo
Dark Materials
|
Posted - 2008.06.26 13:11:00 -
[113]
I'll be honest i am DISGUSTED with my time in the caldari milita so far, last nigth i headed down to Nouv and Tama to grab a gang. I kitted up a drake as i am short on cash and wanted something survivable (i dont usually fly drakes but hey ho).
anyhow i arrive in nouv and there is the usual 40 person camp on the empire side of the gate, i x up in milita and find myself in a fleet is miles away from nouv and its dispersed over well over 20 systems. what followed on EvE voice was some of the poor'st FC'ing i have EVERY heard, crys of "you tacklers are ****" when the guy couldnt get his fleet all in once place, his instauctions comprised of "GET HIM" and other such gems of FC'ing goodness.
I felt genunily sorry for the american guy who was trying to occasionally bring some sense to the situation but was over rules in each instance, he actaully sounded like a great FC, clear instructions and understood the issues the fleet as a whole was having...
So some 20 mins laters i got bored with asking "who was going to head up to the main fleet" and deicded id try to organise it myself, so in fleet i say, "right guys, there are at least 10 of us here, and 5 galente on the otherside of the gate, ill head in, get agression and then jump thru and pwn the hell out of the them"
note, id already checked out the situation we had at least 4 tacklers at gate, 1 onyx, and 3 battleships, the gang on the otherside of the gate consisted of a Harb, Crow, Crow, huggin and Vaga. I npped thru, then slowboated back to get some recon.
I then repeated this message to the whole milita so that the other people on the Nouv gate not in gang had a idea. as i was "draked up", i was pretty sure that i could tank the gorup on the otherside for at LONG TIME (turns out i was right) not only that i could really play the bait games quiet well.
So after a few people go "ok mate", i jump through.
guys how many people followed me? thats right out of the 40 + people on the Tama gate in Nouv, who followed me through? none not one, not a single one. so after 10 mins of me saying "err guys, are you commin gto help" and then getting poped i nipped out for a smoke (yes i survived for friggin ages).
now dont get me wrong here, i really really am NOT ringed about the ship, or the loss, ive lost far bigger and far more expensive ships to stupid mistakes.
what annoys me is that the caldari fleet sits there on the tama gate in nouv and NEVER moves, if your going ot camp the gate AT LEAST camp the friggin Tama side to make it easyer for our forces to get there **** together.
from now on i think ill be running my own gangs or keeping a running list of "good and bad" FC's the dude from lastnight deffo goes down as a terrible FC i much preferred listening to the American guy who had a clue how to mobilise the fleet.
its also worth noting that at least 3 more people durin the course of the night asked for help on the oposite side of the gate, and NONE of them recieved any help (one persona actually said "they are nano fit anyhow, you cant kill them so i am not going to help",
well you could of actaull got off your ass, jumped through and at least forced them to deagress so that the friendly was safe, its not like they had a huge login trap waiting.
i am ashamed to call myself caldari, these guys simply do not give crap about our KB stats, they only want to farm kills when its safe and sometimes they wont even engange when they out number the galente 4 to 1.
Neotheo
Dark Materials
Linkage
|
Kelli Flay
|
Posted - 2008.06.26 13:11:00 -
[114]
Originally by: Xennith
Originally by: Kelli Flay
I love how you post with your main and then agree with it with your alt.
It is funny how you two are both always in the same threads.
Not that i want to derail this thread any further, (probably not possible), or get involved in a slagging match on the interwebs but could you provide some examples please?
i remember last time i asked you to do that you kinda ended up spraying bile all over the thread and running away for a day then pretending that it never happened. so im interested to see if you do the same this time. call it scientific curiosity.
If you want to call going to bed because I was up all night "running away" because I didn't continue to argue against your anal retentive posts, then yeah...whatever.
As for other examples, imagine this, I didn't bookmark them However, I know I read at least one other thread where you were talking to yourself.
At least someone agrees with you though...right?
Maybe I should bring my main in here to make it look like someone is backing me up too.
|
Turiel Demon
SHRIKE.
|
Posted - 2008.06.26 13:12:00 -
[115]
Will you insufferable nano-[flame deleted, Turiel], pro- and anti- both, just stick to your own damn threads? There's about 73213489 of them, and that's just on the front page of GD.
Here we have a rather nice, and I could say with some justification vital, discussion on caldari tactics to let the caldari militia into fighting shape. Caldari have the largest milita, yet are performing poorly. How about we let some experienced pvp'ers and fleet tactitians perform a bit of uplift without derailing the whole thing into yet another pointless misquoting competition on a subject which has ENOUGH FRICKEN THREADS ALREADY.
I applaud the effort of the OP, onwards with viable caldari tactics!
Incidentally, what's the problem with cross-training to pvp? I cross-trained to caldari to rat and run missions
----
nothing to see here, move along nicely now, is that a pink dread out there. aaww you just missed it -eris
|
Xennith
Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude
Ushra'Khan
|
Posted - 2008.06.26 13:14:00 -
[116]
Originally by: Kelli Flay
Maybe I should bring my main in here to make it look like someone is backing me up too.
agreed. post with your main if you're going to go around calling people idiots.
We come for our people |
Kelli Flay
|
Posted - 2008.06.26 13:17:00 -
[117]
Originally by: NeoTheo
I'll be honest i am DISGUSTED with my time in the caldari milita so far, last nigth i headed down to Nouv and Tama to grab a gang. I kitted up a drake as i am short on cash and wanted something survivable (i dont usually fly drakes but hey ho).
anyhow i arrive in nouv and there is the usual 40 person camp on the empire side of the gate, i x up in milita and find myself in a fleet is miles away from nouv and its dispersed over well over 20 systems. what followed on EvE voice was some of the poor'st FC'ing i have EVERY heard, crys of "you tacklers are ****" when the guy couldnt get his fleet all in once place, his instauctions comprised of "GET HIM" and other such gems of FC'ing goodness.
I felt genunily sorry for the american guy who was trying to occasionally bring some sense to the situation but was over rules in each instance, he actaully sounded like a great FC, clear instructions and understood the issues the fleet as a whole was having...
So some 20 mins laters i got bored with asking "who was going to head up to the main fleet" and deicded id try to organise it myself, so in fleet i say, "right guys, there are at least 10 of us here, and 5 galente on the otherside of the gate, ill head in, get agression and then jump thru and pwn the hell out of the them"
note, id already checked out the situation we had at least 4 tacklers at gate, 1 onyx, and 3 battleships, the gang on the otherside of the gate consisted of a Harb, Crow, Crow, huggin and Vaga. I npped thru, then slowboated back to get some recon.
I then repeated this message to the whole milita so that the other people on the Nouv gate not in gang had a idea. as i was "draked up", i was pretty sure that i could tank the gorup on the otherside for at LONG TIME (turns out i was right) not only that i could really play the bait games quiet well.
So after a few people go "ok mate", i jump through.
guys how many people followed me? thats right out of the 40 + people on the Tama gate in Nouv, who followed me through? none not one, not a single one. so after 10 mins of me saying "err guys, are you commin gto help" and then getting poped i nipped out for a smoke (yes i survived for friggin ages).
now dont get me wrong here, i really really am NOT ringed about the ship, or the loss, ive lost far bigger and far more expensive ships to stupid mistakes.
what annoys me is that the caldari fleet sits there on the tama gate in nouv and NEVER moves, if your going ot camp the gate AT LEAST camp the friggin Tama side to make it easyer for our forces to get there **** together.
from now on i think ill be running my own gangs or keeping a running list of "good and bad" FC's the dude from lastnight deffo goes down as a terrible FC i much preferred listening to the American guy who had a clue how to mobilise the fleet.
its also worth noting that at least 3 more people durin the course of the night asked for help on the oposite side of the gate, and NONE of them recieved any help (one persona actually said "they are nano fit anyhow, you cant kill them so i am not going to help",
well you could of actaull got off your ass, jumped through and at least forced them to deagress so that the friendly was safe, its not like they had a huge login trap waiting.
i am ashamed to call myself caldari, these guys simply do not give crap about our KB stats, they only want to farm kills when its safe and sometimes they wont even engange when they out number the galente 4 to 1.
Resign from Caldari and join Amarr then. I am sure they could use you.
|
FlameGlow
State Protectorate
|
Posted - 2008.06.26 13:20:00 -
[118]
Originally by: NeoTheo
Lots of stuff
Well it may be a revelation to you that Nourv/Tama bunch is completely worthless, but pretty much everyone but them knows that for over a week
Answer is simple - don't go to Nourv, Tama, or even entire pipe to old Man's Star; organize or join a small gang, take it to verge vendor or essence and PVP at your heart's content
|
Kelli Flay
|
Posted - 2008.06.26 13:20:00 -
[119]
Originally by: Xennith
Originally by: Kelli Flay
Maybe I should bring my main in here to make it look like someone is backing me up too.
agreed. post with your main if you're going to go around calling people idiots.
What difference does it make. Both my main and my Trader alt agree on everything.
On a side note: i am getting this feeling that you are waiting for an apology from me for calling you an idiot yesterday? You keep mentioning it.
|
NeoTheo
Dark Materials
|
Posted - 2008.06.26 13:20:00 -
[120]
Originally by: Kelli Flay
Originally by: NeoTheo
I'll be honest i am DISGUSTED with my time in the caldari milita so far, last nigth i headed down to Nouv and Tama to grab a gang. I kitted up a drake as i am short on cash and wanted something survivable (i dont usually fly drakes but hey ho).
anyhow i arrive in nouv and there is the usual 40 person camp on the empire side of the gate, i x up in milita and find myself in a fleet is miles away from nouv and its dispersed over well over 20 systems. what followed on EvE voice was some of the poor'st FC'ing i have EVERY heard, crys of "you tacklers are ****" when the guy couldnt get his fleet all in once place, his instauctions comprised of "GET HIM" and other such gems of FC'ing goodness.
I felt genunily sorry for the american guy who was trying to occasionally bring some sense to the situation but was over rules in each instance, he actaully sounded like a great FC, clear instructions and understood the issues the fleet as a whole was having...
So some 20 mins laters i got bored with asking "who was going to head up to the main fleet" and deicded id try to organise it myself, so in fleet i say, "right guys, there are at least 10 of us here, and 5 galente on the otherside of the gate, ill head in, get agression and then jump thru and pwn the hell out of the them"
note, id already checked out the situation we had at least 4 tacklers at gate, 1 onyx, and 3 battleships, the gang on the otherside of the gate consisted of a Harb, Crow, Crow, huggin and Vaga. I npped thru, then slowboated back to get some recon.
I then repeated this message to the whole milita so that the other people on the Nouv gate not in gang had a idea. as i was "draked up", i was pretty sure that i could tank the gorup on the otherside for at LONG TIME (turns out i was right) not only that i could really play the bait games quiet well.
So after a few people go "ok mate", i jump through.
guys how many people followed me? thats right out of the 40 + people on the Tama gate in Nouv, who followed me through? none not one, not a single one. so after 10 mins of me saying "err guys, are you commin gto help" and then getting poped i nipped out for a smoke (yes i survived for friggin ages).
now dont get me wrong here, i really really am NOT ringed about the ship, or the loss, ive lost far bigger and far more expensive ships to stupid mistakes.
what annoys me is that the caldari fleet sits there on the tama gate in nouv and NEVER moves, if your going ot camp the gate AT LEAST camp the friggin Tama side to make it easyer for our forces to get there **** together.
from now on i think ill be running my own gangs or keeping a running list of "good and bad" FC's the dude from lastnight deffo goes down as a terrible FC i much preferred listening to the American guy who had a clue how to mobilise the fleet.
its also worth noting that at least 3 more people durin the course of the night asked for help on the oposite side of the gate, and NONE of them recieved any help (one persona actually said "they are nano fit anyhow, you cant kill them so i am not going to help",
well you could of actaull got off your ass, jumped through and at least forced them to deagress so that the friendly was safe, its not like they had a huge login trap waiting.
i am ashamed to call myself caldari, these guys simply do not give crap about our KB stats, they only want to farm kills when its safe and sometimes they wont even engange when they out number the galente 4 to 1.
Resign from Caldari and join Amarr then. I am sure they could use you.
considered it mate, but the issue is i am pretty sure this is just going go be typical of all factional warfare? in other words, people grinding achivements and thats it.
to be honest my corp only really has 5 members thesedays, so i intend to use our time in the caldari milita to recuirt some decent combat pilots. but ill mainly be running my own gangs from now.
Neotheo
Dark Materials
Linkage
|
|
|
NeoTheo
Dark Materials
|
Posted - 2008.06.26 13:22:00 -
[121]
Originally by: FlameGlow
Originally by: NeoTheo
Lots of stuff
Well it may be a revelation to you that Nourv/Tama bunch is completely worthless, but pretty much everyone but them knows that for over a week
Answer is simple - don't go to Nourv, Tama, or even entire pipe to old Man's Star; organize or join a small gang, take it to verge vendor or essence and PVP at your heart's content
thanks mate, due to real life i have not had my ear on the ground that much, so i kinda just setup where i could see the majority of the folks are, surely everyone in Nouv cant be worthless now can they ? ;)
Neotheo
Dark Materials
Linkage
|
Xennith
Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude
Ushra'Khan
|
Posted - 2008.06.26 13:27:00 -
[122]
Originally by: Kelli Flay
On a side note: i am getting this feeling that you are waiting for an apology from me for calling you an idiot yesterday? You keep mentioning it.
no, im just enjoying being right. it doesnt happen very often. if you want to call people idiots and engage in a bit of the old "forum pvp" then be my guest. ive probably spent too much time arguing with you about unimportant (lolinternetspaceships) stuff and derailed the hell out of this thread already, so ill probably leave it there.
We come for our people |
Kelli Flay
|
Posted - 2008.06.26 13:33:00 -
[123]
Originally by: NeoTheo
considered it mate, but the issue is i am pretty sure this is just going go be typical of all factional warfare? in other words, people grinding achivements and thats it.
to be honest my corp only really has 5 members thesedays, so i intend to use our time in the caldari milita to recuirt some decent combat pilots. but ill mainly be running my own gangs from now.
The Amarr are shorthanded so at the very least, if you like to solo, there are tons of targets to shoot at because a lot of Minmater noobs get impatient not having anything to kill and practically engage every time they see you no matter what you or they are flying.
Now I am not saying all the Mater are like that. Just some of their soloers. For the most part, they are wiping the floor with Amarr right now. At least the Amarr fleet isn't afraid to jump into a system though.
I have been in a few Amarr fleets as well and they seem to be well run. Just outnumbered unfortunately.
|
FlameGlow
State Protectorate
|
Posted - 2008.06.26 13:34:00 -
[124]
Originally by: NeoTheo
Originally by: FlameGlow
Originally by: NeoTheo
Lots of stuff
Well it may be a revelation to you that Nourv/Tama bunch is completely worthless, but pretty much everyone but them knows that for over a week
Answer is simple - don't go to Nourv, Tama, or even entire pipe to old Man's Star; organize or join a small gang, take it to verge vendor or essence and PVP at your heart's content
thanks mate, due to real life i have not had my ear on the ground that much, so i kinda just setup where i could see the majority of the folks are, surely everyone in Nouv cant be worthless now can they ? ;)
The typical caldari Nourv/Tama militiamen mode of action:
The majority of them just goes out if a 100-men blob is formed, if it's only smaller gangs around they'll sit on that gate all day and spam militia chat with X And if a blob forms it'll move to Old Man's or maybe Kedama/Nisuwa but it moves slow and makes 5 jumps at most If blob by some miracle meets gallente blob some lag-ridden fighting occurs, otherwise blob might stick for a while somewhere in pipe and camp gates, then make way back to Tama and disperse. Ooohhh, exciting PVP!
That's why just don't go there, pick up ppl from chat and establish other meeting point.
|
Letharia
|
Posted - 2008.06.26 13:37:00 -
[125]
Originally by: Kelli Flay
Basically, the only reason they are even talking to you is because they are afraid of nanos getting the nerf bat. That is theONLY reason. None of them care about you, FW, or of the difficulty you may or may not be experiencing in PvP.
No, the real reason that people are poasting is that it's funny to see how clueless you guys are. Hell even people like me who DON't fly nano 23/7 get the itch to ridicule the whiners.
Originally by: Kelli Flay
There are basically two types of Pro-Nano posters:
Rant
You forgot Pro-poster nr 3: Kelli Flay
Who by making clueless arguments and emorage posts are scaring the whiners away for fear of association.
Oh and can I have you'r stuff? |
Xparky
Federal Navy Academy
|
Posted - 2008.06.26 13:41:00 -
[126]
Another nano thread in disguise ? I'll be succinct.
A few days ago devs stated (informally), talking to Jade Constantine, that they have analyzed the nano issue and "they are seeing some nano use as a problem (up in the 8000+ m/s bracket). [...] Its probably fair to say that "nano" usage in the 3000-4000 m/s mark isn't much of a problem."
Q: So what is this, the devs are saying ?
A: They're saying the regular nanoed HAC (without snakes, drugs or other fancy stuff) is not much of a problem ! Ok maybe the vagabond goes a little faster, up to 5000, but it's minmatar, it's supposed to.
You're gonna say 'They're wrong ! It is a problem !'.
The devs know their game inside out and when a certain element breaks it, they know that too.
Bottom line:
The tools to kill the regular nano ~5000 m/s are at your disposal. Most of them fly at this speed.
Not many nano pilots are billionaires! (snakes, faction modules, etc, really expensive stuff to put on a virtually "no tank" ship)
So while we can expect a nano nerf, I don't think it will be against the regular nano HAC, of which many people, especially Calamari, complain about.
. |
Kelli Flay
|
Posted - 2008.06.26 13:43:00 -
[127]
Originally by: Letharia
Originally by: Kelli Flay
Basically, the only reason they are even talking to you is because they are afraid of nanos getting the nerf bat. That is theONLY reason. None of them care about you, FW, or of the difficulty you may or may not be experiencing in PvP.
No, the real reason that people are poasting is that it's funny to see how clueless you guys are. Hell even people like me who DON't fly nano 23/7 get the itch to ridicule the whiners.
Originally by: Kelli Flay
There are basically two types of Pro-Nano posters:
Rant
You forgot Pro-poster nr 3: Kelli Flay
Who by making clueless arguments and emorage posts are scaring the whiners away for fear of association.
Oh and can I have you'r stuff?
1) Why would you ask for my stuff? I don't remember even mentioning quitting EvE.
2) What is an "emorge?"
3) "poasting" Hmm. you are 14 or 15 yrs old correct?
4) I called that other poster an "idiot" yesterday. Guess who the idiot is today? You make him/her seem like a rocket surgeon.
|
Kelli Flay
|
Posted - 2008.06.26 13:49:00 -
[128]
Originally by: Xparky
So while we can expect a nano nerf, I don't think it will be against the regular nano HAC, of which many people, especially Calamari, complain about.
For the record Xparky, the stuff I mostly want to see nerfed is the excessive stuff and not the ships that are suppose to fly fast. In fact, my favorite ship is the Vaga. I don't nano it up though unless you consider a single Injector as "nano."
|
Tippia
School of Applied Knowledge
|
Posted - 2008.06.26 14:08:00 -
[129]
Edited by: Tippia on 26/06/2008 14:10:55
Originally by: Kelli Flay
I love how you post with your main and then agree with it with your alt.
Oh god! It's Planetside all over again. Back then, I was a mossiewhoring, reaverspamming, hotdropping, MAXnublet, as well as a PS-RExotanking, thumperlamer and a surgile JH-bunny… all at once 
Now, six months into this game, I'm suddenly an many-years-old alt. I'm guessing that you're going to accuse me of having umpteen bazillion SPs next and not having a good insight into the awful challenges new players face?
Oh well – I guess I should take it as flattery and praise. Apparently, I've learned more in this short time than most.
Quote:
It is funny how you two are both always in the same threads.
You haven't considered the possibility that your arguments aren't that convincing and that I, as a newbie, can see right through them with ease simply by studying the game mechanics and figuring out that what you're saying isn't quite true…
For the record, I don't even fly nanos (well, apart from by NanoBadger II) – don't have the skills for it. I have come across a couple, however, trying to "steal" my hard-earned (by which I mean AFK-earned) mining and missioning lewtz! They were quite easy to shoot, and ran away quickly enough…
|
Kelli Flay
|
Posted - 2008.06.26 14:13:00 -
[130]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Kelli Flay
I love how you post with your main and then agree with it with your alt.
Oh god! It's Planetside all over again. Back then, I was a mossiewhoring, reaverspamming, hotdropping, MAXnublet, as well as a PS-RExotanking, thumperlamer and a surgile JH-bunnyŕ all at once
Now, six months into this game, I'm suddenly an many-years-old alt. I'm guessing that you're going to accuse me of having umpteen bazillion SPs next and not having a good insight into the awful challenges new players face?
Oh well ű I guess I should take it as flattery and praise. Apparently, I've learned more in this short time than most.
Quote:
It is funny how you two are both always in the same threads.
You haven't considered the possibility that your arguments aren't that convincing and that I, as a newbie, can see right through them with ease simply by studying the game mechanics and figuring out that what you're saying isn't quite trueŕ
And what exactly have I said that isn't quite true? Game mechanic wise I mean?
|
|
|
Xennith
Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude
Ushra'Khan
|
Posted - 2008.06.26 14:15:00 -
[131]
Originally by: Tippia
Oh god! It's Planetside all over again. Back then, I was a mossiewhoring, reaverspamming, hotdropping, MAXnublet, as well as a PS-RExotanking, thumperlamer and a surgile JH-bunnyŕ all at once
heh, i did all of those things too, except for the reaver / mosquito stuff as i was a **** poor pilot and actually flipped galaxies regularly.
i miss those times :(
We come for our people |
Xercies Ravere
|
Posted - 2008.06.26 14:47:00 -
[132]
The problem is getting the other two people to go along with your idea...and that will not happen with caldari militia at the moment. So good thread idea, hope people learn by now.
How did it go so wrong. |
Tippia
School of Applied Knowledge
|
Posted - 2008.06.26 14:49:00 -
[133]
Originally by: Kelli Flay
And what exactly have I said that isn't quite true? Game mechanic wise I mean?
Weeeeell… lesseehere.
Quote:
The vet in EvE already has a huge advantage over the noob
Quote:
the setups {especially the very expensive ones} are making some weapons obsolete and useless. {again..see Caldari}
Quote:
[speed mods] render most other ship's weapons and modules useless
…from a quick search.
Originally by: Kelli Flay
It wasn't that I mistook you as an experienced vet though.
You choose to misconstrue other people's posts, so I choose to do the same to yours. Thank you for your praise.
Also, for future reference, just because you feel the need to hide behind an alt, doesn't mean the rest of us do.
|
Tippia
School of Applied Knowledge
|
Posted - 2008.06.26 14:53:00 -
[134]
Originally by: Xennith
i was a **** poor pilot and actually flipped galaxies regularly.
I'm impressed! I only ever managed to tilt mine to 90 degrees or so… although I did at one point try to use my Gal to flip a Vanguard on its back. The PS physics engine brought our fun to an abrupt halt by somehow flinging both him and me 8km off the coast of Oshur. Death from weak signal links ftw!
|
General StarScream
Empyrean Gallente
|
Posted - 2008.06.26 15:16:00 -
[135]
Caldri ships are win, they just using em wrong.
Please resize signature to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
The Star Fraction
|
Posted - 2008.06.26 17:01:00 -
[136]
Originally by: el M
Some stuff about tackling with Scorpions, blackbirds or Drakes
No. Please no. Really. No.
A tackler is for catching a target, and holding a point on them. Sometimes a web too. I'm trying to figure out if that actually makes the Scorpion the WORST POSSIBLE choice for that job or if there's some other sub-capital that counts.
Raptors are good. So are Crows. Merlins are about acceptable, but a little on the slow side for my liking.
Onyx has it's place too, and I suppose a Moa could just about pretend to be a cheap Onyx.
Originally by: Kelli Flay
*some stuff about nanos*
This thread was not about nanos. It was about a gang composition that can deal with a broad spectrum of threats. It was about the fact that the Caldari portfolio has a good variety of excellent ships, which if used well are devastatingly powerful.
Originally by: Xercies Ravere
The problem is getting the other two people to go along with your idea...and that will not happen with caldari militia at the moment. So good thread idea, hope people learn by now.
Well, maybe. But that's the case whatever they bring shipwise. There are many variants on a theme of a 'fleet setup' but ... I wanted to make the point that the way to make Caldari fleets work, is to specialise the core roles. And most importantly, that 'tank' is not a fleet role. Damage is, Tackle is, Support/Anti-support is. Dying last contributes nothing though.
It's also the case that missiles as a weapon system are like all the rest - they have strengths and weaknesses. One of their weaknesses is hitting fast ships, which is why you need a way to deal with said fast ships - heavy neutralisers, blackbirds and most importantly interceptors with webs, do this very nicely.
--
Crane needs more grid
249km locking? |
Valan
The Fated
Imperial Republic Of the North
|
Posted - 2008.06.26 17:13:00 -
[137]
Originally by: Gypsio III
Quote:
Pick any ship class and place Caldari in the top 2-3 I am sure it cant be done... prove me wrong happy to accept.
Best cruiser: Blackbird
Best battlecruiser: Drake
Best battleship: Scorpion
Best recon: Falcon
Utter crap. Best BS a Scorpion are you sure?
In fact the best ship is a complete misnomer, every ship has its strengths and weaknesses. Damage output from Caldari ships is generally bad. Apart from the Drake the tanks are average.
Before anyone points out I'm Caldari I can fit and t2 fit every ship below Capital. Well apart from haulers. I lean towards Amarrian ships in the medium sized classes.
/start sig
I love old characters that post 'I've beeen playing the game four years' when I know their account has been sold on.
/end sig |
General StarScream
Empyrean Gallente
|
Posted - 2008.06.26 17:16:00 -
[138]
haha have you checked the choice dps of a torp raven? any dam type you want, at allmost a mega dps, at 30km range. ye right.
Caldri are so overpowerd its sick
Please resize signature to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Gypsio III
Bambooule
|
Posted - 2008.06.26 17:40:00 -
[139]
If the job of a BS is to remove enemy DPS, then the Scorpion is unquestionably the best.
|
James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
The Star Fraction
|
Posted - 2008.06.26 17:43:00 -
[140]
Originally by: Valan
Originally by: Gypsio III
Quote:
Pick any ship class and place Caldari in the top 2-3 I am sure it cant be done... prove me wrong happy to accept.
Best cruiser: Blackbird
Best battlecruiser: Drake
Best battleship: Scorpion
Best recon: Falcon
Utter crap. Best BS a Scorpion are you sure?
Well, the Raven or Rokh might be contenders too. But we are talking fleet use right?
Quote:
In fact the best ship is a complete misnomer, every ship has its strengths and weaknesses. Damage output from Caldari ships is generally bad. Apart from the Drake the tanks are average.
Damage output as an EFT number, or damage output as 'how much they hurt something in a fleet'. Because the latter is what we're interested in. Caldari don't have the massive DPS numbers, but don't under estimate the fact that the Drake can do 600dps at 20km, the Raven can lay down 1300dps at 30km, or 400dps at 250km. The Rokh can also do 300odd from 250km away. Or it can do 850 from 30km, and still tank 800dps whilst doing so.
Range is both damage and tank, if you think about how to use it. There's falcon whining, because they're really hard to kill, and it's because they can do their think at 150km away. So can a Moa, or a Caracal.
But at the end of the day, a raw DPS number means little in a fleet - ask a megathron pilot how much they like MWDing 20km to a target to watch it pop as they get there.
Or for that matter, how much value a 'big tank' brings to a gang.
Quote:
Before anyone points out I'm Caldari I can fit and t2 fit every ship below Capital. Well apart from haulers. I lean towards Amarrian ships in the medium sized classes.
So am I. And so do I. I PvP in them too. I'm aware they have limitations, but they also have strengths - the problem with them, typically, is that people do not play to their strengths.
--
Crane needs more grid
249km locking? |
|
|
James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
The Star Fraction
|
Posted - 2008.06.26 17:55:00 -
[141]
Originally by: Gypsio III
If the job of a BS is to remove enemy DPS, then the Scorpion is unquestionably the best.
If it's doing massive damage at 'gate jumpin' range, the Raven's a strong contender.
If it's tanking really hard, and doing blaster grade damage at blaster ranges... Rokh comes out well.
If it's hitting at really long ranges... yup, that's the Rokh too. (Although Raven gets special mention as big DPS from extreme range, if you're prepared to think about the damage latency)
--
Crane needs more grid
249km locking? |
Astria Tiphareth
|
Posted - 2008.06.26 21:44:00 -
[142]
Originally by: James Lyrus
Battlecruisers: Drake is a 600dps, 72k ehp badass. It can also swap damage types, and not use much cap.
Whilst we're on the subject of educating newbies, I'm curious about this statement. Unusually I'm Caldari and yet fly Amarr ships, so I'm not yet in a position to try the Drake out or know much about the intricacies of missiles.
How does one get a Drake to do the above? Someone mentioned HAMs, but given that all I have for another few weeks is EFT (till I actually get Caldari Cruiser trained, if I can tear myself away from improving my Harbinger-related skills) I can't seem to work out how to achieve the above.
Throwing 7 HAM IIs and 3 BCU IIs on has EFT claiming 341 dps with everything level 5. Is it talking rubbish? Would you be rigging it? DPS and claims thereof have always been one to intrigue me as to how reliable those statements are, both in-game and from EFT. I'm not trying to dispute what you said, just curious as to where the numbers came from and what people can do to try and be equally reliable.
___
My views may not represent those of my corporation or alliance, which is why I never get invited to those diplomatic parties... |
van Uber
Swedish Aerospace Inc
Firmus Ixion
|
Posted - 2008.06.26 21:58:00 -
[143]
Edited by: van Uber on 26/06/2008 22:00:33
Edited by: van Uber on 26/06/2008 22:00:07
Originally by: Astria Tiphareth
Edited by: Astria Tiphareth on 26/06/2008 21:48:14
Throwing 7 HAM IIs and 3 BCU IIs on has EFT claiming 341 dps with everything level 5. Is it talking rubbish? Would you be rigging it? DPS and claims thereof have always been one to intrigue me as to how reliable those statements are, both in-game and from EFT. I'm not trying to dispute what you said, just curious as to where the numbers came from and what people can do to try and be equally reliable.
When someone says they can get this or that out of a setup, it is usually with "All level V" in mind. Mostly because it shows high end potential and makes comparisons easier. You probably missed fitting Faction Ammo with Kinetic dmg, that would be some considerable difference in dps. The below version will dish out 599 dps and have roughly 70.000 EHP (unsupported by gangs). Again, it is with "All level V".
[Drake, HAM]
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Power Diagnostic System II
10MN MicroWarpdrive II
Warp Disruptor II
Stasis Webifier II
Large Shield Extender II
Invulnerability Field II
Invulnerability Field II
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile
[empty high slot]
Core Defence Field Extender I
Core Defence Field Extender I
Core Defence Field Extender I
Warrior II x5
|
Astria Tiphareth
|
Posted - 2008.06.26 22:05:00 -
[144]
Originally by: van Uber
Drake setup
Ta very much. Learn something new every day. I love EVE, always a surprise somewhere.
If nothing else I learnt not to use EFT on a new ship type that I've never used before when tired
___
My views may not represent those of my corporation or alliance, which is why I never get invited to those diplomatic parties... |
Valan
The Fated
Imperial Republic Of the North
|
Posted - 2008.06.27 09:06:00 -
[145]
Beware of using EFT values they're meaningless when in battle.
A Torp Raven or Blaster Rokh may have slightly higher damage than a Blasterthron but the armor tank is far superior. Trying to take down a well tanked Hyperion takes a scary amount of time.
I would also take a Brutix or Harbinger over a Drake. Putting HAMs on a Drake is fine apart from its speed to get in range.
As far as EW goes if a Faclon misses a cycle or its jamming every sniper one volley and its gone. After 1 minute into a battle there shouldn't be any Falcons left.
But if you have these ships in a fleet and use them well and the opposing fleet is clueless you'll win.
Sounds to me as the FW fleets haven't reached the expertise and discipline required as yet to be effective. Won't be easy either as its all voluntary and you're stuck with who turns up. The problem is a Caldari ships won't suffer from poor discipline and tactics as the other races. Which lets face it that is why this post is here, to tighten up Caldari fleet tactics.
/start sig
I love old characters that post 'I've beeen playing the game four years' when I know their account has been sold on.
/end sig |
van Uber
Swedish Aerospace Inc
Firmus Ixion
|
Posted - 2008.06.27 11:57:00 -
[146]
Originally by: Valan
A Torp Raven or Blaster Rokh may have slightly higher damage than a Blasterthron but the armor tank is far superior. Trying to take down a well tanked Hyperion takes a scary amount of time.
I do not dispute your comment about EFT, one should be careful with the numbers and just have them as a guide. But, I'd really like to point out that a BlasterRokh will probably never outdamage a Blaster fitted Megathron, it will however, have far longer reach with its weapons (17km optimal +16km falloff with Null). Also if both ships have only a HP-buffer, the Rokh will have far more EHP than a Mega, due to its native resistances.
This does not mean I think that the Rokh is superior to the Mega, just that it has some special advantages worth mentioning.
|
AltyNr1
|
Posted - 2008.06.27 12:19:00 -
[147]
Originally by: Kelli Flay
4) I called that other poster an "idiot" yesterday. Guess who the idiot is today? You make him/her seem like a rocket surgeon.
bwahahahaha. look how stupid you are.
|
Calla Vee
|
Posted - 2008.06.27 13:51:00 -
[148]
To the OP -
This is a pretty interesting thread but if you'll excuse my noobism (yes, I admit I'm pretty new so go ahead and flame away if this is a dumb question), but I always see advice from left and right on how to fit ships, but never the expected skill levels.
What kind of skill levels do your fleet orientations and builds expect?
|
James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
The Star Fraction
|
Posted - 2008.06.27 14:31:00 -
[149]
Originally by: Calla Vee
To the OP -
This is a pretty interesting thread but if you'll excuse my noobism (yes, I admit I'm pretty new so go ahead and flame away if this is a dumb question), but I always see advice from left and right on how to fit ships, but never the expected skill levels.
What kind of skill levels do your fleet orientations and builds expect?
Hmm. Interesting question.
When I set up a ship, I assume maxed skills and 'all T2'. I feel this gives a meaningful objective point.
T1 and lower skills will typically also fit just fine.
High skills and T2 do give a meaningful advantage - last I checked a 'max skill' pilot did twice the damage of a 'min skill' pilot, with a given weapon system, for example.
But at the same time, I feel it's an important component of fleet design that you not be relying on everyone having max skills - because they don't.
There's a _few_ things that you just can't do without T2. Interdictors, and Covert Ops being major examples. Most of the rest, high skills just increases how effective you are, not how well a given tactic will work.
The stated list I gave specified Ravens, Blackbirds and Raptors - raptors are where I feel T2 is important, because they have 3 mid slots, and are significantly faster than a Condor. Vigils or Rifters would do the job just fine though, it was just I wanted to go all Caldari.
If you were to use Falcons/Rooks, and All T2 fitted Ravens (or Golems for that matter) you'd have a more effective, but significantly more expensive fleet.
But generally speaking, T2 is desirable, something to aim for, not mandatory. Undocking in a T2 fitted Falcon the first few times you PvP is a really good way to waste a lot of isks in a hurry. So do it in a T1/named fitted blackbird, practice a few times, expect to lose it, and once you feel confident in the style of flying, consider upgrading.
Bottom line is T2 makes you more effective at a given role, so maybe you can have less pilots covering that role. But it doesn't create new roles, and it doesn't cover over the need to have that role in your fleet.
--
Crane needs more grid
249km locking? |
James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
The Star Fraction
|
Posted - 2008.06.27 14:42:00 -
[150]
Originally by: van Uber
Originally by: Valan
A Torp Raven or Blaster Rokh may have slightly higher damage than a Blasterthron but the armor tank is far superior. Trying to take down a well tanked Hyperion takes a scary amount of time.
I do not dispute your comment about EFT, one should be careful with the numbers and just have them as a guide. But, I'd really like to point out that a BlasterRokh will probably never outdamage a Blaster fitted Megathron, it will however, have far longer reach with its weapons (17km optimal +16km falloff with Null). Also if both ships have only a HP-buffer, the Rokh will have far more EHP than a Mega, due to its native resistances.
This does not mean I think that the Rokh is superior to the Mega, just that it has some special advantages worth mentioning.
EFT is a tool, and a useful one. There's a measure of EFT warrior hate on the forums, because of the number of times someone points out how awesome an officer fitted state raven is.
It's a tool, like any other. You have to be careful in how you compare one thing to another - missiles are quite a good example - they do a higher proportion of their DPS in most fights, than turrets will.
Some of them have massively longer ranges too. So just looking at numbers and declaring one good, one bad is making an error - there's a complicated chain of ship + range + engagement envelope + versatility that go a long way to skew the 'this vs. that' comparison.
Missiles are a great example - HAMs on a Drake will hit another BC within a 20km (ish) sphere, and do _most_ of their damage.
A blaster BC will have to get into blaster range and may have trouble tracking. So whilst 'paper DPS' the Brutix does significantly better than the Drake, in a 'real' fight, where you've both jumped into a gate, the Drake will start doing damage immediately, amd will contine doing so all through the fight. The Brutix will have to burn into 'face hacking' range before it can start. DPS higher, but damage dealt over a fight might well be lower as a result.
Things like that, that EFT, or just working out fits by hand just don't really show you.
--
Crane needs more grid
249km locking? |
|
|
Acama Asante
Amarr
Love and Thunder
|
Posted - 2008.06.27 15:29:00 -
[151]
Originally by: van Uber
Drake Setup
This is a magnificent setup and more people should use it. (No, wait, they shouldn't, please keep coming in webrange of my drake/seeing it as an easy target)
You can hit out to your lockrange with javelins, and you can fit full tackle. You can't really damage nanoships much if they have mwd on, but the moment they turn it off you will start to deal some serious pain.
Its also completely hilarious to outdamage bigger ships/gallente/anything not a drake on killmails, I have a mega mail I'm pretty fond of when I did twice the damage of a nanotar...
|
|
|
| |
|
| Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 :: [one page] |